Pope says we need to listen to the voice of the earth

[ATYCLB]

ACTCLB, I think what Joe means is that if you say Muslims don't worship the same God as do we because they reject the Son, then you would also have to say Jews don't worship the same God either because they also reject the Trinity as well.I understand what he's saying . . . and, no, we don't have to say that the Jews
don't worship the same God.

That the Jews don't see God repeatedly pointing to His Son in Scripture doesn't mean
that He doesn't. Their God is still our God. Although they may deny His Son, their
texts don't.

Allah, Muhammed, Islam . . . repeatedly deny the Son throughout the Koran.

There's a huge difference here.

We also see the strife of thousands of years played out before our very eyes and the sibling rivalry continues to this very day.Agreed.

Which side wins? And why?

[jba4241]

I understand what he's saying . . . and, no, we don't have to say that the Jews
don't worship the same God.

That the Jews don't see God repeatedly pointing to His Son in Scripture doesn't mean that He doesn't. Their God is still our God. Although they may deny His Son, their texts don't.But just because the Muslim texts are blatantly wrong, as they were written by men and are not the inspired Word of God, doesn't mean they worship a different God. They are describing God in error. Like the Jews describe God in error when they deny the Trinity.

But let me reiterate. I'm no defender of Islam. Truly, I wish we would ban the religion in this country completely. But I can't see your logic here saying it's okay for the Jews to deny the Son, yet be worshipping the same God, and not give that same reasoning to Muslims. Both groups worship God in error by denying His Son.

I guess it may not even matter in this discussion. Let me ask yo uthis, ATYCLB. Are Jews (some Jews, all Jews, any Jewish person who has not accepted Christ) going to heaven? And if they are not, what an oxymoron calling a Jew a choson person (singular of chosen people.) Chosen for what? Hell???

Joe

[funmudder]

Joe

You don't see the difference in the Jews, who see our Old Testament, their Torah, as the word of God

and the book that took bits and pieces of the Torah and twisted it beyond all recognition to teach a God that demands a slave relationship where the only way to guarantee a place in heaven is to kill Allah's enemies? The muslim god is a god of death, servitude and destruction.

Why do you think former Muslims who are now freed in Christ speak out so loudly against the god in the Koran?

Really good book and witnessing tool by Samy Tanagho found here (http://www.amazon.com/Glad-News-Loves-Muslim-Friend/dp/188454391X).
Samy (http://muslimministry.com/website/frame.html) came to our church and spoke, really opened our eyes to some misinformation on muslims and what they believe, and why they don't condemn the 'extremists' who terrorize.

[jba4241]

Joe

You don't see the difference in the Jews, who see our Old Testament, their Torah, as the word of God

and the book that took bits and pieces of the Torah and twisted it beyond all recognition to teach a God that demands a slave relationship where the only way to guarantee a place in heaven is to kill Allah's enemies? The muslim god is a god of death, servitude and destruction.

Why do you think former Muslims who are now freed in Christ speak out so loudly against the god in the Koran?

Really good book and witnessing tool by Samy Tanagho found here (http://www.amazon.com/Glad-News-Loves-Muslim-Friend/dp/188454391X).Samy (http://muslimministry.com/website/frame.html) came to our church and spoke, really opened our eyes to some misinformation on muslims and what they believe, and why they don't condemn the 'extremists' who terrorize.funmudder, I agree they are seriously in error. Again, I agree they are blatantly wrong in THEIR conception of God. But it's their error. God isn't who He is because of how you view Him! He is and always has been. He has never changed. You imply in your post -- as others do -- that who God is is dependent on how our feeble minds grasp Him. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Yes, they took bits out of the Bible and twisted it, no doubt. So do many many many many Christians do the same thing. We argue about that right here at Rapture Ready. But most people would acknowledge we're all worshipping the same God. There are some people on here who accuse me of not worshipping the same God because I'm Catholic. They tend to be the extremists. But most other non-Catholics would say, wow, Joe, you have a twisted notion of the truth, but you do worship the same God.

I feel the need to reiterate. I am no defender of Islam. I wish that religion would go quietly into the night..........

Joe

[tom_roberts]

He seems in complete denial that the earth is failing

He has no clue it would seem as to the end of the age of men

and the new heavens and the new earth

all creation is groaning as the time of our Lord approaches

I wonder what earth will look like without oceans:)

[mercyandgrace]

Yes, they took bits out of the Bible and twisted it, no doubt. So do many many many many Christians do the same thing. We argue about that right here at Rapture Ready. But most people would acknowledge we're all worshipping the same God. There are some people on here who accuse me of not worshipping the same God because I'm Catholic. They tend to be the extremists. But most other non-Catholics would say, wow, Joe, you have a twisted notion of the truth, but you do worship the same God.

