Wondering about Catholics

[Chris]

Here's something I found so far, still researching: "Catholics believe the Eucharist, or Communion, is both a sacrifice and a meal. We believe in the real presence of Jesus, who died for our sins. As we receive Christ's Body and Blood, we also are nourished spiritually and brought closer to God.

Found more: How does the Eucharist help us become the Body of Christ?

We gather together in worship, not to "refuel" lives devoid of grace, but because we need to celebrate all the grace-filled moments of our lives, which are so easily overlooked or ignored. We gather at Eucharist to be challenged to deeper awareness of what God is doing in our lives, in this world, all week long.

We have to keep remembering to ask the questions: "Who is at the table? Who is around the table?" as well as the question, "Who is on the table?" The Catechism of the Catholic Church quotes a moving passage in which St. Augustine relates the Body of Christ in the Eucharist (on the altar) to the Body of Christ that is the Church (at and around the altar).

Says Augustine at the turn of the fifth century: "If you are the body and members of Christ, then it is your sacrament which is placed on the table of the Lord; it is your sacrament that you receive. To that which you are, you respond: 'Amen' ('Yes, it is true!'), and by responding to it you assent to it. For you hear the words 'The Body of Christ,' and respond 'Amen.' Be then a member of the Body of Christ that your Amen may be true" (#1396).

I haven't found the church's origin of the Eucharist but if you "bing" Eucharist you will find a lot of resources.

Lots of resources for you here at this link that explain the false teachings of the cult of Rome.

http://www.raptureforums.com/RomanCatholicism/index.cfm

[Buzzardhut]

Catholic rules (canons) about Christian salvation:
http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/trent.htm

CANON 9: "If any one says, that by Faith Alone the sinner is Justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema (damned forever)."

CANON 11: "If any one saith, that men are justified, either by the sole imputation of the justice of Christ, or by the sole remission of sins, to the exclusion of the grace and the charity which is poured forth in their hearts by the Holy Ghost, and is inherent in them; or even that the grace, whereby we are justified, is only the favour of God; let him be anathema (damned forever)."

CANON 12: "If any sinner shall say that Justifying Faith is nothing else than full Confidence in the Divine Mercy pardoning Sins of Jesus Christ, or that it is that Confidence Alone by which we are Justified ... let him be accursed"

Canon 14: "If any one says, that one is Truly Absolved from his sins and is Justified, because he assuredly believes himself absolved and justified; or, that no one is truly justified but he who believes himself justified; and that, by this Faith Alone, absolution and justification are effected; let him be anathema (damned forever)."

Canon 23: "lf any one says that once justified one can sin no more, nor lose grace, and that therefore he that falls and sins was never truly justified; or, on the other hand, that he is able, during his whole life, to avoid all sins, even those that are venial,- except by a special privilege from God, as the Church holds in regard of the Blessed Virgin Mary; let him be anathema (damned forever)."

Canon 24: "If any one says that justice received is not preserved and also increased before God through Good Works; but that the said works are merely the fruits and signs of Justification obtained, but not a cause of the increase thereof; let him be anathema (damned forever)."

Canon 30: "If any one says that, after the grace of Justification has been received, to every penitent sinner the guilt is remitted, and the debt of eternal punishment is blotted out in such a way that there remains not any debt of temporal punishment to be discharged either in this world, or in the next in Purgatory, before the entrance to the kingdom of heaven can be opened (to him); let him be anathema (damned forever)."

Canon 33: "If any one says that Catholic doctrines and teachings on Justification, by this holy Synod inset forth in this present decree, the glory of God, or the merits of our Lord Jesus Christ are in any way derogated from, and not rather that the truth of our faith, and the glory in fine of God and of Jesus Christ are rendered (more) illustrious; let him be anathema (damned forever).

In the Catholic church the Eucharist is one of God's mysteries. I'm not smart enuff to know where they got it from but I'll do some research. The bread and wine does not give salvation, it is a sign of our Faith in Jesus, just like baptism. It is my understanding that, like the fundamentalist Lutherans, the Roman Catholics now believed we are saved by Grace alone. In other words, Faith.

http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Sacramentalism.pdf

[God's Trombone]

I don't think I am better or smarter. I thought of Jesus as my savior and I believed He died for my sin, probably much like your Catholic friends. But I wasn't saved. I was lost and condemned. But I believed in the blood atonement. That's my point.

