Pastor says talking about rapture is not important

[JoelH]

Your point?

Your post and warning above carries no authority because your judgment on our teaching is running against the Bible. They are thus merely man's (I'm being conventional in the use of "man" even though I know you aren't) opinion, not a "thus saith the Lord" indictment on us.

I would be tempted to add in words like "the Lord rebuke you!" in your reply, but I don't have such authority - I'm just a redeemed sinner and not the Lord Jesus Himself, and I only do what 1 Peter 3:15-16 instructs us tio do, "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have".

[Lucinda]

Romans 12:9 Love must be sincere.Hate what is evil,cling to what is good.
Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love.Honor one another above yourselves.
Romans 12:11 Never be lacking in zeal,but keep your spiritual fervor,serving the Lord.
Romans 12:12 Be joyful in hope,patient in affliction,faithful in prayer.
Romans 12:13 Share with God's people who are in need.Practice hospitality.
Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you;bless and do not curse.
Romans 12:15 Rejoice with those who rejoice,mourn with those who mourn.
Romans 12:16 Live in harmony with one another.Do not be proud,but willing to associate with people of low postion.Do not be conceited.

This is how Christians are to act towards one another.

[Lucinda]

Your post and warning above carries no authority because your judgment on our teaching is running against the Bible. They are thus merely man's (I'm being conventional in the use of "man" even though I know you aren't) opinion, not a "thus saith the Lord" indictment on us.

I would be tempted to add in words like "the Lord rebuke you!" in your reply, but I don't have such authority - I'm just a redeemed sinner and not the Lord Jesus Himself, and I only do what 1 Peter 3:15-16 instructs us tio do, "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have".

No my teaching is in the Bible.What I go against is you all here claiming to know what a preacher needs to preach on rather what the Holy Spirit leads him to preach on.And no you have no authority over the Word of God when it's being misused!

[steph n]

Wow, I just had to jump in here- I just logged on, read through ALL of this thread, and if I may say so- there is miscommunication going on (obviously)!!
OK- One camp is saying we should not judge the preacher for preaching on whatever he felt led to preach on that day... and the other camp is saying he can preach on whatever he feels led to preach on that day, but he must not say that the rapture is not important and he won't preach on it at all...
RIGHT???


Sometimes it's impossible to really understand each other without being face to face or hearing each other's voices....
That's my 2-cents worth!

[JoelH]

Wow, I just had to jump in here- I just logged on, read through ALL of this thread, and if I may say so- there is miscommunication going on (obviously)!!
OK- One camp is saying we should not judge the preacher for preaching on whatever he felt led to preach on that day... and the other camp is saying he can preach on whatever he feels led to preach on that day, but he must not say that the rapture is not important and he won't preach on it at all...
RIGHT???


Sometimes it's impossible to really understand each other without being face to face or hearing each other's voices....
That's my 2-cents worth!

It is close but not quite. One camp is saying that God will lead teachers to teach according to His will, even to the point telling the congregation not bother with portions of His own Word.

We say that God's Word doesn't support such position per se, and all preachers must cover all parts of the Bible whether in or out of season, and the other camp responded that we will be subject to God's judgment because we judge the heart of the preachers like Osteen or Warren who says "not all of God's Word should a believer know" - they keep putting forth the position of "who knows, maybe Osteen is indeed called by God to preach...".

I must gently but firmly reject the position as biblical. This is nothing but justifying rebellion against God's will, supposedly under His name.

[steph n]

OK- got it! And by the way, I'm from the camp that believes a pastor is called to preach the whole bible, and nothing but the bible!!

[SavedSam]

I would be tempted to add in words like "the Lord rebuke you!" in your reply, but I don't have such authority - I'm just a redeemed sinner and not the Lord Jesus Himself, and I only do what 1 Peter 3:15-16 instructs us tio do, "always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have".

Thank you Joel for this timely scripture. I hope the Rapture happens today!

Sam

[SavedSam]

OK- got it! And by the way, I'm from the camp that believes a pastor is called to preach the whole bible, and nothing but the bible!!

I just have to Amen!! this! The Rapture is the Hope that I share all the time to those that are born-again. 1Thes 4:18 tells us to "encourage one another with these words". To me they are pretty important! Why would a preachers withhold this hope??

