Matthew 24 - The Kingdom of Heaven/God

[acceptedintheBeloved]

You all like Grant Jeffrey??

Yes, I like Grant Jeffrey. He is another one who has written (and made a video, if I recall rightly) regarding the fact that Israel became a nation again exactly 2520 years from a significant OT date, in fulfillment of that prophecy (as I mentioned previously).

I believe His Second Coming is also at "a set time". However, I am eagerly awaiting our departure at the rapture!

[ChristIsKing2008]

Me too!

I like Grant Jeffrey too Great teacher.

[Eorlingas]

Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer for me. Has anyone said that the fig tree meant the rebirth of Israel before Israel was remade in 1948?

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer for me. Has anyone said that the fig tree meant the rebirth of Israel before Israel was remade in 1948?

I'm not sure whether I understand your question... but before Israel became a nation again, there were those who believed that Israel WOULD become a nation again, in fulfillment of prophecy.

However, I personally am not aware as to whether anyone (back then, before 1948) regarded "the fig tree" parable, as pertaining to "Israel becoming a nation again", specifically.

But, yes, there were folks who believed that Israel would have to be a nation again, in order for numerous prophecies to be literally fulfilled (as opposed to "spiritually/allegorically" fulfilled, as many others believed they would be or were).

If that wasn't your question, however, please forgive me.

[Mark777]

Here's a question I'm hoping someone can answer for me. Has anyone said that the fig tree meant the rebirth of Israel before Israel was remade in 1948?

That's an excellent question. The only thing I've heard had to do with Ezekiel 38 & 39 where Israel is mentioned. Back in 1917, C.I. Scofield released a study Bible where he had to comment in the notes that it was his belief that Israel would be a nation again one day because the Bible said it would; even though there was not anything to indicate that a reformation of Israel was in the works at the time.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Clarence Larkin was also one who believed Israel would become a nation again, in fulfillment of prophecy. He made some great charts, depicting this... I think it was in 1917, or thereabouts (possibly even before that), when he made these.

I have a few books that were written in the early 1900's... I cannot recall the authors, right now. They also believed that it would come to pass, as the Bible foretold. (Ezekiel 37:1-8 is one place where it is mentioned, I believe. )

[Rockofages]

I am not date setting but this is what I gathered from a website that was actually posted on RR by another child of God. It's interesting: http://www.arewelivinginthelastdays.com/articles.htm
If you go to that site, click on "Generation Not Time or Date" link. Read through it and see what you think. It talks about when Israel, the Fig Tree, became a nation in 1948, you would add 70 years or by "good health" 80... You'll see. I wonder if that's what Jesus meant by the Fig Tree and by Psalms 90.

I got one answer from this website that i really loved. About Luke21 where it says behold the fig tree and all trees. Something that made me stop from believing that maybe fig tree was not supposed to mean Israel in particular. But now my doubts are clear.
They have pointed to Judges Chapter8 or 9 in which the people of Israel are compared to trees and wanting a king over them. And they seperated Matthew and Mark from Luke, saying while Matthew and Mark were mentioning about Israel, Luke was addressing Israel and all its people(It could be all the 12 tribes,I am not sure) but for the first time i have had a convincing explanation from the Bible for "Behold the fig tree and all the trees"

[acceptedintheBeloved]

That's interesting, Rockofages... I have heard that passage explained, too. I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, here... but I have heard that.

I just wanted to add that I do believe that "the fig tree" is related to Israel, in some way, but IMO, is not exactly Israel itself (as a nation)... but is referring more specifically to "law-observant Israel" (as in, "the temple" and such)... for in another story, Jesus said, "A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard..."

The vineyard is Israel (according to Isaiah 5:7, and elsewhere), and the fig tree is something He planted IN the vineyard, i.e. something separate ("the law" and "temple stuff" was given only to Israel).
When this resumes, Israel (at that time) will know that His Second Coming is near. That's pretty much the way I understand it, at this time... but I know that others see "the parable of the fig tree" in Matthew 24:32-33 as representative only of "the signs" that Jesus had just spelled out for them, especially the abomination of desolation, in Matthew 24:15 (so when they see that happen, they'll know His Second Coming is near).

Also, when He told this other story (about the fig tree in the vineyard), He also referred to (and dealt with) the religious leaders of that time (the time of His first coming), so this is how I see the (fig tree in) "relation TO Israel", but not exactly Israel itself, as a nation. Perhaps "all the trees", in Luke 21, is referring to the whole nation of Israel? Whereas "the fig tree" itself is "law-observant Jews" (as in "temple-related" stuff, when it resumes)??? I think I've read that somewhere...
Hope I'm making sense... it's getting late.

