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Thread: Deconstructing One Of The Most "Attacked Christians" (Emergent Jay Bakker)

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    Default Deconstructing One Of The Most "Attacked Christians" (Emergent Jay Bakker)

    DECONSTRUCTING ONE OF THE MOST ATTACKED CHRISTIANS
    By Ken Silva pastor-teacher on Jan 13, 2010 in AM Missives, Current Issues, Homosexuality/"Christian", Jay Bakker



    As I urged you upon my departure for Macedonia, remain on at Ephesus so that you may instruct certain men not to teach strange doctrines, nor to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies, which give rise to mere speculation rather than furthering the administration of God which is by faith.

    But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. For some men, straying from these things, have turned aside to fruitless discussion, wanting to be teachers of the Law, even though they do not understand either what they are saying or the matters about which they make confident assertions. (1 Timothy 1:3-7, NASB)

    False Teachers Always Cry The Loudest For Tolerance To Avoid Scrutiny

    Apprising Ministries has talked a little about Andrew Marin e.g. in Andrew Marin And Tony Jones, which gives you a peek at the current drift left by Marin, further indicated by his blogroll where we see both Emerging Church guru Brian McLaren and his good friend Tony Jones. Marin, “the President and Founder of The Marin Foundation” and author of the book Love Is An Orientation, doesn’t claim to be aligned with the Emergent Church, which morphed into Emergence Christianity (EC)—now a cult of a postliberalism firmly within mainstream evangelicalism.

    Marin, at this time anyway, also has the reputation of taking a conservative evangelical view concerning the deviant and sinful lifestyle of having sexual relations with another of the same sex i.e homosexuality. Today he tweets:

    Check out my video interview w/Jay Bakker (@jaybakker) abt his haters http://bit.ly/88uAXz (Online source)

    Well, he did ask; and so there it is below. The above link takes us to Marin’s blog Love is an Orientation, which is apparently “Counterculture,” and to the post Andrew Interviews Jay Bakker. There Marin tells us of gay affirming “pastor” Jay Bakker who, like outlaw preachers he heads up, is rather biblically illiterate:

    Ever since Jay Bakker (son of Jim and the late Tammy Faye Bakker) had his own ‘coming out’ in the evangelical world - publicly standing with the gay community in regards to gay ordination, marriage and the belief in what is considered a pro-gay theology – Jay has been one of the most attacked people throughout our faith. (Online source)

    O please; I assume that by “throughout our faith” Marin means Christianity. And then he informs us:

    Jay is not one to respond to the many bloggers and internet folks who strongly dislike him, so I figured I would let him air his thoughts about the viciouness [sic] that surrounds him on a daily basis. (Online source)

    Right; and it’s said ODMs (means online discernment ministries) are prone to exaggeration. So what does Jay have to say? Well, Marin first intros Bakker similarly to the above “as the dead honest truth”; everyone has a good laugh, and then Marin tells Bakker he wants him to address ”your critics, and your haters, who just despise you.” First of all I speak as one who’s been critical, and will continue to be so, until he repents of his sin of mocking God’s Word through his encouraging homosexual sin by not being truthful with GLBTQ people for whom Christ died.

    Because I Love Jay Bakker And GLBTQ People I will continue to do what I can through the forums I’ve been given to remind them that while everyone has every right to feel about and/or to believe whatever they want to (within reason), what someone feels and/or believes has exactly zero to do with what the Creator has said concerning the unrepentant practice of sexual immorality with a member of the same sex i.e. homosexuality. As Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989) quipped in this regard: “What really is there to discuss; if you actually believe what Bible says?”

    To tell the truth is not hating anyone, and it certainly isn’t to despise someone like Bakker; and yet Jay says below:

    Well, I guess what I’d say to my critics who have a hard time with me is, everything I do is out of genuine love. Um, I love my LGBT brothers and sisters, and support them, because I love them and I feel like that’s what Christ has called me to do; and that’s how I understand the Scriptures.

    Um, I think we’ve gotta learn to love each other, and talk to each other, and not try to—like—fight each other. Like—online, very passive-aggressive; you know, I think we should go to each other. Um, but the problem is, sometimes when these guys go to you, they just want to talk at you, rather then with you.

    So we’ve got to learn to talk together. And there’s always going to be critics, and all these people that disagree—and think that I’m a heretic and, that’s ok, because I’m alright with Jesus; and I know where I stand with the Lord. And you know, if I change, I change; if I don’t, I don’t.

    Leaving Bakker’s humilty aside, concerning his willingness to change, let me deconstruct this tired argument for you. You see, if you are willing to be obedient to the call of every Christian in Jude 3 to earnestly contend for the faith, you are going to run into more and more “evangelicals” today who believe as Jay Bakker does; not only as it applies to the sin of sexual immorality of having sexual relations with another of the same sex, but also their belief that to criticize their view is to “hate” and “dispise” them personally.

