Knowledgeofgod (question about a story they wrote)

[SnowCone]

http://knowledgeofgod.wordpress.com/2007/05/29/american-idol/

I found this website the other day while surfing the web, some of what is said by the reporter doesn't make sense...

"Bible Jesus said that only those who do the will of His Father, keeping His commandments, will enter the kingdom of heaven. All others will be cast into hell, even those who called Him their Lord (see Matt. 7:13-27). Bible Jesus warned that the hateful, the lustful, the unforgiving, the selfish and greedy would not saved (Matt. 5:21-22, 27-30; 6:14-15, 19-24; 25:31-46)."

"By contrast, American Jesus doesn’t stress holiness nearly so much. He certainly never says that obedience is essential for one to gain eternal life. Those who believe that are legalists, he says. He is always stressing God’s grace, but it is a grace that overlooks and forgives yet doesn’t transform. American Jesus believes that faith without works can save and that there is an entire class of heaven-bound believers called “carnal Christians” who are indistinguishable from unsaved people."

...I always thought that The gift of Grace, God sending Christ Jesus to die for our sin was a gift? and that by taking this gift (which is said to be free from what I understand, it only requires that you believe he was crucified on the cross, died, paid for your sins and rose again so that we could be reconciled with God because we are sinful creatures who can't possibly live up to God's Holyness) all our sins, past present and future are washed away. But this web-page is saying some really odd things...and I don't get it.

Of course I know Paul told believers that because our sins have been washed away that doesn't give us a free license to sin (of course we are going to because we aren't perfect that only comes at the day of His return when believers are said to be raptured) But we should try our bested to resist and flee from sin and if we do to confess and restore our relationship with God.

There are other things in the web story thingy I don't get either... am I missing something? :candle

[Sing4Him]

http://www.shepherdserve.org/dmm/dmm_14.htm

Reviewing this. The link above is the main site.
From the site:
1. If the cross has truly captured our hearts, we live for a new purpose.

:scratch :scratch

Please let us look into this further..K?

[SnowCone]

http://www.shepherdserve.org/dmm/dmm_14.htm

Reviewing this. The link above is the main site.
From the site:


:scratch :scratch

Please let us look into this further..K?

I read the Link you gave (good link by the way, very informative, thank you for giving it to me)

But I don't seem to understand it's place with the link I have posted, what confuses me about the one I posted is in one is that is it seem cynical in nature but does have some good points in regards to certain topics about how the church has compromised it self to conform to the world and not to God.

The part that confuses me the most is

"American Jesus believes that faith without works can save and that there is an entire class of heaven-bound believers called “carnal Christians” who are indistinguishable from unsaved people."

Is the writer of this story saying that faith + works get someone saved? Or am I miss-entraprating this?

another part (which is the only other real confusing part in the story) is

Bible Jesus, not knowing the time of His return, told His followers that they might well need to run for the hills because of the great tribulation which would arise at the time that the antichrist would enter the Jerusalem temple. Some of them would be martyred. He promised that after cataclysmic events, He would “send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other” (Matt. 24:3-36).

American Jesus promises that all his own will be taken up to heaven before any tribulation begins, because surely God would not allow the people he loves to be so persecuted. (Those who believe in American Jesus often have little idea of how much persecution is being endured around the world by those who believe in Bible Jesus. Neither do they care.) American Jesus will return twice, and His second return will follow His first return by seven years. He forgot to tell his disciples about this.

From what I have read so far in the bible is that there are many tribulations that believers go through (not all but some do depending on where they are and such) These tribulations can infact get one killed hurt tortured and such, but I was under the belief that "The great tribulation" would be escaped by the church, those who have repented of their sins, asked for forgiveness and believe/had faith, that Jesus was the Son of God and that He did die for all sins and did rise from the grave setting free the captives held in "Abraham's bosom" that one day (unknown to us, but known to the Father God in heaven) that He would call His Church, His Bride, into the heavens and there we would be with Him always.

"for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that who ever so shall believe in Him shall not parish, but have everlasting life" John 3:16

Did I get anything wrong or am I just not reading something right (that happens to me sometimes...I find it rather funny that it usually helps to read things about 3 times through before I get anywhere.)

:hug

[Sing4Him]

The site I gave you is connected with the site you gave me! :wave

Looking into this more...

he seems to say ALL will be saved..:scratch

[SnowCone]

The site I gave you is connected with the site you gave me! :wave

Looking into this more...

he seems to say ALL will be saved..:scratch

...wait what...man I really need to re-read things more and ask for the Holy Spirits guiding. :doh

Where does the article say all will be saved? If I might ask?

[Jadiri]

The writer of this story is very slanted in saying there is a differene in the jesus known here and in america and other places ..

Faith + works wont get you in to Heaven How ever faith with out works is Dead ..
if you Believe in something have faith in it and yet dont follow , live Your faith what use is it ???

if one wakes every day with faith that they are alive and life is good and yet they lay in bed all day till The day is done and does nothing everyday what use was there faith ...

[Sing4Him]

am I reading this guy as hyper-armenian???