For those looking for simple, the gospel is faith alone in the work of Jesus alone by God's grace alone....can't add to it, can't take away from it. The difference between the True and false gospels can be summed up by one word - ALONE.

The gospel tells the good news of an exchange of your sin, for the righteousness of Jesus. We have to come to Him to make that exchange....not any other mediator. And we have to come with empty hands and a willingness to turn from our ways to His ways.

So hope that's simple enough.

And for those that can handle a little more detail, the reason I wasn't saved is because I was not trusting in Jesus alone.
I wasn't approaching the cross by faith, but by works.
I wasn't trusting in His work as sufficient.
I wasn't trusting in His work as finished. I thought I had to add to it through my good behavior and by participating in the ongoing sacrifice of the Mass for sin.
I thought I had to be righteous on my own, never understanding that I would never be righteous or good enough no matter what I did.
I thought I had to take the sacraments as a means to receive God's grace and favor - not realizing that grace came from God by His mercy and will, not through men based on my action.
I thought I had to do penance for my own sin.
I thought I had to go through men to reach God.
I had a wrong idea of who Jesus was and why He alone was sinless and uniquely able to mediate for me before God.
I had a wrong idea of what Jesus accomplished and my role in putting Him on the cross.
I didn't take my sin seriously and so didn't see my desperate need for Jesus as Lord of my life nor to be holy as God is Holy.
I didn't understand the transforming POWER of God. I tried to imitate the life of Christ under my own power not realizing I needed to be a new creature from the inside out. A supernatural work of God.
I didn't know or understand God's Word.
I had head knowledge, a moral life, and some intellectual knowledge, but no act of God in my life to change me internally.

And no, I don't believe someone indwelt by the Holy Spirit, could participate in the idolatry of the Eucharist, the idolatry of prayer to Mary or dead saints, the denial of the sufficienct/finished work of Jesus Christ in the Mass, submit to the authority of a false priesthood, trust in tradition over the Word of God, and on and on and on. The Holy Spirit brings believers into ALL TRUTH. The timing might be different for each, but those born again will be brought out of the Catholic Church. And no one will hear a saving gospel in the Catholic Church, they will hear it somewhere else.....I assume its the same for Mormons and other religious cult participants......

As another ex-Catholic I can say "amen" to all of that post.

Hi Stucky,

This board isn't perfect... because none of us are. Some of our threads end up as messy calamities. Some start out that way. There is a lot of Christ on and in this board... it is daily church for me. I've been personally attacked a time or two when posters took my views that they disagreed with personally and I've seen others attacked in that same way. I believe I have the right to ignore any posts and/or questions that are directed to me if I choose to, and that's exactly what I do. In that way I don't let them get under my skin. The questions I do ignore sometimes get responded to by others.

I agree with you that there will be a great many souls who attended churches that weren't teaching the truth, but lies, who will be with us in heaven. Our thoughts and views are often limited by our own personal experiences. I've spent a lot of time in South America where most of the population that claims to be Christian are lifelong catholics. I believe there will be hundreds of thousands if not millions of ex-South American catholics in heaven. I say ex because they won't be catholic anymore after they die or are raptured... but they will be until that moment in their lives. The multitudes in South America are dirt poor and they tend to find God because they so need him right now, just to survive. The faith of the poor campesino farmer believer in South America is amazing. In the USA the percentages of people attending catholic churches who are saved is likely quite small.

For those who can't imagine a true believer staying in an errant church (like the catholic one)... will, there are as many reasons for the decisions people make as there are people. We are a complex creature, weak and vulnerable, living in decomposing bodies. The familiar is comforting enough for many that there are many who will not move on. More disconcerting to me is the protestant side of the equation that splinters and divides so quickly that you can't keep up with it... and now, it seems, most established churches have left the faith, regardless of the name that defines the history of that church. One is little better than the other.

What really matters is each of us. Are we saved or unsaved? Have we been washed in the blood of the lamb? If we have been, our futures are secure, at least the futures of those of us living in the church age. It is good if the church we attend teaches the truth, if it does, we're fortunate.

Jude 1:3: Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I felt the necessity to write to you appealing that you contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints.

2 Corinthians 10:5: We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ

As a former Jehovah's Witness, my hat is off to my brothers and sisters on this board who are contending earnestly for the faith. Destroying lofty speculations that are raised up against the knowledge of God, as Paul did, is not unloving, but absolutely necessary, especially in these days of increasing cultism and apostasy.

