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Thread: Self Defense, Murder, and War

  1. #1
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    Default Self Defense, Murder, and War

    My husband made a comment yesterday. He says that if God said "Thou shalt not kill" then that means it's wrong to kill in self defense. The way he said it he was being sarcastic. We both beleive in protecting ourselves. How do I respond in a Bible based way to him? He is not a beleiver.
    Romans 10:13 "For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" NKJV
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    It is completely Biblical to kill, to protect oneself or others. I'd refer to the Old Testament on that. Exodus 22:2

    2 “If a thief is caught breaking in at night and is struck a fatal blow, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed
    The Biblical precedent for the Castle Doctrine.

    However, do I think people need to have all the armament? I know a man who never leaves the house, even to mow the yard, without a gun.

    I've lived in some horrible neighborhoods; crackheads, dirty needles all around the bus stop, prostitutes, gangs, etc. Over 10 years. I never had a speck of trouble with anyone until I moved to the NICE subdivision. And I let him come up behind me... which I never would have done in the ghetto! [He attempted to rob me, I beat him and he ran off]

    I have some gardening tools that could be used for self defense, but the only "protection" item I own is the pepper spray.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

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    Actually, the command is not to commit murder. The OT is replete with stories of God commanding His people to kill. Killing is acceptable under some circumstances and one of those is in self defense.


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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadeeyes View Post
    Actually, the command is not to commit murder. The OT is replete with stories of God commanding His people to kill. Killing is acceptable under some circumstances and one of those is in self defense.
    Exactly. "Kill" is a mistranslation. The correct translation is "commit murder".

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    I am one of those people that Obama would accuse of clinging to my guns and religion. I have a 38 Special just in case. I pray that I never have to use it, but would do so if someone broke in my house.

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    http://www.gotquestions.org/you-shall-not-murder.html

    Question: "Why is "You shall not murder" in the Ten Commandments?"

    Answer:
    Simply stated, the sixth of the Ten Commandments forbids the unjustified taking of a human life. However, the commandment itself has a couple of interesting elements that bear mentioning. First and foremost, different Bible translations give the appearance of different meanings and there is potential for misunderstanding the actual meaning of the verse. Second, man was never created for the act of murdering another and as such there needs to be an explanation for such a violent and final act towards another human being. Third, because of the translational challenge, we need to understand the difference between “murder” and “killing.” And last but not least, how does God view murder? To God, murder is not just physical in nature but also the condition of one’s heart towards another.

    There are two different Hebrew words (ratsakh, mut) and two Greek words (phoneuo, apokteino) for “murder / killing”. One means “to put to death,” and the other means “to murder.” The latter one is the one prohibited by the Ten Commandments, not the former. In fact, ratsakh has a broader definition than the English word “murder.” Ratsakh also covers deaths due to carelessness or neglect but is never used when describing the killing during wartime. That is why most modern translations render the sixth commandment “You shall not murder” rather than “You shall not kill.” However, a very large issue can arise depending on which translation one studies. The ever popular King James Version renders the verse as “Thou shalt not kill,” therefore opening the door to misinterpreting the verse altogether. If the intended meaning of “Thou shalt not kill” was just that—no killing—it would render all of the God-endorsed bloodletting done by nation of Israel as a violation of God’s own commandment (Deuteronomy 20). But God does not break His own commandments, so clearly the verse does not call for a complete moratorium on the taking of another human life.

    Why does man murder? We know that we were created in God’s image (Genesis 1:27) and as such we were made to live in harmony with God and with our fellow man. This harmony became impossible once sin entered into the picture (Genesis 3). With sin came the propensity of acting violently against one another. Anger, jealousy, pride and hatred can fuel man’s evil bent towards life-ending aggression. The first recorded act of murder was when Cain killed his brother Abel (Genesis 4:8). From that moment on, taking the life of another has been commonplace and in some circles of society, acceptable. However, to God every life is important, and since God knew that man was sinful and evil and had become “lawless,” He enacted guidelines that would seek to modify man’s behavior (1 John 3:4).

    So, is there a difference between murder and killing? First, it is important to note that not all killing is wrong. For instance, the apostle Paul talks about the right of the state to take the lives of evildoers (Romans 13:1-7). This relates to what is commonly referred to as capital punishment. If one breaks a law and commits murder, in most countries there are consequences for that action. In some cases this requires the life of the perpetrator and a suitable means of putting one to death is chosen and administered (Matthew 5:21; Exodus 21:14). Another instance of acceptable “killing” is that which is done during times of war and at the command of superiors. There were quite a few instances in Scripture where God endorsed and allowed the taking of other lives (1 Samuel 11; Judges 6–7). And finally, although far from acceptable, manslaughter is yet another form of killing someone. This unintentional act apparently happened so often in biblical times that cities of refuge were designated for the manslayer to seek refuge in (Exodus 21:13; Joshua 20). Again, it was never God’s intent to have to use such a drastic measure as taking one’s life to rectify a situation. So, God does make exceptions for the taking of another’s life as long as it lines up with His will. However, premeditated murder of an individual is never God’s will.

