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Thread: Daniel 12:4 - Run to and fro...

  1. #1
    suspicious_mind Guest

    Question Daniel 12:4 - Run to and fro...

    Hi there,

    I have a question about Daniel 12:4.
    Many times I have seen American writers quote Daniel 12:4 saying:"many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

    I am from Holland and I read the Dutch translation, where it says something like: "Many will study it and [their] knowledge shall be increased". This is the second part of verse 4, and it is about the book of Daniel. It is saying that people will go 'to and fro' thru the book of Daniel searching for the knowledge that is in the book of Daniel.

    The Dutch translation of 1634 and ALL other translations, even the German are saying this is what is meant by Daniel 12:4. Only the King James has people running to and fro and general knowledge being increased. This discovery came as a shock to me...because it seems more logical to see this verse in the light the Dutch translaters (and many others) put it. But that would mean this verse is not about travel or science-knowledge, which means all people using KJV(including raptureready.com) are wrong speculating we are in the end-times because of this verse being true now!?

    This question has been bothering me for quite a while, so I hope someone can help me out here, especially because english is your native-language.

    Many thanks in advance!

  2. #2
    jethro Guest

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    Hi, and welcome. I don't know if I can help, but I think the phrase "to and fro"' means just about what it does in Amos 8:12 - that they will search far and wide (but fail in Amos).

    "Knowlege shall Increase" is a reference that pertains to the end time prophecies of Daniel:12 1-3, of the tribulation, over in Revelations 22:10 as well.

  3. #3
    suspicious_mind Guest

    Default Global Travel?

    Thanks for the reply!

    The thing is that this 'to and fro and knowledge shall increase' very often is used to say that when this happens we are in/nearing endtimes. While other translations point out that this is just about the learning and searching IN the book of Daniel, not a prophesy of Global Travel or Increase of Knowledge in endtimes, for which many use this text. For instance:

    http://www.oneimage.org/Images/pages/01cartoon171.htm

  4. #4
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    I still believe that the internet is what has made way for this "increase of knowledge." Since it spans the earth, we are now "connected" and can get knowledge at the touch of a button. Knowledge has exponentially increased as a result.

  5. #5
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    Dan 12:4

    (AMP) But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God's purposes as revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great.(3)

    (CJB) "But you, Dani'el, keep these words secret, and seal up the book until the time of the end. Many will rush here and there as knowledge increases."

    (ISR AV) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    (KJV) But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    (MKJV) But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the book, even to the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

    (NAS77) "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

    (NASB) "But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase."

    (NIV) But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

    (YLT) And thou, O Daniel, hide the things, and seal the book till the time of the end, many do go to and fro, and knowledge is multiplied.'

  6. #6
    ATYCLB Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by suspicious_mind
    I have a question about Daniel 12:4.
    Many times I have seen American writers quote Daniel 12:4 saying:"many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased."

    I am from Holland and I read the Dutch translation, where it says something like: "Many will study it and [their] knowledge shall be increased". This is the second part of verse 4, and it is about the book of Daniel. It is saying that people will go 'to and fro' thru the book of Daniel searching for the knowledge that is in the book of Daniel.

    The Dutch translation of 1634 and ALL other translations, even the German are saying this is what is meant by Daniel 12:4. Only the King James has people running to and fro and general knowledge being increased. This discovery came as a shock to me...because it seems more logical to see this verse in the light the Dutch translaters (and many others) put it. But that would mean this verse is not about travel or science-knowledge, which means all people using KJV(including raptureready.com) are wrong speculating we are in the end-times because of this verse being true now!?
    I don't see why it wouldn't apply both ways.

    I don't have any hard statistics, but Daniel seems to be an online favorite in
    these days. A quick Google can turn up hundreds, if not thousands, of sites
    going "to and fro" through the book of Daniel.

    I also agree with antitox:

    Quote Originally Posted by antitox
    I still believe that the internet is what has made way for this "increase of knowledge." Since it spans the earth, we are now "connected" and can get knowledge at the touch of a button. Knowledge has exponentially increased as a result.
    I've read a couple of articles in the past about the exponential growth in knowledge
    that we're seeing. Fascinating stuff.

  7. #7
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    The AMP version seems to support what suspicious_mind said...

  8. #8
    ATYCLB Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post
    The AMP version seems to support what suspicious_mind said...
    Oh, I agree to a point, which is why I made mention of how a quick Google can turn up so
    many sites going "to and fro" through the book of Daniel (analysis, critique, commentary,
    etc.,.). The same searches can also lead to many online translations of Daniel.

    I think the existence of these sites somewhat demonstrates an anxious search of the book,
    with knowledge [of God's purposes as revealed by His prophets] increasing.

    I just don't necessarily agree that the verse excludes the travel and science part. The internet
    enables anyone with access to travel all over the world to read those sites. It also allows those
    who don't (or can't) have Bibles to access one that they can go "to and fro" through.

  9. #9
    BrckBrln Guest

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    "But you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal the book until the time of the end. Many will roam about, and knowledge will increase." (Daniel 12:4 HSCB)

    Well after reading this thread, I am convinced that this verse is saying that the Book of Daniel will be sealed until the time of the end and that many will roam about the book and knowledge will increase about the book.

    So having said that, does this mean that since the Book of Daniel is 'sealed' until the time of the end then the traditional teachings of Daniel is off? Meaning, what we think we know about the dreams and visions of Daniel before could be off because a hundred years ago we were not in the end times.

    So does that mean that the traditional teaching of Daniel 2 and 7 could be wrong - Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greece, Rome? How could we know this is absolutely right a hundred years ago when they weren't in the end times? Do you understand what I'm saying here?

  10. #10
    Sing4Him Guest

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    I've always thought that the "meaning of Daniel" is concealed, shut up, hidden, closed until the end times. At that point, the meanings will slowly make sense (revealed).. or be clearer.

    (isn't that cool??!!)

  11. #11
    AFEmery Guest

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    There are many prophecy's that could not be understood until the end times, like the two Prophets that will be killed by the Antichrist and left where they fall for all the world to see. Up until global satellites , this could not happen. 100 years ago, the church thought this was a spiritual meaning, not a literal meaning.

    "To and fro" (across the globe), up until airplanes, was a very hard thing to do. As we entered into the "jet age", this became common for a person to get on a plane and get off on the other side of the world in the same day, where it use to take months to do in ships.

  12. #12
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    Default Jack Kelly's Answer to this very same question...


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