I suppose some unbelievers have been simply "loved" into the kingdom, but others, like me, who were believing and preaching "another gospel" (Gal. 1:8-9) needed their spiritual butts kicked before they were able to repent and believe.

And now, as we grow to maturity in knowledge and sanctification, we need more than just the milk of the Word:

Hebrews 5:14: But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

I've been greatly blessed over the past year that I've been coming here to this RR board. Probably a day doesn't go by that I don't learn something here from those "who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil." To those who have been so trained, keep up the good work. The Bride needs you more than she often realizes.

How about hearing from anyone who has "left Catholicism" but attends mass with their spouse /family members/friends without participating as a "Catholic."

Rhetorically, I would like to ask: Are their some who are considered "practicing Catholics" whom nevertheless don't "participate" fully in "Catholic doctrine?"

[Stucky]

It seems that one of the main differences from "you and us" is that you would have people stay in false religious cults, etc. so as long as "some" of them are saved. Recognize the fact that those saved in these various cults are a vast minority of the cult who ARE NOT following what the cult teaches. This is why we call people out of the RCC, JW, Mormons, SDA, etc. For a true Christian to stay in a cult is like mixing oil and water, they don't go together.

As for your wife, where she is right now is between her and the Lord. The question you need to ask yourself right now is am I relying solely in the completed work of the Lord on the Cross? If so, and you are still in the RCC, you need to get out. The Lord tells them in Reveletion to "ome out of her my people, lest you take her plagues!" Jesus doesn't want people to stay in cults.

Chris, you're wrong again. Please stop saying what I think or want when you don't know. I've never said I want people to stay in "false religious cults". I gave a response as to why they do. I've always said Catholics should leave that particular church. Also, I have never been Catholic. I am Southern Baptist. I don't need to ask my self that question because I have been saved by grace alone. My Faith is my salvation. Please stop pontificating about others salvation when that is between them and God.

[Stucky]

People who pray to Mary are going to Heaven?

Jesus says nobody comes to the Father except through Him. John 14:6 We cannot pray to anyone, absolutely no one except God the Father through His Son Jesus Christ, to pray to any other is idolatry.

Where does Jesus say specifically that if you are a believer if you sin you are damned? Why do you slap Him in the face and say that his sacrifice on the cross wasn't good enough to pay the penalty for ALL our sins? Change the word "cannot" above to "should not". Why are you all so quick to condemn? Why not sow the seed of salvation with love. Instead of saying "you're going to hell if you do this or that" say "You're going to Heaven if you have Faith, if you truly believe in Jesus completed sacrifice on the cross". "Come to Jesus for salvation, the penalty for ALL your sins has been paid on the cross, by the blood of the lamb, once, for all. Believe and you will be saved. End of story. You will still sin but your sin is covered in Jesus blood.

Put all the cute smiley faces anywhere in here you want, the words don't change.

ATTENTION ALL: Please READ my words. Quit telling me what I need to do to receive salvation. Jesus told me all I need to know for that. "Believe and you will be saved" "Anyone who calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved". Go save someone else. I am saved, my wife was saved, our Catholic friends and relatives were saved, my Mormon relatives are saved. Even the JW that comes to my home to try to "save" me is saved. All of them answered my question to them in the affirmative. That question is: "Do you believe in the atoning blood of Jesus. In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the penalty for your sins." Now please give me a break.

[harvest]

ATTENTION ALL: Please READ my words. Quit telling me what I need to do to receive salvation. Jesus told me all I need to know for that. "Believe and you will be saved" "Anyone who calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved". Go save someone else. I am saved, my wife was saved, our Catholic friends and relatives were saved, my Mormon relatives are saved. Even the JW that comes to my home to try to "save" me is saved. All of them answered my question to them in the affirmative. That question is: "Do you believe in the atoning blood of Jesus. In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the penalty for your sins." Now please give me a break.

Try asking a few more questions with your friends and family...
How do we get to heaven?
Is Jesus God?
When we sin what should we do?
Are you born again?
Do you believe in the Trinity?

I think you will get some interesting answers to these questions. Just because one may say they believe in the atoning blood of Jesus doesn't mean they have received Him as Lord and given their life to Him.

