Why do so many try to discredit the pre-trib rapture?

[RaptureReady_7]

I'm in a world of confusion over this doctrine. My wife and I attend a Nazarene church, and some of the articles of faith clash with what I always felt I believed when I self educated myself in Christianity. Don't get me wrong, they are very accepting, loving people who have wonderful fruit to prove who they belong to, but I still find fault in believing God would reveal himself to someone, allow him to find salvation, onlyto ultimately lose the race. Very disconcerting.

Sorry I'm off topic, but the initial post took me there.

I attend a small country size Nazarene church. I do love my little church by they believe you can backslide so bad that you have to get saved again. They do not believe in God sustaining us in our salvation, but that you can lose it. Although it is a tricky process for my Pastor to explain saved by faith through grace vs we can work our way out of salvation.

The Nazarene church uses backsliding and OSNAS interchangeably. But I do not think they really understand the process as the Nazarene church defines it.

[HeIsEnough]

The one that was actually having a teaching was talking about the rapture. But within minutes they started talking about how only spiritually mature christians will be taken, the so called "overcomers," the ones actively looking for Christ to return.

Pride is probably the hardest thing to 'overcome', if that is the criteria they want to use. If you cluck your tongue at all those hopeless sinners you see in church, maybe the rapture will be for you!

[Buzzardhut]

I know, really. You would think they WANT to be here with the way they push post-trib so hard and get furious at Christians who doesnt believe that way. Then of course we have the no-rapture Christian believers too. They think the rapture is a false doctrine.
I knew this one Christian guy on a message board who was totally post-trib all the way, say those that believe in pre-trib, don't want to have to work for our Lord.

What a messy playing field.

[tbrian40]

Interesting question to this thread. There are 2 reasons why: 1) They don't know the Word, 2)I guess some are just suckers for punishment. Our Lord suffered and died upon that tree so that we wouldn't have to when the real fireworks begin.

[Verisimilitude]

Interesting question to this thread. There are 2 reasons why: 1) They don't know the Word, 2)I guess some are just suckers for punishment. Our Lord suffered and died upon that tree so that we wouldn't have to when the real fireworks begin.

So many don't know the Word. We live in a Biblically illiterate society and that makes it all the more easier for Satan to spread lies. This morning my husband insisted to me that no one who is a Christian should be looking for a rapture and that there is no way we can know we are in the end times. He also insisted that there is nothing about Damascus in the end times in the Bible. He was raised in the rcc. I countered with the crown of righteousness for all who love the Lords appearing and my dh denied that was in the Bible. I told him to read Luke 21:5-31; 2 Timothy 4:8 and Isaiah 17:1. About an hour after he got to work, he texted me a "thank you".

It's a beautiful Word, so full of hope for those who love Him! Common sense alone tells us this world cannot survive they way things are going. Why would any Christian not prefer to be with the God they serve, rather than continue on in the madness of this day and age? I've seen websites that call the rapture a great lie and people who teach it heretics. I've even seen claims that Jesus taught the church MUST go through the tribulation. I'm sorry for these people. The only hope they have is that they die before the tribulation starts. I prefer to look up!

[Carrie Grace]

Interesting question to this thread. There are 2 reasons why: 1) They don't know the Word, 2)I guess some are just suckers for punishment. Our Lord suffered and died upon that tree so that we wouldn't have to when the real fireworks begin.

Yes, it's almost as if they don't believe that Christ's blood was enough. Jesus said "it is finished." I don't recall where He then lifted His head and added, "Stay tuned for Part 2".

Why don't they believe that we need no further "purification"? That we need no "punishment" to earn our ultimate salvation? This is about what Christ did ONE TIME for ALL TIME. The death on the Cross by our precious Savior was ENOUGH. How can they not see this?

[Shonsu]

So many don't know the Word. We live in a Biblically illiterate society and that makes it all the more easier for Satan to spread lies. This morning my husband insisted to me that no one who is a Christian should be looking for a rapture and that there is no way we can know we are in the end times. He also insisted that there is nothing about Damascus in the end times in the Bible. He was raised in the rcc. I countered with the crown of righteousness for all who love the Lords appearing and my dh denied that was in the Bible. I told him to read Luke 21:5-31; 2 Timothy 4:8 and Isaiah 17:1. About an hour after he got to work, he texted me a "thank you".

