Why do so many try to discredit the pre-trib rapture?

[Ima Believer]

This is an intense thread.

First, I'll say: I agree, no one should viciously attack another group for believing pre-Trib, etc. I understand that was the original thread's starting off point.

But, I do see something coming from both "sides" that bothers me, and it's the notion that someone believes what they do simply because they "hope to escape" (pre-Trib) or "expect to suffer" (post-Trib), etc. To steal a term from my high school Bible teacher, these are hasty generalizations that are being erroneously applied to a group of people who more than likely believe what they do because that's how they understand scripture, not because of what they hope for or expect.

The other thing I noticed when I first looked at all sides is the "you're of Satan" claim. I've seen Pre-tribbers (and yes, the other sides too) condemn anyone who views Scripture differently as hell bound and that is something we can't afford to do knowing if we are wrong, Christ will measure judgment to us as we have to others considering this isn't a salvation issue. If the opponents have all their doctrine in opposition to God's word, that is one thing. But if they agree on everything with us but this one thing, I for one sure wouldn't claim them as "being of Satan."

I don't know...I'm young yet as a Christian, only 14 months old. Maybe I will see things differently as I grow and learn.

[Buzzardhut]

The other thing I noticed when I first looked at all sides is the "you're of Satan" claim. I've seen Pre-tribbers (and yes, the other sides too) condemn anyone who views Scripture differently as hell bound and that is something we can't afford to do knowing if we are wrong, Christ will measure judgment to us as we have to others considering this isn't a salvation issue. If the opponents have all their doctrine in opposition to God's word, that is one thing. But if they agree on everything with us but this one thing, I for one sure wouldn't claim them as "being of Satan."

I don't know...I'm young yet as a Christian, only 14 months old. Maybe I will see things differently as I grow and learn.

Pretrib may attract escapists and post trib may attract masochists but we need to conclude our doctrinal beliefs from context in rightly dividing the word of God through proper exegesis, precept upon precept.

[JFrancisco]

Post-trib = works.
Pre-trib = grace



I believe those are the basic mindsets.

[Buzzardhut]

Post-trib = works.
Pre-trib = grace



I believe those are the basic mindsets.

I wonder how exact that stretches out? and how many post tribbers believe in losing salvation.

[BroJimBo]

You know to wrap this up in a nutshell, does not matter who says what about pre, post, mid or what ever. Here is whats going to happen.

We are all going to be standing around in heaven and God will look at us and say this to us, yall know that yall had it all wrong, but I love you anyways. Now come here and give me a hug and see my Kingdom that awaits you.

[TwinklingOfanEye]

Post-trib = works.
Pre-trib = grace



I believe those are the basic mindsets.

You know to wrap this up in a nutshell, does not matter who says what about pre, post, mid or what ever. Here is whats going to happen.

We are all going to be standing around in heaven and God will look at us and say this to us, yall know that yall had it all wrong, but I love you anyways. Now come here and give me a hug and see my Kingdom that awaits you.

[hegavemearoc]

I was doing an internet search looking at "pre-tribulation rapture" with the names of a couple of Preachers who teach pre-trib. Just wanted to get some articles by them. To my horror these men were listed as heretics and false teachers on websites which are putting forward that the pre-trib rapture is a hoax or even worse a deception. Not to mention I came a cross a website for Witches (yep Witches, who have a few bones to pick with pre-tribulation preachers as well).

I'm not sure if I should link to these websites but if you do a search for "pre-trib rapture" and "hoax or deception" that will do the trick.

It's not enough for these sites to say that there are various views on the timing of the Rapture and here is why we disagree with the pre-trib model. Noooooo these sites not only discredit those that teach pre-trib but are extremely vicious and derogartoy in their rejection of the pre-trib rapture. So much so any Christian who obviously believes in it must not be saved but a deluded fool.

Sooooooo angry and I didn't need to come across these sites today.

Needless to say I didn't thouroughly read their arguments. Anyone who immediately questions a persons salvation depending on their Rapture event timing can't have the Love of Christ in them.



Fancy saying we are not save and deluded. Not a very loving bunch if you ask me.

Yeah! Not only is it an easier position to take using scripture that the Lord will call us home before pouring out wrath on Earth, but why would anyone want to argue hanging around here longer anyway?

[Buzzardhut]

Yeah! Not only is it an easier position to take using scripture that the Lord will call us home before pouring out wrath on Earth, but why would anyone want to argue hanging around here longer anyway?

It's just as easy to assume a post trib rapture as well, we don't base our beliefs upon what we want to happen, we base them on what scripture reveals

[Little king]

I have changed my view based looking at both sides of the debate and studying the scriptures.

