The books are excellent in that the return of Christ is brought to the forefront, where it should be, where many churches are shamefully amiss, forces men to deal with their fears on meeting the Lord.
Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.
I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.
I just finished the Left Behind series last night--for the second time. I had picked up the prequels and read them, and that led to me re-reading the entire series.
This book series was the catalyst that brought me to my knees begging my Lord for forgiveness the first time I read it. It was this series that had me, jaw dropped, wide-eyed, asking, "Is this really in the Bible?" Because of this series, I started to actually read my Bible. It started with just the passages stated in the books, but would lead me to read beyond those passages. It was through this search, brought on by this specific book series, that the Lord graciously allowed me to really see for the first time. I had such a hunger for the Lord and His Word. He fully removed the scales from my eyes, and I was born again.
I have also read the Christ Clone Trilogy, which is so graphic and intense and sort of makes the Left Behind Tribulation look like a walk on easy street. It could be because of the perspective from which the books are written. Left Behind has a more positive slant during the Trib because it is written through the lens of believers. In the Christ Clone Trilogy, the main characters--through whom the story is told--are unbelievers. This would naturally make the books darker and scarier. In fact, Book Two of that series is so convincingly written from that deceptive point of view, that I threw the book across the room in frustration. LOL. Even more amusing, I warn every one I loan the books to that they must keep in mind there are THREE books, and that I have not become some freaky-deaky new-ager. The book still comes back a little more rumpled each time. Another thing, which is disconcerting for some, is that the AC in CCT is very, very likable--nothing like the phony character of Nicolae Carpathia.
I know that you have little strength, yet you have kept my word and have not denied my name. Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth. (Rev. 3:8,10)
I'm a Navy mom.
The Left Behind books were what ignited my interest in prophecy. I forget now how I came to read the first one, but it sparked an interest that got me back to church and back to faith.
Chang was past the age of accountability; therefore, he had more mental awareness than a babe to decide who he was going to worship, but had no desire to take the mark. He was able to make an informed decision as to whom he was going to worship, and he chose to become a believer and worship God prior to the mark being forced on him while drugged. While it's true that all who are left behind will be forewarned by angels about not taking the mark and warned not to worship the beast, Chang was given the mark against his will, hence setting up an interesting (and obviously controversial ) plot line because it takes place outside the Church Age, and at a time when eternal security is no longer guaranteed. That's why Chang was so worried, and actively asked others what would happen to him since he had no choice in the matter.This part struck me as off too, however, it made me wonder what about babies born in the tribulation faced with taking the mark, they will have no more desire for or against it than the fella who was knocked out. If we look at this scenario, then will they just kill all babies, take a parents word for it and either mark them or not, or will they be supernaturally protected....only God knows for sure, I often wonder about babies from history before Jesus and the age of grace, what happened to them?
Many feel that there was no need to stir up a hornet's nest by adding this plot twist, but it is an interesting scenario. I don't think it would be unusual for a person to ask a doctrinal question along those lines, so I guess that's why it never bothered me when reading the books. It's my feeling that if a person has no choice in a matter, then they can't be held accountable. That's just based on common sense, and I have no Scripture to offer for it. I don't believe the Bible addresses the question: What if a true believer wakes up and looks in the mirror one morning and realizes he/she has been given the mark against his/her will?
Compare that to people who have not yet mentally matured to a point of accountability. Those people, unlike Chang, truly won't have a desire or know any better. All babies are born in sin, so if they are required to be able to distinguish between good and evil (while not being born during the Church Age), then they would be doomed from the get-go if they died before knowing any better. That just makes no sense because there is no choice involved. It is my belief that all children who are under the age of accountability will be saved just as they've always been during the Church Age, and before the age of grace, even at a time when Old Testament saints didn't have eternal security.
Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.
2 Samuel 12:21-23
In the Old Testament, David was comforted with the thought that his child was in heaven and that he would one day be with him again.