It's a beautiful Word, so full of hope for those who love Him! Common sense alone tells us this world cannot survive they way things are going. Why would any Christian not prefer to be with the God they serve, rather than continue on in the madness of this day and age? I've seen websites that call the rapture a great lie and people who teach it heretics. I've even seen claims that Jesus taught the church MUST go through the tribulation. I'm sorry for these people. The only hope they have is that they die before the tribulation starts. I prefer to look up!

I'm always flabbergasted when someone who professes Christ says that we shouldn't be looking for the rapture. As followers of Jesus, we are commanded to be looking for the rapture (the return of Christ):

"And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" (Mark 13:37, NKJV)

"Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them." (Luke 12:37, NKJV)

"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly." (Luke 21:34, NKJV)

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober." (1 Thessalonians 5:6, NKJV)

"Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:3b, NKJV)

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15, NKJV)

[gma dolittle]

Misty, I've often wondered at the same thing.

I mean, if they don't agree with us, fine! It's not a salvation issue as far as I know. But to say that we who preach and believe in the pre-trib rapture are heretics and worse, not saved.. is..... mind boggling.

It begs the question... why so much hostility toward those of us who are pre-trib?

Could it be that we have correctly read the scripture and Satan doesn't want anyone joining the pre-trip followers because they live their lives as if he was coming in a couple minutes? If they believe mid or post trib, then there is time to get ready to meet the Lord later.

[HeIsEnough]

I'm always flabbergasted when someone who professes Christ says that we shouldn't be looking for the rapture. As followers of Jesus, we are commanded to be looking for the rapture (the return of Christ):

"And what I say to you, I say to all: Watch!" (Mark 13:37, NKJV)

"Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them." (Luke 12:37, NKJV)

"But take heed to yourselves, lest your hearts be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness, and cares of this life, and that Day come on you unexpectedly." (Luke 21:34, NKJV)

"Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober." (1 Thessalonians 5:6, NKJV)

"Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you." (Revelation 3:3b, NKJV)

"Behold, I am coming as a thief. Blessed is he who watches, and keeps his garments, lest he walk naked and they see his shame." (Revelation 16:15, NKJV)

Excellent.

[HeIsEnough]

Could it be that we have correctly read the scripture and Satan doesn't want anyone joining the pre-trip followers because they live their lives as if he was coming in a couple minutes? If they believe mid or post trib, then there is time to get ready to meet the Lord later.

If you think about it, it goes back to not thinking they are good enough already. Which is true, if they keep their eyes on themselves. The Lord will take even the stubborn ones.

The saddest part, they miss out on their blessed hope while here.

[Time4me2fly]

Hi all. I was just reading the article in the new articles section entitled, ' All means All"and just wanted to put in my two cents worth. I also agree with the writer of this article that there will not be a partial rapture.

I was disappointed like he was when I read the article that he referenced because I also am a fan of the lady whose article he talked about who proposes that not ALL christians will be good enough for the rapture. Even though she didn't mean to, there was no way to not come across as being holier than thou.

God knows our hearts and those who have excepted Jesus will be raptured. We ARE saved by grace and not by works so no one can live a good enough life based on works. I am a sinner, and continue to sin, despite my good intentions. The difference is that as christians, we recognize when we sin, and are convicted of our sin. There will be eternal rewards in heaven for our christian walk and the bible refers to them as crowns. There is the martyrs crown for those who die for there faith, a crown for those who witness, a teachers crown for those who preach and teach the word, and a crown for those who are watching for the lords return (the one all of us here will recieve if no other).

So yes, our walk in this life does matter, as we will carry these proud rewards for eternity( forever for those of you in Berkley). IN other words we will have ranks in heaven, and I believe God will give those more qualified more responsibility in our eternal life, so that alone should inspire us. Will Billy Graham have a higher rank than me in heaven, absolutely, but will God love him anymore than you or me, absolutely not.

I think that focusing on our human fallacies as christians can only discourage new christians or those among us who have more struggles. This doesn't mean that we should ignore our fellow christians bad behavior and accept it. I recently made a very judgemental statement about a local catholic priest based on his effeminate nature in front of my wife. I made this accusation without any other proof . She quickly, and correctly pointed out that I was judging this person, with no good evidence and quite frankly was angry at me, and rightly so. This is what we are to do as christians, support and yes, sometimes correct each other. There has only been one perfect man and it definitely isn't me.

