Joseph Prince *MERGED*

[OnceWasLost]

I apologize. I didn't mean to preach false doctrine or promote someone who is teaching it.
You said "tisk" when I asked about WOF. Why?
If I don't know who they are, it's an honest question.
And with the "tisk" symbol, I took your response to be judging my motives toward the bad. Which I feel you just founded by making this post.
Even though I'm not sure I understand it.
But don't judge that statement wrong either. I completely understand that it's God's will. What I don't understand, is the personality behind the words.


And in actuality, my motives were simply to be informed.

Sorry for that impression, my contempt is for the doctrine taught by WOF salesmen. We cannot force God's hand by some faith formula, yet the crefflo dollars, kenneth copeland side of the faith teach that if we get the formula correct, we can get whatever we want.

I once heard fred price say with total contempt "Don't let the faith destroying words, if it's your will, escape from your mouth" That is classic WOF heresy and makes God into a vending machine for people to get their heart's desire.

My earlier post was not directed at you.

[ThatDude]

Thank you eleventhhour and Lvanett, and everyone else who took the time to explain to me. I'm new to Christian T.V. It's good to know what to look out for.
My idea of a good teacher is someone who wants to get you closer to God and that's how I took some of the preachers I seen on T.V.
But I didn't know to much of their back ground.

Thatdude...did you by chance watch that video I posted on the other thread? Scroll up this one and you'll see the link to the other thread.

Yeah, I watched it and it made me laugh.
I live in Michigan and I've been to some old school Detroit churches that preach some of that good 'ol down home Gospel. Like what you would have seen in the Blues Brothers movie.

The video reminded me of that kind of Gospel preaching. Did you notice? The one guy who didn't have his arms in the air was looking around, like whats going on?

Here is the kind of Christian I am. I believe that God's goal, is to get us as close to him as possible. And he will bless us. Maybe not with wealth, (for our own benefit) but certainly with what we need to elevate him.
And in the process of getting closer to God and understanding how to promote the Gospel, we'll wind up happier for it.

And according to what I've read here about WOF, there is a very thin line between what they preach and what the truth is. Which is disturbing to say the least.
Because you know, only someone who has felt the Spirit can know how to preach like some of these people do. Which also means, they're using their understanding of the Spirit to manipulate the system and not actually acting on the Spirit.

[OnceWasLost]

Thank you eleventhhour and Lvanett, and everyone else who took the time to explain to me. I'm new to Christian T.V. It's good to know what to look out for.
My idea of a good teacher is someone who wants to get you closer to God and that's how I took some of the preachers I seen on T.V.
But I didn't know to much of their back ground.


Yeah, I watched it and it made me laugh.
I live in Michigan and I've been to some old school Detroit churches that preach some of that good 'ol down home Gospel. Like what you would have seen in the Blues Brothers movie.

The video reminded me of that kind of Gospel preaching. Did you notice? The one guy who didn't have his arms in the air was looking around, like whats going on?

Here is the kind of Christian I am. I believe that God's goal, is to get us as close to him as possible. And he will bless us. Maybe not with wealth, (for our own benefit) but certainly with what we need to elevate him.
And in the process of getting closer to God and understanding how to promote the Gospel, we'll wind up happier for it.

And according to what I've read here about WOF, there is a very thin line between what they preach and what the truth is. Which is disturbing to say the least.
Because you know, only someone who has felt the Spirit can know how to preach like some of these people do. Which also means, they're using their understanding of the Spirit to manipulate the system and not actually acting on the Spirit.

Glad you are here with us.

A classic belief in WOF circles is you get prosperity, health etc by confessing it. They make faith a means to an end, but there is an inherent flaw in the theory. It supposes we know best and can make God's mind up for Him. No need to consult Him, we just claim it.

Now when people want stuff or physical wellness they are given a formula. When the formula doesn't yield the intended result, the WOF preachers blame the petitioner for not having enough faith. This is despicable and evil to it's core. People have fallen away from God thinking He has rejected them because the formula didn't work, all the while not realizing it's a lie.