    When One Can’t Defend Their Position They Often Play The Martyr Card For Sympathy

    Bakker begins, “everything I do is out of genuine love”; and now I say, Jay, everything I do is out of genuine love. Bakker continues, “I love my LGBT brothers and sisters, and support them”. I’m not questioning that Jay loves GLBTQ people in his own way; but I also love my brothers and sisters after Adam, in this case who are GLBTQ, enough to tell them the truth. As I pointed out in Bible Outs Gay Marriage (Part Two), according to Jesus—in those Red Letters—marriage is a man (male) becoming one flesh with his wife (female); no way around it.

    So same sex sexual relations will always be outside of the proper sexuality of a man and woman in marriage as deemed by our Creator God. Yet Bakker blasphemes when he tries to get us to believe that “what Christ has called [him] to do” is be an advocate for same sex marriage, which is diametrically opposed the the Word of God. This would be to accuse Jesus of sanctioning sinful behavior and even calling one who purports to be one of His pastors to encourage the same. Yet sadly, “that’s how I understand the Scriptures” is what we’re told by Bakker in the video below.

    The opening text which I used above is in what’s known as the pastoral epistles; and that’s why, as a pastor-teacher, I felt led to use it in this article. Jay also claims to be one sent by Christ to shepherd and teach His sheep, and no matter how sincere one may be, this isn’t some game we play before the world. Titus 1:9 is quite clear that the pastor-teacher must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it. And this all would include Jay Bakker as well.

    Surely Jay isn’t suggesting God would give us a command that wasn’t based in love; and as a matter of fact, our opening text even tells us that the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith. There’s really nothing passive-aggressive when I do my job in Jesus here along the Internet Front of this Truth War. Bakker then says, “I think we should go to each other,” which is a pet argument today in the apostatizing evangelical community. However, it has zero to do with those of us teaching in the public arena.

    If the opportunity does present itself, then there’s certainly no reason why we couldn’t meet; but the point is, it isn’t necessary. And particularly in this case when Jay goes on to say, “sometimes when these guys go to you, they just want to talk at you, rather then with you.” You may already recognize that this is a classic whine with so many today the minute their doctrine is criticized. Well, I say it’s time for you to man up Jay; you know very well that you’re trying every bit as much to convert me to your ideas, as I am you to mine.

    And it also appears to me that Bakker’s being a bit disingenuous when he says he thinks we who disagree should go to each other. From speaking on the phone today with Chris Rosebrough, host of Fighting for the Faith on Pirate Christian Radio, I know that his offer still stands for Jay to come on his program to discuss his views; yet Bakker still hasn’t taken Chris up on this offer. Perhaps it’s just easier for Jay to continue to play the martyr card against so-called passive-aggressive critics and haters who “disagree—and think that[he's] a heretic.”

    Speaking for myself here, it’s precisely because I do love Jay Bakker that I grieve when he says, “that’s ok, because I’m alright with Jesus; and I know where I stand with the Lord.” This is the very grave danger with kicking out Sola Scriptura in favor of all of this highly subjective existential experience. Jay, while you’re entitled to believe whatever you want to, based on 2 Timothy 4:2 I admonish you to repent; because unless you stop affirming the sexual immorality of unrepentant practicing GLBTQ people, you are contributing to their sin, and withholding the Gospel from them:

    Claiming to be wise, they became fools, and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things. Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

    For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature; and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.

    They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless. Though they know God’s decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them. (Romans 1:22-32, ESV)





    http://apprising.org/2010/01/13/deco...ed-christians/
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

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    Bakker has been attacked? (I guess using Discernment and contending for sound doctrine= attacks and "persecution"



    sick of the false teachers like Bakker and Noble and Batterson and others like them claiming victim hood,

    when they are victimizing people with their false teachings like Universalism and Contemplative Prayer





    I would be curious oif the Emergents or seeker pastors and their supporters have ever condemned the criticism towards

    John Chisham
    Chris Rosebrough of http://www.fightingforthefaith.com

    Ingrid of http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/ and her blog

    Jan Markell



    or other discernment bloggers/radio hosts or authors

    or me (anyone remember the Brian Merritt incident a while back



    what about WOF and Seeker driven movement folks and Emergents attacking John MacArthur for standing up to the false teachers out there.

    Has any WOF or Emergent or Seeker movement person ever condemned the attacks on MacArthur
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

  3. #3
    His Bride Guest

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    So the discernment ministries are to be silent as the lambs are deceived by the wolves?????I don't think so....


    Not in my book.....the Bible!

  4. #4
    Ready4ThatDay Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by billiefan2000 View Post
    Bakker has been attacked? (I guess using Discernment and contending for sound doctrine= attacks and "persecution"



    sick of the false teachers like Bakker and Noble and Batterson and others like them claiming victim hood,

    when they are victimizing people with their false teachings like Universalism and Contemplative Prayer





    I would be curious oif the Emergents or seeker pastors and their supporters have ever condemned the criticism towards

    John Chisham
    Chris Rosebrough of http://www.fightingforthefaith.com

    Ingrid of http://www.crosstalkamerica.com/ and her blog

    Jan Markell





    what about WOF and Seeker driven movement folks and Emergents attacking John MacArthur for standing up to the false teachers out there.

    Has any WOF or Emergent or Seeker movement person ever condemned the attacks on MacArthur
    BRAVO!

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