What, exactly, is a True Christian?

[Stinker]

Hi Doxiemom! I can really identify with your frustration. TOO, too many voices out there all with their own brand of theology. I went through shear agony over this several years back. Seems like you have to be a Bible scholar to be able to figure all the different doctrines out! And what happens to the not-so-smart, or those who cannot read very well? Are they left out? How do they find a church. How do illiterate people in other parts of the world find a church? Aren't these the very people for whom Christ died?

These are monumental questions! I won't share my story here because it is a pro-Catholic story, and I don't think my testimony would be allowed or appreciated. Suffice it to say, I just could not and still do not believe that Christ intended his people to have to cypher through chaos to find a church. And yet we are commanded to church, the question is which one? I found through historical "evidence" and mounds and mounds of it, that that Church is the Catholic Church. Now, others here will disagree, and that there is their choice, but there is no evidence whatsoever from an "evidentiary" standpoint that she is not who she says she is.

Peace to you Doxiemom, and may the Lord shine His light on your pathway, and plant your feet on a sure foundation.

Hope

You forgot to tell them about the Catholic belief that "anyone who does not accept the CATHOLIC church..as being the ONLY true church...is destined for hell.

There is great error in that.

[Jesse]

The salvation message does not need man's interpretation.

I agree. And interpretations belong to God (Genesis 40:8). I have written on that subject in my article titled Philosophy vs. Christ. (http://members.tripod.com/jdlarsenmn/philosophyvschrist.htm)

[Biblenuggetlady]

I agree. And interpretations belong to God (Genesis 40:8). I have written on that subject in my article titled Philosophy vs. Christ. (http://members.tripod.com/jdlarsenmn/philosophyvschrist.htm)

I like your second article, Closing Our Minds Through Openness. :thumb

For those interested, it's the same link, 2nd article.

[Hope]

The Church is the body of believers who have accepted salvation, no matter what they call themselves.

Then, if what you say is true, it shouldn't matter what church you go to, whether dispensational, whether pentecostal, calvinist or arminian, or whether OSAS, etc. etc.. All that matters is the "salvation" message you say. And yet, as we see by this thread, there are many different views on just what THAT means.

And at any rate, it does matter. It matters to all of us here, or we wouldn't be here discussing it.

If one is firmly calvinistic in their theology, but over the course of their life becomes armininian, what then must they do? Leave, of course, and find a church that teaches the Bible truth, ripping apart relationships that have been formed, tearing apart the fabric of the church in which they have spent years investing their lives. It is hurtful and painful to the individual and the family of believers they leave behind as they pursue more biblical study. This is what happens, right or wrong, and it scars the body of Christ.

Hope

Stinker, the Church does not state that all who do not accept the RCC is destined for hell. Surely you know that by now. I would never tell someone that if they "don't believe RCC's claims," they are going to hell, I never have said that, and the Church does NOT say that. So if I did as you suggest, I would be lying and willfully misrepresenting the facts.

[Stinker]

Then, if what you say is true, it shouldn't matter what church you go to, whether dispensational, whether pentecostal, calvinist or arminian, or whether OSAS, etc. etc.. All that matters is the "salvation" message you say. And yet, as we see by this thread, there are many different views on just what THAT means.

And at any rate, it does matter. It matters to all of us here, or we wouldn't be here discussing it.

If one is firmly calvinistic in their theology, but over the course of their life becomes armininian, what then must they do? Leave, of course, and find a church that teaches the Bible truth, ripping apart relationships that have been formed, tearing apart the fabric of the church in which they have spent years investing their lives. It is hurtful and painful to the individual and the family of believers they leave behind as they pursue more biblical study. This is what happens, right or wrong, and it scars the body of Christ.

Hope

Stinker, the Church does not state that all who do not accept the RCC is destined for hell. Surely you know that by now. I would never tell someone that if they "don't believe RCC's claims," they are going to hell, I never have said that, and the Church does NOT say that. So if I did as you suggest, I would be lying and willfully misrepresenting the facts.

Boy, That would be great news. But from what I understand, the doctorine of the Catholic Church points to this: If you where ever told and recieved the information, that there is one true church(the Catholic Church) and yet you still refuse to accept this, you are in danger of hell.

I could be wrong,( I hope so)..

I really never say anything against Catholics or the church, UNTIL a topic comes up, that would point to a statement like" Truth can only be found in the Catholic Church and or The Catholic church is the true church" If that message comes through, I really have to point out that error.

[Buzzardhut]

Boy, That would be great news. But from what I understand, the doctorine of the Catholic Church points to this: If you where ever told and recieved the information, that there is one true church(the Catholic Church) and yet you still refuse to accept this, you are in danger of hell.

I could be wrong,( I hope so)..

I really never say anything against Catholics or the church, UNTIL a topic comes up, that would point to a statement like" Truth can only be found in the Catholic Church and or The Catholic church is the true church" If that message comes through, I really have to point out that error.
You are referring to the Council of Trent (http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/trent.htm)

[Hope]

Hi Buzz, the portion of the Trent to which I am sure you are referring was directed towards specific people at a specific time. Those people who first broke away from the Church are long gone. NOW, there are millions of Christians who scarely even know anything about the Great Divorce, so how could the anathamas spoken at Trent apply to them? Well, it does not. Trent does not apply to the invincably ignorant, or those who are innocently unaware. Trent DOES apply to those who willfully, knowingly, and with malice of forethought, leave the Church in abject rebellion, KNOWING fully well that she is who she says she is, and that Christ Himself instituted her.

Now, here is a fair question. Would ANY Christ loving person, who knew WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT, that she is that Church, leave her? I don't think so. I have yet to meet an ex-Catholic -- and I have known many -- who said to me: "I KNOW the Church is THE Church, that Church Christ formed and anointed, and that it is yet today that SAME Church, but I feel lead to leave her anyway."

Blessings!

Hope

[Buzzardhut]

Hi Buzz, the portion of the Trent to which I am sure you are referring was directed towards specific people at a specific time. Those people who first broke away from the Church are long gone. NOW, there are millions of Christians who scarely even know anything about the Great Divorce, so how could the anathamas spoken at Trent apply to them? Well, it does not. Trent does not apply to the invincably ignorant, or those who are innocently unaware. Trent DOES apply to those who willfully, knowingly, and with malice of forethought, leave the Church in abject rebellion, KNOWING fully well that she is who she says she is, and that Christ Himself instituted her.

Now, here is a fair question. Would ANY Christ loving person, who knew WITHOUT A REASONABLE DOUBT, that she is that Church, leave her? I don't think so. I have yet to meet an ex-Catholic -- and I have known many -- who said to me: "I KNOW the Church is THE Church, that Church Christ formed and anointed, and that it is yet today that SAME Church, but I feel lead to leave her anyway."

Blessings!

Hope
Trent is still in effect today.
It has not been recanted.

[Buzzardhut]

I had to add this in, since it looks like its turning into a "Catholic" thread once again.
True
Back to topic!

[Sing4Him]

yes, please...:doh