As I told my sunday school class when teaching on the different crowns that believers will receive, I would rather be a private in heaven , than a general in hell. My mansion won't be the biggest in heaven, and my rewards will be few, but I can't wait to get there and be free of this sick, dying , earthly body.

[Steve53]

I was disappointed like he was when I read the article that he referenced because I also am a fan of the lady whose article he talked about who proposes that not ALL christians will be good enough for the rapture. Even though she didn't mean to, there was no way to not come across as being holier than thou.

'Tis far from the first time that particular writer has gone way "off the reservation" and yet another reason why the editorial content of the main site and bulletin board are kept separate. She was wrong in that article and I would suggest to any serious student of eschatology that they pass right on over anything she authors.

[RandallB]

'Tis far from the first time that particular writer has gone way "off the reservation" and yet another reason why the editorial content of the main site and bulletin board are kept separate. She was wrong in that article and I would suggest to any serious student of eschatology that they pass right on over anything she authors.

Completely Agree!

[katt]

One thing I noted you don't get the same out there for the other Rapture Event Timings, only the pre-trib rapture gets the panning we get.

Just as the only religions out there that are not tolerated are..Followers of Jesus Christ and Jews..the question here is why?..

[Theophorus]

I don't know about trying to "discredit" the pre trib rapture but I think it's very healthy to discuss it. What if, for example, it is a pre wrath or mid tribulation rapture? "I have not appointed you to WRATH" for example, and "in this world you WILL have tribulation". Well the bible is pretty clear that the wrath of God is not at the beginning of the tribulation and so many argue that we will in fact experience at least part of the tribulation. It's a fair argument and one I'm still open to. Always "be bereans" and keep examining the scriptures.

[standfortruth]

I suspect that many of those who believe the other points of view concerning the Rapture feel they have to suffer for their salvation; i.e., that they have to be sanctified or purified through suffering before they will be "worthy" to be raptured.

In any event, we are finding that we are being assaulted more and more, and often from places we would never expect.

My thoughts exactly, someone once called us escapists, wanting to run instead of staying and suffering. As if suffering is something to be desired. (not to be confused with suffering for the faith) Hey I'm for getting out of here the sooner the better, they can stay and suffer if that makes them feel better, but count me out.

[HeIsEnough]

My thoughts exactly, someone once called us escapists, wanting to run instead of staying and suffering. As if suffering is something to be desired. (not to be confused with suffering for the faith) Hey I'm for getting out of here the sooner the better, they can stay and suffer if that makes them feel better, but count me out.

They also assume believers don't presently suffer. Perhaps some of it is that they are not suffering presently, hence not having much reason to get out of this world. My experience is that the more the present suffering, the more I want to go home. Escalating suffering isn't going to change any of that for me. People don't think very clearly when they oppose the blessed hope.

[Steve53]

....so many argue that we will in fact experience at least part of the tribulation. It's a fair argument and one I'm still open to. Always "be bereans" and keep examining the scriptures.

If you in fact do the latter and test all things, the former will be revealed as baseless.

[Kliska]

I don't know about trying to "discredit" the pre trib rapture but I think it's very healthy to discuss it. What if, for example, it is a pre wrath or mid tribulation rapture? "I have not appointed you to WRATH" for example, and "in this world you WILL have tribulation". Well the bible is pretty clear that the wrath of God is not at the beginning of the tribulation and so many argue that we will in fact experience at least part of the tribulation. It's a fair argument and one I'm still open to. Always "be bereans" and keep examining the scriptures.

That is ignoring other bits that clarify; the rapture is also taught as an imminent event, and that's why a mid or post trib rapture isn't scriptural. If it were mid or post, we'd be able to predict when it would occur from what we are told in scripture and what would be happening around us. Further, it is indeed God's hand that is involved in starting the trib, and in the first half of it, and He isn't a wife beater.

[Buzzardhut]

That is ignoring other bits that clarify; the rapture is also taught as an imminent event, and that's why a mid or post trib rapture isn't scriptural. If it were mid or post, we'd be able to predict when it would occur from what we are told in scripture and what would be happening around us. Further, it is indeed God's hand that is involved in starting the trib, and in the first half of it, and He isn't a wife beater.

And to be faithful with context of scripture - the pretrib rapture is the only Biblically balanced position. Most people these days interpret scripture by forcing today's news into the passage which is always a FAIL.