Titus 2:13-14

Sam

[texasgirl]

OK- got it! And by the way, I'm from the camp that believes a pastor is called to preach the whole bible, and nothing but the bible!!

I believe that too!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop saying that we don't believe a pastor can pick and choose that is not what we are saying.

Listen to me......What I am saying is God gives the pastor his message. Is his message on Revelations or Endtimes? Maybe, Maybe not.
Does that make him less a Christian?
NO!
Why? Because you or I don't dictate what a pastor will preach or speak on. God does. Sometime in this pastors ministry he may call on him to preach it. Maybe next month, maybe next year........you don't know, because you are not God and you don't dictate it or control it.

Also should it be a requirement for a pastor to speak on Revelations. While I do feel the while Bible should be taught. You do have alot of End times pastors that only preach on the End Times. They preach nothing else. So it can go either way. There has to be balance.

But I don't feel people have to be rude while making comments. We are adults, that isn't necessary.

[Christina]

No my teaching is in the Bible.What I go against is you all here claiming to know what a preacher needs to preach on rather what the Holy Spirit leads him to preach on.

No Lucinda, if this is what you think the debate is about then you've misunderstood. Yes, a Pastor should teach on what the Holy Spirit has led him to teach on, I agree with that.....where you and I part ways is when you start trying to imply that this Pastor doesn't talk about the Rapture because the Holy Spirit hasn't led Him to and then try to claim that this is in God's Will or when you try to justify a Pastor claiming something in God's Word is not important by saying that maybe the Holy Spirit led him to teach something else. GOD is very clear that His WHOLE Word is to be taught and you can be guaranteed that the Holy Spirit is in line with God's Word.

You only need to read God's Word to know what is in His Will. It IS His Will that any man that He calls out to be a Pastor teach the FULL council of God, not half, not one third, not bits and pieces but ALL of it. This debate is not about why was he not teaching on the Rapture that weekend or why hasn't he preached on the Rapture over the past year, but instead the question was.....why is this Pastor making a statement that it's not important to talk about the Rapture (and therefore doesn't deem it necessary to teach on it either).

Please answer a question that I've asked you 3 times now......if a man is truly called of God to lead a flock, be a Pastor, don't you think that the Lord would give him everything he needs to do God's work, I mean he does work for God as you said, wouldn't God make sure he has everything he needs to do the job and do it according to the Lord's Word? Since when does a man called out by God say that something in God's Word is not important to warrant talking about it?

It is "acceptance" and "tolerance" such as what we've seen posted in this thread, that is creeping into the churches in these last days, it is dangerous and it is leading people astray! I don't care if I am called self righteous, I don't care if you call me "puffed up", I don't care if you think I'm trying to fill some pretty big shoes, I don't care if you feel I have no right to stand against falseness, I don't care if you feel I have no right to call out a human error based on God's Word....God's Word is the authority we are to live by. Yes, we are to be loving and we are to lift one another up....Jesus loved and He accepted the worst of the worst but....He did NOT accepct and tolerate their unrepented sins, He did not accept a continued life of practicing sin just as we love fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but that does not mean we tolerate the false teachings or the twisting of scripture and we especially don't tolerate a Pastor claiming that something in God's Word is not important, it's ALL important.

[Christina]

I believe that too!!!!!!!!!!!! Stop saying that we don't believe a pastor can pick and choose that is not what we are saying.

Listen to me......What I am saying is God gives the pastor his message. Is his message on Revelations or Endtimes? Maybe, Maybe not.
Does that make him less a Christian?
NO!
Why? Because you or I don't dictate what a pastor will preach or speak on. God does. Sometime in this pastors ministry he may call on him to preach it. Maybe next month, maybe next year........you don't know, because you are not God and you don't dictate it or control it.

Also should it be a requirement for a pastor to speak on Revelations. While I do feel the while Bible should be taught. You do have alot of End times pastors that only preach on the End Times. They preach nothing else. So it can go either way. There has to be balance.

But I don't feel people have to be rude while making comments. We are adults, that isn't necessary.

...nobody is dictating what and when this Pastor preaches on whatever he preaches on....what we are in disagreement about is the fact that he said it's not important to talk about the Rapture.....don't you get it....NOBODY has the right to say that something in GOD'S Word is not important to talk about. This Pastor can be led wherever he's led but it's NOT biblical to say that something in God's Word is unimportant and doesn't need to be talked about.

