Submission Question

[sarah7]

Hello everyone! I've been lurking at rr for years, but just registered today.

I know at one time or another we all have trouble with the submission business. I have been on board and trying hard. I have read Fascinating Womanhood and The Surrendered Wife and Elizabeth Elliot.

My question is, what keeps a husband from beating his wife? We have laws against domestic violence now, but biblically, a husband has the right? I know, he is to love his wife as Christ loves the church, but what if he is on the fence about his faith or worse, uses his wife's faith against her? As in "Look what your God lets me do to you."

I've been a Christian all my life and am having sincere trouble with this. It is getting in the way of my witnessing.

You ladies are great. Thanks so much!

[ImHis]

I don't think God intends for a woman to stay in a relationship where she is being beaten.

Like you said, it's illegal. As soon as it happens, the woman should get herself to safety and press charges.

Get away from him and don't go back unless he repents, secures ongoing counseling/help and sets up some type of Christian accountability. & only MAYBE then....

[wife]

I don't think God intends for a woman to stay in a relationship where she is being beaten.

Like you said, it's illegal. As soon as it happens, the woman should get herself to safety and press charges.

Get away from him and don't go back unless he repents, secures ongoing counseling/help and sets up some type of Christian accountability. & only MAYBE then....

I have to agree here.

[Mitsy]

Sarah7

Our husbands behaviour towards us should be like Christ. God never intended for men to abuse their wives.

I submit to my hubby because the Bible has commanded me to do so. I understand that this all part of God's divine order. If we didn't have headship and authorities we would have kaos.

We live in a fallen world and so there are many who abuse the authority or headship they have been given. God will hold everyone who abuses their authority to account.

[Cd4u_2]

You should obey the bible say instead of listening to a husband ask you to do something illegal and unbiblical. A husband asking you to kill your child is an example where you should listen to the bible instead. An abortion is legal, but it is still unbiblical.

If it is not unbiblical and illegal, then you should leave it to your husband. Choice of schooling is an example of this.

Men who abuses are treating themselves as God, as if they expect their wives to worship the ground they walk on. And this is wrong and is not glorifying the True God in Heaven. As long as women is in this abusive relationship, allowing them to continue in a sin of idolatry, they are not helping their husband at all to repent and turn to Jesus.

[lisa]

If you are in a position of physical danger you (and your children) need to seek some safety while you and hubby seek some counsel and support. No child needs to witness/hear/have knowledge of their mother being abused by their father. Yes, you are to submit to your husband, but if your husband isn't well you need to get safe and find him some help. Be strong in this. Don't cave. You aren't doing him (or yourself or your children) any favors by being weak. He needs to get healthy before anything else.

[sarah7]

Thanks so much for your responses. There is that bit in the bible about obeying current laws (sorry I don't know the passage). And under current laws, a man is in deep trouble for wife abuse.

The bible fits together so perfectly. It's just this submission part had me saying, "Why would God set us up for abuse?" We are so very fortunate to have choices these days. I'm sure many many women have suffered because of having to submit to abusive men.

But it is difficult to find true God-fearing men these days. There are men all over in church, but their motives are varied.

(BTW, I am happily married. I found my dh in 1981 and have been with him ever since!)

Thanks again!

[jorjean]

If you check out what the Bible says, you find that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. When you remember that Christ died for the Church, that may give some prospective. I think the passage you are looking for is in Ephesians 5:22-31. See, there is more in that passage about how a man is to treat his wife, than there is about submission.

[Mitsy]

If you check out what the Bible says, you find that a husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the Church. When you remember that Christ died for the Church, that may give some prospective. I think the passage you are looking for is in Ephesians 5:22-31. See, there is more in that passage about how a man is to treat his wife, than there is about submission.

I say a hearty Amen to that.

[GreenEyedLady]

Thanks so much for your responses. There is that bit in the bible about obeying current laws (sorry I don't know the passage). And under current laws, a man is in deep trouble for wife abuse.

The bible fits together so perfectly. It's just this submission part had me saying, "Why would God set us up for abuse?" We are so very fortunate to have choices these days. I'm sure many many women have suffered because of having to submit to abusive men.

But it is difficult to find true God-fearing men these days. There are men all over in church, but their motives are varied.

(BTW, I am happily married. I found my dh in 1981 and have been with him ever since!)

Thanks again!

