Why do so many try to discredit the pre-trib rapture?

[Mitsy]

I was doing an internet search looking at "pre-tribulation rapture" with the names of a couple of Preachers who teach pre-trib. Just wanted to get some articles by them. To my horror these men were listed as heretics and false teachers on websites which are putting forward that the pre-trib rapture is a hoax or even worse a deception. Not to mention I came a cross a website for Witches (yep Witches, who have a few bones to pick with pre-tribulation preachers as well).

I'm not sure if I should link to these websites but if you do a search for "pre-trib rapture" and "hoax or deception" that will do the trick.

It's not enough for these sites to say that there are various views on the timing of the Rapture and here is why we disagree with the pre-trib model. Noooooo these sites not only discredit those that teach pre-trib but are extremely vicious and derogartoy in their rejection of the pre-trib rapture. So much so any Christian who obviously believes in it must not be saved but a deluded fool.

Sooooooo angry and I didn't need to come across these sites today.

Needless to say I didn't thouroughly read their arguments. Anyone who immediately questions a persons salvation depending on their Rapture event timing can't have the Love of Christ in them.

JN 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Fancy saying we are not save and deluded. Not a very loving bunch if you ask me.

[TwinklingOfanEye]

Oh wow, recently I've been wanting to make a thread like this but you beat me to it.

Yup, i am shocked by the things they say about pre-tribbers. I mean, its not even Christ-like of them!

Its just plain vicious and judgmental!

[Mitsy]

Oh wow, recently I've been wanting to make a thread like this but you beat me to it.

Yup, i am shocked by the things they say about pre-tribbers. I mean, its not even Christ-like of them!

Its just plain vicious and judgmental!

One thing I noted you don't get the same out there for the other Rapture Event Timings, only the pre-trib rapture gets the panning we get.

[cocopea9052]

Misty

I agree, it almost seems as if they want Christians who will not endure God's wrath to be convinced they will. But I just can't understand the reasoning behind that when those who are indeed Christians would be suffering the exact same thing.

Thus the only other thing I can figure is that some just don't want to go home, they just love life and want to continue to live it until enough death and destruction befall them......

Or, quite possibly, as you stated, they are under the impression that those of us who believe in the pre-trib are like some type of "elite" group-- because they don't truly understand that salvation is not contingent upon belief in the Rapture, therefore it would just be human nature to be jealous that "we" believe we are going and they are not.....

Whatever is the reason(s)....jealousy, confusion, strife, ego, pride, etc. it surely is a condition of the flesh. We don't believe in the Rapture because it makes sense or because we can reason it out or figure it out. We believe in it because we believe the word of God and his promises....we know emphatically that he will not leave us here to suffer wrath. And really I can't imagine taking up any other position...the trib is going to be every horror movie come to real life and then some and then some no one has ever envisioned.....why would God want his children to suffer through that.....

[ThePenguin]

Misty

I agree, it almost seems as if they want Christians who will not endure God's wrath to be convinced they will. But I just can't understand the reasoning behind that when those who are indeed Christians would be suffering the exact same thing.

Thus the only other thing I can figure is that some just don't want to go home, they just love life and want to continue to live it until enough death and destruction befall them......

Or, quite possibly, as you stated, they are under the impression that those of us who believe in the pre-trib are like some type of "elite" group-- because they don't truly understand that salvation is not contingent upon belief in the Rapture, therefore it would just be human nature to be jealous that "we" believe we are going and they are not.....

Whatever is the reason(s)....jealousy, confusion, strife, ego, pride, etc. it surely is a condition of the flesh. We don't believe in the Rapture because it makes sense or because we can reason it out or figure it out. We believe in it because we believe the word of God and his promises....we know emphatically that he will not leave us here to suffer wrath. And really I can't imagine taking up any other position...the trib is going to be every horror movie come to real life and then some and then some no one has ever envisioned.....why would God want his children to suffer through that.....

[Nightelf]

Misty, I've often wondered at the same thing.

I mean, if they don't agree with us, fine! It's not a salvation issue as far as I know. But to say that we who preach and believe in the pre-trib rapture are heretics and worse, not saved.. is..... mind boggling.

It begs the question... why so much hostility toward those of us who are pre-trib?

[BlessedinHim]

The world always wants to sift out the truth from their lives, if they believe the truth, they would not be able to have the pleasure in their sins.

[Robert]

I suspect that many of those who believe the other points of view concerning the Rapture feel they have to suffer for their salvation; i.e., that they have to be sanctified or purified through suffering before they will be "worthy" to be raptured.

In any event, we are finding that we are being assaulted more and more, and often from places we would never expect.

[Buzzardhut]

It's not enough for these sites to say that there are various views on the timing of the Rapture and here is why we disagree with the pre-trib model. Noooooo these sites not only discredit those that teach pre-trib but are extremely vicious and derogartoy in their rejection of the pre-trib rapture. So much so any Christian who obviously believes in it must not be saved but a deluded fool.

Makes one wonder what satanic entity is behind their vitriol

[Mitsy]

I suspect that many of those who believe the other points of view concerning the Rapture feel they have to suffer for their salvation; i.e., that they have to be sanctified or purified through suffering before they will be "worthy" to be raptured.

In any event, we are finding that we are being assaulted more and more, and often from places we would never expect.

Many have said we are supposed to have our faith tested and endure until the end. I couldn't find the verse in my NIV so I think they were using a different version.