Why is this so hard for you to undersrtand? Are you purposely trying to not understand what the problem is here?

[LightOfMyLife]

No Lucinda, if this is what you think the debate is about then you've misunderstood. Yes, a Pastor should teach on what the Holy Spirit has led him to teach on, I agree with that.....where you and I part ways is when you start trying to imply that this Pastor doesn't talk about the Rapture because the Holy Spirit hasn't led Him to and then try to claim that this is in God's Will or when you try to justify a Pastor claiming something in God's Word is not important by saying that maybe the Holy Spirit led him to teach something else. GOD is very clear that His WHOLE Word is to be taught and you can be guaranteed that the Holy Spirit is in line with God's Word.

You only need to read God's Word to know what is in His Will. It IS His Will that any man that He calls out to be a Pastor teach the FULL council of God, not half, not one third, not bits and pieces but ALL of it. This debate is not about why was he not teaching on the Rapture that weekend or why hasn't he preached on the Rapture over the past year, but instead the question was.....why is this Pastor making a statement that it's not important to talk about the Rapture (and therefore doesn't deem it necessary to teach on it either).

Please answer a question that I've asked you 3 times now......if a man is truly called of God to lead a flock, be a Pastor, don't you think that the Lord would give him everything he needs to do God's work, I mean he does work for God as you said, wouldn't God make sure he has everything he needs to do the job and do it according to the Lord's Word? Since when does a man called out by God say that something in God's Word is not important to warrant talking about it?

It is "acceptance" and "tolerance" such as what we've seen posted in this thread, that is creeping into the churches in these last days, it is dangerous and it is leading people astray! I don't care if I am called self righteous, I don't care if you call me "puffed up", I don't care if you think I'm trying to fill some pretty big shoes, I don't care if you feel I have no right to stand against falseness, I don't care if you feel I have no right to call out a human error based on God's Word....God's Word is the authority we are to live by. Yes, we are to be loving and we are to lift one another up....Jesus loved and He accepted the worst of the worst but....He did NOT accepct and tolerate their unrepented sins, He did not accept a continued life of practicing sin just as we love fellow brothers and sisters in Christ, but that does not mean we tolerate the false teachings or the twisting of scripture and we especially don't tolerate a Pastor claiming that something in God's Word is not important, it's ALL important.

I agree Christina. Exhorting & rebuking are also words used in The Bible. This is for correction to be based on God's word & we do not pick & choose what we think is correct in The Bible. If it is in The Bible, it is all true. We are not to compromise on God's word it is all true. There are times when what this world does & even believers need to be shown the truth, but done with love. Jesus was upset when the moneychangers came into the synagogue. He brought in a whip, and turned their tables over saying you have turned my Father's house into a den of thieves. This is called righteous indignation. When a pastor is twisting God's word, then there is something wrong with his belief system. Jesus also talked about wolves in sheeps clothing. We need to always believe God's word over men anyday. Jesus told his believers to follow me. We are to be God pleasers not people pleasers.

[OnceWasLost]

This is insane, I will attempt for the final time to get sthis back to the OP. If a pastor refuses to deal with portions of the Bible because he is a straight topical preacher, he is derelict in his duty to teach the whole counsel (Acts 20)

It is not right to assume just because he is teaching he is doing what God wants. He is just like the rest of Christians in that we all miss Gods direction at times. I will not assume a preacher is teaching what God wants until I hear it taught. If they say, right out of the box, they will avoid entire topics, don't add me to the list of people assuming he is in God's will, just because he holds the title of "Pastor"

This thread is not about the members here, it's about the teachers inside the church. The church about which God says he stands at the door and knocks. (Rev 3:20) How did He find Himself to be outside knocking to get in? Simple, a church that only talks about things that are easy and comfortable, but avoiding things which may be difficult or confrontational.

Again from the OP:

My pastor mentioned that he doesn't feel the need to talk about the rapture and that what's important is not thinking about that but worrying about what you do today and helping people in Christ right now... to not focus on the future.

The message of "Helping people" without teaching them about His imminent return and our blessed hope is a woefully incomplete message. It is further not scriptural and not worthy of the Gospel truth. The passages that support this are all over this thread and are beyond clear.

[texasgirl]

I fold.........

I don't want people to think I am some troublestarter or something just because I give my opinion.........I love the Lord and everyone here. Really, I hold no ill feeling towards anyone.