Here are a few passages that kill the theory.

The entire book of Job. He was righteous, confessed and yet his calamity continued.

In Acts 3 a man was healed when Peter told him to rise and walk. The man who was healed never sought healing, he was begging for money. How much faith then dd he have? ZERO!

Mark 5:22 a man comes to Jesus and begs that Jesus heal his daughter who was dead by the time Jesus arrives. She is brought back to life. How much faith did the dead girl have? ZERO! just like Lazarus in John 11

And there was a woman who was healed, and she had faith that Jesus could heal her. Mark 5:25

All this leads to one conclusion, that is, God heals and blesses as an act of His divine will. We are encouraged to ask (James 4) but to do so in a correct manner and realize God decides.

Father Knows Best!

[Nightelf]

ThatDude, you wondered what the WOF'ers would get for treasure in heaven?

That's a good question.

Sometimes the Lord gives us exactly what we want.... heaven help them if He decides to give them "their best life now" (WOF'er Joel Osteen's mantra) - and that's it.

[Lvanett]

OWL, you are so right. The easy way to distinguish prosperity or WoF gospel between the true gospel is this:
The prosperity gospel says tell God what you want HIM to do.
The true gospel says God tells you what He wants YOU to do.

The prosperity gospel places emphasis on self-gain for yourself.
The true gospel places emphasis on losing all for Him.

[Nightelf]

My impression, from seeing WOF'ers in action every day up close and personal at work, is that God is just there to save them and give them a wonderful life. He's there to provide big houses, big cars, lots of cash, excellent health, trips to the Bahammas, perfect children, the list goes on.

I'm disgusted that they reduce my Lord to a genie in a bottle.

[Lvanett]

I hope this won't get deleted (not sure if this is OK to say), but I think the Lord feels the same way. I don't think He wants us to see Him as just a "Gimme God." He wants us to learn about Him, be like Him, obey Him, and have an intimate relationship. Anyone who follows the WOF movement is missing out on that.

[jc_mum]

I was searching about Joseph Prince last night and was led here.

As I have seat in Pastor Prince ministry for 4 years plus, I like to share my experience here.

I was led by Lord to come to New Creation Church to accept Him in 2006. As someone new to Christianity, I received in full the message Lord preached through Pastor Prince.

I even have to get Jesus to manifest His Spirit of Wisdom and Understand fully for me to know what He wanted to tell me.

Lord leads me on a journey to know Him. When I had wrong believes, Lord led Pastor Prince to preach the truth and He knocked my head to receive it.

Why Pastor Prince did not preach confess of sin? Bec if you keep looking at what devil leads you, when will you have time to look to Jesus?

I was facing Satan attack nighty for 3 yrs that I ran to Christ. He delivered me in 3 months when I believed I am the Righteousness of God in Christ, All My Sins were judged in the body of Jesus and I received His Righteousness of God instead. Abba Father promised not to impute sin on me. I am made free of all bondage!

As I believe so, devil realise he could not put fear in me anymore and left. Glory to Jesus. I cast All his 3 yrs of heavy burden on me to Abba Father and He gladly took over.

Lord has led me to finish reading His Bible, meditates the New Testament and now in the process of meditating the Old Testament. I am at Joshua currently.

All these revealing about Jesus, as I feast on them I grow in the Lord. He let me realised I am just a breath. But when I realised even the breath is given by God, the Father, I realised I am nothing in Christ.

When I become nothing in Christ, Lord can come fully in me and through me.

It is sitting under the ministry of Revealing Jesus that I walked closer and closer to Lord. He had shown me His Mighty and colourful love for me. He had shown me His Resurrection power that is beyong words in mightiness. He had brought me to His Palace that the mightiness of the Resurrection power banged on me and through me that I was still standing there because the blood of Jesus redeemed me fully. I could felt death could not stand it too.

It is with the learning of what Jesus has done for me and how much Abba Father has loved me that Now, Lord walks with me fully.