Joe

No, Joe. Christians and Jews do not worship the muslims' allah. There is no confusion here.

Allah is a counterfeit to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Allah is the muslim man-made version. Muslim's have taken a mad-man's writings and formed a counterfeit bible called "the koran".

There is no similarity between the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and what the muslim's call allah.

The muslim religion is a cult. Therefore, we do not worship the same God.

[ATYCLB]

But just because the Muslim texts are blatantly wrong, as they were written by men and are not the inspired Word of God, doesn't mean they worship a different God.They TELL us they worship a different god.

Joe, if it's just a wrong image of Him and it is the same God, will you proclaim "Allah Akbar"
right now on this board?

If not, why?

[jba4241]

They TELL us they worship a different god.

Joe, if it's just a wrong image of Him and it is the same God, will you proclaim "Allah Akbar"
right now on this board?

If not, why?Because, ATYCLB, I DON'T have a wrong image of Him. Therefore, I'm going to worship in the way that I know He should be worshipped, which is through Jesus Christ, Our Lord. There would be no reason for me to proclaim "Allah Akbar."

By the way, ATYCLB, you haven't answered my question yet either, and you seem to have a handle on these two things: Are Jews (some Jews, all Jews, any Jewish person who has not accepted Christ) going to heaven? And if they are not, what an oxymoron calling a Jew a choson person (singular of chosen people.) Chosen for what? Hell???

Joe

[ATYCLB]

Because, ATYCLB, I DON'T have a wrong image of Him. Therefore, I'm going to worship in the way that I know He should be worshipped, which is through Jesus Christ, Our Lord. There would be no reason for me to proclaim "Allah Akbar."If God and Allah are truly the same, as you and your church claim, you shouldn't have
any problem at all proclaiming "Allah Akbar".

One could easily say that the Israelites "described" God in error when they had Aaron
make the molten calf and embraced it as the god of Israel.

There's clear evidence of how their "wrong image of Him" ended up:

"So the Lord plagued the people because of what they did with the calf which Aaron made."
Exodus 32:35


By the way, ATYCLB, you haven't answered my question yet either,

My apologies, Joe. I've only been home for about an hour after a fourteen plus hour workday.
I'll try to be more considerate in the future.


Are Jews (some Jews, all Jews, any Jewish person who has not accepted Christ) going to heaven?

Some Jews will go to heaven.

All Jews will not.

Any Jewish person who has not accepted Christ will not.


And if they are not, what an oxymoron calling a Jew a choson person (singular of chosen people.) Chosen for what? Hell???This should cover everything in your question:

"For you are a holy people to the Lord your God; the Lord your God has chosen you to be a people for Himself,
a special treasure above all the peoples on the face of the earth. The Lord did not set His love on you nor choose
you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; but because
the Lord loves you, and because He would keep the oath which He swore to your fathers, the Lord has brought
you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you from the house of bondage, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
Therefore know that the Lord your God, He is God, the faithful God who keeps covenant and mercy for a thousand
generations with those who love Him and keep His commandments; and He repays those who hate Him to their face,
to destroy them. He will not be slack with him who hates Him; He will repay him to his face."
Deuteronomy 7:6 - 10

[funmudder]

funmudder, I agree they are seriously in error. Again, I agree they are blatantly wrong in THEIR conception of God. But it's their error. God isn't who He is because of how you view Him! He is and always has been. He has never changed. You imply in your post -- as others do -- that who God is is dependent on how our feeble minds grasp Him. Nothing could be further from the truth.

That is scripturally unsound, because scripture itself tells us who God is, how He wants us to worship and see Him. How my mind perceives God is irrelevant against what He told us in His word. His Word is truth.

He has never changed. He is today who He was yesterday and will still be tomorrow. That is the point. They are not worshiping the God of the Bible, they are worshiping Baal, or at least the very characteristics and qualities described of Baal in the Bible.

Just calling something God does not mean that they are looking to the one true God, just with a slightly different interpretation. That is the thinking behind ecuminicalism=one world religion, you know, the one the antichrist is supposed to implement during the tribulation?

satan wants to be God, wants to replace God. satan wants people to believe he is actually God. This is the essence behind everything the world is marching towards. Satan is the root of Allah worship and what he demands of the muslims.

Two wrongs do not make a right. Taking twisted lies with specks of truth and gluing them together does not make a whole truth.
Just because the Koran has a resemblance of the truth, does not mean it reflects the real truth of God. Especially when it teaches lies about the Creator.

I find it interesting that it's the former muslims shouting the loudest about The One true God not being the God of the muslims....and the catholic church shouting that they are indeed the same. Interesting indeed.