    What is murder in God’s eyes? From the human perspective, murder is the physical act of taking another’s life. However, we also must consider that God defines murder as any thought or feeling of deep seated hatred or malice against another person. In other words it is more than just a physical act that constitutes murder to God who tells us that “Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him” (1 John 3:15 ESV). When we harbor hatred in our hearts for another, we have committed the sin of murder in God’s eyes. The disdain towards another person never has to be demonstrated outwardly because God looks upon the heart for the truth (1 Samuel 16:7; Matthew 15:19). As Christians and as human beings we know that unjustified killing is wrong. God’s Word is very clear on this point: “You shall not murder.” And what God says we must obey or we face the consequences on judgment day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jadeeyes View Post
    Actually, the command is not to commit murder. The OT is replete with stories of God commanding His people to kill. Killing is acceptable under some circumstances and one of those is in self defense.
    Yes, not to murder. Just one word not properly translated from the original text/culture can cause a lot of misunderstanding.
    Tall Timbers

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    Sgt. Alvin York, our greatest WWI hero, was a conscientious objector until he noted the verse, "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto me the things that are mine." Then he returned to his unit, took up arms, used his backwoods windage skills, and captured an entire company of German soldiers.

  10. #10
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    Default ....

    Yes the commandment is (Thou Shalt Do no Murder)

    Did you know you can Love your enemies and shoot them to?

  11. #11
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    Did you know you can Love your enemies and shoot them to?
    It's hard to. The one peron I have come REALLY close to shooting is very hard to love given what he has done to my husband's family. I need to pray for him more.
    Romans 10:13 "For whoever calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved" NKJV
    RIP Super Zazoo the Wonder Horse

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    And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end. And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.
    (Luk 22:35-38 KJV)
    So it is OK to buy weapons of defense ... just don't get carried away and buy too many.

  13. #13
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    Really, if 2 swords aren't going to do it, you're probably gonna meet Him anyway!

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

    Matthew 22:9 NIV
    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


    I'm praying for you daily!
    I get my Bibles here

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadeeyes View Post
    Actually, the command is not to commit murder. The OT is replete with stories of God commanding His people to kill. Killing is acceptable under some circumstances and one of those is in self defense.
    Jadeeyes is correct, the translation of kill in the commandment is murder.

  15. #15
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    http://www.gotquestions.org/war-Bible.html

    "What does the Bible say about war?"

    Answer: Many people make the mistake of reading what the Bible says in Exodus 20:13, “You shall not kill,” and then seeking to apply this command to war. However, the Hebrew word literally means “the intentional, premeditated killing of another person with malice; murder.” God often ordered the Israelites to go to war with other nations (1 Samuel 15:3; Joshua 4:13). God ordered the death penalty for numerous crimes (Exodus 21:12, 15; 22:19; Leviticus 20:11). So, God is not against killing in all circumstances, but only murder. War is never a good thing, but sometimes it is a necessary thing. In a world filled with sinful people (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Sometimes the only way to keep sinful people from doing great harm to the innocent is by going to war.

    In the Old Testament, God ordered the Israelites to “take vengeance on the Midianites for the Israelites” (Numbers 31:2). Deuteronomy 20:16-17 declares, “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them…as the LORD your God has commanded you.” Also, 1 Samuel 15:18 says, “Go and completely destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out.” Obviously God is not against all war. Jesus is always in perfect agreement with the Father (John 10:30), so we cannot argue that war was only God’s will in the Old Testament. God does not change (Malachi 3:6; James 1:17).

    Jesus’ second coming will be exceedingly violent. Revelation 19:11-21 describes the ultimate war with Christ, the conquering commander who judges and makes war “with justice” (v. 11). It’s going to be bloody (v. 13) and gory. The birds will eat the flesh of all those who oppose Him (v. 17-18). He has no compassion upon His enemies, whom He will conquer completely and consign to a “fiery lake of burning sulfur” (v. 20).

    It is an error to say that God never supports a war. Jesus is not a pacifist. In a world filled with evil people, sometimes war is necessary to prevent even greater evil. If Hitler had not been defeated by World War II, how many more millions would have been killed? If the American Civil War had not been fought, how much longer would African-Americans have had to suffer as slaves?

    War is a terrible thing. Some wars are more “just” than others, but war is always the result of sin (Romans 3:10-18). At the same time, Ecclesiastes 3:8 declares, “There is…a time to love and a time to hate, a time for war and a time for peace.” In a world filled with sin, hatred, and evil (Romans 3:10-18), war is inevitable. Christians should not desire war, but neither are Christians to oppose the government God has placed in authority over them (Romans 13:1-4; 1 Peter 2:17). The most important thing we can be doing in a time of war is to be praying for godly wisdom for our leaders, praying for the safety of our military, praying for quick resolution to conflicts, and praying for a minimum of casualties among civilians on both sides (Philippians 4:6-7).



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