The JW, Mormon, and etc. all say they believe in Jesus, but the Jesus they believe in is not the God of the bible.
I've had JW's show me a flyer with a list of things on why a Catholic is not saved. They all start by saying they believe in Jesus and the cross.
But the bible clearly says that, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. " Mat 7:21

The religions you just mentioned are all mutually exclusive and they teach that you must belong to them to be saved. Kinda contradicting to the grace of God and salvation by faith that you yourself mentioned.

[Stucky]

Try asking a few more questions with your friends and family...
How do we get to heaven?
Is Jesus God?
When we sin what should we do?
Are you born again?
Do you believe in the Trinity?

ATTENTION: Not ONE of these things has to do with Salvation. Show me the Scripture that says if someone doesn't give the answer YOU think is correct that they are damned.

"I think you will get some interesting answers to these questions. Just because one may say they believe in the atoning blood of Jesus doesn't mean they have received Him as Lord and given their life to Him."

ATTENTION: How do I know YOU have? Just because you say you have doesn't mean you truly have. That is not up to YOU or to me. That is God's decision to make. He knows the heart. Not you. Not me.

"The JW, Mormon, and etc. all say they believe in Jesus, but the Jesus they believe in is not the God of the bible."

ATTENTION: How do YOU know? Can you see into their hearts?

"I've had JW's show me a flyer with a list of things on why a Catholic is not saved. They all start by saying they believe in Jesus and the cross.
But the bible clearly says that, "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. " Mat 7:21"

ATTENTION: Irrelevant. I had someone show me a pamphlet that says Jesus is coming back in a flying saucer...so what?

That was a good Scripture citation but it has nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion.

"The religions you just mentioned are all mutually exclusive and they teach that you must belong to them to be saved. Kinda contradicting to the grace of God and salvation by faith that you yourself mentioned."

ATTENTION: So what? If I believe you MUST be Southern Baptist to go to Heaven how does that effect my salvation? If I have Faith in the Atoning Blood of Jesus Christ I will go to Heaven. I'll just be surprised to see people from other religions there I guess. (That was sarcasm)

There you go again, making Salvation more difficult than it is. Quit adding to what the Scriptures say about salvation. Read my lips...FAITH...plain and simple. Why do you think YOU were appointed by God to damn souls on Earth? You quote things about other religions that you don't know to be facts but are just hearsay. as long as you are going to make this a personal attack ("Kinda contradicting to the Grace of God and Salvation by Faith that you yourself mentioned" et al) then I'm going to respond in kind, as I am now.

[Chris]

Chris, you're wrong again. Please stop saying what I think or want when you don't know. I've never said I want people to stay in "false religious cults". I gave a response as to why they do. I've always said Catholics should leave that particular church. Also, I have never been Catholic. I am Southern Baptist. I don't need to ask my self that question because I have been saved by grace alone. My Faith is my salvation. Please stop pontificating about others salvation when that is between them and God.

Then quit pontificating the RCC and it's unbiblical and cultic materials, teachings, and traditions. I've already said that the issue of salvation is between your wife and the Lord. Mama church (RCC) can't save. Only the Lord can. This is why we call people out of false religious systems. It is people like you who want to come on here and try to justify RCC false religious system of grace PLUS works as well as kinds of silly non-biblical junk like praying to Mary.

[Chris]

Where does Jesus say specifically that if you are a believer if you sin you are damned? Why do you slap Him in the face and say that his sacrifice on the cross wasn't good enough to pay the penalty for ALL our sins? Change the word "cannot" above to "should not". Why are you all so quick to condemn? Why not sow the seed of salvation with love. Instead of saying "you're going to hell if you do this or that" say "You're going to Heaven if you have Faith, if you truly believe in Jesus completed sacrifice on the cross". "Come to Jesus for salvation, the penalty for ALL your sins has been paid on the cross, by the blood of the lamb, once, for all. Believe and you will be saved. End of story. You will still sin but your sin is covered in Jesus blood.

Put all the cute smiley faces anywhere in here you want, the words don't change.

ATTENTION ALL: Please READ my words. Quit telling me what I need to do to receive salvation. Jesus told me all I need to know for that. "Believe and you will be saved" "Anyone who calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved". Go save someone else. I am saved, my wife was saved, our Catholic friends and relatives were saved, my Mormon relatives are saved. Even the JW that comes to my home to try to "save" me is saved. All of them answered my question to them in the affirmative. That question is: "Do you believe in the atoning blood of Jesus. In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the penalty for your sins." Now please give me a break.

