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Thread: Differences between mystical meditation, contemplative prayer, and Biblical Prayer *Merged*

  1. #161
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    there is another word out there now to add to the new age garb, it is panentheism, yes the "en" in the middle of pantheism.

  2. #162
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    Default Priscilla Shirer Promoting Contemplative/Centering Prayer

    PRISCILLA SHIRER PROMOTING CONTEMPLATIVE/CENTERING PRAYER
    By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Aug 28, 2010 in Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, Current Issues, Features, Southern Baptist Convention

    …they are full of things from the east… (Isaiah 2:6)

    Going Beyond Scripture Like Roman Catholics Mystics

    In Priscilla Shirer And Contemplative/Centering Prayer, which serves as the first part of this follow up article, Apprising Ministries reminded you that both Shirer and her good friend Beth Moore were part of the Be Still…And Know That I Am God DVD. I explained further that this Be Still project was openly advocating a form of meditation in an altered state of consciousness known as Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP).

    And this is easily corroborated, for example, from a pro-contemplative prayer article entitled “Be Still” Invites Viewers to Discover Contemplative Prayer, which was carried by the mainstream evangelical website Crosswalk.com. You also saw that Shirer’s ministry, Going Beyond Ministries (GBM), arose from what Shirer called her “inner revival,” which involved the Lord “speaking” to her:

    In her case, God was speaking to her about going to “the place of abundant living–an experiential relationship with God.” “He said: ‘Priscilla, you’ve been at this mountain long enough. There is a new place that I want to take you to,’” Shirer says. In light of God’s challenge, Shirer naturally desired to “go beyond” personally. (Online source)

    Like I’ve said before, as soon as you hear someone claiming to teach in the Name of Jesus Christ use the term “go beyond” your discernment radar needs to kick in. The key question to ask is: Go beyond, what? As I’ve pointed out previously, invariably where we’re headed is going beyond Scripture. Again, here’s the bottom line: In the Bible we know we hear God’s Voice; but as soon as we go beyond into “inner,” i.e highly subjective, experiences we then open a door that is leading so many today into such spiritual deception.

    I’ve already told you that this CCP—a transcendental meditation-lite lightly sprayed with Christian terminology—the very crown jewel of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), which itself is actually a romaticized version of the Counter Reformation [hello!] spirituality of apostate (at best) Roman Catholic mystics. It’s become the current fad now under the guise of so-called Spiritual Formation e.g. that taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster, along with his trusty spiritual twin Dallas Willard.

    Against this backdrop I now point you to the GBM blog and a July 23 entry “Submitted by Priscilla” called Wisbits, seen below via screen shot in case it suddenly vanishes:



    Shirer begins by telling us that she’s “anxious to connect you with some folks who I think you’ll be so blessed by.” And then she continues:

    Years ago, I got a chance to meet Jan Johnson albeit only by phone – and yet in the short time we spent talking, I was encouraged and redirected in so many ways. As a young woman trying to navigate the ins and outs of my relationship with the Lord, Ms. Jan spoke wisdom into my life that was extremely pivotal in my life – personally and in ministry.

    While I’ve not had the chance to meet her in person (I’m hoping to attend one of her conferences one day) I’m continually blessed by the word the Lord places on her heart every month through her “Wisbits” – articles she writes for anyone to subscribe to.
    (Online source)

    Hence the title of Shirer’s post. Before we go on, in Beth Moore And Lifeway (SBC) Head Deeper Still Into Deception I told you about the Deeper Still conferences of LifeWay, which is the publishing arm of the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC). Now consider the following from an article that originally appeared in Charisma Magazine, which is a leading voice within the charismatic movement, where we’re told by SBC Bible teacher Beth Moore:

    “[Priscilla] is quite possibly the most gifted communicator I have ever witnessed,” says consummate Bible teacher Beth Moore, who has ministered alongside Shirer and Kay Arthur at Deeper Still events for the last three years and has been on a ministry circuit for more than 15… (Online source)

    So we should take notice when this “most gifted communicator” Priscilla Shirer tells us above that “in the short time” she spent talking with Jan Johnson she was “redirected in so many ways”; and not only that, Shirer also shares how she’s “continually blessed by the word the Lord places on her heart.” Mighty impressive praise Shirer lavishes upon Johnson, whom she’s so “anxious to connect” with the women who follow her. But the question we need to ask is: Exactly who is this Jan Johnson that’s supposedly speaking such “wisdom into” Shirer’s life?

    Entering The Spiritual Twilight Zone In The Silence Of “Christian” Meditation

    As I originally showed you two years ago in Learn Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) The SBC Way With Baptist State Convention Of North Carolina And Spiritual Director Jan Johnson “spiritual director”/guru Jan Johnson tells us that she is, “a writer, speaker and spiritual director in southern California.”[1] And interestingly enough under “Teaching” at Johnson’s website we read:

    Teaching: lectio divina instructor for Dallas Willard’s Fuller Seminary class: Spirituality and Ministry; Senior Teaching Fellow, Renovaré Institute;… Education: BA, Christian education, Ozark Christian College {occ.edu}; journalism courses, UCLA; spirituality courses, Azusa Pacific University; graduate, Academy for Spiritual Formation {upperroom.org/academy/}; Spiritual Exercises of Ignatius Loyola 30-day Retreat, 2006; D.Min. Graduate Theological Foundation (Ignatian Spirituality & Spiritual Direction), 2006. (Online source)

    The leading online apologetics and discernment ministry Lighthouse Trails Research informs us that the “Upper Room is a religious organization that promotes Eastern style meditation and is the creator of the popular, meditation tool Walk to Emmaus”;[2] and you may recall that Ignatius of Loyola was the apostate (at best) founder of the militantly anti-Reformation pro-Roman Catholic Church spiritual Gestapo Unit known as the Jesuits. So quite obviously Johnson is well-trained in “Ignatian style meditation” in an altered state of consciousness; in other words, the Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP) I mentioned before, which forms the centerpiece of that spurious CSM perpetrated by the dubious duo of Foster and Willard. In reality however, it’s but a romanticized version of the putrid Pietism that first festered within the anti-biblical monastic traditions of the Roman Catholic Church.