I'd like to understand more about what you mean, though, Rockofages. I was just reading, today, the references in Judges 9:8-15 about the trees, as you mentioned in your post (and a commentary on it... but I don't recall anything specific...)

[Rockofages]

That's interesting, Rockofages... I have heard that passage explained, too. I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, here... but I have heard that.

I just wanted to add that I do believe that "the fig tree" is related to Israel, in some way, but IMO, is not exactly Israel itself (as a nation)... but is referring more specifically to "law-observant Israel" (as in, "the temple" and such)... for in another story, Jesus said, "A certain man had a fig tree planted IN his vineyard..."

The vineyard is Israel (according to Isaiah 5:7, and elsewhere), and the fig tree is something He planted IN the vineyard, i.e. something separate ("the law" and "temple stuff" was given only to Israel).
When this resumes, Israel (at that time) will know that His Second Coming is near. That's pretty much the way I understand it, at this time... but I know that others see "the parable of the fig tree" in Matthew 24:32-33 as representative only of "the signs" that Jesus had just spelled out for them.

Also, when He told this other story (about the fig tree in the vineyard), He also referred to (and dealt with) the religious leaders of that time (the time of His first coming), so this is how I see the (fig tree in) "relation TO Israel", but not exactly Israel itself, as a nation. Perhaps "all the trees", in Luke 21, is referring to the whole nation of Israel? Whereas "the fig tree" itself is "law-observant Jews" (as in "temple-related" stuff, when it resumes)??? I think I've read that somewhere...
Hope I'm making sense... it's getting late.

I'd like to understand more about what you mean, though, Rockofages. I was just reading, today, the references in Judges 9:8-15 about the trees, as you mentioned in your post (and a commentary on it... but I don't recall anything specific...)

The website that one of the friend has explained had this explanation.

A parable is a story told to illustrate and bring understanding of truth. With stories of familiar things in the natural or the material world, the Lord Jesus was able to teach important spiritual truths. Only the Scriptures can be used to interpret the parables recorded in them. In other words, Scripture will interpret Scripture. The sign that was to indicate that the physical return of Christ [His 2nd Advent] was near was the rebirth of Israel.

The question that arises when speaking of the fig tree is not what is the fig tree. That point is clear. Virtually every theologian will agree that in the Bible, Israel is referred to as the fig tree. (Hosea 9:10; Joel 1:6-8, 12; Luke 13:6-9; Jeremiah 24; Jeremiah 29:16-19). When Jesus is talking about the fig tree in the Olivet Discourse, he is referencing Jeremiah 24:1-10.

The question that comes up is the fact that in the Gospel of Luke, it is recorded as “Behold the fig tree, and all the trees” where as in Matthew and Mark it is recorded as “Now learn a parable of the fig tree”. This too isn’t really of much debate. There is no difference between the two. The fig tree is Israel and all the trees are the men of Israel (Judges 9:8-20). Matthew and Mark were saying that Jesus said behold Israel while Luke recorded that he said Behold Israel and the men of Israel.

For further clarification, the fig tree is a symbol used in Scripture which always refers to the nation of Israel. Figs were used by Jehovah Himself as a symbol for Israel in a parable recorded in Jeremiah 24:1-2. The Lord then explains that the good figs represent those of Israel whom He would return to the land of their fathers and the bad figs were those of Israel whom He would destroy (Jeremiah 24:4-10).

Trees, when used as a symbol, refer to the men of Israel. The symbol of trees representing the men of Israel can be seen in a parable told by Jotham to the men of Shechem as recorded in Judges 9:7-15 of the Old Testament. The trees Jotham referred to, that had once gone forth to anoint a king over themselves were the men of Israel as recorded in Judges 8:22.

So knowing what the fig tree and the trees of the parables represent, according to the Scriptures, enables one to conclude that when they [the disciples of Christ] see the fig tree begin to bloom [Israel’s rebirth] they should know that summer is near [His 2nd Advent].

[Rockofages]

I already posted one thread about the significance of a parable in Jesus Christ's own words that is to reveal hidden mysteries and the parable of the fig tree is one of the mystery that has a hidden secret that Jesus Christ wanted the believers to understand. If i look at every parable as a secret that had a hidden secret that was revealed by Jesus Christ the i believe fig tree was a sign that Christ wanted His followers to understand. Anyway that thread was removed so i think it is against RR policy to discuss this.