Time to study some more, Dave. There are some great resources here - you've definitely found the right forum. Make sure you familiarize yourself with the posting guidelines, as this is not a place to debate the veracity of rapture timing "theories." The rapture is imminent, and will take place before the 70th week of Daniel begins. Scripture is clear, but you must apply both mind and heart to serious study in pursuit of understanding. David Reagan rightly implies with his statements that a comprehensive examination of many passages and concepts is required. A single verse is not sufficient to reveal the full extent of this future event.

Read the forum for a while - especially the "sticky" threads at the top of each category - and if you must present arguments against the forum guidelines, send them by Private Message to Buzzardhut.

[hegavemearoc]

It's just as easy to assume a post trib rapture as well, we don't base our beliefs upon what we want to happen, we base them on what scripture reveals

Oh so True. I wasn't implying effect, and thusly cause. I merely moved on to emphasize my earnest hope, and belief, of the joyous event itself coming all the sooner.

[PureVictory]

I have read several articles that advocate other positions on this issue and I sense a strong undertone that we have to endure the tribulation to purify us and make us worthy -- a notion that seems to negate the whole idea of grace.

The pre-trib position is more in keeping with the idea of grace.

[TwinklingOfanEye]

Yeah! Not only is it an easier position to take using scripture that the Lord will call us home before pouring out wrath on Earth, but why would anyone want to argue hanging around here longer anyway?

I know, really. You would think they WANT to be here with the way they push post-trib so hard and get furious at Christians who doesnt believe that way. Then of course we have the no-rapture Christian believers too. They think the rapture is a false doctrine.
I knew this one Christian guy on a message board who was totally post-trib all the way, say those that believe in pre-trib, don't want to have to work for our Lord.

[Tesseract]

Before you ask, no I don't know what this radio ministry is called, so I can't provide any links. That means I'll be recalling their program totally from memory. Now where was I...actually I wasn't sure if I should even post this topic, because the RR website already debunks all the main points of those who teach a partial rapture. But there was one thing they did say that I haven't heard before, so I'll get to that in a bit.

I was flipping through the christian radio stations and all but one was playing music. The one that was actually having a teaching was talking about the rapture. But within minutes they started talking about how only spiritually mature christians will be taken, the so called "overcomers," the ones actively looking for Christ to return. They used some verses in Matthew where it talked about "There shall be two working in the field, one shall be taken, the other left" as proof to back up their claim. Then they went on about how those who think the Rapture will be before the tribulation are partially right, and those who think it will be after are also partially right. They said it's actually two Raptures, one before for the overcomers, and one after for the ones who went through the tribulation. Finally (or at least the last part I listened to), they pleaded with all of their listeners to make sure they'll be raptured by living a godly life now, or Christ will essentially beat it into you through the Tribulation. That's all well and good to live a godly life, but it doesn't affect one's rapture status.

They may be well meaning, but this is just like those who say you can lose your salvation, or you need to add works to obtain/retain salvation, and they got Bible verses to back up their claim too. I like the "keep it simple" message of the RR website, with salvation through grace alone makes you automatically rapture ready, no assembly required.

[icebear]

tthe LORD God sustains us, who is more powerful than He?

[WVBORN56]

We are all saved by grace. None of us are ever worthy by our own merits. We are either clothed in the righteousness of Jesus (saved) or we are not.

Just like Rahab (a prostitute) was saved by the scarlet cord in her window we are saved and raptured by the washing of the scarlet blood of Jesus!

Amen!

[Tall Timbers]

Arnold Fruchtenbaum is pretty good at presenting the various theories out there and debunking all but the one we believe here.

[LizMusica]

hmm... I think it is pretty simple.

KJV 1 John 5:4-5
4For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

All believers are overcomes right?

and...

Revelation 2:17
17He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

: )

[WarriorOfGod]

Revelation 3:10 "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

I know this verse refers to 7-year Tribulation, but what does Jesus mean when He said "Because thou has kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation...". I know a lot of Christians have NOT kept the word of His patience (or endured) and it sounds like that Jesus would not keep them from Tribulation--in other words, they would be left behind. Anyone can explain this?

[Steve53]

You are either a Born Again Christian or you are not. ALL Born Again Christians will go in the rapture. There is no such thing as a partial rapture.

[nwpassage]

I'm in a world of confusion over this doctrine. My wife and I attend a Nazarene church, and some of the articles of faith clash with what I always felt I believed when I self educated myself in Christianity. Don't get me wrong, they are very accepting, loving people who have wonderful fruit to prove who they belong to, but I still find fault in believing God would reveal himself to someone, allow him to find salvation, onlyto ultimately lose the race. Very disconcerting.

Sorry I'm off topic, but the initial post took me there.