Plus......I am just too sick.......I wanna dig deeper in the word, the will is there, but my eyes are too blurry and my head is pounding. I get little relief every now and then...but not much. I so want to read my Bible........

[OnceWasLost]

I fold.........

I don't want people to think I am some troublestarter or something just because I give my opinion.........I love the Lord and everyone here. Really, I hold no ill feeling towards anyone.

Plus......I am just too sick.......I wanna dig deeper in the word, the will is there, but my eyes are too blurry and my head is pounding. I get little relief every now and then...but not much. I so want to read my Bible........

Lord, will you allow TexasGirl to find peace from her physical body that she may have time with You in Your word? We ask in Jesus' name.

[JoelH]

To everyone:

I have noticed this sermon from a very reputable pastor in a church in Connecticut, USA. The purpose here is not to point my fingers again to anyone here out of personal malice, certainly not the bretherns which I have crossed words with above. It is to edify us all, me included, that God's teaching alone is the abolute reliable objective standard, and His Word settles it, it is then the final authority and we must accept it.

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http://www.nepaugchurch.org/sermons/zz20070701.htm

Need: "Today when globalization and the Internet push together differing cultures with varying beliefs, leaving many unsure of what is God's truth, how are we to discern His truth with any certainty?!"

1. In 1 Corinthians 12:1-2, the Apostle Paul prefaced the start of his teaching on spiritual gifts with a revelation about the need for his Corinthian believing readers to DISCERN TRUE from FALSE SPIRITS behind ALL teachers, Bible Know. Com., N. T., p. 532f:

1. Though the English translations have Paul at 1 Cor. 12:1a introducing the chapter by referring to "spiritual gifts," he did not write the actual word for "spiritual gifts" which is charismaton (as in verse 4), but "spiritual things," or pneumatikon, U. B. S. Grk. N. T., 1966, p. 605.
2. Then, he referred to the pre-salvation days of his readers when they were misled unto worshiping idols, 1 Corinthians 12:2.
3. Accordingly, in view of their pagan heritage and how it had once left them vulnerable to being spiritually deceived, and possibly still left them concerned about being deceived, Paul did not want his readers to be ignorant of "spiritual things" regarding true and false ministries:

1. In their pre-salvation days, Paul's readers had been misled in many ways by false teachers to end up worshiping idols, 1 Cor. 12:2: the words hos an ['agesthe 'apagomenoi] ("howsoever you might [be led astray]") show that, prior to their salvation, Paul's readers had "followed every teacher but the end was always idolworship," F. W. Grosheide, 1 Corinthians, NICNT, 1980, p. 279-280.
2. Thus, the Corinthian believers were either still vulnerable to deception, or were concerned about being vulnerable to it, or they were still vulnerable to false teachers, Ibid., Bib. Kno. Com., N. T.
3. Paul accordingly wrote to inform his formerly pagan readers about discerning true from false spiritual ministries!

2. Paul thus provided a TEST on DISCERNING FALSE from GOD'S TRUE SPIRITS that are BEHIND ALL TEACHERS, 1 Cor. 12:3:

1. Paul claimed that no one who speaks spirit-related ideas by means of the Holy Spirit of God says, "Jesus is accursed!" (1 Corinthians 12:3a)
2. Also, Paul claimed that no one is even able (dunatai) to say, "Jesus is (the) Lord" except by means of the Holy Spirit, 1 Corinthians 12:3b. By the term, "Lord" in such a context, Paul meant Jesus as the Creator God, cf. Colossians 2:9; Ibid., U. B. S. Greek New Testament.
3. This test along with Scripture passages elsewhere reveal one can test a teacher's salvation status and empowering spirit that is behind his spiritual teachings to discern whether he is from God (as follows):

1. Once a party believes in Christ as his Savior, he is indwelt forever from that moment forward by God the Holy Spirit, Eph. 1:13-14.
2. Indeed, if one does not have the Spirit, he is not saved, Rom. 8:9b!
3. The Holy Spirit always honors and glorifies Christ, John 16:13-14.
4. Applying each of these truths, we know that (a) one who asserts spirit-related ideas is of God providing he glorifies Jesus and confesses Him as God, or that (b) one is unsaved if he either curses Christ or fails to be able to confess Jesus is the Creator God!