[JoelH]

I once conversed with a British nominal churchgoing type (he does not even borther going to chruch except for cultural reasons eg weddings, Christmas). He claims to me that Christianity teaches that each people follow the teachings of moral code and grow up in "moral standards" (which is suspiciously like the socialist talks you hear from American left-wingers/"liberals") and that the Bible teach of darkness-to-born-again is "American".

And he boasts he is an Anglican (if you count that as being baptized). I put Charles Spurgeon and Hudson Taylor's words to him and he had not responded.

But to the above post. I think he sounds like a Christian, but he is reading out of it a mind of modernist humanism and thus what he has prescribed is a lot of socialism through his chapters on money, which is not sound.

[Sing4Him]

I agree.. weird stuff..

[SnowCone]

I agree.. weird stuff..


http://www.shepherdserve.org/false_grace_gospel.htm (this was gotten from the bottom of the page that I first linked)

...now I'm really confused...I am not sure weather to believe this man and what he says or not...

I under stand that faith without works is dead but I also understand this that one time a friend asked me about the comming end of the age of grace, she was worried about the people, the Christians who were living ungodly lives, she asked me what would happen to them, and are they really saved, I thought about this and I pondered it, and I believe and have faith that God gave me this simple answer; that if you are truly his, and that in that moment that you believe that His son came to this earth and died for your sins that you were saved and even if you backslid away from him sliding into sin that he would drag you from that place you were in, back into His loving arms.

Romans 8:38-40 (King James Version)

38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am confident in this for this one reason, though my head says to me I am unsaved and unworthy of anything the God of heaven and earth has to give me, (of course I am unworthy for there is no righteous among any but Christ that is)

But when I was seven I asked the Lord into my heart and I truly believe He came though my faith was weak He came to me and offered me a shelter, though the years came and yes I lived a worldly life, and was very sinful and the Lord of Heaven and earth watched me.

I drove myself into a very bitter depression many things happened and my life was unpleasant to the point of suicide (of course I was to chicken to try it), but then one day while I was doing something rather sinful it just hit me like lightening; Why was I doing this? all the things and possessions in the world did not bring me joy, did not bring me true happiness, they only stuffed into me more unhappiness more bitterness and more self centeredness.

I was a hurt child, I had grown up most of my known life without a father, my parents were divorced for about 10 years of my life, and then he died in a car accident with both me and my brother in it, I was hurt I was angry, my mother wasn't there to comfort me; I was scared so I put the world in, in hopes that my fear, my loneliness and my lack of love would be filled, and God let me, only to show me later on through the Love and Prayer of others that He was there for me, and that he desired me; me a broken bitter person whos love had dried up long ago.

That all those days and all those nights filled with tears, bitter tears of remorse of loneliness He never EVER left me; and all He was doing was waiting for me to realize that He was the one who could fix me, the one who could love me, the one who could give me everlasting Joy in His Fellowship and Grace.

Of course this didn't happen overnight; and I'm still learning to humble my self before Him and sill trying to give up my pride of wining all arguments and just arguing in general, and I'm still trying to trust in Him more; its a slow and steady process one in which satan enjoys tormenting me in, but the Lord has delivered me. And is teaching me to love again.

Romans 12:3-4

For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.
4For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office:

My faith was small when I asked Him in to my heart to be my savior and to wash away my sins, and as I built upon that foundation of Christ false fake things of this world everything began to tumble down, The Lord had to redirect my path for I had wondered to the large road and away from the straight and narrow, and He also had to remove my addiction and self pitty, one was removed right away (all though still tempted by it I was, I did not desire it anymore) the other I'm still working on. :lol2



Philippians 1:6 (King James Version)
6Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:

I am confident in my self that this is true for all who believed even the backsliding Christians who live ungoldy worldly lives. For even God compensated for those who chose willingly not to advance His kingdom even though they are still His;

1 Corinthians 3:14-17 (King James Version)


4If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are
I believe that by obeying God, and seeking His will, and trying our best to show Him we are greatful by following His commandments and by thanking Him for the richness He has given us we can enjoy both a life on earth and in heaven (now I don't mean material wealth; but the joy that the Lord brings to those who walk with him, is that not the greatest wealth there is? Of course He does give to those who give with a greatful heart as well but the true reward is Him)

( I do apologizes if I am only running around in circles)

I guess I don't get where these guys are coming from is all. ^^; I see them saying that if one is a back slider than one isn't saved, I see that they teach many things.

I desire to know God, and to know His will for me, but when I see men with bible verses and they seem to interpret them as though two side of a very different coin, I do not desire to have my ears tickled with lies and decite.

But I do not desire, in the same breath, to be made to think that if I am not inconstant fear and threat from the lord that I am unsaved, for is not one of the fruits of the spirit Joy? So then why if one of those fruits is Joy that some teach that we should be in constant fear? Should we not confess our sins and pick ourselves up and walk with him again? Knowing that if we confess He is just to forgive and make it as though none ever happened? Does he not want us to revere him? For perfect love has no fear.

I think I may have hijacked my own thread :threadjack... for that I apologize, but I felt the need to explain where I was coming from so that maybe those reading and desiring to answer my question may do so from the understanding of what I'm trying to get at.

Thank you all much for you answers thus far. ^^; :hug

If anything i have said is contrary to the His word please correct me for I do not wish to disrespect His word anyway shape or form :candle