Don't continue talking about Sins or if Pastor Prince is speaking the Truth. Lord leads me to Him to learn about Jesus so that I could fellowship with Him in the garden of Eden. Go learn about Jesus and your rights as a child of God! Shalom!

[iSong6:3]

jc_mum - Don't we need to acknowledge the reason we needed a Savior (Jesus)? Because we're sinful people who have no other way to God?

Biblical doctrine is as important to our souls as air, water and food are to our bodies. We are to check every teacher/teaching to see if they are Biblical. There is a lot of trouble with Joseph Prince, therefore we can't just ignore it.

[Faith&Hope]

Has anyone here seen Pastor Joseph Prince preach? I believe his church is in Singapore. I think he's very good. He did a beautiful sermon on Psalm 23 explaining it so beautifully, in a way I have never heard that Psalm preached. He also does a beautiful sermon on the prodigal son, that brought me to tears. Just wondered if anyone else watches him. Thoughts?

[Stacey]

I've watched a few of his shows and I wasn't really diggin it. Doesn't seem right to me. To teach grace is important yes but God still gets upset with his kids. Which is why we have a conscious so the Holy Spirit can speak to us to live our lives for him and as best we can. Think about a kid and a parent. I love my kids no matter what unconditionally when they mess up tho I want an apology to whoever they wronged me included. God is the same way he loves us no matter what we do right or wrong but he still wants us to be sorry for what we had done and try not to do it again. I don't believe that oncebu repent when first saved u don't have to do it again.

[EarsToHear]

Has anyone here seen Pastor Joseph Prince preach? I believe his church is in Singapore. I think he's very good. He did a beautiful sermon on Psalm 23 explaining it so beautifully, in a way I have never heard that Psalm preached. He also does a beautiful sermon on the prodigal son, that brought me to tears. Just wondered if anyone else watches him. Thoughts?

I was impressed with his heartfelt preaching at first, too, years ago. But watching more, it became apparent that his statements about prosperity in some sermons given in the t.v.-slick, flashy preaching style clearly showed that he belonged in the TBN box along with Paula White, Frederick Price, T.D. Jakes, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin, Kenneth Copeland, etc.

Insert "L" in "WOF"

[readytofly]

Thatdude...did you by chance watch that video I posted on the other thread? Scroll up this one and you'll see the link to the other thread.

I believe a lot of Jesus' anger at those selling and exchanging in the Temple was because those men were making a profit in G-d's House!! When these preachers (and I'm including ones I have backed up as well) constantly sell books and DVD's (OF SERMONS) and such, it DOES bother me.

And yes, JP starts out his book talking about wealth and when "the Lord" told him to change his message about grace, he said the numbers in his church went from small to HUGE (paraphrasing) and when that happened he realized that was confirmation.

Even the cover says "Destined to Reign"- The Secret to Effortless Success, Wholeness and Victorious Living.

A lot of the focus in WOF is "self." What they can receive from G-d. Whether it be feeling, excitement, the wow and wonders. If people are loud and excited, and I have heard this MANY a times growing up,..."the Lord was present" they'd say!

What I would like to say to them...What about those who are CURRENTLY being persecuted, beaten, burned, gouged, maimed, etc for the sake of the gospel being spread, while they boast about 'the Lord wants us to know the secret to effortless success, wholeness and victorious living'...buying every latest BOOK, going to the latest conference, etc....when what they need is THE BIBLE and sore knees and some lotion for their ears. Period.
No, we cannot outgive G-d, but THEY use that phrase to pad their own pockets just like the men in the Temple when OOPS! Jesus did not show love...but ANGER!
I'm sure there were some who accused Jesus of being judgmental as well! :twitch

This is soooooo true!!!!! Exactly right! So much false teaching.. apostasy running amuck in this country! People need to be like the "Bereans" ; who searched the scriptures daily to see if what they were being taught was true. Act 17:11
We need to know the whole counsel of God!
2nd Timothy 4:11 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from truth, and be turned aside to fables."
This type of teaching appeals to the flesh, and fleshly desires; that is why it is so attractive and people buy into it. Who doesn't want to be healthy, wealthy, prosperous, having your best life now, no worries all is great! Unfortunately that all ended with the fall in the garden of Eden...Jesus is coming again tho...oh glorious day, and we will finally know what glory awaits us, and we will finally be free from the trials and tribulations that we experience here in this sin cursed world. Praise the Lord!! I cannot wait!

