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JoelH
August 20th, 2008, 05:24 PM
There is indeed parallels and causal relationships between existentialism-influenced theology of Karl Barth and postmodern theology from Brian McLaren. But they are basically distinct from each other. I know a few non-Communist Chinese seminaries that proclaim evangelicalism with existentialist influenced professors, and they are powerless to refute deconstruction theology from postmodernism.

Even Mark Driscoll is influenced by postmodernism, despite his own claim of holding doctrinal orthodoxy, in the sense that he prefers "conversations" rather than "teaching" - this stems from postmodernism's denounciation of any authority (other than who who proclaim postmodern axioms). In addition, the "act" emphasis also has deep postmodern roots that words have no meaning - this I suspect is taken from existentialism and Karl Barth.

So when you try to fight one form of humanism (postmodernism) but your own worldview is already compromised by another form (existentialism), you will either be powerless to stop it, or become co-opted.

(PS: there are signs that the Emerging, if not the Emergent Church, is starting to make a rumble in the Asian church scene. Already there are undercurrents similar to American "non-ethnic" churches around 1999/2000, with Rick Warren and Bill Hybels showing a little bit of influences, and it is only a matter of time before the latest fads explodes in Asia. A few of the most "radical" preachers are starting to read Mark Driscoll and Doug Pagitt and Kimball.

I would be interested to see how the Mark Driscoll type of contextualization will fare when the surrounding secular culture is deeply conservative Confucianism, which makes David W. Cloud look like a progressive rock-and-roller. One famous episode was in `995 when the Hong Kong Obscene Articles Tribunal famously classified a newspaper picture of Michelangelo's statue of David as indecent.)

OnceWasLost
August 27th, 2008, 10:37 AM
bell has a number of people he recommends in VE

Here is one of them anne lamott

http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?p=85&amp%3bmore=1&amp%3bc=1



According to Christianity Today, author Anne Lamott is a "funny, nutty, fast-talking, born-again author." ChristianBook.com would probably consider Lamott a "born-again Christian" as well as they carry two of her books. Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale carries one of Lamott's books in their online bookstore, and Lamott wrote the foreword for Zondervan author, Mark Yaconelli's new book, Contemplative Youth Ministry. She has been a speaker at places like Baylor University and Calvin College, and World Magazine says "Anne Lamott has become a favorite of many Christian college students."

In spite of Lamott's acceptance by Christendom, her spiritual sympathies seem to lie in two camps: Christian and New Age. In the recent release of New Age leader Marianne Williamson's book, The Gift of Change (new edition), Lamott endorses the book. On the front cover, Lamott says, "[Williamson's] voice is strong medicine for our woundedness, warmth, insistence, good humor, and a little light to see by." But Williamson's medicine is a strong dose of A Course in Miracles, a thousand-plus-page channeled work (by spirit guides), whom Williamson brought to fame with the help of Oprah. According to Ingrid Schlueter, "Williamson's book, A Return to Love: Reflections on a Course in Miracles, was a runaway best seller and resulted in a revival of interest in the occult teachings of A Course in Miracles. One of the famous lines of the Course in Miracles goes this way, 'Don't make the pathetic error of clinging to the old rugged cross...'" It is a serious contradition of the most tragic terms for Lamott to promote a book by Williamson who speaks this way about the Cross of Jesus Christ.



It's at this point in the conversation that I begin to wonder if she's a universalist. Later, I follow up in an e-mail message: "Do you think that people from other faiths who don't believe in Jesus are God's children and will go to heaven?"

"Yes," she writes back. "I think Jesus is divine love manifest on earth, as it comes through the community of Christians." :shocked He's like the "beautiful Jewish uncle" who says, "Well, I can show you the way."

"Only Jesus has come to me, and I experience God's love in an immediate and personal way through his companionship," (not the Cross) :scratch she says. Those in other countries and cultures "feel Divine Love come to them through more local teachings, through other expressions of that love."