ATTENTION: You can say your RCC relatives were saved, your Mormon relatives were saved, etc. Your words and declarations don't mean one iota of anything when it comes to determining salvation. It seems to me that you are just here to promote all kinds of false and pagan religions like the RCC, Mormons, and Buddhists. You are are pretty much saying that it's OK if people practice all kinds of ungodly and satanic rituals as long as they believe in Jesus.

Christian cults take the basics of christianity and then they add the special "seasoning" to it to make it what they want it to be. The RCC adds "works" to grace. The Mormons believe in a a different Jesus and wear funky underwear. The Masons bow down to every pagan idol they can find and end up worshipping the devil. satan is behind every pagan religion.

The Bible says that even the demons believe, and they surely aren't saved. Stucky, you seem to be "stuck" in pagan nonsense and it appears that you are not able to face the fact that if your RCC wife did not believe in faith alone in Jesus Christ, then there is a chance she placed her faith elsewhere. And placing your faith in anything but the Lord Jesus Christ will earn one a swift ride to Hell. That's not judgment, that is the Word of God. where your wife is now is between her and the Lord. He knows her heart.

However, we will not be promoting cults and running around here saying that if you are involved in them that is fine and dandy. so far, you have said your relatives involved in false, pagan, and ungodly religious cults are all saved, etc. This is basically refuting the Bible. We won't have anymore of that here.

[Chris]

There you go again, making Salvation more difficult than it is. Quit adding to what the Scriptures say about salvation. Read my lips...FAITH...plain and simple. Why do you think YOU were appointed by God to damn souls on Earth? You quote things about other religions that you don't know to be facts but are just hearsay. as long as you are going to make this a personal attack ("Kinda contradicting to the Grace of God and Salvation by Faith that you yourself mentioned" et al) then I'm going to respond in kind, as I am now.

You make personal attacks against posters and violate the board rules and you'll take a swift ride to forum hades by having your posting rights revoked. You're pushing your luck here.

Your promotion of the RCC and Mormonism will not be tolerated either. I've given you links showing the errors of these false religious systems. You'd be wise to read them.

[m2pinggggggg]

Hi my friend!
Man has made religions for quite a long time. Religions try to make us work, they will not get us to the relationship that we receive when we except Jesus. The one relationship for the Bride,…..those who put their faith in Christ, repented of their sin and will have everlasting life with Jesus in heaven. The problem Rich...men decide to muddy the waters. Would you agree that the Bible is God's Holy inerrant word? That Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father? That the Holy Spirit indwells in us as believers, that in the very moment that we accepted Christ, repented of our sin, and was baptized, (not that baptism saved us, but reflects the death, burial, and the resurrection of Jesus) and returned to His Father...and is now seated on the right side of God, can't be tampered with. God is love. He also is just. The copy-cat religions have tried to duplicate the simplistic gospel that I just shared with you. Did you know that the cults, which there are many, have the same name for God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, except their explaining about these personages come out in many flavors? Three main line cults believe that Christ returned to the Father and changed back to an angel? My point? To know the real Jesus, you have to know the word of God. We imitate Christ always in sharing to another person, these are basic truths Rich. There’s double talk and meaning behind good intentional men and women when they add or subtract from the Bible. You apparently know what Jesus did for you and me. Please know there’s different maturity levels that can teach Christ word on this board, how they convey to any of us the full gospel of Christ, and will make us teachable to false doctrine that we have picked up over the years.. or make us defensive. We older dogs teachable Rich? By God’s grace I stand to be always teachable. My hero? Just give me Jesus!

[Stucky]

Then quit pontificating the RCC and it's unbiblical and cultic materials, teachings, and traditions. I've already said that the issue of salvation is between your wife and the Lord. Mama church (RCC) can't save. Only the Lord can. This is why we call people out of false religious systems. It is people like you who want to come on here and try to justify RCC false religious system of grace PLUS works as well as kinds of silly non-biblical junk like praying to Mary.

