Richard Stearns; The Hole in Our Gospel & Unfinished

[Camelknees33]

Has anyone read this book and/or know anything about the author? He founded World Vision. There are comments inside the cover from Chuck Colson, Kay Warren, Luci Swindoll, Sheila Walsh, Leighton Ford--just to name a few. Thanks

[Merrily]

I read this book over the summer and concluded that in his book Mr. Stearns confuses "Law" and "Gospel" to make his arguments and twists scripture to support an agenda.

As with Brian McLaren in Everything Must Change, he redefines what the Gospel is to support his belief that as Christians we are expected to save the world. As I understand it, we are to make disciples of all nations preaching repentance and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, that is the Gospel in the nutshell. But he is preaching a works righteousness social gospel. For example: "God chose us to be his representatives. He called us to go out, to proclaim the "good news" --to be the "good news"-- and to change the world. pg 3. or The gospel itself was born of god's vision of a changed people, challenging and transforming the prevailing values and practices or our world. Jesus called the resulting new world order the "kingdom of God" and said that is would become a reality through the lives and deeds of His followers. pg 2-3. Sounds like emergent and kingdom now philosophy to me. And that is just the introduction.

The facts and figures he gives about poverty and injustice are very compelling. His heart is in the right place, but that doesn't justify twisting the scriptures to suit his agenda. I pretty much marked all over the book making comments. If you want to read it get it from the library.

If he wants to raise money for orphans he should just come right out with it and not blame the Gospel and Christianity at large. What we need right now are preachers who understand the difference between law and gospel, and preach the true "Gospel" so that the fruits of the spirit are possible. And not works righteousness guilt in the hope that it will change people. A bad tree will not produce good fruit.

I hope that was helpful.

As an afterthought, this made me think of Mother Theresa. She toiled her whole life on behalf of the poor and yet it appears ,from her personal writings, that she had a serious crisis of faith and doubts about the existence of God. And the poor kept coming. Mr Stearns also uses a quote attributed to St. Francis, "Preach the gospel and when necessary use words." Well it has been proven that St. Francis never said this, and contrary to popular belief preached as many as 5 sermons in a day. People need to hear the "good news" and the law is not the good news. When the apostles asked Jesus what they needed to do to do the "will" of God, he told them to believe in the One He sent.

[His Bride]

Absolutely, there is "no hole in the Gospel." The Gospel is God's Word. It is perfect....The problem, as I see it, is we need to get back to reading it and practicing it, not philosophizing it!!!!

[billiefan2000]

Absolutely, there is "no hole in the Gospel." The Gospel is God's Word. It is perfect....The problem, as I see it, is we need to get back to reading it and practicing it, not philosophizing it!!!!

his bride

[His Bride]

his bride

Stuff like that really ticks me off, billiefan!!!!!!!!I know it does you too or you wouldn't be posting it!!!!!!

[OnceWasLost]

I read this book over the summer and concluded that in his book Mr. Stearns confuses "Law" and "Gospel" to make his arguments and twists scripture to support an agenda.

As with Brian McLaren in Everything Must Change, he redefines what the Gospel is to support his belief that as Christians we are expected to save the world. As I understand it, we are to make disciples of all nations preaching repentance and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, that is the Gospel in the nutshell. But he is preaching a works righteousness social gospel. For example: "God chose us to be his representatives. He called us to go out, to proclaim the "good news" --to be the "good news"-- and to change the world. pg 3. or The gospel itself was born of god's vision of a changed people, challenging and transforming the prevailing values and practices or our world. Jesus called the resulting new world order the "kingdom of God" and said that is would become a reality through the lives and deeds of His followers. pg 2-3. Sounds like emergent and kingdom now philosophy to me. And that is just the introduction.

The facts and figures he gives about poverty and injustice are very compelling. His heart is in the right place, but that doesn't justify twisting the scriptures to suit his agenda. I pretty much marked all over the book making comments. If you want to read it get it from the library.

If he wants to raise money for orphans he should just come right out with it and not blame the Gospel and Christianity at large. What we need right now are preachers who understand the difference between law and gospel, and preach the true "Gospel" so that the fruits of the spirit are possible. And not works righteousness guilt in the hope that it will change people. A bad tree will not produce good fruit.