It is hard to find a good God fearing man. You never know what you are going to get. I am scared for my daughter and who she might marry. I pray for her now as she is only 11 and her husband.
I think Christ gave woman more freedom than any other religion. He shows love more than any other. I think men who twist the scripture to allow them to be a dictator is so wrong! At the same time, we as wives should submit to our husbands even when we know they are wrong. So many time I have tried to tell my husband he was wrong and he doesn't want to hear it. But when I be quiet and I pray to God about it and ask God to deal with him, it is then that my husband comes to me telling me the exact thing i was praying about! I LOVE that. It is so hard though, not manipulating things so that our husbands do what we want. I have been wrong so many times but then I have been right at times too.
I don't think God really sets us up for abuse. I can tell you, I had no Godly training on how to chose a husband and I don't think anyone else in my family did either. So, really, I chose my husband, I didn't wait for God to chose him for me. In a way, I think many women make their own choice thinking on their emotions instead of waiting on God. This is how they get "stuck" with the abuser. I ended up very lucky and so are alot of my friends and family. There are a few, that I have seen that are no so "lucky." I see these poor ladies and I wonder what it was about the man that they saw? I can see that dominating abusing spirit, why couldn't they see it? I have even warned some ladies and to my surprise even after the beatings and the phone calls and the police they go running back to the man thinking he is going to change. I believe God can change anyone. Even an abuser. I once heard of a woman who walked 3 hours to hear the Word of God preached and 3 hours back only to be beatin by her husband for leaving. She was in Africa. We should pray for these people. Both parties need desperate help.
The bible in no way warrens beating women as the Koran does.

[BlessedinHim]

I was in an abusive relationship for 15 years, struggling and trying to do the "right" thing. At one point in the marriage, I prayed and told God I couldnt continue living like this. My husband had threatened to leave me several times, and I would be like, "oh, dont leave me, please dont leave me" I know sounds so stupid now. But when I prayed, God answered my prayer in the book of Corinthians.

1 Corinthians 7:13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

The next time he threatened me to leave, I let him go and didnt even act anything out. He called about an hour later and asked if he could come home. I told him I never made him leave. Well, of course that is not the end of the story, because he did leave me eventually. But I was glad when he did. His presence in my life was making me have horrible thoughts. I was tired of the abuse. In the course of our marriage he had hit me, spit in my face, poured tea on me, called me everything but a white woman, threw other objects at me, found out later on just how abusive he was to my children as well. God has been good to me through all that, He kept my children sheltered somehow in the midst of the storms then and now they are productive young adults, fairly well adjusted for the things they had been through.

There was another thing, but dont feel like this is the place to put it down. Lets just say, I know he wasnt saved, and that is not a judgement, but based on very concrete evidence. He knew the bible, went to bible quizzes as a kid. But it was all just head knowledge for him. Others thought we had a good little Christian family going on, little did they know, only those closest to me knew what I really went through, well, for the most part.

[hapimom98]

Thanks so much for your responses. There is that bit in the bible about obeying current laws (sorry I don't know the passage). And under current laws, a man is in deep trouble for wife abuse.

The bible fits together so perfectly. It's just this submission part had me saying, "Why would God set us up for abuse?" We are so very fortunate to have choices these days. I'm sure many many women have suffered because of having to submit to abusive men.

But it is difficult to find true God-fearing men these days. There are men all over in church, but their motives are varied.

(BTW, I am happily married. I found my dh in 1981 and have been with him ever since!)

Thanks again!

Are you worried about happening between you and your husband?

I am trying to understand why it would concern you if you are happily married....???

Forgive me if you covered this already.

[hapimom98]

Ok, so you did say this is getting in the way of your witnessing.....so I'm assuming that if the issue of submission comes up with an unbeliever they bring up the old debate of "what if he abuses me?" .....or..... "what if he asks me to do something sinful?"

It is hard to talk about submission to someone who hasn't been born-again yet....it's even hard to talk to some Christians about it 'cuz they have been so brainwashed by the world's views that have been jammed down our throats.

[Mitsy]

EPH 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

It's interesting I was reading Ephesians in my personal Time with the Lord this week. I realised before the submission verses we have this one verse, often missed I guess. Our reason for submission to one another is out of reververence for Christ. So we need to have the right heart attitude before we can submit. The other thing I noticed is that submisssion is required of the following groups.

Wives to Husbands
Husbands to Christ
Children to Parents
Slaves to Masters

All the above could be said to represent a community. Hold that thought!

Those who are being submitted to are also warned to be right in their own behaviour. So it is not a one sided affair leaving those who have to submit in a vunerable position. We all have responsibility in these relationships, both submitter and the one being submitted to.

God is setting up order by which a community can function. Earlier on before all the submission verses we are warned that the days we live in are evil.