Wrong again Chris. I'm not pontificationg the RCC I'm pontificating believers that happen to be in the RCC. I've never said "Mama church" can save. "People like me" come on here and justify Salvation through Faith alone without damning everyone else in the world. If I may use your words "People like you come on here" and tell others they are damned if they don't add a whole bunch of things to what God requires for Salvation. Quit damning people and just spread the Gospel without pointing at people and telling them they are going to hell because they don't meet YOUR standards.
You don't read what I have said. Read my lips: WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE. I keep saying that over and over and over. How can you miss it? Also, if I want to pray to Mary for intercession (which I don't) that is between me and God. Not YOU. It isn't the thing to do but God forgives me for it just like He forgives me for looking at a pretty girl and thinking impure thoughts. He has not appointed YOU judge and jury Chris. (Insert whatever emotican you want here)

[harvest]

There you go again, making Salvation more difficult than it is. Quit adding to what the Scriptures say about salvation. Read my lips...FAITH...plain and simple. Why do you think YOU were appointed by God to damn souls on Earth? You quote things about other religions that you don't know to be facts but are just hearsay. as long as you are going to make this a personal attack ("Kinda contradicting to the Grace of God and Salvation by Faith that you yourself mentioned" et al) then I'm going to respond in kind, as I am now.

I'll let the bible answer that...
Jhn 1:12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name
Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."
Jam 2:19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe--and tremble!

I asked very important questions in my other post which are related to someone being saved. Here they are again...
How do we get to heaven? Often you will hear people say believe in Jesus AND....
Is Jesus God? You would think this would be an easy one, but apparently not.
When we sin what should we do? Again, the answer should be none other than come to Jesus.
Are you born again? Yes, Jesus did say you must be born again.
Do you believe in the Trinity? Goes along with, "Is Jesus God?".

You can accuse me of adding to scripture, but I've listed scripture in support of what I have said. I didn't disagree with you on faith for salvation, I merely asked you to probe for more answers to those questions I listed, in order to get an understanding of what Jesus they truly believe in.
As for heresay, there are plenty of materials all over the internet and given out by those other religions that you're defending.
Here are a few quotes...
Mormon official website-"When you are baptized by one with priesthood authority given by God, you receive a remission of your sins."
JW official website-"Only a little flock of 144,000 go to heaven and rule with Christ" & "Jesus’ life corresponded to that of “the first man Adam,” whom God created as a perfect human."... "Yet, some argue that Jesus is not simply the Son of God but that he is actually God himself."

Quit taking my posts as a personal attack and read them for what they are...a point of view from God's Word v.s. the point of view from religious doctrine.

[Chris]

Wrong again Chris. I'm not pontificationg the RCC I'm pontificating believers that happen to be in the RCC. I've never said "Mama church" can save. "People like me" come on here and justify Salvation through Faith alone without damning everyone else in the world. If I may use your words "People like you come on here" and tell others they are damned if they don't add a whole bunch of things to what God requires for Salvation. Quit damning people and just spread the Gospel without pointing at people and telling them they are going to hell because they don't meet YOUR standards.
You don't read what I have said. Read my lips: WE ARE SAVED BY FAITH ALONE. I keep saying that over and over and over. How can you miss it? Also, if I want to pray to Mary for intercession (which I don't) that is between me and God. Not YOU. It isn't the thing to do but God forgives me for it just like He forgives me for looking at a pretty girl and thinking impure thoughts. He has not appointed YOU judge and jury Chris. (Insert whatever emotican you want here)

Wrong again Stucky. You've never gotten that through your head that it's not my standards, it's God's standards. Salvation is through grace through faith alone. Not grace PLUS (insert whatever each cult believes in addition to the true Christianity).

We don't judge people here, we warn them that salvation is by grace through faith. We warn people to stay out of false and cultic religions like the RCC, Mormons, JWs, SDAs, etc. If you add to the Gospel, you will not be saved. That's God's words, not mine.

Here's an article you need to read and one that lays out what exactly it is that makes us saved, and note that anything added to what Jesus said is man made like the grace PLUS works Gospel of the cult of Rome. Not relying on the Gospel as taught by God is relying on a man made Gospel and that leads many on the wide path of destruction. no judgment here, just the truth.

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/eter...e-whole-story/

[Chris]

So far in this thread we have shown things taught by Rome that are completely incompatible with Scripture. You insist that we are all the same, yet you do not address the dangerously unscriptural differences between orthodoxy and catholicism.

Why do you avoid specifics and not address the obvious differences?

Because he's "Stucky". Stuck in false and cultic teachings and practices.