    So, considering Johnson is “Senior Teaching Fellow” at Foster’s spiritual blackhole of Renovare, we’re not at all surprised that among her writings she lists Dallas Willard’s Study Guide to the Divine Conspiracy. And Johnson also recommends that:

    For more in-depth information and exercises, take a look at my book Savoring God’s Word, which explains both lectio divina and Ignatian style meditation in detail.[3]

    In my prior post concerning guru Johnson I told that in the November 2007 SLN of her SpiritLines Newsletters, then “Spiritual Formation Coach” for the Baptist State Convention of North Carolina (SBC) Dr. Wendy Edwards, teaches us about this so-called “Christian Meditation.” Under “Christian Meditation Helps” we find guru Edwards recommending Johnson’s book When The Soul Listens: Finding Rest And Direction In Contemplative Prayer (WtSL). Welcome to the whacked Wonderland of postmodern Humpty Dumpty language; click on that link and it’ll take you to the SBC publishing outlet Lifeway Christian Stores where members of the Southern Baptist Convention—ostensibly the largest Protestant denomination in the United States—may purchase this book teaching the main practice of the Counnter Reformation spirituality of apostate Roman Catholicism:


    (Online source)

    When The Soul Listens: Finding Rest And Direction In Contemplative Prayer (WtSL) by Jan Johnson happens to be part of the Spiritual Formation Line [read: contemplative spirituality] series of NavPress of The Navigators so it carries a General Introduction by—surprise—Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard. In WtSL guru Johnson gives us the following instruction about the transcendental meditation-lite of CCP:

    The two primary tools of the contemplative way are the spiritual disciplines of silence and solitude… Madame Jeanne Guyon, a sought-after counselor and author of the seventeenth-century classic Experiencing the Depths of Jesus Christ, wrote that two kinds of people keep silent:

    The first is one who has nothing to say, and the other is one who has too much to say. In the case of the deeper encounter with the Lord, the latter is true. Silence is produced from [abundant life in God], not from lack. This silence is rich, full and alive!

    … Both silence and solitude require discipline at first, but then they become enjoyable and refreshing… Thomas Kelly assures us. It is not an arduous task, but “nothing more than turning our heart toward God and receiving in turn His love.” [4]

    Next guru Johnson goes on to speculate, “In solitary silence, we encounter the love of God,” but then she quotes deceased universalist Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen to caution us that if we really want God to touch us, “It requires a lot of inner solitude and silence”[5], i.e. this CCP form of so-called “Christian” meditation. She also wants us to know in WtSL that, “Silence and solitude are the outward, physical manifestations of the inward surrender of the heart.” Johnson explains that in CCP aka transcendental meditation-lite:

    We relinquish talking, analyzing, and enjoying the company of others in order to attend only to God. This relinquishment is crucial. “We have all heard this holy Whisper at times,” wrote Thomas Kelly, a Quaker college professor… “[But w]e have not surrendered all else, to attend to it alone.”[6]

    Leaving the burden of the Law just placed upon us as I close this out, for now, to fill you in further concerning the Roman Catholic messed-up mystic Madame Jeanne Guyon mentioned favorably above by guru Jan Johnson I will refer you to The Mindless Mysticism of Madame Guyon by the fine apologetics and discernment ministry Personal Freedom Outreach. Let me also briefly enlighten you concerning Thomas R. Kelly, yet another spiritually corrupt Quaker mystic. Johnson’s quotes of Kelly come from his book A Testament of Devotion (AToD). On page 3 of my copy of AToD, which even contains an Introduction from guru Richard Foster, the mystic Kelly shares about the Inner Light, which is the classic heretical Quaker doctrine that God is already dwells within all mankind. But what you may not know is this teaching itself is actually a mythical musing of classic mysticism often referred to as “the divine spark” or “a spark of the divine.”[7]

    In fact Kelly himself begins by quoting the heretical Roman Catholic mystic Meister Eckhart, who’s a veritable superstar of this mind-numbing mysticism, who was sharing the demonic delusion of “the Light” supposedly “[d]eep within us all”:

    Meister Eckhart wrote: “As thou art in church or cell, that same frame of mind carry into the world, into its turmoil and its fitfulness” Deep within us all there is an amazing inner sanctu [sic] of the soul, a holy place, a Divine Center, a speaking Voice,…the Light within,… It is the Shekinah of the soul, the Presence in the midst. Here is the slumbering Christ, stirring to be awakened to become the soul we clothe in earthly form and action. And He is within us all. [8]

    But casting these mythical mystic musings back to Hell where they belong, I now proclaim to you, no; “He” is not “within us all,” as it is written:

    Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. (Romans 8:8-9)


    And following is the final fruit produced by Roman Catholic mystic Henri Nouwen, a leading teacher of this anti-biblical Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism; below is the “revelation” which came to him through an entire lifetime devoted to this “Ignatian style meditation” in an altered state of consciousness aka Contemplative/Centering Prayer:

    One of the discoveries we make in [contemplative/centering] prayer is that the closer we come to God, the closer we come to all our brothers and sisters in the human family. God is not a private God. The God who dwells in our inner sanctuary is also the God who dwells in the inner sanctuary of each human being. [9]

    Today I personally believe that Jesus came to open the door to God’s house, all human beings can walk through that door, whether they know about Jesus or not. Today I see it as my call to help every person claim his or her way to God. [10]



    The following questions now come emerging:


    Why would you want to practice this Contemplative/Centering Prayer when it made one of its most noted, and knowledgeable, practitioners into a universalist?




    And, why is Priscilla Shirer so anxious to expose the thousands of women
    who follow her to gurus like Jan Johnson who are foisting this foolishness upon Christ’s church?

    So, you tell me.



    http://apprising.org/2010/08/28/pris...tering-prayer/
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

  3. #163
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    Default Ken Silva article on TBN and Contemplative prayer called: But It Appears Like The Real Thing

    BUT IT APPEARS LIKE THE REAL THING
    By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Sep 19, 2010 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Devotions, Features

    Where there is no prophetic vision the people cast off restraint, but blessed is he who keeps the law.
    (Proverbs 29:18)

    It’s Good, So It Must Be God, Right?

    The answer to that question is, no. Remember when Satan was tempting Jesus; note carefully what the prince of the power of the air tells our Lord:

    Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written, “‘You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve.’” (Matthew 4:8-10)

    Quick side note, above is an example of where the Church got the idea of sola Scriptura; from Jesus Himself, a pretty good Source. Pertaining to our discussion here, Satan basically offers Jesus what traps so many in the cult of missional church planters today, numbers. I don’t think anyone with even a modicum of spiritual acumen would deny that the first part of my opening text is a virtual mirror of our twenty-first century postmodern world.

    Sin blatantly thrown into our faces at every turn. Proud boasters prowling their stages decked out with shiny ornate jewelry and spouting vile blasphemies over loud music to adoring crowds who cheer it wildly. And I’m not only talking about the Trinity Blasphemy Network either, as you can find this very same kind of “entertainment” in rap venues as well; not to mention in more than a few Purpose Driven/Seeker Driven megachurches.

    This does give us pause for thought, does it not? In this devotional I admonish those caught up in these excess of the man-centered Church Growth Movement to forget that convoluted conversation within the Emerging Church; turn away from those sinner sensitive PD/SD musings, and run from the prideful prophets of Word Faith before you end up right back in the bondage of the apostate Church of Rome along with all the rest of them.