[HeartReadyFleshWeak]

What is WOF - word of faith, mean?

[OnceWasLost]

What is WOF - word of faith, mean?

Speak your reality into being, if you have enough faith you can obligate God to give you whatever you want. Some salesmen of this poison say your will trumps God's will.

[HeartReadyFleshWeak]

Speak your reality into being, if you have enough faith you can obligate God to give you whatever you want. Some salesmen of this poison say your will trumps God's will.

OK, so this is un-biblical. Now the above conversations make more sense to me. Thanks!

[Nightelf]

Speak your reality into being, if you have enough faith you can obligate God to give you whatever you want..........

....... because you are a little "god". They say that just as horses beget horses, chickens beget chickens, so Gods beget gods because man is made in God's image, therefore we are "little gods" and have this ability to create something from nothing.

Blasphemous scripture twisting 101 at it's finest.

[OnceWasLost]

OK, so this is un-biblical. Now the above conversations make more sense to me. Thanks!

Glad to clear it up.

....... because you are a little "god". They say that just as horses beget horses, chickens beget chickens, so Gods beget gods because man is made in God's image, therefore we are "little gods" and have this ability to create something from nothing.

Blasphemous scripture twisting 101 at it's finest.

Or not so finest.

This one is close to home for you Ma'am. Those who believe this are so hard to reach, they are as brainwashed and loyal to their salesman it's hard to get anywhere with them.

The insidious thing about this is it appeals to one of man's most basic vises, greed. If I am gonna aim, aim big, since God is paying the bill right?

Wrong.

[Nightelf]

Glad to clear it up.



Or not so finest.

This one is close to home for you Ma'am. Those who believe this are so hard to reach, they are as brainwashed and loyal to their salesman it's hard to get anywhere with them.

The insidious thing about this is it appeals to one of man's most basic vises, greed. If I am gonna aim, aim big, since God is paying the bill right?

Wrong.

Oh yes.

My ex-boss (did you know I quit my job there because I couldn't handle selling idolatrous and apostate merchandise anymore?) her husband is a real estate agent. They found out that our house finally sold (praise the Lord!!!!) and he can hardly wait to take us out and show us some 5-bedroom mansions that would be "perfect for us" Of course, if he persuades us to buy an expensive house he gets a nice commission which he needs to gas up his Hummer.

His face fell to the floor when I gently told him that until my husband found a job, we would just be banking the money and doing our best to survive off the interest and would not be in the market for a house maybe for a very long time. I got a little lecture about having faith and trusting God more (read: Don't be afraid to live beyond our means and go back into debt) but I was holding a garden hose at the time (we were out in the yard and I was watering dad's flowers) so he didn't push it as I was threatening to shower him with blessings of my own.

[OnceWasLost]

Oh yes.

My ex-boss (did you know I quit my job there because I couldn't handle selling idolatrous and apostate merchandise anymore?) her husband is a real estate agent. They found out that our house finally sold (praise the Lord!!!!) and he can hardly wait to take us out and show us some 5-bedroom mansions that would be "perfect for us" Of course, if he persuades us to buy an expensive house he gets a nice commission which he needs to gas up his Hummer.

His face fell to the floor when I gently told him that until my husband found a job, we would just be banking the money and doing our best to survive off the interest and would not be in the market for a house maybe for a very long time. I got a little lecture about having faith and trusting God more (read: Don't be afraid to live beyond our means and go back into debt) but I was holding a garden hose at the time (we were out in the yard and I was watering dad's flowers) so he didn't push it as I was threatening to shower him with blessings of my own.

I so hate how WOF puts people in bondage to their greed, and then when the formula fails people feel God has abandoned them