Mat 13:10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mat 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mat 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

Mat 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mat 13:35 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying, I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things which have been kept secret from the foundation of the world.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Okay, gotcha! That is pretty much the way I understood what I had read (I added to my post, after you had quoted me... I'm always so slow! )

I do agree that "all the trees" is referring to Israel as a whole, or as a nation (the "men of Israel", as you say)... but I still think (as I endeavored to explain in my post above) that "the fig tree" represents "the religious leaders" of Israel, specifically (or something of that nature, having to do with "the temple/law-observant Jews")... the commentary I read earlier today said that THAT is what was "not fruitful" at His first coming, and why He cursed the fig tree (after just over three years) and it withered. And, as I said, He began mentioning these things as He began to deal more specifically with the religious leaders of His day (in Luke 13, for example).

[Rockofages]

Okay, gotcha! That is pretty much the way I understood what I had read (I added to my post, after you had quoted me... I'm always so slow! )

I do agree that "all the trees" is referring to Israel as a whole, or as a nation (the "men of Israel", as you say)... but I still think (as I endeavored to explain in my post above) that "the fig tree" represents "the religious leaders" of Israel, specifically (or something of that nature, having to do with "the temple/law-observant Jews")... the commentary I read earlier today said that THAT is what was "not fruitful" at His first coming, and why He cursed the fig tree (after just over three years) and it withered. And, as I said, He began mentioning these things as He began to deal more specifically with the religious leaders of His day.

Yes even i have a belief that fig tree is somehow talking about the spiritual standard of Israel. Anyway let us see as things unfold. Please God i know you are standing at the door please come quickly Lord.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Please God i know you are standing at the door please come quickly Lord.

Amen to that!

[Kvat3r]

Jesus Girl,

I just want to say that the enemy wants us to be discouraged and confused. Who is the author of confusion??? Hint...it's not Jesus.
Our sweet Lord is coming soon. To much is happening for this not to be the season. I've been watching and waiting for a very long time, and I know it is now closer than when I first believed.
My advice, "Keep your chin up...heaven is closer that way." Soon our bridegroom will come. And the time on this earth..even though it seems like an eternity now..will be like a vapor when we finally see him face to face. Think of him wiping away all of your tears. Think of the loved ones you will hold again, think of the joy you will feel that can never again be taken away. Think on these things. Time is short. We all know it. It's just like the enemy to try to come and steal your joy, and confuse your mind. Rebuke him with the word of God.
If you listen closely...you can hear the songs of the bridegroom as he stands at heavens door....waiting for the trumpet to sound. Look UP....don't look around, or behind you..LOOK UP..he's coming soon sweet sister...

We will all be rejoicing in glory soon!!!!! Any request for dinner?? hehe.

[ChristIsKing2008]

Awesome, kvat3r!!
Your post encouraged me! You are a dear sister in Christ
I'm looking up every day. Every day I long for Him to come. Every day is one day closer. Take heart, brothers and sisters! The Lord will be on time (His time, that is )
Soon and very soon, we are going to see the King!!!!

[Caver]

Sis, I want to add my words of encouragement not to be discouraged. Personally, I agree that two separate events are described in the verses you referenced and that scripture is vague enough that we do not know with absolute certainty the number of years that form the outside boundaries of date. I think brother Chuck makes a very valid point that the lack of specificity is not by accident and it serves the Lord's purpose both for us and and a tactic on the dragon.

But Miss Kvat3r makes some excellent points a few posts ago also. Remember, the fig tree and generation definition are but a small part of the description of events describing the outside boundaries of the rapture and the other events clearly and very definitively show us the nearness of our "time". Things are happening now that are the "set up" for the Trib and even a few that are precursors to the Mid-Trib.

So, focusing on this and only this is a "miss direction" play I believe. There are many, many other events to focus in on and when taken together they give a pretty definitive set of conditions/events. When taken together these both give us hope and sure/certain knowledge that we are in the "season" but yet gives the dragon little help.

Think about it..... with all the starts and stops, turns, U-Turns, misdirection events and everything else our Lord must be driving that old dragon nuts in maddening circles trying to stay prepared while giving us the assurance of the nearness of the "time".

Don't get discouraged Sis.....but take heart as you do your job and occupy but still watch in wonder and awe at the complete control God demonstrates daily and the dispare the dragon must feel as he is out maneuvered at each and every important turn.

Also, one of the great, great attributes of brother Chuck is his insistence that there is room for other serious students of God's word to disagree on many parts of scripture. He further admonishes and challenges us to pray for guidance and then read and study ourselves to see where the Holy Spirit takes us individually. When we hit on an apparent inconsistency we are to rejoice because God is getting ready to ravel something to us as we dig deeper to resolve that mystery.