I am still looking through the other names he mentions. bell is out of his mind and not teaching a saving Gospel, nor are many of those he promotes. :tsk

billiefan2000
September 6th, 2008, 02:21 PM
D.A. CARSON ON ROB BELL
By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Sep 5, 2008 in Rob Bell

Apprising Ministries brings to your attention the link to an audio clip from a sermon by D.A. Carson called “Keeping Up With The Conversation” posted over at Reformation Underway.

In it Dr. Carson shares his educated view concerning popular Emergent Church pastor and emerging icon Rob Bell, where he says—among other things—that many people read Bell “in the best possible light because they’re bringing their Christian culture with them.”

Then using the topic of forgiveness as an illustration, Carson hits the eternally deadly spiritual problem with Bell’s Emerging Church pseudo-Christian message dead on target:

In other words, he shows a little clip on one of his Nooma videos—on forgiveness, let’s say—that would be completely gospel-free to anybody who is Biblically illiterate.

But if you bring in your Christian assumptions on what forgiveness looks like—because you know what Christ was doing on the Cross—and you’re making the right confessions already, you read your Christian assumptions into that video and you won’t see just how empty it is of real substance because you brought all of your Christian catechism with you. (Online source)

You can hear all of what Dr. D.A. Carson says in the short clip here.

http://reformationunderway.com/index.php/site/comments/da-carson-on-rob-bell/



http://apprising.org/2008/09/da-carson-on-rob-bell/

5 solas
September 6th, 2008, 06:40 PM
Billie,
Verey good clip. Thanks

billiefan2000
September 7th, 2008, 03:05 PM
Billie,
Verey good clip. Thanks

youre welcome 5 solas

Forgiven13
September 10th, 2008, 04:59 AM
Okay this whole thing just confused me. Can someone dumb this down for me?

I'm curious about this guy because I am in a small group at my church that is going to start doing the NOOMA video series by this guy. I know that many studies in my church are doing things like Rick Warren and Beth Moore and I've been staying away from those things . . . Do I need to stay away from the NOOMA video series?

I got real confused when reading this . . .

Angie

momof6
September 10th, 2008, 05:18 AM
OK simple here. YES you need to stay away for the NOOMA series. Rob Bell is among of the most confusing when it comes to false teachers. The NOOMA videos are cleaver, amusing, and thought provoking. But bottom line, Bell does not believe the Bible is the Word of God. It is simply an old book with some intersting guidelines for our lives. It is a mysitcal book that can mean whatever you want or need it to mean.

Forgiven13
September 10th, 2008, 05:54 AM
How in the world do people like Rob Bell get Evangelical followers. I'm very scared now and I'm freaking out . . . I was overlooking the Rick Warren and Beth Moore stuff at my church but now I'm really freaking out. I can't find a Bible studay at my church that I can attend, it seems. I'm thinking of having a meeting with my pastor because I'm very concerned.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can go about confronting this issue in my church?

We're a Bible believing church, though I'm sure some on here would consider us a cult . . . Assemblies of God. It just seems that everything I read about Rob Bell now (did a search on the internet) goes against what I have always been taught growing up in the Assemblies of God . . . I've been praying all morning and I am in tears. :(

Angie

momof6
September 10th, 2008, 11:31 AM
Be sure of this, you are not the only one weeping over the condition of the 'church' today. I have tried to shine the light on this issue many times and in many differing ways at my church, nothing changes though. Jesus said, let him who has ears to hear let him hear. There is a famine of the hearing of the word of God today just as God said there would be.

Lift up your head for your redemption draws near!!!!!!

Forgiven13
September 11th, 2008, 04:43 AM
momof6 - You say that you have tried many times to shed light on this issue in your church. So, I take it you have chosen to stay . . . I'm not sure what to do. If I stay, how do I make sure I don't fall down the wrong path. If they won't listen to me, will they start to treat me different? Have your pastors started to treat you at all any differently?

thanks!
Angie