Signs Your Church is Going Seeker- Sensitive

[Anddra]

It's a social gospel

Which leaves people feeling better in the short term while they are still heading to hell ...

[JoelH]

SaintTexas, my new church is doing Bible studies currently at John 6-7. Jesus was quite clear after He did the miracle of feeding 5000 people that the bread of life is infinitely more important than work for food that spoils. i.e. the first's first priority is always preaching the gospel. Of course looking after people's physical needs is important in James 2:15-17 but it is secondary. <><

[SaintTexas]

My posting our former pastor's wife's blog is to agree with you. Please note how sincere she is. She is a very sincere person. But correct teaching is what agrees and comes from God's Word, not being sincere. Reverent fear of the Lord and His Word is far more important than sincerity.

We don't attend there anymore, but the longer their lights are on, the more they fall off into the emergent abyss. They believe they have light and are light, but they are not. It took us a bit of time to understand what we were looking at, but because we were earnestly seeking the Lord, even the time there was used for His glory.

Buzz is correct. It's a social gospel and it's a mess, but from man's perspective, they are successful and the place to be because they are HUGE and growing. Jesus does not measure success like man---read the seven letters to the churches in Revelation! We attend a small but growing Calvary Chapel where there is serious expositional study of God's Word, and it's beautiful and reminds me of big, rich, satisfying Sunday dinners at my grandmother's with my family--and my study in between is like meat and potatoes added to it. I feel well nourished for the first time since I began following the Lord.

There is enough mention of Jesus in this kind of church---the seeker sensitive kind--- that it "seems like" church to the unchurched---their self-admitted main target , to the Catholic who is tired of RCC guilt and systems to some extent but doesn't totally want to abandon works or being placed under the law, or the sensual and worldly who want to hear some awesome contemporary Christian music and wants a a man-centered message (how can I go to church and find out how to have thinner thighs or more sex in my marriage??), the protestant from the dead church, but there is not enough of His Word there that one would be washed clean or even know that one might be a bit dirty to begin with.

I love when our current pastor gives the Gospel invitation and talks about the difference between knowing the Lord Jesus as one's personal Savior and why we need Him to pay for our sin to be paid in full instead of receiving the judgement of God that we deserve and knowing about Him. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard him say this---probably close to 50 now this year--but two things happen. First, I have such joy knowing that I walk with the Lord daily. He cares for me. I love Him. I know Him. I love His Word. Second, I have such sadness for those who don't know Him personally and I am drawn always to pray for hearts and eyes to be open to the Lord immediately. I have sat by my husband while he accepted Christ in April and my son a few weeks ago, praying for them, without knowing it was them who Mike said, "God bless you" and led them in prayer and then ministered to them after the service personally. These emergent churches are leading people into the pit of hell. It never mattered the size of the church---this small church is where the Lord led us---it's their teaching and what they are not teaching. There is no satisfaction in works, and when I know the Lord has used me as His vessel to serve Him for the benefit of someone else, as I have been served many times, I am humbled to tears, knowing that I never deserved to be used but that He is fashioning me for His purposes and plans and it's because He is merciful that He would use me at all and because He is still revealing Himself to me that I might know Him.

It was an interesting time we spent there. The Lord has used it to help us be a voice for Him to others now who are in the same position we were, as only He can use what Satan meant for evil to be used for our good and the benefit of others.

[JoelH]

My posting our former pastor's wife's blog is to agree with you. Please note how sincere she is. She is a very sincere person. But correct teaching is what agrees and comes from God's Word, not being sincere. Reverent fear of the Lord and His Word is far more important than sincerity.

We don't attend there anymore, but the longer their lights are on, the more they fall off into the emergent abyss. They believe they have light and are light, but they are not. It took us a bit of time to understand what we were looking at, but because we were earnestly seeking the Lord, even the time there was used for His glory.