Because Scripture supports God's mercy on children who had no knowledge about good and evil before the Church Age, I don't see why that would change after the Church Age, nor have I read any Scripture that says differently.
And even considering accountability, when there's an angel flying around yelling out what happens in no uncertain terms if you take said mark, I would imagine said age of accountability would be very young indeed for this case. You might even go so far as to say that *ALL* who take the mark will burn, as scripture states.
Then again on that line it also says all men to take it, so maybe children won't have to make the choice, and then yet again it says it's forced on all great and small, so maybe they will.
Personally I don't think there are going to be any "knock them out and put it on them" events. I think it will be a simple choice: mark or death. After all, they aren't going to want someone who may betray them on their side anyway.
There are two groups who have supernatural protection during the trib. The first are the two witnesses, and it should be pointed out that even they die. The second is the group of 144,000 (12k each of the tribes). That's not to say I don't think there will be any miracles for those left behind, I'm sure there will be, but not a blanket protection as the scriptures indicate they'll be slaughtered.
I think some of you are missing the point of the mark of the beast. The mark is a choice between Christ and the AC, and people will take the mark willingly, then worship the beast. In my opinion I doubt people will be forced to take the mark because Revelation is clear that those that refuse to take the mark, and worship the beast will lose their heads. If death was not a consequence for refusing the mark then they could force the mark, against ones will, upon anyone in many different ways. This is why it is a choice to be made, not a mark to be forced upon people. The AC's goal is to purposely steal souls away from God, and you can't do that by force upon those that have already chosen God.
A good example of this would be Shadrach, Meshech, and Adednego who were told to worship the golden false god, but they refused. Guards weren't sent to beat them until they fell upon their knees, nope, they were immediately put in the fire for execution.
With Chang, I thought Ag_man was trying to indicate that the scenario was not plausible to begin with. I might be getting that wrong, but it's what I remember thinking. The Bible is really plain about the MOB, however, God is a God of grace. The authors' point may have been an illustration of this, and as far as the story line, this is what I would think they were trying to portray. I have trouble with the scenario to begin with though because it does not line up with what It plainly says about those who take the mark to begin with, so it's just troublesome all the way around.
Since when are Trib saints OSAS? They have to persevere until death or the Lord returns. The Church is the only group who cannot be lost ever because we are the only group who is sealed with the Holy Spirit.
We can't say for sure what is or isn't going to happen to those during the tribulation. As I have already stated the mark is a choice that one has to make. You must choose during the trib between God or Satan. Satan cannot be forced upon you.With Chang, I thought Ag_man was trying to indicate that the scenario was not plausible to begin with. I might be getting that wrong, but it's what I remember thinking. The Bible is really plain about the MOB, however, God is a God of grace. The authors' point may have been an illustration of this, and as far as the story line, this is what I would think they were trying to portray. I have trouble with the scenario to begin with though because it does not line up with what It plainly says about those who take the mark to begin with, so it's just troublesome all the way around.
Please provide scripture that shows people coming to Christ following the rapture can lose their salvation. I have never heard this teaching.... Wouldn't that make this scripture contingent upon time, but the scripture has no asterisks or void after this time...:Since when are Trib saints OSAS? They have to persevere until death or the Lord returns. The Church is the only group who cannot be lost ever because we are the only group who is sealed with the Holy Spirit.
Jer 32:40 I will make with them an everlasting covenant, that I will not turn away from doing good to them. And I will put the fear of me in their hearts, that they may not turn from me.
The Holy Spirit will be removed for the rapture, but will be here during the trib for those that come to Jesus.
If the Old Testament Saints couldn't reverse their circumcised hearts, then why do you see a difference with Tribulation Saints?
If what you are saying is that if someone truly believes, they believe (and if they waiver, they will go to the Lord and repent for their waiver as well---like the man who said to the Lord that he believed but asked Him to help his unbelief) and will put their lives on the line for it, lose it if that is what it comes to, they will never recant their salvation, period, willing to suffer for the Lord no matter what comes their way and just absolutely trust that the Word of the Lord is true and never turn from Him, then that is absolutely true.