I hope that was helpful.

As an afterthought, this made me think of Mother Theresa. She toiled her whole life on behalf of the poor and yet it appears ,from her personal writings, that she had a serious crisis of faith and doubts about the existence of God. And the poor kept coming. Mr Stearns also uses a quote attributed to St. Francis, "Preach the gospel and when necessary use words." Well it has been proven that St. Francis never said this, and contrary to popular belief preached as many as 5 sermons in a day. People need to hear the "good news" and the law is not the good news. When the apostles asked Jesus what they needed to do to do the "will" of God, he told them to believe in the One He sent.

Terrific post! I see you suffer from self loathing as do I in that you read the stuff, even though you know it's gonna make you mad. A great way to know the deceptiveness coming into the church is to know what they believe.

[Steve53]

Terrific post! I see you suffer from self loathing as do I in that you read the stuff, even though you know it's gonna make you mad. A great way to know the deceptiveness coming into the church is to know what they believe.

Not for the faint of heart at all. Kind of like tangling with atheists in many respects. - - At least with atheists you know you're dealing with wolves, new agers and emergents are the ones in sheep's clothing.

[OnceWasLost]

Not for the faint of heart at all. Kind of like tangling with atheists in many respects. - - At least with atheists you know you're dealing with wolves, new agers and emergents are the ones in sheep's clothing.

Absolutely! Direct enemies are easy to spot.

[His Bride]

Not for the faint of heart at all. Kind of like tangling with atheists in many respects. - - At least with atheists you know you're dealing with wolves, new agers and emergents are the ones in sheep's clothing.

Hence, the system that is infecting the church today. It's just plain old seductiveness, lulling dull spirits into the enemy's camp!

[Camelknees33]

Absolutely, there is "no hole in the Gospel." The Gospel is God's Word. It is perfect....The problem, as I see it, is we need to get back to reading it and practicing it, not philosophizing it!!!!

The hole he is talking about is the hole in "our" gospel not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
I am actually reading it now, and it is a very good book. The first person to post to my question stated that Stearns was more into a "works" related Christianity, but how else can you show God's love? How can we have worldly wealth and do nothing to help others? Doesn't 1 John say to the effect, and I paraphrase, "How can the love of God be in you if you do not help others when it is in your means to do so?"

I highly recommend this book. It is an eye opener.

[Camelknees33]

I read this book over the summer and concluded that in his book Mr. Stearns confuses "Law" and "Gospel" to make his arguments and twists scripture to support an agenda.

I have yet to see an instance of this. He is not promoting a "works" salvation at all. You are mistaken. As far as twisting scripture, he doesn't. The only place where I had a small issue was in the beginning when he talked about the Kingdom of Heaven, but even that issue is confusing at times for me when I read about it in the Bible, and I have been a Christian since 1986.

[Merrily]

I stand by what I said. My copy of the book is filled with notations I made as I read it.

It comes down to understanding Law vs Gospel. There is no "Our" Gospel. There is only "The Gospel", that the Apostles were to proclaim, and as Christians that we are to share: repentance and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, period. All the rest about the fruits of the spirit are works, and fall under the law. Love thy neighbor as thy self is not the Gospel, it is a summation of the law.

Now, as a true Christian once saved by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ, good works or fruit of the spirit are possible. Where do you think all the mission programs, food programs, clinics, and hospitals all around the world came from? Not to mention schools and universities. That is not to say that people who are not Christians cannot do good things, but it is not the same thing. And it is true that the scripture say faith without works is dead. So, where am I going with all of this?

The facts and statistics Mr. Stearns gives are heart breaking and true. There is no doubt about that. The causes and solutions to the problem are where things start to derail and the qualifying of believers based on it. Giving the impression that it is the fault of Christians. The immediate causes are numerous but all can be traced back to one Sin. Also if he is putting the responsibility for the solution on Christians, maybe he needs to face the fact that the number of Christians, who are truly Christians is much smaller than we all think. And, as I pointed out in my original post, he embraces the notion that, "if we all did more, we could fix everything." That is a man centered works based idea and not the Gospel we are to proclaim. You can preach that without dragging Christianity into it. But if most of the people who call themselves Christians do not even know what the Gospel is, and more and more of what is taught and preached in Churches is instruction on how to have a more fulfilling life, it is no wonder the fruit is sparse. And throwing the law at them isn't doing it.