3. However, 1 Corinthians 12:3 allows ROOM for ERRANT WORDS by TRUE CHRISTIANS, so we add FURTHER clarifications from SCRIPTURE on TESTING ALL TEACHINGS by all teachers:

1. God has several subjective means of testing for His true teachings:

1. True and false teachers are in time exposed by their "fruits", their works and the effects of their lives, Matt. 7:15-20; 1 Tim. 5:24-25.
2. God wants us to discern error through staying with what God has previously let us be taught and also become convinced was true, and that were taught to us by godly men, 2 Timothy 3:13-14.
3. The indwelling Holy Spirit also provides a subjective signal on the degree of credibility of what a believer hears, a signal in his human spirit [that can be objectively verified by Scripture], 1 Jn. 2:20, 27.

2. However, subjective experience can deceive due to sin in men (cf. Deuteronomy 13:1-4 with 1 Timothy 4:1-2), so God has an objective and thus sure test for truth -- His written Word:

1. Isaiah 8:19-20 claims Scripture is the starting point of God's light.
2. Jesus told his hearers to test His acts and works in view of the Old Testament to verify His identity as Messiah and God, John 5:39.
3. Jesus exampled the right way to interpret Scripture in Mark 12:18-27 -- to use the normal, litero-grammatico-historical method.
4. Thus, those who teach accurately are Biblical, and we can discern this fact by checking written Scripture in its normal meaning like the Bereans did in evaluating Paul's teaching, cf. Acts 17:10-11.

Lesson Application: (1) May we trust in Christ as Savior from sin to be saved and indwelt by the Holy Spirit, John 3:16; Romans 8:9. (2) Then, may we TEST the spirits of ALL TEACHERS using 1 Corinthians 12:3, and (3) heed Scripture's subjective and objective guidelines on TRUE TEACHINGS by godly teachers.

[Buzzardhut]

3 important reasons to teach the pre-trib rapture:

1. Scripture reveals it.
2. The lost need to know about it.
3. We are comforted with this Blessed Hope.

[Jlutz]

as my pastor would say, he'd be a derelict pastor if he didn't preach about the rapture.

If the rapture is our blessed hope, then how is it he would deprive his congragation from learning about it?

[Buzzardhut]

as my pastor would say, he'd be a derelict pastor if he didn't preach about the rapture.

If the rapture is our blessed hope, then how is it he would deprive his congragation from learning about it?

Many church's main foci are keeping the people working in the grind; OSAS and a pretrib rapture hinders any leadership manipulation of the masses.

[carol1948]

In Scripture Jesus said that we are to watch and pray always ...(Lk 21:36). Paul tells us to be alert so that that hour does not come upon us as a thief in the night because we are not children of darkness (1 Th 5:4). In John the Lord said that he tells us what will happen before it happens so that when it happens we will believe.

Our pastor rarely says much about end times in his sermons other than that Christ is coming soon, the Bible teaches it and he believes it. I would love to hear more but I trust/am confident our pastor gives us what the Lord leads him to give us. Thankfully, the Lord has led me to study far beyond what I can hear in an hour long sermon on Sunday morning. I sometimes think I would hate to be a pastor standing before the Lord trying to explain why so many of my 'flock' were taken by surprise when He came, but still I know that is between the pastor and the Lord. However, if I was not confident that my pastor was preaching what the Lord leads him to preach, I think I would look for another church.

If I did not know what to expect as taught by scripture, this world's situation would have me in a panic for the sake of my children and grandchildren, as well as myself. As it is, I am calm and without fear, eagerly expecting the Lord to come for us at the perfect time which may be any day now, and yet praising Him every night for his patience and all those who came to faith throughout the day. Knowing that the Lord's return is so near gives me a sense of urgency I did not have before I began to study in earnest, and has also caused me to disengage from the world more and more each day. It follows that others would reap the same benefits if their pastors would teach or encourage them to study on their own, more about the rapture and the millenium, the New Jerusalem, etc.

It is my opinion though that many Christians are afraid of the rapture teaching because they don't know what the Bible says about it, and that the purpose of it is so that we may escape the wrath that is to come, that will come upon the whole earth.
I also think that many Christians join the emergent/dominion groups because they have never studied the whole Bible, and therefore, do not understand what God's plan is, that it has already been set completely, and for believers it is all good.