    Do you really think the Protestant Reformation was wrong; because this is what you are being asked to believe in order to follow these fools as they all indulge in the current fad of corrupt Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, which originally flowered in the antibiblical monastic traditions of apostate Roman Catholicism. The current New Downgrade And Its Apostles Of Unbelief with their Ecumenical Church Of Deceit (ECoD) is very sad indeed.

    As more influential evangelicals embrace the neo-liberal cult of the sinfully ecumenical Emergent Church—blatant in its attack on sola Scriptura—and the self-aggrandizing spiritual pride of the Word Faith Movement, people are indeed casting off restraint. And you know what, it’s the Lord Himself Who is allowing this to happen. Remember though, it’s not like our Father didn’t give us warning because long ago He told us — do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God (Ephesians 4:30).

    I‘m regularly ripped for criticizing the work of people like Rick Warren and Rob Bell and Joel Osteen because, say my critics, they are doing so much good. And then they’ll usually go on to say to me, “You’re just jealous of all the people they are reaching because what you are preaching only turns people off and you’re not reaching anyone.” Can you see the flaw here? Supposedly, I don’t reach anybody…they are reaching thousands.

    Well, the truth is none of us can convert anybody to Christ no matter what we do or how much we promise them. We have little revelation of God today because the seeker sensitive pragmatism of casual Christianity-lite will never be blessed by the LORD God Almighty of the Bible; and hence it’s powerless to save. Likely what we are witnessing right now is just another prophetic fulfillment of:

    “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’” (Matthew 7:21-23)

    Today I appeal to you in Christ’s Name to awaken from this narcissistic nightmare falsely being portrayed as Christianity. If you have been taken in by these deceiving man-pleasers having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power; now you need to, Avoid such people (2 Timothy 3:5). Please, pick up the Bible and check these things out for yourself; for I tell in the Lord that time is running out, and you are playing a game with your life that has eternal stakes.

    But, the Lord be praised, there’s still God’s Gospel of grace in repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus’ Name; won’t you come to Him…now…before it’s too late.


    http://apprising.org/2010/09/19/but-...he-real-thing/
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have charity, I am nothing. 1 Co 13:2

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    Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
    Coming again coming again maybe morning maybe noon maybe evening and maybe soon!
    Coming again coming again O what a wonderful day it will be! Jesus is coming again!

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    Does someone have a link to this article? I'm getting a 404 error
    Praise Warrior
    Psa 150:6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

  7. #167
    Christina Guest

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    Another awesome write-up!

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    I went to the homepage and it looks like the site's been rolled back to a 2008 backup. Weird.

  9. #169
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    Default The Mystery of Contemplative Prayer (video)

    This is a video by Mike Hoggard about Contemplative Prayer. It was recorded recently and is about an hour and a half long.

    http://sureynot.com/v/1325/the-myste...ve-prayer.html

    I've just started watching it, but I expect it to be as educational as all his stuff is. Hope you find it to be helpful.
    Last edited by JustGrateful; November 1st, 2010 at 11:49 AM.

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    He does an excellent job in this video of showing what contemplative prayer achieves. I took a few notes:

    Eph 5:18--wine of this world--drunkenness--altered state of consciousness.

    Sober--to think soberly--sobrious--without inebriation--think soberly

    1 Thess 5:1-3 sleep and drunkenness at night.



    Jeremiah 51:57--will make drunk--lower brain wave patterns--go to sleep--hypnosis
    Alpha brain wave patterns--equated with drunkenness

    Bishop and wives must be sober
    Aged men and women must be sober
    Exhort young men to be sober--

    Titus 2:11--deny ungodliness and worldly lusts

    1 Peter--gird up loins of your mind and be sober

    2 Peter 4:7--pray soberly

    1 Peter 5:8--Be sober so you can keep away from the Lion

    Contemplative prayer is like a form of hypnosis

    Mal 3:6 God is a Rock
    Prov 5:6--woman more like clay--He compares right and left brain in an interesting way.

    Straight and narrow way vs. the labyrinth

    Feelings, emotion, imagination, intuition are what the church is seeking after for guidance.

    Receive extrasensory info through 3rd eye
    Alpha waves--heart of witchcraft--enter altered states of consciousness

    Mind opens up to non ordinary forms of info--mystical, visionary info

    Solitude--change frequencies--
    1 Chronicles 10:13-14 Saul was anointed of God--he rejected word of Samuel
    Went to witch of Endor who contacted a familiar spirit
    God killed him.
    Lev 20:6 God--I will set my face against
    Babylon the Great--mystery religions

    Churches hooked into the system--literature that promotes spiritual formation
    Accept curriculum--abandon the Bible

    Become drunk with the wine of her fornication--full of abominations
    There is a cup that brings drunkenness
    1 Cor 10:21
    Amos 8:11 There will be a famine of hearing God's word.
    Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. This is the cup God wishes us to drink from.

  11. #171
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    The practice of "contemplative" prayer has been abused by apostate ministries introducing eastern mysticism into churches for several years now. This video exposes their new age ecumenical methods of madness (such as vain repetition)



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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  12. #172
    JustGrateful Guest

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    I like the way he backs up everything with scripture...sort of saves me some work.

    I've tried to have conversations with Christians about contemplative prayer...and they've said such things as, "Well, yeah...duh! I'd hope we'd be contemplating our prayers!"

    They look at me like I'm crazy to disagree with such a "godly" practice.

    And preachers just won't preach on this and things like it! Why not???

    There are soooooo many, right in the pews around us, who have no clue. The speaker in the video makes it quite clear, using abundant scripture, why this is so dangerous. I just fear any warnings will be predominantly falling on deaf ears in today's churches.

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    Default Peter Scazzero Recommending Contemplative/Centering Prayer (and my side comment)

    PETER SCAZZERO RECOMMENDING CONTEMPLATIVE/CENTERING PRAYER
    By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 5, 2011 in AM Missives, Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism, Current Issues, Emergence Christianity, Emergent Church, Features, Rick Warren, Southern Baptist Convention, Spiritual Formation, Youth Ministry

    …they are full of things from the east and of fortune-tellers like the Philistines, and they strike hands with the children of foreigners. (Isaiah 2:6)

    Circle Up The Wagons We’re Heading Home To Rome

    Evangelicals are quick to praise Charles Spurgeon, who stood tall for the purity of God’s Gospel during the Downgrade Controversy; this is quite unlike what’s going on today in what’s really a New Downgrade No-Controversy With Its Apostles Of Unbelief.