[Chris]

Okay Chris, I get it now. You have power and like to wield it. If someone disagrees with you they are wrong but if YOU disagree you can say whatever you like. Go ahead and ban me. That is your power to do. Then you will be free to lie and threaten and say anything you want without fear of contradiction. The good people here will konw you for what you are, a petty tyrant that wants to show off his intellect and look down on anyone that disagrees with him. You can't be satisfied preaching the Gospel and letting others discern it's application, you have the mind of a cult leader. "It's my way or the highway. Do not disagree with me or you will be shown the door".

Do your worst Chris, I'm just a petty little poster without any recourse but to go elsewhere. Life will go on after my ban.

It's not about power, it's about standing up for truth and the Lord's Word. We will not promote false religious systems and cults on the board. You seem to want to tell us that all RCC, Mormons, etc. while following man made Gospels will be saved. That is not what the Lord says. He says that the way to eternal life is through the narrow gate, while many choose to take the wide path of destruction instead of eternal life. This is why the false religious systems and pagan religions of the RCC, Buddhism, Hindus, etc. are all in error and do not promote the true Gospel. Rome promotes the traditions of men over God's word. Which is nothing new, man has been trying to earn his own salvation since the beginning of time.

I think you need some time off from the board here for 3 months due to your hostile behavior, refusal to listen to the truth, promoting of cults and false religious systems, argumentative cop mentality, etc. etc. etc.

After 3 months you can try joining the board again and participate in genuine fellowship without all the other garbage (cults and false religions) and argumentative (hostile) spirit. You haven't listened to a word anyone has tried to tell you here.

[Buzzardhut]

Where does Jesus say specifically that if you are a believer if you sin you are damned?

No one is saying Jesus says that, there are different understandings of what believe actually means.
to believe in scripture means total dependence upon
catholic def. of believe is acknowledging something exists,
you need total dependence, not just acknowledgement
the devil also believes Jesus exists but he is not saved.

Why do you slap Him in the face and say that his sacrifice on the cross wasn't good enough to pay the penalty for ALL our sins?

Jesus' sacrifice through his blood atonement and his resurrection saves.
Catholicism slaps Jesus by re-sacrificing Him at every mass and replacing his eternal blood atonement with a bread and wine ritual

Change the word "cannot" above to "should not". Why are you all so quick to condemn? Why not sow the seed of salvation with love. Instead of saying "you're going to hell if you do this or that" say "You're going to Heaven if you have Faith,

we are quick to tell the truth, what does faith really mean? Bible faith is receiving and believing the words of God and acting upon them

if you truly believe in Jesus completed sacrifice on the cross". "Come to Jesus for salvation, the penalty for ALL your sins has been paid on the cross, by the blood of the lamb, once, for all. Believe and you will be saved. End of story. You will still sin but your sin is covered in Jesus blood.

We do not receive true salvation by participating in cultic group rituals, the wheat and wine harvest of Catholic sun worship is not the way to heaven, acknowledging Jesus' death on the cross is not completed salvation, personally receiving Jesus' blood atonement to cover your sin(s) and placing full trust upon that for (past, present, future) sin, and nothing else, is the step to salvation - Catholicism condemns fully trusting in Jesus' blood atonement for salvation because it takes away from their works and rituals for salvation, Catholicism does not guarantee a person can be saved before death, they must wait until Jesus judges their good works after death to outweigh their bad works, which is why they ask mary to help them out
they do not believe Jesus can help them fully and deny that the Holy Spirit can seal and deliver them.

Quit telling me what I need to do to receive salvation. Jesus told me all I need to know for that. "Believe and you will be saved" "Anyone who calls upon the name of Jesus will be saved". Go save someone else. I am saved, my wife was saved, our Catholic friends and relatives were saved, my Mormon relatives are saved. Even the JW that comes to my home to try to "save" me is saved. All of them answered my question to them in the affirmative. That question is: "Do you believe in the atoning blood of Jesus. In other words, do you believe that Jesus paid the penalty for your sins." Now please give me a break.

you are not understanding what believe really means

[His Bride]

All I know is that if we begin to include the false religions with their false teachings and call all of their false Jesus' our Jesus of the Bible, we will end up with an ecumenical forum......If that day ever happens, then I'm gone!

Stucky, I can understand your thoughts and questions because of your family members' affiliations. But, even though we all have loved ones who belong to false religions, we cannot compromise the Word of God.