We need the Gospel proclaimed. We need preachers doing their job in the churches and on the streets. Proclaiming the Gospel, and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. How will they know if they have not heard? Right? Jesus said his sheep know his voice, are they hearing his Word or a whole lot of other stuff instead? Are they hearing the law in such a way that convicts them of their sin and the need for repentance and hearing the gospel and what Jesus has done for them? I have had enough of all this save the world stuff that is being passed off as the Gospel, it isn't "saving" anybody and is misleading.

As a last comment, I was attending a Church that was definitely heading down the emergent social gospel path and taught among other things that "we needed to be Jesus' hand and feet." Well first of all Jesus has hands and he has feet. He doesn't need us, we need him. Secondly, after talking to members of the congregation, it was became apparent that at least half of those who attended regularly had no idea what salvation was. And yet, they all consider themselves Christians. There is the real problem, and it is only going to get worse.

We are witnessing the Apostasy, big time. Revelation does not describe how Christians save the world and feed all the poor and we all live happily ever after. But it does describe what happens to those who do not believe in the One that was sent.

Sadly, America is now as much as "mission field" as the rest of the world. No matter how many churches.

[His Bride]

I stand by what I said. My copy of the book is filled with notations I made as I read it.

It comes down to understanding Law vs Gospel. There is no "Our" Gospel. There is only "The Gospel", that the Apostles were to proclaim, and as Christians that we are to share: repentance and the forgiveness of sins through Jesus Christ, period. All the rest about the fruits of the spirit are works, and fall under the law. Love thy neighbor as thy self is not the Gospel, it is a summation of the law.

Now, as a true Christian once saved by grace thru faith in Jesus Christ, good works or fruit of the spirit are possible. Where do you think all the mission programs, food programs, clinics, and hospitals all around the world came from? Not to mention schools and universities. That is not to say that people who are not Christians cannot do good things, but it is not the same thing. And it is true that the scripture say faith without works is dead. So, where am I going with all of this?

The facts and statistics Mr. Stearns gives are heart breaking and true. There is no doubt about that. The causes and solutions to the problem are where things start to derail and the qualifying of believers based on it. Giving the impression that it is the fault of Christians. The immediate causes are numerous but all can be traced back to one Sin. Also if he is putting the responsibility for the solution on Christians, maybe he needs to face the fact that the number of Christians, who are truly Christians is much smaller than we all think. And, as I pointed out in my original post, he embraces the notion that, "if we all did more, we could fix everything." That is a man centered works based idea and not the Gospel we are to proclaim. You can preach that without dragging Christianity into it. But if most of the people who call themselves Christians do not even know what the Gospel is, and more and more of what is taught and preached in Churches is instruction on how to have a more fulfilling life, it is no wonder the fruit is sparse. And throwing the law at them isn't doing it.

We need the Gospel proclaimed. We need preachers doing their job in the churches and on the streets. Proclaiming the Gospel, and letting the Holy Spirit do His job. How will they know if they have not heard? Right? Jesus said his sheep know his voice, are they hearing his Word or a whole lot of other stuff instead? Are they hearing the law in such a way that convicts them of their sin and the need for repentance and hearing the gospel and what Jesus has done for them? I have had enough of all this save the world stuff that is being passed off as the Gospel, it isn't "saving" anybody and is misleading.

As a last comment, I was attending a Church that was definitely heading down the emergent social gospel path and taught among other things that "we needed to be Jesus' hand and feet." Well first of all Jesus has hands and he has feet. He doesn't need us, we need him. Secondly, after talking to members of the congregation, it was became apparent that at least half of those who attended regularly had no idea what salvation was. And yet, they all consider themselves Christians. There is the real problem, and it is only going to get worse.

We are witnessing the Apostasy, big time. Revelation does not describe how Christians save the world and feed all the poor and we all live happily ever after. But it does describe what happens to those who do not believe in the One that was sent.

Sadly, America is now as much as "mission field" as the rest of the world. No matter how many churches.