They are not sealed by the Holy Spirit though. That is only for the Church. The 144,000 are the only ones said to be sealed in Revelation 7:3. The scriptures never say that any other believer is sealed during the Tribulation, though I know that the Left Behind series depicts that they have a mark on their forehead by the Lord. The two witnesses are said to be given authority (Rev 11:3). With all that fire breathing and turning water into blood and shutting off the rain and striking plagues on the earth, they seem to have their situation under control through these things the Lord has given them quite well! There are quite a few mentions of the patience/perseverance of the Trib saints throughout Revelation.
Do we agree now?
I loved the Left Behind series, read them twice. I think as far as Buck and Chloe getting married, they just got saved after the rapture, so this is all new to them, they really had no idea what was coming. So I don't think that is a stretch.
I am going to go check out The Christ clone trilogy,sounds great!
[QUOTE=razberry;1947771"Any man" would include tribulation believers as well, imo. It's a new dispensation. It will be a another new dispensation during the millineum. No one will need faith. They'll know that Jesus is alive and well, ruling from Jerusalem.[/QUOTE]
No one will need faith in the Millenium? Salvation has always been through faith in the Lord. Remember what the purpose of the God's instructions are (The Law, the Prophets, the Psalms) according to Paul in Romans? I am paraphrasing but to come to know sin except through the Law that those who are under it might put their faith in the Lord's promise of a Messiah for them--see the first 8 chapters as Paul puts all groups of people on trial about this very thing. They still had to have faith as practicing the Law was done in faith (well, for the faithful, it was). Did that even make any sense? LOL See Romans! Paul says it well.
And before the Law was given, Noah believed God, was the only man on earth living rightly before the Lord (that implies faith) when the flood came. Interesting tidbit---one of my kids and I are in this part of Genesis right now and just talked about this this morning. Noah's three sons are mentioned all together---they possibly were triplets and no other sons or children are ever mentioned as coming after the flood either---they had to have been 100. Noah had them when he was 500 years old (Gen 5:32) and when the flood came, Noah was 600 years old, which would make his sons 100 years old (Gen 7:6). Thought that was interesting when we read it today.
Abraham is the father of faith. He was credited righteousness because he believed God. Same with Isaac and Jacob, Moses.....check out Hebrews 11--it's the faith hall of fame!
Isaiah 65:20 says speaking of the Millennial Reign of Christ, "“No longer will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his days; for the youth will die at the age of one hundred and the one who does not reach the age of one hundred will be thought accursed.” My understanding of this verse (and I can get further teaching on it if you would like) is that one who does not commit themselves as a faithful believer in the Lord Jesus at that time will be "accursed" and dies as a result. No one at the end of the Millennial Reign, after Jesus is done with Satan completely and these who are unbelievers and rebellious (this shows btw the wickedness that is in our own hearts without Satan doing anything at all to influence us and should lead all those folks to faith in Christ---I did think the Left Behind series did a good job on this part--read Kingdom Come---it's the 16th book--if you want their take on it--they go over this passage and use it in their depiction) will enter into eternity unbelieving. A person cannot enter into the MR or into eternity unbelieving. They can rebel and not believe during the MR.
That would also mean that when Satan is let loose again at the end of the MR for a time that those who rise up against the Lord would be less than 100 years old.
When the MOB is presented, it's true purpose will also be presented. When people take the MOB they will know that it's purpose is to show allegiance to the AC, people will not be taking it unknowlingly or without knowing the reason behind taking it so if someone takes it they are not nor have they ever been a Tribulation Saint. I believe that the only thing that will make a person a Tribulation Saint is their "endurance to the end" meaning they either lose their head for not agreeing to worship the beast or God protects and carries them through the Tribulation into the MK.