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Thread: ~ Children In Heaven ~ 2 Cor 1:3-4

  1. #1
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    Cross ~ Children In Heaven ~ 2 Cor 1:3-4

    I firmly believe that children who die before they're too young to understand the concept of sin and the need for salvation go to Heaven, regardless of whether their parents are in a relationship with Jesus or not. Needless to say, they will be resurrected when God Raptures all living Christians and resurrects all dead Christians. No exceptions, even if their parents died lost.

    Third, I believe that the requirements for taking part in the Rapture are the same as those for getting saved. If you're saved, born again, redeemed--take your pick!--you will be caught up. You might be caught in up a backslidden state, but you will be caught up.

    Once more, here is where the age of accountability comes into play. Since I believe the requirements for getting saved (and then being resurrected, if you die) and the requirements for getting Raptured are one and the same, and since I believe that children who die before the age of accountability go to Heaven and will be resurrected when the time comes (even if their parents are lost), then I also believe that all living children below that age will be Raptured when the trumpet blows, whether their parents are saved or not. To say otherwise is to say that a child can ride to Heaven on his parents' coattails, and as I said above, that, the Bible says, simply cannot be done. Either he accepts Jesus and goes to Heaven, or he's too young to accept Jesus and therefore is counted innocent in God's eyes (and thus gets Raptured if alive, or resurrected if dead). Remember, the moment when the trumpet blows is a package deal, the end of a dispensation. It is the moment when all who died in Christ and all who lived in Christ, from Pentecost on, will be given new resurrection bodies. (Those who lived in the Old Testament era and the early New Testament era before the Church became reality, and the Tribulation believers who die, must wait till Jesus comes back before they can get theirs.) That certainly includes all children under the age of accountability who have lived in the Age of Grace from its beginning until now. God does not have 2 sets of requirements for participating in the resurrection of dead Christians and for participating in the Rapture of living ones--they are one and the same. For children too young to understand as well as for older believers, regardless of whether their parents know or knew Jesus or not.

    Now--for those of you who believe that innocent young children whose parents are unsaved can expect to bear the blast and fury of God's wrath in the Tribulation instead of being counted innocent in God's eyes, go ahead!



    Yours truly,
    Kathy G.
    Last edited by kgreen20; June 9th, 2007 at 10:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Cd4u Guest

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    This sort of thing is something you have to trust the Lord's wisdom that he knows what he is doing, and whatever he does is for the best.

    Because if they all go to heaven, then mothers will think abortion is better than allowing them to be born and die in hell.

    But if all babies go to hell, then most mothers who lost their babies would not want to have anything to do with God.

    God could be silent on this because of those reasons.

    Honestly, I think they go to heaven. In my OPINION, I think the ones who died young will go to heaven because it was God's will. But those who did not die young are meant to live and make a choice to accept Jesus or not. I think the Lord can in the future of each souls and knows young kids who died young before accountability would have loved the Lord very much if he didn't died. but this is just my opinion.

    http://www.learnthebible.org/q_a_age...untability.htm

  3. #3
    chazanna11 Guest

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    Hi:
    What do you all think about all the aborted babies? Do they go in the Rapture too? And if they do, do you think they will be resurrected in adult form or as infants? I know, stupid question. But I am curious.

  4. #4
    Cd4u Guest

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    who knows, Only God knows the soul of each child.

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    I firmly believe that children who die before they're too young to understand the concept of sin and the need for salvation go to Heaven,
    Thus you're FORCED to admit that we CAN lose our salvation.

    By the way, if all babies (or children) are saved, wouldn't it be wise to kill every fetus so that NO ONE loses his salvation? Or do you think it's better that a person go to hell? Remember, if all children go to heaven, wouldn't we be doing some of those children a favor by ending their lives before they lost their eternal life?

    NOTE: I'm not suggeting I believe this; in fact I disagree with the initial comment that all children go to heaven.

    1 Cor 7:14 says that if a child has at least ONE believing parent, the child is holy. However, if both parents are non-believers, the child is "unclean."