Buzz is correct. It's a social gospel and it's a mess, but from man's perspective, they are successful and the place to be because they are HUGE and growing. Jesus does not measure success like man---read the seven letters to the churches in Revelation! We attend a small but growing Calvary Chapel where there is serious expositional study of God's Word, and it's beautiful and reminds me of big, rich, satisfying Sunday dinners at my grandmother's with my family--and my study in between is like meat and potatoes added to it. I feel well nourished for the first time since I began following the Lord.

There is enough mention of Jesus in this kind of church---the seeker sensitive kind--- that it "seems like" church to the unchurched---their self-admitted main target , to the Catholic who is tired of RCC guilt and systems to some extent but doesn't totally want to abandon works or being placed under the law, or the sensual and worldly who want to hear some awesome contemporary Christian music and wants a a man-centered message (how can I go to church and find out how to have thinner thighs or more sex in my marriage??), the protestant from the dead church, but there is not enough of His Word there that one would be washed clean or even know that one might be a bit dirty to begin with.

I love when our current pastor gives the Gospel invitation and talks about the difference between knowing the Lord Jesus as one's personal Savior and why we need Him to pay for our sin to be paid in full instead of receiving the judgement of God that we deserve and knowing about Him. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard him say this---probably close to 50 now this year--but two things happen. First, I have such joy knowing that I walk with the Lord daily. He cares for me. I love Him. I know Him. I love His Word. Second, I have such sadness for those who don't know Him personally and I am drawn always to pray for hearts and eyes to be open to the Lord immediately. I have sat by my husband while he accepted Christ in April and my son a few weeks ago, praying for them, without knowing it was them who Mike said, "God bless you" and led them in prayer and then ministered to them after the service personally. These emergent churches are leading people into the pit of hell. It never mattered the size of the church---this small church is where the Lord led us---it's their teaching and what they are not teaching. There is no satisfaction in works, and when I know the Lord has used me as His vessel to serve Him for the benefit of someone else, as I have been served many times, I am humbled to tears, knowing that I never deserved to be used but that He is fashioning me for His purposes and plans and it's because He is merciful that He would use me at all and because He is still revealing Himself to me that I might know Him.

It was an interesting time we spent there. The Lord has used it to help us be a voice for Him to others now who are in the same position we were, as only He can use what Satan meant for evil to be used for our good and the benefit of others.

Oh I'm with you here SaintTexas, I was led my God to share what we are studying right now which is related to what you wrote .

It's quite disconcerting to see that a seeker sensitive influenced church could look like a church superficially but doesn't do faithfully what the Heavenly Father commanded. I noticed God has been using lots of things to teach me and help me grow spiritually, but it was only after I moved to the new church that does the expository and undiluted sermons and prayer support. I found that I'm returning to an initial period when I trusted completely the real message of the cross, the struggle with the flesh, and the satanic attacks, and the grace of God sufficient to my needs,...all of these things came flooding back after I quit going to the old church.

[Diane 1611]

Another sign - when your music ministry department changes its name to "worship arts."

[Texas Girl]

Ya, pretty sure this is my church.

[NeverTheLess]

How about when they subcontract out marriage counseling for people who have been members and regularly attending and financially supporting for quite a while. True story, a mega with nada

[Texas Girl]

I am seriously having trouble finding a church that isn't following at least some of these things! UGH!

[Gilgal]

in 2011, the entire staff at our church is committed to reading thru The Message//Remix:Pause-A Daily Reading Bible

[Xian]

I must be the only one on this board who would say that the original post, in theory, describes how our church operates. I can also say, it is the ONLY church (and I've been to quite a few over the years from Southern Baptist to Non Denom) I have been to that desires to see the unsaved, saved and the saved worshiping and serving Jesus. They preach the Bible and they do not take hell lightly.

The others were so wrapped up in their rules and regulations they had more in common with the pharisees than they did with Jesus. They could have cared less about James 1:27, and they left the orphans without families, their neighbors could starve...but they were well-fed by their potlucks every Sunday, they were taught the word but they had NO fruit, the rocks could outdo them in worship....

I'll take my church with a mission statement over those stagnant, dead, "I'm supreme because I sing hymns" churches any day.