    Spurgeon reminds you what squishy evangelical leaders have forgotten concerning the pletora of false teachers littering the landscape of the church visible:

    “The preachers of false doctrine dislike nothing more than the premature detection of their doings. Only give them time enough to prepare men’s minds for the reception of their ‘new views,’ and they are confident of success. They have had too much time already, and any who refuse to speak out now must be held to be ‘partakers of their evil deeds.’

    As Mr. Spurgeon says, ‘A little plain-speaking would do a world of good just now. These gentlemen desire to be let alone. They want no noise raised. Of course thieves hate watch-dogs, and love darkness. It is time that somebody should spring his rattle, and call attention to the way in which God is being robbed of his glory and man of his hope.’” (Online source)

    This online apologetics and discernment work Apprising Ministries has been blessed of Jesus to be used as one of His “go-to” ministries in the area of the ne0-Gnostic corruption called Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM), which is now pandemic within mainstream evangelicalism through its foolish embrace of the sinfully ecumenical neo-liberal cult of the Emergent Church aka the Emerging Church with its quasi-universalism in a new version of Progressive Christian theology under their spiritual circus “big tent” Emergence Christianity.

    You need to understand that this spurious CSM—the refried Roman Catholic mysticism “discovered” by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster, and now perpetrated within the mainstream of evangelicalism as supposed Spiritual Formation with an able assist from his spiritual twin SBC minister Dallas Willard, was a core doctrine in the EC right from its hatching in Hell.

    As I showed you in Rick Warren Guilty For Endorsing The Cult Of Guru Richard Foster And His Reimagined Gnostic Mysticism, while discussing what he calls The Discipleship/Spiritual Formation Movement, Purpose Driven Pope Rick Warren has written:

    A reemphasis on developing believers to full maturity has been the focus of this movement. Organizations such as the Navigators, Worldwide Discipleship, and Campus Crusade for Christ, and authors such as Waylon Moore, Gary Kuhne, Gene Getz, Richard Foster, and Dallas Willard have underscored the importance of building up Christians and establishing personal spiritual disciplines.[1]

    I also showed you in Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, And Spiritual Disciplines, at the Spiritual Disciplines page of its The Spiritual Growth Center at his Saddleback flagship, we find a prominent recommendation of Richard Foster’s magum opus Celebration Of Discipline (CoD)[2] However, Dr. Gary Gilley has rightly pointed out, “Celebration of Discipline alone, not even referencing Foster’s other writings and teachings and ministries, is a virtual encyclopedia of theological error.”[3]

    Then on that same page at Saddleback Church we also find The Spirit of the Disciplines by Foster’s friend Dallas Willard, who I pointed out is an SBC minister as is Rick Warren; but Christian apologist Bob DeWaay shows us in his The Dangers of Spiritual Formation and Spiritual Disciplines that, “Dallas Willard bases his entire spiritual disciplines book on his understanding of Matthew 11:29, 30,” and further, “The idea of practicing spiritual disciplines was imported to the text, not found there.”[4]

    Another thing to keep in mind is that Living Spiritual Teacher and EC guru Brian McLaren, one third of the unholy trinity of EC apostates along with universalist Emerging Church pastor Doug Pagitt and his friend Tony Jones—the progressive “theologian in residence” at Solomon’s Porch—informed us that Foster and Willard were “key mentors for the emerging church”[5] and their whole shtick is spreading spurious CSM under the guise of so-called Spiritual Formation (SF), which has been used in evangelical seminaries for years now.

    Now at this point I remind you, as you can see e.g. just from a couple of days ago in Doug Pagitt And Alleged Slander and Doug Pagitt Shows His Character, pastors like me who expose these pathetic posers immediately hear the cry that we’re being dishonest. So wanting to make sure we don’t make a wrong assessment concerning the motivation and discernment of these false prophets and quasi-Christian teachers I’ve been methodically building these cases against them much as would a lawyer.

    With this all in mind then what you have seen above, and are about to see below, is not guilt by association; it is guilt by endorsement, plain and simple. It’s an incontrovertable fact that Rick Warren promotes the SF of Foster and Willard; this is to promote CSM that certainly does involve Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP)—meditation in an altered state of consciousness—the main vehicle of CSM aka “silence.” Of course he’s hardly alone as a pretending to be Protestant promoting the Counter Reformation spirituality of apostate Roman Catholicism.

    At the same time Warren is definitely responsible for lending his huge forum to a teacher of CSM by the name of Peter Scazzero, which as I showed you in Peter Scazzero Promoted By Rick Warren, Warren did at his Radicalis conference this past February at Saddleback Church. In the mass email Chat Live with Radicalis Speaker, Pete Scazzero, Wednesday, December 9 at 11 am pst Warren himself told us:

    Pete, along with his wife, Geri, are co-founders of Emotionally Healthy Spirituality, a groundbreaking ministry that integrates emotional health and contemplative spirituality to pastors, leaders and local churches. (On file at AM, emphasis mine)

    So there no question Rick Warren knew that Scazzero peddles CSM. You should also know that Scazzero has been partnered for quite some time with the warped Willow Creek Association (WCA),


    which extends from another notorious man-centered Church Growth Movement mega-church Willow Creek; and we’re told that WCA “is regarded as the most influential ministry to evangelical pastors in the U.S.”[6]:






    Why Would Professing Christians Turn To Pagan Religious Practices To Worship God?

    The point is that with the ringing endorsement of CGM gurus Rick Warren and Bill Hybels we can see that Peter Scazzero, sadly, is now very highly influential within mainstream evangelical circles. In posts like Peter Scazzero As Spiritual Benedict Arnold and Peter Scazzero Bringing Rome Home To His Church I’ve been showing you the rotten fruit of CSM in the disgusting compromise of Scazzero; and in addition, how CSM also moves practioners away from the proper Christian spirituality of sola Scriptura into a quasi-universal love of self (cf. 2 Timothy 3:2).

    Here’s another example of the grave dangers of CSM and its critical-thinking killing TM for Christians known as contemplative or centering prayer; the words are actually interchangable for the so-called spiritual discipline of Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP)—meditation in an altered state of consciousness—i.e. transcendental meditation lightly sprayed with Christian terminology. Now consider a tweet yesterday sent out by Scazzero:




    The link above takes us to Contemplative Outreach where we’re told that Living Spiritual Teacher and apostate Roman Catholic monk Thomas Keating is it spiritual guide:





    You can learn more about guru Keating’s mystic musings in Thomas Keating On Contemplative/Centering Prayer; for now, I want to draw your attention to the book Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening (CPIA) by Cynthia Bourgeault, which Peter Scazzero tells us he’s “[e]njoying as part of my time with God.” I’m going to show you just how united these neo-Gnostic dreamers are becoming, and just how far they have now penetrated into the heart of mainstream evangelicalism. We have real reason for concern here because you’re about to see this even includes heretical progressive/liberals like Brian McLaren.