    Perhaps there is more to being a parent than we typically assume.
    Last edited by Bernardd; June 8th, 2007 at 11:24 PM.

  6. #6
    CelticMist Guest

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    What an excellent question you propose here!!!


    What type of parents are they outside of not believing? Is the first question I would ask. Reasoning behind this question is because if they live a life of evil... I don't think their children will go in the rapture. Here's why: There was a group of evil doers in the Old Testament... God ordered them all killed... I can't recall where this is at... but will get the passage. The old men down to the children were all wiped out.

    Joshua 10
    Last edited by CelticMist; June 9th, 2007 at 12:00 AM. Reason: updated

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    Quote Originally Posted by chazanna11 View Post
    Hi:
    What do you all think about all the aborted babies? Do they go in the Rapture too? And if they do, do you think they will be resurrected in adult form or as infants? I know, stupid question. But I am curious.

    Yes, they will. God will restore to them what their parents and abortion practitioners cruelly stole from them when He gives them new resurrection bodies. He'll do that when the trumpet blows.

    As for what form they'll be resurrected in--I just don't know! Wish I did.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BearMom6 View Post
    Hi

    New to the Bible here but I just read Joshua 10 and I don't see where it says what happened to the souls of the children? Of course it doesn't say that God took the souls to Heaven but it doesn't say he didn't.

    I don't understand everything about the rapture but if God took the children's souls to Heaven, wouldn't that have been the same during the rapture?

    What about a child born to evil, horrible, abusive, non-caring people but ends up in an orphanage as a baby and then dies? Why would the child (who is not old enough to have made ANY type of choice or old enough to ask to be saved) be punished for having rotten parents?

    Haven't good people, good Christians, grown from exactly that type of environment?

    Maybe I am just not understanding the question.

    Thanks!

    BearMom

    Yes, they have, and yes, you're right. God is not going to punish an innocent young child for the choices of his parents in this way, by condemning him to eternity in Hell or to 7 years of Tribulation judgments that will be expressions of God's wrath. (BTW, I took the liberty of boldfacing certain parts of your post.)
    Last edited by kgreen20; June 9th, 2007 at 10:39 PM.

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    What about a child born to evil, horrible, abusive, non-caring people but ends up in an orphanage as a baby and then dies? Why would the child (who is not old enough to have made ANY type of choice or old enough to ask to be saved) be punished for having rotten parents?
    You can say what you want about the "innocence" of children, but the simple fact is we simply do not know. Would it be unfair for a baby to be condemned to hell? Perhaps from out perspective, it would be. But it should also be remembered that we are all born with sin. We all deserve ****ation.

    The Bible says that children born to non-belivers are "unclean" but if that child has at least one believing parent, the child is holy. (1 Cor 7:14) I don't know if that has ramifications for the child in terms of heaven or hell, but it does give me reason to consider the dire consequences of non-believing parents. But then again, Christ did die for all of us. Furthermore, how do you know what a child or baby thinks? How can any of us say for certain if a baby (or embryo) has a relationship with CHrist?

    If we believe that all children go to heaven (or that they're saved), than we must admit that we can in fact lose our salvation.

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    Babies are innocent, in that they know nothing of evil and don't know the first thing about sin or their need for Jesus. Yes, all are born with sin natures, but babies don't begin to sin until they're old enough to begin to make choices, good or bad. Even then, they're not yet old enough to understand what sin is and what damage it does, or what their eternal fates will be. For that reason, there is not one single baby or toddler who would be capable of understanding the plan of salvation if you attempted to explain it to him, since he lacks the mental development to comprehend such things.

    If God rejected them because they lack the knowledge to accept Jesus into their hearts, every baby and young child who died would go to Hell. That means that, since there's no such thing as limbo for babies (to borrow from Dante's Inferno), they would suffer the anguish of burning in the Lake of Fire for all eternity, just because they're too lacking in knowledge to be able to ask Jesus to save them from their sins.