[gdaddy2u]

Okay, I don't post much but read alot. I've been attending the same church for 2 1/2 years, (I came to Christ here), but I think they fit this mold. How do I know? There are some things that I have been discussing on RF, which included visiting a new church last Sunday (which was a really odd experience after spending time talking to the pastor), but it so hard to discern this, especialy as a newer christian. I want to lead my wife down the right path (and she feels that it's my job as the head of the house), to a place that is true to Christ and His Word. I mean I think my church is bibically sound but some of the things they do really turn me off, and I have been feeling at odds with them for about eight months, but have begun to wonder if it's me. I will disclose some things if anyone wants to hear them. This thread may be a good place for them as a training piece for others, but can certainly start a new thread.
Help?

andy
only worthy because Christ makes me so

[OnceWasLost]

Okay, I don't post much but read alot. I've been attending the same church for 2 1/2 years, (I came to Christ here), but I think they fit this mold. How do I know? There are some things that I have been discussing on RF, which included visiting a new church last Sunday (which was a really odd experience after spending time talking to the pastor), but it so hard to discern this, especialy as a newer christian. I want to lead my wife down the right path (and she feels that it's my job as the head of the house), to a place that is true to Christ and His Word. I mean I think my church is bibically sound but some of the things they do really turn me off, and I have been feeling at odds with them for about eight months, but have begun to wonder if it's me. I will disclose some things if anyone wants to hear them. This thread may be a good place for them as a training piece for others, but can certainly start a new thread.
Help?

andy
only worthy because Christ makes me so

A thread will likely get a bit more replies than updating a Sticky.

I would love to have this in the open forum, and feel free to tell us the stuff that bugs you.

[The bearen]

I found this article by a former Hillsong member in brisbane Lance Goodall

http://www.christian-witness-ministr...ne-campus.html

Lance makes some very interesting observations.
Dave

[JustGrateful]

Sorry if this is a stupid question...but...is this Hillsong Church related to the Hillsong music group with Darlene Zschech?

Thanks!

Found the answer....yes, they're the same. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsong_Church

Dang.....bummer. Everything and everyone I liked is crashing and burning. I keep getting directed back to solo Christo and sola scriptura. *sigh*

[The bearen]

Yes I believe it is I am not saying that folks are'nt blessed by Hillsongs. I love Darlene's 'Shout to the Lord' she is a very gifted singer/songwriter but I was saddened to see a clip on youtube of her singing promoting a catohlic youth rally.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKWPBMq7HzU
Dave

[Diane 1611]

I believe this blog entry. We recently left a church that sings a lot of Hillsong music. Most of the newer (like the last couple of years) Hillsong songs don't have Jesus' or God's name in them at all. The older material is fine. The church mentioned in the blog sounds an awful lot like the church we left. We now attend a Calvary Chapel which will occasionally do an older Hillsong song but those songs are fine.

[watchwoman]

This is a great article! . I'm sure many on this board can relate to what this man saw happen in his church.


Mods, it would make a great addition to the "How to Tell if Your Church is Going Seeker Sensitive" sticky in the Apostasy forum.

[RosettaLuv]

Wow. A real eye-opener. My youth group loves Hillsong and we usually sing their songs for worship; we even went to one of their concerts just recently. Man, this sucks. All the things I thought are Christian now I have to question their authenticity. It stinks now Hillsong has gone down the apostate road.

[Mr. Duffee]

Wouldn't that Joel Osteen fella be considered seeker-sensitive?

Is seeker-sensitive where you have this cult of personality around the leader who demands "love gifts" of money, cars, and clothes, but who never once mentions Jesus or the Bible?

I've heard of churches like that in Atlanta and in D.C.

Sounds like those group retreats that corporations have to develop "synergy" and being a "team player."

Otherwise, I've never heard of this stuff before.

[Mr. Duffee]

Wow! Some of the things I'm reading in this thread just sound straight-up evil and bankrupt.

Glad I go to a plain vanilla evangelical church with a pastor on fire for Jesus! Although, we rarely talk about prophecy.