    In Good Shepherd Church Going Ape…Almost I first told you about “The Rev. Cynthia Bourgeault, Ph.D” whom The Contemplative Society informs us is an:

    Episcopal priest, writer, and internationally known retreat leader [who] divides her time between solitude on Eagle Island, Maine, and a demanding schedule traveling globally to teach and spread the recovery of the Christian contemplative path. She is the founding Director of both The Contemplative Society and the Aspen Wisdom School. (Online source)

    Her name is already familiar to those of us tracking the traitorous teachings of EC guru McLaren because in his post 11 Women Writers You Should Be Reading McLaren mused:

    Here are some of my favorite women writers of spirituality and theology in no particular order with short comments on why I recommend them… 5. Cynthia Bourgeault: Cynthia reminds me of Thomas Merton — she is a mystic with a brilliant mind who deserves far wider readership. (Centering Prayer and Inner Awakening)… (Online source, bold his)

    Notice guru McLaren specifically recommends CPIA; and from my personal copy of Bourgeault’s book cited above, I” show you in the following what this “mystic with a brilliant mind,” who “reminds” McLaren of the CSM Golden Buddha Thomas Merton, and whom the EC guru feels “deserves a far wider readship,” has to tell us concerning the alleged “awakening” mystics seek in silent meditation. i.e. CCP:

    But why is intentional silence so important to this process of awakening?… I had read somewhere that without spiritual training the human mind is unable to concentrate on anything for more than two minutes… The Buddhists smilingly call this “monkey mind.” The little beast jumps from one tree limb to the other, taking the whole of it with us.[7]

    To further instruct us about this so-called “monkey mind” I’ll call as an expert witness Shane Hipps, the new co-teaching pastor now along with his good friend Rob Bell at Mars Hill Bible Church; the below is from his sermon Enlightenment, which is all about the supposed “spiritual discipline of silence” aka CCP. MHBC pastor Hipps surmises:

    Silent prayer is when you go to a silent place and then you quiet the mind; and you don’t say anything to God…you just “be.” Now, if any of you have ever tried this, you know it’s totally maddening (laughs) to try to just stop thinking, right?

    And because we all know that’s pretty much impossible because the mind is like a frantic monkey bouncing around on the inside of your brain…[8]

    If there’s any question of the origin of this monkey mind myth, let me refer you to The Monkey Mind entry in the online A Guide to Buddhism A to Z where we find out:

    The monkey mind (kapicitta) is a term sometimes used by the Buddha to describe the agitated, easily distracted and incessantly moving behaviour of ordinary human consciousness (Ja.III,148; V,445). Once he observed:

    ‘Just as a monkey swinging through the trees grabs one branch and lets it go only to seize another, so too that which is called thought, mind or consciousness arises and disappears continually both day and night’ (S.II,93). (Online source)




    Which now begs the question: Why are Christians, who ostensibly have a personal relationship with God in Christ, now having to turn to Buddhists, who may or may not even believe there is a God, in order to learn about Christian spirituality?


    You might want to consider this:


    With today’s pretending to be Protestant evangelical community we have now come full circle in turning pagans and adopting their spiritual practices, as did the original apostate desert hermits, whose mystic musings would flower in the monastic traditions.

    Bottom line: That deceptive subjectivism would eventually lead to the Protestant Reformation; unfortunately, this time I don’t see any Reformers, just joiners


    http://apprising.org/2011/01/05/pete...tering-prayer/
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

  14. #174
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    billiefan2000 side comment time:

    since Scazerro is admitting he is pushing new-age stuff and sounds like some of the UCC and UMC leaders in my town who are into new-age and universalism,

    I have a question for 3 certain willow creek assocation churches in my town:

    (Christ Community and Lifegate and Brookside)

    1. when will the willow creek association churches in my town apologize for promoting a guy who promotes roman catholic mysticism and new-age stuff

    (doubt Beauchamp and Ashton and Moultmyr will apologize consider how far into apostasy all 3 wca churches are into)

    p.s. for my friends who sadly go to these churches to leave and find a bible believing church.

    I spirtually worry for them
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Question Calvinist Contemplative Centering Prayer?

    http://apprising.org/2010/01/04/calv...tering-prayer/

    But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? (Galatians 4:9, NASB)

    Reformed Theology With Counter Reformation Spirituality?

    In the December 30, 2009 article Mysticism: A Counterfeit Holy Spirit at Sola Sisters we read:

    An excellent article at More Books and Things (Calvinists Promoting Contemplative Books and Things) discusses the startling trend of Calvinists beginning to embrace mystical practices such as contemplative prayer, taize, lectio divina, centering prayer, etc. Mystical Calvinists? An oxymoron, if ever there was one. Calvinists are supposed to be the solid ones, the ones holding the line on attacks against the Sola’s…..right? Hello? Hello? Is this thing on? Okay, for anyone unclear on this:

    Mysticism = the Opposite of Sola Scripture

    But in today’s crazy, mixed-up world of postmodernism, syncretism and ecumenism, the Calvinists are letting down their guard. They’re letting themselves be convinced that there is a type of mysticism that is not pagan, but is Christian, biblical and necessary for being close to God… (Online source, bold theirs)

    Apprising Ministries began looking into this very question in Confusion Concerning Calvinist Spirituality? and then later in Calvinist Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism? I also told you in Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism Creeps Closer…To Your Church about a key component which was hidden within the Trojan Horse of the egregiously ecumenical Emerging Church aka Emergent Church with its Emergence Christianity (EC) de-formation of the Christian faith—a cult of Liberalism 2.0 now firmly within the walls of mainstream evangelicalism.

    What the EC has been doing all along is blurring doctrinal lines through their core doctrine of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard. I’ve pointed out before that as far back as 2004 EC guru Brian McLaren told you that that Foster and Willard were “key mentors” of the EC, and their whole shtick is spreading spurious CSM under the guise of so-called Spiritual Formation, which has been used in evangelical seminaries for years now.

    I’ve also reminded you that next month at his Radicalis conference to be held at Saddleback Church Purpose Driven Pope Rick Warren is set to shove forward into the mainstream of evangelicalism a CSM guru by the name of Peter Scazzero, who has direct ties to the Church Growth Movement flagship Willow Creek Association. And as I said before, this is where the cloudy waters within Calvinist circles are now becoming muddied even further with this highly subjective CSM, which truly is absolutely antithetical to the proper Christian spirituality of Sola Scriptura.