    God is a far more merciful God than that! True, those who are old enough to know and who refuse to act on what they know may well expect to meet their eternal fate, but God does not judge an innocent baby (yes, I use the word deliberately, given what I just typed above) by the same standard He uses for people who are old enough to know. Babies and young children are covered until they reach the age of accountability, even if their parents are not covered by the blood of Jesus. For that reason, if they die, they go to Heaven, and will be resurrected when the trumpet blows. If a young child is still alive when that same trumpet blows, calling up all dead Christians and all children who died while young from Pentecost onward, he will be caught up, too, for the same reason. It is not their mothers and/or fathers being saved that covers them in the sight of God, because no child or adult can ride to Heaven on the coattails of his parents. It is their mental state as described above, whether they're capable of understanding or not.

    And, no, the concept of the age of accountability does not mean we can lose our salvation! Not in the least.



    Kathy G.
    Last edited by kgreen20; June 9th, 2007 at 10:37 PM.

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    Babies are innocent, in that they know nothing of evil and don't know the first thing about sin or their need for Jesus. Yes, all are born with sin natures, but babies don't begin to sin until they're old enough to begin to make choices, good or bad. Even then, they're not yet old enough to understand what sin is and what damage it does, or what their eternal fates will be. For that reason, there is not one single baby or toddler who would be capable of understanding the plan of salvation if you attempted to explain it to him, since he lacks the mental development to comprehend such things.

    If God rejected them because they lack the knowledge to accept Jesus into their hearts, every baby and young child who died would go to Hell. That means that, since there's no such thing as limbo for babies (to borrow from Dante's Inferno), they would suffer the anguish of burning in the Lake of Fire for all eternity, just because they're too lacking in knowledge to be able to ask Jesus to save them from their sins.

    God is a far more merciful God than that! True, those who are old enough to know and who refuse to act on what they know may well expect to meet their eternal fate, but God does not judge an innocent baby (yes, I use the word deliberately, given what I just typed above) by the same standard He uses for people who are old enough to know. Babies and young children are covered until they reach the age of accountability, even if their parents are not covered by the blood of Jesus. For that reason, if they die, they go to Heaven, and will be resurrected when the trumpet blows. If a young child is still alive when that same trumpet blows, calling up all dead Christians and all children who died while young from Pentecost onward, he will be caught up, too, for the same reason. It is not their mothers and/or fathers being saved that covers them in the sight of God, because no child or adult can ride to Heaven on the coattails of his parents. It is their mental state as described above, whether they're capable of understanding or not.

    And, no, the concept of the age of accountability does not mean we can lose our salvation! Not in the least.
    Maybe. Of course, there is little proof bibilcally to support this opinion.

    If all children are saved due to their "innocent" or lack of konwledge etc. then there must come a point where a child no longer has this excuse or free pass. Wouldn't that be the point where the child "lost" his salvation?

    You wrote this...

    And, no, the concept of the age of accountability does not mean we can lose our salvation! Not in the least.
    ...and then just left me hanging.

  12. #12
    CelticMist Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by BearMom6 View Post
    Hi

    New to the Bible here but I just read Joshua 10 and I don't see where it says what happened to the souls of the children? Of course it doesn't say that God took the souls to Heaven but it doesn't say he didn't.

    I don't understand everything about the rapture but if God took the children's souls to Heaven, wouldn't that have been the same during the rapture?

    What about a child born to evil, horrible, abusive, non-caring people but ends up in an orphanage as a baby and then dies? Why would the child (who is not old enough to have made ANY type of choice or old enough to ask to be saved) be punished for having rotten parents?

    Haven't good people, good Christians, grown from exactly that type of environment?

    Maybe I am just not understanding the question.

    Thanks!

    BearMom
    Hi

    Many have questioned why the children were killed along with the parents. The answer they gave was very interesting. The entire community was killed off because the adults were nothing but evil and children tend to imitate their parents. So, the parents were instilling in their children hatred and other evil doings. Sort of like how the Islamic teach their children in the schools about how to kill none Islamic people.

    Those born in the family of evil.. that end up at orphanages or are adopted out... I don't think they will be left behind. Like the unborn child that has been aborted. I think each and every one of those child are in heaven (their souls).