And not everyone who believes in Jesus is placing their belief in the right One, the Only Son of God, the Jesus of the Bible. Too many are reinventing Jesus.

This cannot happen on Rapture Ready.

[God's Lamb]

BuzzardHut....thank you for all the information concerning Catholicism.

I come from a long line of "Irish Catholics". It stopped with my Mother. She was raised in Catholicism all her life until she married my father. He didn't want us raised Catholic. Reasons I won't go into. Although she loved the Lord, she felt something was wrong, but couldn't put her finger on it.

We both took a seven year course in studying the Bible together. That's when she really understood that there was a difference. Studying the Bible open her eyes up that Catholicism was wrong.

I ran across a book called, "The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, which I gave to my mother to read, first. She said, it answered many questions for her, and was truly a blessing for her to read the book. I read it after she finished it...it was great!

The the book that I am reading now is New Age Bible Versions by G. A. Riplinger, I am half way though the book and I am shocked and stunned by the corruption and disception of these new Bible and Manuscripts. They are just plain evil.

I have many friends who were raised Catholic and left the Catholic Church. One happens to be one of my dearest best friend. I have learned so much from her. I liken the Catholic leaving the Chruch like a smoker givng up cigretts due to cancer.... they both can come on like a "pitbull" not letting go of you until you see ALL the dangers and convert. They are both doing out of truth and love!!!

My friend told me that it was hard for her in the beginning to leave the Church, becasue the Catholic Church claimed to be the "only" way of Salvation and if she left, she'd be Lost doomed to Hell. When you've had generations of this passed on down, it is hard to leave.

I could be wrong on this, but I believe there are some Catholics that are saved. Why? Because they have studied the Bible, too, and that they do not accept all the Catholic's teachings. I also believe, that God will bring them out, if they continue to listen to the Holy Spirit's wooing and leading them. It seems to take Catholics a lot longer to surrender to the Lordship of the Lord.

Today, the Church is moving to come under the Roman unbrella, so many evangelicals, Protestants, have joined the Emergent Church, that we are seeing more and more Idolarty with the Prostestant Churches.

I think we will all be surprised when we get to heaven. Who's in and Who's out.

Muslims and Catholics have things in common.....they both adore Mary....both use beads.

God Bless <><

[Buzzardhut]

BuzzardHut....thank you for all the information concerning Catholicism.

I come from a long line of "Irish Catholics". It stopped with my Mother. She was raised in Catholicism all her life until she married my father. He didn't want us raised Catholic. Reasons I won't go into. Although she loved the Lord, she felt something was wrong, but couldn't put her finger on it.

We both took a seven year course in studying the Bible together. That's when she really understood that there was a difference. Studying the Bible open her eyes up that Catholicism was wrong.

I ran across a book called, "The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop, which I gave to my mother to read, first. She said, it answered many questions for her, and was truly a blessing for her to read the book. I read it after she finished it...it was great!

The the book that I am reading now is New Age Bible Versions by G. A. Riplinger, I am half way though the book and I am shocked and stunned by the corruption and disception of these new Bible and Manuscripts. They are just plain evil.

I have many friends who were raised Catholic and left the Catholic Church. One happens to be one of my dearest best friend. I have learned so much from her. I liken the Catholic leaving the Chruch like a smoker givng up cigretts due to cancer.... they both can come on like a "pitbull" not letting go of you until you see ALL the dangers and convert. They are both doing out of truth and love!!!

My friend told me that it was hard for her in the beginning to leave the Church, becasue the Catholic Church claimed to be the "only" way of Salvation and if she left, she'd be Lost doomed to Hell. When you've had generations of this passed on down, it is hard to leave.

I could be wrong on this, but I believe there are some Catholics that are saved. Why? Because they have studied the Bible, too, and that they do not accept all the Catholic's teachings. I also believe, that God will bring them out, if they continue to listen to the Holy Spirit's wooing and leading them. It seems to take Catholics a lot longer to surrender to the Lordship of the Lord.

Today, the Church is moving to come under the Roman unbrella, so many evangelicals, Protestants, have joined the Emergent Church, that we are seeing more and more Idolarty with the Prostestant Churches.

I think we will all be surprised when we get to heaven. Who's in and Who's out.

Muslims and Catholics have things in common.....they both adore Mary....both use beads.

God Bless <><

I praise God some people actually get it