Excellent. There is only One Gospel, the Gospel of Jesus Christ. The truly born again are Spirit led. We do what He tells us and go where He leads us.
This is part of the Emerging sickness. It's about pride and ego....thinking that God needs us to enlarge His kingdom. Preposterous!

If a true believer fails to listen and obey that's another issue altogether.

We can expect to see much more of this as the Day is nearer.

[billiefan2000]

Stuff like that really ticks me off, billiefan!!!!!!!!I know it does you too or you wouldn't be posting it!!!!!!

it does.


while some of my christian friends are involved in good bible believing and bible preaching churches

and some go to okay at timesbut could use some more discernment type of churches




I have some christians friends who are involved with purpose-driven or emergent stuff or other bad things

so I have cause to be concerned,



especially after I have seen some troubling and disturbing transformations in some friends who have gotten involved in that stuff.


some have compromised their values and some have become universalists or other things

[Merrily]

Thank you for the back up. I was unaware of this whole emergent business when I started attending the church I mentioned in a previous post. Then as I became more educated I started to see the signs for myself. This forum has been incredibly helpful to me. I love to read and have read all sorts of stuff (McLaren, Campolo, Lucado, etc.) and figured that since I got them from a Christian bookstore they must be okay even if a little "different." Well, now my eyes have been opened.

The day I realized that half the people attending did not understand salvation and the pastor seemed okay with that it made me cry. I joined the service for the contemporary music, but ended up crying as we were all singing and I knew they were singing and had no real idea what we were singing about. Also, that particular denomination is so far down the emergent path I knew that nothing I said was going to matter. No one even called me to find out why I had stopped coming and it was not a huge group.

[His Bride]

Thank you for the back up. I was unaware of this whole emergent business when I started attending the church I mentioned in a previous post. Then as I became more educated I started to see the signs for myself. This forum has been incredibly helpful to me. I love to read and have read all sorts of stuff (McLaren, Campolo, Lucado, etc.) and figured that since I got them from a Christian bookstore they must be okay even if a little "different." Well, now my eyes have been opened.

The day I realized that half the people attending did not understand salvation and the pastor seemed okay with that it made me cry. I joined the service for the contemporary music, but ended up crying as we were all singing and I knew they were singing and had no real idea what we were singing about. Also, that particular denomination is so far down the emergent path I knew that nothing I said was going to matter. No one even called me to find out why I had stopped coming and it was not a huge group.

Most of us who post regularly here have been in your position.

[comeuphere]

As Christians, we are told to share the Gospel of Jesus Christ, not save the world. This world, as we know it, will be completely destroyed and made new by God Himself. It is wretched, corrupt, evil, and dying at a greater pace day by day. We humans cannot and will not bring about a peaceful, beautiful, and "new" world...that eventual outcome will be brought about by the Creator Himself...it is always He and not we. The good fruits our lives produce are from God and He wants those used to draw the lost to Christ Jesus. The Christian's good works points the lost not to the Christian but to Jesus Christ Himself. Ego and glorifying "self" believes man can create a perfect world through all sorts of works...faith in Christ alone says that perfect world will only come by Christ Himself.

[Betty]

As a side note:

Mother Thereasa gave indication that did accept Jesus as her Savior before she died. She was asked the week before she died if Princess Diana went to Heaven. She answerd only if she had accepted Jesus as her Savior. Which leads me to believe that Mother Thereasa did understand salvation before she died.
betty

[saved by Grace]

Not for the faint of heart at all. Kind of like tangling with atheists in many respects. - - At least with atheists you know you're dealing with wolves, new agers and emergents are the ones in sheep's clothing.

yeah,they are the most dangerous stay grounded in what the Bible says about things and remember we are among wolves.a little bit of leaven leavens the whole lump.

[eternal]

Seems my pastor is rather taken by this book written by Richard Stearns (president of World Vision US). He is starting an adult Sunday school class based on it. I had not paid too much attention to it until I recently ran across some youtube videos of Bill Hybels interviewing Mr. Stearns. As soon as I saw that, my hackles raised. Now, to be honest, I have not read the book. I'm wondering if anyone on this forum can comment about it. I don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Talk to me.......

E