    Its a well known fact that from the age of infancy to six years old, whatever the child is learning will be revealed in their adulthood. For example: if a boy sees his dad beating his mother all the time and nothing done to correct this violent act, the child grows up believing he too can beat the girlfriend/wife.

    Don't know if this answered your question or made it clearer. If it didn't, forgive me!!!

  13. #13
    CountryBumpkin Guest

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    It is interesting to note that in speaking of during the tribulation in Mark 13:12 Jesus says: "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death.

    We do not know the ages of these children and yet we realise that they are obviously children. This and other scriptures cause me to believe that not all children go in the rapture.

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    Don't forget that babies will be born in the Tribulation, too. All babies and small children will go in the Rapture, but more will be conceived and born afterward.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgreen20 View Post
    Don't forget that babies will be born in the Tribulation, too. All babies and small children will go in the Rapture, but more will be conceived and born afterward.
    Why? What evidence is behind this statement? Why is it that you believe that a child conceived by non-Christian parents one second before the Rapture will be taken--but one conceived one second after the Rapture must, if he lives, spend his first six years plus of life going through hell on Earth?

    God, obviously, is not bound by what we decide on this chat forum. But if we want our conclusions to have some resemblance to ultimate reality, then I think that we need to be consistent in what we decide, for I believe that God is consistent and just in his dealings with mankind.

    While I do not claim that, "This is the way IT IS", I do believe that this is the way things could be.

    At conception, a child is neither "saved" nor "unsaved"--just uncondemned.

    As the child grows and begins to make moral choices, he comes under the condemnation of the enemy. To use a courtroom analogy, charges are filed by the prosecutor, who is Satan. The Adversary is trying to "pull a Clinton"--to get off, scot free, regardless of how many Bob Livingstones he has to destroy in order to do so. If God compromises his justice even once, then Satan's way of escape is in sight. Therefore, out of one side of his mouth the devil tempts humanity to do evil--and with the other side he self-righteously prosecutes us for the evil which he tempted us to do.

    We are not, I am convinced, without representation of our own. I believe that the true role of "guardian angels" is not so much to save us from auto accidents (although I do believe that they truly relish any opportunity they get to "put their hands in" to our world), but to act as our public defenders before God when Satan accuses us.

    If a child dies before Satan succeeds in his quest to have us found guilty, the presumption of, "innocent until proven guilty" applies. But note that a child who dies in this state is NOT an overcomer. There are no crowns, there is no joint inheiritance with Jesus, there is no welcome of, "Well done" from the Father. There is, I believe, a place to lodge in the Father's house, loving care and guidance from his servants, and eventually productive work to do--but the chance for real rewards has been lost. (Those who are responsible for this loss by intentionally causing the death of children, born or unborn, have MUCH to answer for.)

    From my own life experience (crawling into a plastic bag at age two) and observation of others (my niece sticking a paper clip into a light socket at about the same age), I have a working theory that no child survives beyond the age of accountability without divine intervention at some point. Whenever a child grows to the age of moral responsibility, I believe that God and/or his guardian angel is/are convinced that that child has the potential to become an overcomer through Christ. (Many who die earlier do too, I hasten to add--I believe that Satan deliberately attacks many whom he sees as having the potential to cause him trouble.)

    While I admit that I could be wrong on this, I believe that Christ's description of his coming as "a thief in the night" precludes a mass disappearance of all children everywhere. When the thief comes by stealth, you may not notice it at all until you begin to look for a certain item and find it missing. I tend to believe that in areas where Christianity has been suppressed, the Rapture will hardly be noticed. I think that those who do notice it, particularly the Muslims, will see it as Allah's wrath being taken upon those heretics who believe that God could have a Son. They would hardly think this if their own children and babies were taken as well!

    No, if you believe that all children are raptured then I think that you have to further believe that there will be no more children conceived for the next seven years. Which opens up an interesting can of worms in its own right, but one that I will leave for someone else to address.