[Iruntherace4Him]

I watched Chuck Missler tonight on his website khouse.org and he said some things I didn't really understand. He was talking about the Olivet Discourse and the differences between Matthew 24 and Luke 21. He said that Matthew 24 talks about the signs and what happens after; in Luke 21 he said Jesus speaks about the signs and what has to happen before. He spoke of the Abomination of Desolation and that the one mentioned in Luke is a different abomination of desolation. He said there are two abominations of desolations. The first happened in 167 BC, I think he said. The next one is certainly the Antichrist sitting in the Holy of Holies. This show was entitled This Generation. I am discouraged because he made is sound like Israel is NOT the fig tree because of what Luke says, "fig tree and all the trees". My thinking was that Israel is the fig tree and that this generation that witnessed the rebirth of Israel, when the world ackowledged them as a nation in 1948, that this was the generation that will witness "all these things", which include the 2nd Coming of Christ. He then discussed that people thought a generation was 40 years, when in Psalm 90 somewhere, David explains the lifespan of a man, which is 70 years and if by blessing, 80 years. Am I wrong? I want Jesus to come for me and all the Bride so much that I can't stop thinking of the Rapture. I hope and long for it, just as I was longing to have my son when I was in labor. The feeling and excitement is the same. I need some ecouragement that the Rapture is close. Chuck Missler did say that the point of the Rapture is to take the devil by surprise, which it will. I am just so confused. I even called my grandma who really admires Joel Rosenberg and is into Bible prophecy, and she didn't really encourage me at all. She just said for me to occupy, which Jesus did tell us to do. Hal Lindsey said he truly believes he will see the Rapture and he's 80 years old! I need you guys... I'm so discouraged....
Here's the Link to Chuck Missler's 66/40. I watch all of them and I just don't get it.
http://www.khouse.org/6640/BP113-1/

Missler goes deep, and it is not unusual for him to go where no man of God has gone before . Gotta love the man for his love of God, but don't have to agree with everything he interprets.

[Hosannah]

Sometimes I wonder too if it is closer than we think or further away. I will see something and say "wow that is odd" and then think that the world is even going down further and then someone (Christian groups) will boycott, send emails, whatever, and the thing will change.

When I heard about the AMA awards and what happened, and then heard that GMA canceled the singer because of the controversy I was thinking that there are still some people out there who care... but then I read that 1500 (FIFTEEN HUNDRED (shouting)) people complained about his "performance". That is not many people. Realizing that Christians most likely will not watch that show, that is the "nonchristian or semichristian" community (good moral people without God?) people who complained. How many millions watched? So sometimes when I see things go for the good (Merry Christmas, performers getting canceled or chastised for being rotten, etc) I think that there is still enough to keep us here longer. It is close to being unbearable but there are still people who care.

Then, I think about how the rapture will take those people out and no one will care any more. I just wonder how far it has to go before we get taken out of here. It is shocking what things are out there for kids to see and shocking that the kids do not see anythng wrong with it.

I do believe that the generation who actually were godly is dying off. I am not sure about the Israel analogy (still new at this) but all the people who were devout bible-toting, believing, Christians are dying off. I see it in my family, now they are all hand-raising, dont tell me I am sinning, I will go to church when it is convenient people who call themselves Christian.

Sorry if this is a confusing post. I am getting a study bible soon and am going to look into all this myself also.

Thanks for RR for being here!!! It is refreshing to come here to read/post/talk with people who know what they are talking about!

[dpetty]

I tend to agree with this post as we are still a good ways away from the Rapture as things have not gotten bad enough, granted evil is rapidly increasing but nothing like what we will see before the rapture. I think we still have 20 or more years to go and I see so many saying it will happen very soon and I hope they do not get disillusioned when it doesn't. Either way we will see trying times that will test our souls!

Yes, Psalm 90 does say what you typed....70 to 80 years.

What would that put us at for expecting the Rapture? 2018 to 2028 at the latest?

That's a grain of sand in the hourglass.

Honestly, I have no idea when it is going to happen. It certainly has the feel it is imminent with the current events of the world.

These are exciting times. Be encouraged with what has been promised to us and encourage others.

Now is not the time to be discouraged.

[ChristIsKing2008]

I think we still have 20 or more years to go and I see so many saying it will happen very soon and I hope they do not get disillusioned when it doesn't.

IMO, I believe the rapture will be closer than 20 years. In fact, I think alot of people would agree with me on here, that with things happening so fast, and how prophecy is being fulfilled around us, we may well be here for another few years at the most, maybe less. Of course, we believe the rapture is imminent, and could happen at any time!