John Piper

[Saved by Grace_06]

John Piper on the Prosperity Gospel


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukcV-xtU3hc

Can we get together and shut down Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, Olsteen, and the rest of the prosperity "gospel" preachers?

[HeIsEnough]

I disagree with his viewpoint as well.

For one, the land is only the right to the Jews (however he wants to describe them, unbelieving or not), not any other. Therefore, a two state solution is wrong from the start, since it involves a non Jewish party. If Piper desires, he can find a group of Messianic Jews in Israel, and confer the land to them. Beyond it all, like it or not, I would think a 'Palestinian' christian should not have a problem recognizing Israels right to the land. Why would any "brand" of christian have a problem that the land be called Israel?

[matheteou]

John Piper is covenant in eschatology and therefore the Church has replaced Israel.

I thought that was common knowledge.

[LaMontre]

I don't disagree with him, but the fact is, they are in the land in preparation for the 70th week and the anti-christ.

The temple will be rebuilt soon. And as a result, the stage will be set for the anti-christ, and many of them will accept him as Messiah, just as Jesus predicted they would.

Joh 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.

So their presence in the land is not really a reason to rejoice over Israel. It is likely in fulfillment of this scripture.

Eze 37:4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the LORD.
Eze 37:5 Thus saith the Lord GOD unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:
Eze 37:6 And I will lay sinews upon you, and will bring up flesh upon you, and cover you with skin, and put breath in you, and ye shall live; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
Eze 37:7 So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone.
Eze 37:8 And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them.

When Christ returns, the breath will enter them. Until then, only those who accept Jesus as Messiah are the true heirs.

Their lack of being blessed by God in the land is evidenced by the total lack of peace which Israel has had since returning. Remember, asking for political peace in Israel at this point, is asking for the anti-christ, because he will bring it, and destroy many by it.

The true peace of Israel will not happen apart from the return of Jesus Christ.

[Mitsy]

John Piper is covenant in eschatology and therefore the Church has replaced Israel.

I thought that was common knowledge.


Is that the same as Replacement Theology? I'm not too good on these terms.

Obviously John Piper sees no Divine Reason for Israel to be in the Land.

[HeIsEnough]

Their lack of being blessed by God in the land is evidenced by the total lack of peace which Israel has had since returning. Remember, asking for political peace in Israel at this point, is asking for the anti-christ, because he will bring it, and destroy many by it.


I dunno LaMontre. It is very easy to conclude the Lord had also had enough of the Hitlers et al. of the world trying to murder all Jews, and gave them the land back to fulfill the promises. That He worked through the UN to achieve this is not new, He worked through Israels captures before in this regard. I've always concluded that praying for the peace of Israel is synonymous with praying for their acceptance of the gospel, or at the least God's favor upon Israel. They seem the same to me, but I'll leave that up to God to determine.

[LaMontre]

I dunno LaMontre. It is very easy to conclude the Lord had also had enough of the Hitlers et al. of the world trying to murder all Jews, and gave them the land back to fulfill the promises.

I have no doubt he is tired of anti-semitism. But fulfilling the promises to an unbelieving Israel would violate every precedent set in the OT. No, the true fulfillment will come in the MK, to the believing remnant.

Mat 8:11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven.


That He worked through the UN to achieve this is not new, He worked through Israels captures before in this regard. I've always concluded that praying for the peace of Israel is synonymous with praying for their acceptance of the gospel, or at the least God's favor upon Israel. They seem the same to me, but I'll leave that up to God to determine.

That is my point as well. Praying for "political" peace is a wasted prayer IMO. Although it is coming, it will not occur prior to the rise of anti-christ, and as I say:

Dan 8:25 And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without hand.

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

[HeIsEnough]

I have no doubt he is tired of anti-semitism. But fulfilling the promises to an unbelieving Israel would violate every precedent set in the OT. No, the true fulfillment will come in the MK, to the believing remnant.


I didn't mean that it would fulfill them, that it will (did) set up for the fulfillment. In that regard, I consider it a very good thing. I would think you would recognize that.