    However, I do believe that the children of believers will be taken along with their parents; while they will not receive the rewards of an overcomer, they still stand to receive an inheiritance eventually--in the usual way, through their own believing parents. Furthermore, I believe that God will give the guardian angels of those who perhaps were not children of believers, but who will be left uncared for or in similar dire straits by the disappearance of the church, a fairly wide latitude to take them to Heaven as those who are "innocent until proven guilty" are now. Or, if they choose, God and his angels may leave the children in this world with the hope that they will come to be overcomers through the blood and the word of Jesus Christ. I would not be surprised to find that there are many who choose that option--angels, I believe, are eternal optimists.
    --------Eric H. Bowen

    16 inch Armor Piercing: When you care enough to send the very, very, best!

  16. #16
    CountryBumpkin Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgreen20 View Post
    Don't forget that babies will be born in the Tribulation, too. All babies and small children will go in the Rapture, but more will be conceived and born afterward.
    "Now brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; and children will rise up against parents and cause them to be put to death."

    This verse cannot mean that babies and toddlers born in the tribulation will turn in their father - they would be too young. Another thing is that if babies are born during the tribulation why should they have to suffer and not the other children born before.

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    LOL! Why should ANYBODY suffer in the Tribulation and not those before? Why should Christians and small children who have already died get to escape the horrors of the Tribulation, just because they died before it started? For that matter, why should the living Church also get to escape?

    Forgive me, but I don't really see your logic in your answer. Rather the emotionalism of "Why should some get to escape the suffering that others are forced to endure?"--the same logic that some are, even now, using regarding Christians in the United States who aren't being maimed, tortured, killed, imprisoned, enslaved, murdered, etc., etc., just because we have believed on the name of Jesus (as, sad to say, others are enduring in Moslem and Communist countries). The simple, logical answer is that God is not going to close the wombs of all women who are left behind at the Rapture--they will still be capable of having children, and many will. Don't forget Jesus' prediction of "woe to pregnant women and nursing mothers" when the time comes to escape Jerusalem during the abomination of desolation--that, alone, tells me that there will definitely be children born during that time period.

    As for children betraying their parents, well, can anyone look up the original Greek for that word used in that verse, to find out whether that verse was referring to literal children below the age of accountability when the Rapture occurs? I'm thinking that it could have been youth--kids who are in their teens, perhaps--that verse was speaking of, as I can't see a young child, below the age of accountability when the Rapture takes place, having the heartlessness to turn his own parents over to the authorities. A teenager, on the other hand, just might, if he's been corrupted by the Antichrist government.

    At least, that's what I'm figuring, anyway.



    Kathy G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kgreen20 View Post
    For children too young to understand as well as for older believers, regardless of whether their parents know or knew Jesus or not.

    Now--for those of you who believe that innocent young children whose parents are unsaved can expect to bear the blast and fury of God's wrath in the Tribulation instead of being counted innocent in God's eyes, go ahead!



    Yours truly,
    Kathy G.
    Kathy,
    I agree with everything you said. I think when the rapture happens, all of the babies in the womb of those who are lost will also go up to heaven. I believe that the belly's of the women who are with child will literally be deflated at the sound of the trumpet.
    We presume that we would be ready for battle if confronted with a great crisis, but it is not the crisis that builds something within us—it simply reveals what we are made of already. -Oswald Chambers

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    If all children below the age of accountability are included in the Rapture, what about intellectually disabled adults, who are totally incapable of understanding the gospel?
    Hey, Dad......ARE WE THERE YET?

  20. #20
    LaMontre Guest

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    Pro 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

    I would not necessarily press salvation into that verse, but I would consider, that if there was only a short time before the end (say, 7 years perhaps), that there might be literally millions of children who would not take the mark of the beast within that timeframe (because of their age) and yet would not necessarily be believers either. In that instance, their parents might be sent to hell, but they themselves would be spared to live on into the MK. It does seem that, below a certain maturity level would simply automatically be spared. However, going in the rapture, is another matter. I mean, all of the scenarios to which Jesus compares the final judgement (Sodom and Gomorah & Noah's flood) all have the entire population being left to be destroyed, including the children. But it seems to me that the MOB is the great divider of the sheep and the goats at the end of the tribulation.

    Mat 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

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