    The point is not that we experience God, instead what we’re discussing revolves around concerns about how the Lord told us in the Bible that we should experience Him; and make no mistake, this is going to be a defining doctrine of our generation. For example, one of the speakers for Radicalis will be Reformed pastor Mark Driscoll of Acts 29 Network. From the Lighthouse blog of Lighthouse Trails Research (LTR) recently ran a post called Mark Driscoll IS a Contemplative Proponent. In it LTR points out:

    Although Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Fellowship in Seattle Washington, is said to have denounced certain aspects of the emergent church, Driscoll is a proponent of the main element behind the emerging church – contemplative prayer. (Online source)

    And you should know that Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP) is indeed the crowning jewel of CSM; it’s actually a form meditation in an altered state of consciousness, in other words CCP is transcendental meditation lightly sprayed with Christian terms. LTR then goes on:

    In an article written by Driscoll himself, ironically titled Obedience, Driscoll tells readers to turn to Richard Foster and contemplative Gary Thomas. Driscoll states:

    If you would like to study the spiritual disciplines in greater detail … helpful are Celebration of Discipline, by Richard Foster, and Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas…

    As for Gary Thomas, in his book Sacred Pathways (the one Driscoll recommends), Thomas tells readers to repeat a word for 20 minutes in order to still the mind. This is the basic principle in all Eastern and occultic methods. (Online source)

    We’ll get to Gary Thomas and his mantra meditation next time; however in closing this for now I will bring out again that, here we see Celebration of Discipline by Quaker mystic Richard Foster recommended favorably by a Calvinist pastor. So, if you’ve not seen it, I pray you’ll make the time to read this dead-on-target assessment of Foster’s warped work taken from the excellent Mysticism series by Dr. Gary Gilley:

    Celebration of Discipline alone, not even referencing Foster’s other writings and teachings and ministries, is a virtual encyclopedia of theological error. We would be hard pressed to find in one so-called evangelical volume such a composite of false teaching.

    These include faulty views on the subjective leading of God (pp. 10, 16-17, 18, 50, 95, 98, 108-109, 128, 139-140, 149-150, 162, 167, 182); approval of New Age teachers (see Thomas Merton…); occultic use of imagination (pp. 25-26, 40-43, 163, 198); open theism (p. 35); misunderstanding of the will of God in prayer (p. 37); promotion of visions, revelations and charismatic gifts (pp. 108, 165, 168-169, 171, 193); endorsement of rosary and prayer wheel use (p. 64); misunderstanding of the Old Testament Law for today (pp. 82, 87); mystical journaling (p. 108); embracing pop-psychology (pp. 113-120); promoting Roman Catholic practices such as use of “spiritual directors,” confession and penance (pp. 146-150, 156, 185); and affirming of aberrant charismatic practices (pp. 158-174, 198). (Online source)

    I have to wonder what exactly is “helpful” to the Body of Christ about the above? And yet more and more we’re seeing many younger otherwise orthodox Calvinist ministers, such as another Acts 29er Matt Chandler, embracing the heterodox (at best) CSM of Foster/Willard, which is unquestionably rooted in the corrupt contemplative Counter Reformation theology of apostate Roman Catholicism. In other words, these kinds of very wrong approaches to proper Christian spirituality would lead people so far away from Jesus that God would eventually raise up His Reformers in the first place.

    But are we really to believe that somehow, now that so-called Protestants are practicing CSM, the results are going to be different?

    The Calvin Institute of Christian Worship describes themselves as an organization that promotes the study and renewal of Christian worship around the world. Their intended target is a wide ecumenical audience, while respecting and cultivating "the strengths of the Reformed, evangelical tradition in which Calvin College and Calvin Theological Seminary stand, as well as to engage Christians in other traditions." They work in close partnership with Calvin Theological Seminary, and have also partnered with professional organizations, parachurch organizations, colleges and seminaries via publishing and educational events. Through their programs they claim to have mentored over 50 students at Calvin College and Calvin Theological Seminary.

    But what the Calvin Institute of Christian Worship (CICW) has not mentioned in their description of themselves is the fact that they are also leading Christians straight into the emergent/contemplative spiritual formation movement.



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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  16. #176
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    Default Mark driscoll and neo-reformed new calvinist contemplative spirituality

    http://apprising.org/2010/05/29/mark...-spirituality/

    Creating Your Own Way To Worship God

    Apprising Ministries has shared some concern about this New Calvinism as expressed e.g. by Matt Chandler and particularly Mark Driscoll, founder of Acts 29 Network, in recent posts such as Acts 29 Network And Reformed Counter Reformation Spirituality? and Acts 29 Pastor Matt Chandler On Being A Reformed Charismatic. In my assessment there’s very good reason for concern as these people are rapidly growing in popularity and influence within the younger sector of the Reformed Camp; being blessed as they are by Dr. John Piper, who’s seen as a “pioneer” of this New Calvinism. [1]

    Then in Spiritual Disciplines According To Martin Luther I connected some more of the dots for you concerning the Acts 29 Church Planting Network itself where you heard from Darren Patrick, its own Vice President, that they are a “neo-Reformed” section of the Emerging Church. Let me be perfectly clear: Acts 29 is most certainly not heretical in its basic theological beliefs. The concern here is the recommendation of a key component that was hidden within the Trojan Horse of the sinfully ecumenical Emergent Church (EC) and its new “big tent” progressive/liberal de-formation of the Christian faith they call Emergence Christianity.

    This EC—a neo-liberal cult now firmly entrenched within the walls of mainstream evangelicalism—has long been busy now blurring doctrinal lines through their core doctrine of Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism (CSM) as taught by Living Spiritual Teacher and Quaker mystic Richard Foster along with his spiritual twin and Southern Baptist minister Dallas Willard. And I’ve clearly shown you that Acts 29 recommends Foster’s book Celebration of Discipline (CoD), a seminal source for spurious spirituality which Dr. Gary Gilley of Think On These Things Ministries calls “an encyclopedia of theological error.”

    In Calvinist Contemplative Spirituality/Mysticism? I pointed you to Mark Driscoll IS a Contemplative Proponent at From the Lighthouse blog of Lighthouse Trails Reseach (LTR); and while we wouldn’t necessarily agree with all of their conclusions, they do remind us that back in February of this year Driscoll was a featured speaker, along with CSM teacher Peter Scazzero, at the Radicalis conference put on by Purpose Driven Pope Rick Warren at his Saddleback Church. LTR also informs us that:

    Although Driscoll, pastor of Mars Hill Fellowship in Seattle Washington, is said to have denounced certain aspects of the emergent church, Driscoll is a proponent of the main element behind the emerging church – contemplative prayer. (Online source)

    If you don’t know Contemplative/Centering Prayer (CCP), the crowning jewel of CSM, is meditation in an altered state of consciousness i.e. transcendental meditation lightly sprayed with Christian terms. LTR then goes on:

    Presently, on Driscoll’s website, The Resurgence (see whois info) is an article titled “How to Practice Meditative Prayer.” The article is written by an Acts 29 (Driscoll’s network of churches) pastor, Winfield Bevins. A nearly identical article on Driscoll’s site, also by Bevins, is titled Meditative Prayer: Filling the Mind. Both articles show a drawing of a human brain. In this latter article, Bevins recognizes contemplative mystic pioneer Richard Foster:

    What do we mean by meditative prayer? Is there such a thing as Christian meditation? Isn’t meditation non-Christian? According to Richard Foster, “Eastern meditation is an attempt to empty the mind. Christian meditation is an attempt to fill the mind” (Celebration of Discipline). Rather than emptying the mind we fill it with God’s word. We must not neglect a vital part of our Judeo-Christian heritage simply because other traditions use a form of meditation. (Online source)

    And finally LTR brings out:

    The Bevins’ reference to Richard Foster is not the only contemplative marker on Mark Driscoll’s site . In an article written by Driscoll himself, ironically titled Obedience, Driscoll tells readers to turn to Richard Foster and contemplative Gary Thomas. Driscoll states:

    If you would like to study the spiritual disciplines in greater detail … helpful are Celebration of Discipline, by Richard Foster, and Sacred Pathways, by Gary Thomas…

    As for Gary Thomas, in his book Sacred Pathways (the one Driscoll recommends), Thomas tells readers to repeat a word for 20 minutes in order to still the mind. This is the basic principle in all Eastern and occultic methods. (Online source)

    I previously pointed out in Who Is John Main? this form of “mantra meditation” encouraged by Thomas, and apparently also recommended by Driscoll, is traced to Dom (father) John Main (1926-1982). Main was a Roman Catholic priest and monk of the Order of Saint Benedict (OSB); he’s also universally known by those in the so-called “contemplative tradition” as the man who rediscovered “the practice of pure prayer, or Christian meditation,” using a “holy phrase” also known as a mantra. In 1975 Main “began the first meditation groups at his monastery in London and, later, in Montreal.” [2]

    Earlier in John Main: Indian Swami A Holy Man Of God I showed that in his book The Sacred Way (SW) Tony Jones, a leading progressive/liberal theologian in the Emerging Church, recommends Moment of Christ: The Path of Meditation (MoC) by John Main under the category of “meditation” in his suggested “Resources.” And Jones confirms for us that, “Main combined Christian teaching with Hindu meditation to form a mantra-meditation” [3]. Jones also tells is in SW:

    At the end of the 20th century, Benedictine monk John Main pioneered a Christian form of meditation that was influenced by his study with a Hindu master. He taught a form of meditation using the word maranatha (Aramaic for “Come, Lord”) as a mantra. Sitting cross-legged, the meditator chants (either aloud or silently) “ma-ra-na-tha” for 20 minutes daily. The teachings of Brother Main and others became so popular that the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a letter to all Catholic bishops in 1989, entitled “Some Aspects of Christian Meditation” to guide the bishops in their leadership of churches that were using meditation [4]

    You should also know that John Main, every bit a mystic monk ala CSM Golden Buddha Thomas Merton, is one of the “classic” writers featured in a book called Spiritual Classics (SC), which is edited by no less an authority on CSM than the Guru of Contemplation Richard Foster along with Roman Catholic mystic Emilie Griffin. Main’s supposed “spiritual classic” in SC is actually a section on “The Meaning of Silence”; i.e. it’s the meditation of CCP Main teaches in his book MoC—just recommended above by Tony Jones. In the introduction to Main’s piece in SC we’re told that:

    Dom John Main understood well the value of both silence and solitude… Always drawn to religion and the spiritual life, Main rediscovered meditation while living in the Far East… Influenced by the fifth-century writings of John Cassian, Main learned the ancient Christian discipline of the prayer of silence… In the following selection, an essay taken from his book Moments of Christ: The Path of Meditation, Father John is not just teaching us a style of praying… Silence is a path into the reality of the universe, where God is in charge and we are not,… [5]

    Your Authentic, True, And Sinful Self Is Actually What Has Separated You From God

    So now you have a much better idea of what Gary Thomas, recommended by neo-Reformed New Calvinist Mark Driscoll, is leading his readers into in his book Sacred Pathways (SP). As I’ve said before, I happen to have SP and the fact is, chapter 9 is a veritable ode of praise for contemplatives; speaking of which, Thomas tells us that they:

    simply want to bathe in the ocean of love God has for his children, while the rest of us seem unfortunately content to experience that love drop by drop. [6]

    Thomas then continues on with his romanticizing of mystics as he tell us about the “Acts of Contemplatives,” which he calls “many forms of prayer and activities that contemplatives can make use of in addition to general contemplative prayer.” Next Thomas goes through “The Jesus Prayer,” “Secret Acts of Devotion,” “Dancing Prayer,” “Centering Prayer” (it’s the same as Contemplative Prayer), “Prayer of the Heart,” “Stations of the Cross,” and finally “Meditative Prayer,” which you’ll see mystics also refer to as “the silence” and/or “wordless prayer” [7]; but, the truth is, it’s nowhere taught in Scripture.

    Under that section Meditative Prayer Thomas goes into a short spiel about Ignatius of Loyola, the founder of the militantly pro-Roman Catholic Church mystic group the Jesuits who, on orders of the Pope, functioned very much like a spiritual Counter Reformation Gestapo Unit during the Protestant Reformation. Thomas though tells that “The Spiritual Exercises, [of Ignatius of Loyola] helped make mental prayer [means CCP] more popular” [8]; even though it was never practiced or taught by Jesus; nor was it practiced or taught by His Apostles; it orginated with third century desert hermits in Egypt.

    Concerning Ignatius of Loyola, Jesuit scholar J. William Harmless—professor of historical theology and patristic studies at Creighton Universitywhich is itself a Jesuit school—informs us in his book Mystics:

    I myself belong to one of these mystical communities, the Society of Jesus [Jesuits], founded in 1540 by a flamboyant Basque mystic, Ignatius of Loyola (1492-1556). Every Jesuit at least twice in his life must go through Ignatius’s Spiritual Exercises. The Exercises (to vastly simplify it) requires that one undergo a thirty-day silent [means meditating] retreat in which one converses only with a spiritual director.

    During that month, one prays a minimum of five hours a day using a wide variety repertoire of prayer forms. The most famous is what Ignatius called contemplatio,… Jesuit mystical spirituality cannot be written down; it is, at its very core, oral… I realized that Jesuit spirituality, like Zen [Buddhist] spirituality, is a lamplight transmitted generation to generation, orally, from teacher to disciple. [9]

    Quite pious-sounding but in reality a classic case of seeking individual, personal, experience with God, which by nature is highly subjective; and, as you’ll see in John MacArthur: Existential Neo-Orthodoxy Denies Sola Scriputra, Dr. MacArthur is right-on-target when he says that:

    [Contemplative Spirituality aka] Mysticism is perfectly suited for religious existentialism; indeed, it is the inevitable consequence. The mystic disdains rational understanding and seeks truth instead through the feelings, the imagination, personal visions, inner voices, private illumination, of other purely subjective means. Objective truth becomes practically superfluous.