However, I see no reason God would at present show more favor to Jordan, Syria or Egypt then He would to Israel in its present state. I see enough reason for Him to be on Israel's side at the moment, considering if His return is very close, the remnant alive right now in Israel will be heirs to the promise.

I still have yet to find any reason for sympathy towards the plight of those seeking their own homeland out of Israels borders, politically or otherwise. Their claim is somewhat similar to Mexico's on Texas, and I don't see anyone giving in to that one any time soon.

[LaMontre]

I didn't mean that it would fulfill them, that it will (did) set up for the fulfillment. In that regard, I consider it a very good thing. I would think you would recognize that.

Yes, as I say, they are there in partial fulfillment of Eze 37. So they are there by divine right either way you want to look at this, and there are SO many ways to see it. I don't agree with everything this author believes, as I think he is a replacement theologian, and I don't see that extreme in scripture, but I think that allot of what leads people to that extreme, IS in the scripture. So I understand it, but I think it results from an unwillingness to see the complexity of the issue. It certainly isn't "black and white".


However, I see no reason God would at present show more favor to Jordan, Syria or Egypt then He would to Israel in its present state. I see enough reason for Him to be on Israel's side at the moment, considering if His return is very close, the remnant alive right now in Israel will be heirs to the promise.

Yes, we can certainly discern that the time is nearer everyday. And your right, I think God has always preserved Israel throughout the millenia. And he has them right where he wants them for "such a time as this", and he will preserve them there, just as he has always preserved them.

But I think we can say with certainty that, politically, things are going to get worse before they get better in Israel.


I still have yet to find any reason for sympathy towards the plight of those seeking their own homeland out of Israels borders, politically or otherwise. Their claim is somewhat similar to Mexico's on Texas, and I don't see anyone giving in to that one any time soon.

Oh, believe me, I love the Israeli people. As a Christian with Jesus dwelling in us, we have little choice but to love people. I want to see them living in peace, if for no other reason, I believe that peace there, is the key to peace in the world. I have children, and would love to see peace in the world. But I am also too aware of what scripture says is coming to be all that optimistic about it. I believe that the U.S. policy of support is the right thing to do in any case. It seems obvious to me that God has used America to defend Israels right to exist, (and to exist in that land), for a purpose. And we know what that purpose is, because we have been given insight.

There are many in Israel who know as well. And I believe there will be peace in Jerusalem, but not this side of the MK.

[Mitsy]

John Piper says:-

The Arab roots and the Jewish roots in this land go back for thousands of years. Both lay claim to the land not merely because of historical presence, but also because of divine right. I won't try to lay out a detailed peace plan. But I will try to lay out some biblical truths that could guide all of us in thinking about peace and justice in that part of the world.

I read this last night and it disturbed me. Well this morning in Bible study I came across some enlightening scripture. We are studying the book of Nehemiah who goes back to Jerusalem to re-build it's walls after the exile to Babylon. We we looking at chapter 2. Nehemiah gets permission and support from King Artaxerxes to go and re-build Jerusalem's walls. When Nehemiah gets there he is met with opposition by non-Jewish officials (who no doubt are threatened by Jerusalem getting its walls re-built). The interesting thing is in the answer Nehemiah gives these men to their opposition.



NE 2:19 But when Sanballat the Horonite, Tobiah the Ammonite official and Geshem the Arab heard about it, they mocked and ridiculed us. "What is this you are doing?" they asked. "Are you rebelling against the king?"

NE 2:20 I{Nehemiah} answered them by saying, "The God of heaven will give us success. We his servants will start rebuilding, but as for you, you have no share in Jerusalem or any claim or historic right to it."

I knew there was a verse that said something along these lines but for the life of me I couldn't find it last night. Here we see the claim on Jerusalem by other nations is refuted by the Word of God. The Arabs and other non-Jewish nations do not have a share, claim or historic right to Jerusalem.

Here is a Biblical Truth John Piper and his replacement theologist freinds should take note of because it is serious business going against God's Word and promises to His people.