EPH 5:15 Be very careful, then, how you live--not as unwise but as wise, 16 making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil.

That is why it is important that we have order so we are able to stand against evil. Notice after all the submission verses in Ephesians we are then told to put on the full armour of God. Why? To stand against Satan! Order and submission is one of the ways we stop evil from overtaking us. It takes obedience to God's Word, selflessness and self control to submit, just like Jesus Christ did.

EPH 6:10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

[ByHisGrace]

TravisandJill,

I asked you a question on the plastic surgery thread, before it was closed. My question is in *NO* way tied to that thread. You posted a little about yourself and your marriage, so I was just wondering what your view on submission was? Thanks.

[TravisandJill]

TravisandJill,

I asked you a question on the plastic surgery thread, before it was closed. My question is in *NO* way tied to that thread. You posted a little about yourself and your marriage, so I was just wondering what your view on submission was? Thanks.

Well until recently I hadnt really understood what submission meant. Its not really a word in our household. I guess I can say that my husband and I both love eachother equally, would die for eachother, would strive to do things to make the other person happy, and both give and help out with a cheerful heart. We both discuss things with eachother before we do them. We never make big purchasses without the others approval. Kinda like a checks and balances system. We both used our own money to buy our homes 50/50, and we are joint owners on everything. My DH doesnt care what I do. I asked him if I should go back to work and he said "do what makes you happy". He never demands things of me. He's a great man.

If I see that he is about to do something that could possibly put us in debt or is a really bad choice I will tell him. I don't blindly follow him, I blindly follow the Lord. We split all cooking and chores 50/50. If you are asking if I follow him like a father figure, then No. We make every decision together and wont do it if the other person isn't happy about it. Why on earth would I stay with a man who was a jerk and constantly did things to make me unhappy? I wouldnt have married someone like that in the first place.

So theres my answer...this is what works for us.

[ByHisGrace]

Sounds like you and your husband have a system that works great for both of you.

[lbeels]

Here is a little excerpt from my Women's Study Bible:

Submission means to put all of yourself-understandings, knowledge, opinions, feelings, energies-at the disposal of a person in authority over you. This never means subjecting yourself to abusive tyranny, nor does it suggest mindless acquiescence to the whims of another. It is the yielding of humble and intelligent obedience- without suggesion of inferiority or worthlessness. A wife's submission is not as much to her husband, a mere man, as it is to God and His plan for marriage.
Relationships in life are merely the classroom for teaching submission to the will of God.

Wisdom is called for in abusive situations. Just like the scripture verse where Jesus says that we are to turn the other cheek and go 2 miles, etc. We aren't to let others abuse and use us in this verse but for example, if someone cuts you off on the road, we are to let it go, not go after them like my husband might and get himself in trouble. Even Christ instructed some of his apostles to sell their goods and buy swords for protection. Anyway, same thing for wives; use wisdom and run from danger.

[hapimom98]

That is excellent, Mitsy. If Jesus wouldn't have placed Himself under submission to the Father....we would be in deep trouble right now.
I find that what you have pointed out is true for me....if I don't have a heart of submission in my marriage, I am out from the covering.

Thanks for sharing.

It's interesting I was reading Ephesians in my personal Time with the Lord this week. I realised before the submission verses we have this one verse, often missed I guess. Our reason for submission to one another is out of reververence for Christ. So we need to have the right heart attitude before we can submit. The other thing I noticed is that submisssion is required of the following groups.

Wives to Husbands
Husbands to Christ
Children to Parents
Slaves to Masters

All the above could be said to represent a community. Hold that thought!

Those who are being submitted to are also warned to be right in their own behaviour. So it is not a one sided affair leaving those who have to submit in a vunerable position. We all have responsibility in these relationships, both submitter and the one being submitted to.

God is setting up order by which a community can function. Earlier on before all the submission verses we are warned that the days we live in are evil.



That is why it is important that we have order so we are able to stand against evil. Notice after all the submission verses in Ephesians we are then told to put on the full armour of God. Why? To stand against Satan! Order and submission is one of the ways we stop evil from overtaking us. It takes obedience to God's Word, selflessness and self control to submit, just like Jesus Christ did.

[Mitsy]

That is excellent, Mitsy. If Jesus wouldn't have placed Himself under submission to the Father....we would be in deep trouble right now.
I find that what you have pointed out is true for me....if I don't have a heart of submission in my marriage, I am out from the covering.

Thanks for sharing.

You're Welcome. It's amazing how the Lord brings things to you and I wanted to share. I'm glad it was encouraging to someone else as well as to me.