    Mysticial experiences are therefore self-authenticating; that is, they are not subject to any form of objective verification. They are unique to the person who experiences them. Since they do not arise from or depend upon any rational process, they are invulnerable to any refutation by rational means… Mysticism is therefore antithetical to discernment. It is an extreme form of reckless faith. [10]

    In closing this out, for now, you should understand that what this CSM ends up producing is a sappy, centered on the self, psycho-babble form of Christianity as these mystics “go within” themselves in search of “an authentic self” aka some supposed “true self.” However, at its very core, it ends up a denial of the doctrine of original sin. I find it rather odd that people, who would tell us they are Protestants in line with Reformation theology, would be so quick to recommend this kind of Counter Reformation spirituality to their church planters and to the younger section of evangelicals influenced by this New Calvinism.



    Revelation 22:17a The Spirit and Bride are now saying, "Come!" The ones who hear are now saying, "Come!" The ones who thirst are now saying, "Come!" so come LORD Jesus !
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    Well this surprises me, and then it doesn't.


    After all, Calvinists already have no problem letting man's theology (Calvin's, John MacArthur's, etc) skew their understanding of the Bible, so why not follow other men into mysticism. They like to say they are on solid ground being "sola scriptura" and all, but as long as they deviate from the Bible, they aren't as solid as they claim.
    I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. (Rev. 3:8,10)


    I'm a Navy mom.

  18. #178
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    This has just rocked me.... I'm so confused now. My pastor and his wife refer to Mark Driscoll often, and close friends, who I view as more spiritually mature than me, refer to Matt Chandler often, too. Not only that, but my mother-in-law, my spiritual mother and mentor, gave me the Spiritual Pathways book mentioned here shortly after my salvation.

    I didn't identify with the contemplative pathway, as stated in the book. To me, it felt too close to my pagan meditation, so I see that there for sure, and agree. Mantras have no place in Christianity.

    Indulge me while I ask a couple questions, please. Like I said, this has just rocked me quite a bit, and now I'm confused. This is the third time in less than two months that something has crossed my path that has really forced me to reevaulate my thinking pertaining to what is appropriate Christian thinking/worship, and I can barely find my footing..


    Question #1: Is focusing on Jesus in prayer and praying scripture considered contemplative mysticism, do you think?

    Question #2: Thinking back on my salvation experience (which I detailed here on the message boards), I'm a little frightened now. God reached out to me in a way I've not too often heard of in Christian circles. It always has struck me as odd that it was so overt and so personal-- and almost mystical! And now, especially reading this part of what Buzz posted, I'm concerned:

    Mysticial experiences are therefore self-authenticating; that is, they are not subject to any form of objective verification. They are unique to the person who experiences them. Since they do not arise from or depend upon any rational process, they are invulnerable to any refutation by rational means… Mysticism is therefore antithetical to discernment. It is an extreme form of reckless faith. [10]

    I know my salvation experience was real. I know know know it. But now... does this mean it isn't valid? Is it too similar to contemplative prayer in that it seems almost mystical?



    Question #3: Even though I see none of this contemplative mysticism evident in my church, nor do I practice it, should I be alerting my pastor to this kind of thing involving Mark Driscoll? I feel like I'm so young in the faith (only 3 years) that I may not be taken seriously...



    Thanks for your help. I'm not at all disagreeing with you; this just shook me to the core.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evoo327 View Post
    Question #1: Is focusing on Jesus in prayer and praying scripture considered contemplative mysticism, do you think?
    Great question, here is the simple answer. Focusing is a great thing to do, just don't let your mind check out by emptying it through Eastern spiritual means. Always be present, while in His presence. (Prayer)

    Quote Originally Posted by Evoo327 View Post
    Question #2: Thinking back on my salvation experience (which I detailed here on the message boards), I'm a little frightened now. God reached out to me in a way I've not too often heard of in Christian circles. It always has struck me as odd that it was so overt and so personal-- and almost mystical! And now, especially reading this part of what Buzz posted, I'm concerned:

    I know my salvation experience was real. I know know know it. But now... does this mean it isn't valid? Is it too similar to contemplative prayer in that it seems almost mystical?

    Not at all, the "experience" means little, since the issue of Salvation is black and white. Does His blood atone for your sin? Has His innocence paid the price for your guilt? Are you hopeless and helpless without His forgiveness? You know the essential Salvation questions, if they are yes answers, you are saved and experience and feelings have nothing to do with it. Rest easy, walk and grow in Him, eyes wide open and not in mysticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evoo327 View Post
    Question #3: Even though I see none of this contemplative mysticism evident in my church, nor do I practice it, should I be alerting my pastor to this kind of thing involving Mark Driscoll? I feel like I'm so young in the faith (only 3 years) that I may not be taken seriously...
    If God compels you to I suppose so, but based on what happens to others who post similar problems in their churches, Pastors seem reluctant to listen. Printing these articles and fully understanding the issue will be important. Make sure The Lord is directing you to do this, and be ready for potential push back.
    There is One King, and He is not this guy.

  20. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnceWasLost View Post
    Great question, here is the simple answer. Focusing is a great thing to do, just don't let your mind check out by emptying it through Eastern spiritual means. Always be present, while in His presence. (Prayer)
    Oh, okay. I love being present in His presence, so that's not an issue. Even in my old pagan days, I was never a fan of emptying my mind a la Eastern mysticism, so I've never ventured into that area!


    Quote Originally Posted by OnceWasLost View Post
    Not at all, the "experience" means little, since the issue of Salvation is black and white. Does His blood atone for your sin? Has His innocence paid the price for your guilt? Are you hopeless and helpless without His forgiveness? You know the essential Salvation questions, if they are yes answers, you are saved and experience and feelings have nothing to do with it. Rest easy, walk and grow in Him, eyes wide open and not in mysticism.
    Those are all "yes" answers. The more I grow in Him, the more I feel small-- there's still so much to learn and so much maturing to do. Thank you for the reminders.


    Quote Originally Posted by OnceWasLost View Post
    If God compels you to I suppose so, but based on what happens to others who post similar problems in their churches, Pastors seem reluctant to listen. Printing these articles and fully understanding the issue will be important. Make sure The Lord is directing you to do this, and be ready for potential push back.
    You're absolutely right. I don't think the Lord is directing me to do this, at least not now. I'm just going to keep learning, and seeking the Lord in His word. Coming to this board has helped me grow immensely and has opened my eyes to heresies that I never noticed before, even though I should have.



    Okay, threadjack over. Thanks again!

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