As if we aren't already being tested and enduring hardship. What about all our Brothers and Sisters in Christ that have passed away before us they never got the chance to go through the Tribulation, what does that say about their faith & their salvation?

It is hard enough to keep going in this world without people trampling all over your hope to escape.

LK 21:34 "Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap. 35 For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man."

I guess they missed this scripture.

Come Lord quickly and Rapture us out of here, soon.

[Robert]

I believe that verse is in Matthew 24:

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. " (Matthew 24:13, KJV)

But what they do is "cherry pick" the verses to suit their whims; we need to read the surrounding verses to get the context:

" And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple. And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down. And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.: And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.: And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.: And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:1-14, KJV)

Note that the disciples asked "what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?" This was way before Jesus told them about the Rapture; keep in mind that the Rapture doesn't have a "sign" per se; it is an IMMINENT event, so that adds a second clue to this. Jesus was describing the Tribulation when he spoke of "enduring until the end".

Also, consider his audience: he was not speaking to gentiles, but to jewish disciples. Matthew was written for the Jewish, to demonstrate that Jesus is their prophesied Messiah. It doesn't mean that we ignore what Jesus said: certainly a great deal of what he says in Matthew is happening now. But we must be sure to read in CONTEXT and make sure we are not trying to make scripture say something it is not.


Speaking of which, the post tribbers like to use this verse to prove their point:

"And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. " (Matthew 24:31, KJV)

Paul tells us in 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

"Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

If we are going to have spirit bodies, why would angels be needed to gather us? Also, Paul NEVER mentions angels coming to get us!

So I hope this helps you out Mitsy.

BTW: I do not claim to be the "be all end all authority" on scripture interpretation. I know folks out there will disagree with me on this; that's fine. I humbly submit all of this for your perusal, and I invite our board superluminaries like Buzz to correct me if I am out of line. I am simply giving my opinion, and am learning just like everyone else here.

[Caver]

Great thread and for whatever reason, whenever I read or see something like this I think of the verse saying....

"...ye shall know them by their fruit."


Not sure exactly what that's telling me but its worth a few shivers down the spine every time.

[Jacinth]

BTW, it is NOT just the Pre-Trib rapture that is pummeled with viciousness.

There is also a strong rude hatred for the belief that Israel still has a place in God's plan, and the fact that the MK is yet future. I mean, really - the words these people use to describe those of us that hold to dispensational beliefs.

It reminds me of how leftists react to things. Refusing to stick to the argument, and instead making it personal.

[watchwoman]

"But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Matthew 24:13

I agree - some people definitely take this out of context. Those who think Christians need to go through the Trib. seem to think this scripture has to do with physical survival as well as spiritual faith. It seems like it's a kind of "one-upmanship" where they're intimating "My faith is stronger than your faith - nyah, nyah, nyah".

But I've always seen this scripture as telling people to hold on to their faith through every trial and uncertainty of life. We know that many who call themselves Christians "fall away", and so don't "endure". I've seen people who said they were believers totally reject Christ and God after a severe trial in their lives.

Those who mis-use that scripture should connect it with the one directly before it - Matt. 24:12 "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold".

[Amber Lynne]

IMHO, the truth ALWAYS gets attacked. Always.

[Lucid]

In any event, we are finding that we are being assaulted more and more, and often from places we would never expect.

Not wanting to step on toes, but has anyone else noticed that some seminary graduates dismiss the pre-trib more than those 'ol time preachers who didn't go to seminary and are willing to look someone in the eye & defend pre-trib?

That's been my limited experience.

[randyjoy2000]

In the last week or so, I read somewhere - probably on a thread on RR, that the "world" (Satan) will do everything to steal our excitement and anticiapation of watching for the Rapture. It is the very last joy that he can take from a Christian. Every time he can get a Christian to say to himself "Hmmm, just perhaps .... what if there is no Rapture?", the devil can score a point for himself. But worse yet, it kills a little of the faith and childlike wonder that the Lord tells us to come to Him with.

If I ever come across a site, an article or a speaker that disses the Rapture, that's it for me. I turn it right off.

[Christina]

As Robert mentioned upwards, Matthew 24:13 is speaking to those in the Tribulation, by this point the Chruch (The Bride) has already been raptured. He is telling those believers in the Tribulation (remember that at that point one's salvation will be dependent upon them enduring till the end) to stand firm in Him until the end of the Tribulation and that they will be saved. Salvation during the Tribulation will work the same way it did in the OT, by staying faithful to Christ, proclaiming Him till the very end (and for those Trib. Saints... not taking the MOB).

This is what happens when people take God's Words out of context (as those who think we will go through the Tribulation do). We the Bride are gone by this point, Hallelujah Jesus!

[Tall Timbers]

The problem for the world and Satan is Truth... and both it seems will do everything they can do discredit Truth.

[trandraskell]

i was listen to someone the other day on the radio that say that the rapture is a hoax and that we will go thru it. He Believes this because he claimed that the bible never metions the word rapture. I have been study Revelation and end time for about 10 years now and not once has the Holy Spirit showed anything else and i have prayed about. That when I got lead here and then find Footprints of the Messiah that just backs up everything that I have learned. This person also claim that because a pre-trib is an esacpist wish. I have found because of the pre-trib rapture my faith in Christ has gotten stronger because I want to the Lord's will and not wish for anyone being left behind. So I am standing up for my faith and doing witnessing in everything I do and I also have to kept evalauting each and everyday where I am with my walk with the Lord and keep reading the BIble(although not everyday). So I will stick to what I have learned from my own studies and what Christ promises us