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Thread: Wicca can very easily be proven false.

  1. #1
    ThatDude Guest

    Default Wicca can very easily be proven false.

    Hello,

    I was wondering if wiccans could take advantage of earth day and use it as a way to get people to become wiccan.
    And of course, if they could, then why wouldn't they?

    I bring up wicca in particular because of their ties to various forms of worship that involve the earth.

    In light of that thought, I would like to discuss how easy it is to dismiss the validity of the wiccan cult.
    Just in case you're a Christian who might be faced with the challenge of having a conversation with a friend or family member who believes the lies of the wiccan cult.
    It's a whole lot easier to dismiss wicca then you might think.
    Here are some facts about wicca that will show you just how silly the cult is.

    For starters, the cult was founded by this guy.

    Gerald Gardner.
    That is the best picture I could find of him and probably the most common one known.
    He lived from June 13, 1884 to Feb 12, 1964

    In 1939 he decided to join a cult and during his initiation ceremony, he heard the word "Wica" Which is an old English word for "witchcraft". After hearing that word, Gerald immediately came to the assumption that the cult he was joining was based on an early form of witchcraft that dated back a few hundred years before 1939.

    His assumptions were later proven wrong by fellow wiccan (Philip Hesselton) who did research on the cult of wicca in an effort to validate the origins of the cult itself.
    Philip came to the conclusion that wicca was started in the early 20th century.
    Based on what he calls "folk magik". Which is the description of practices and traditions held by people who are members of the wiccan cult.
    Hesselton came to this conclucion after realizing, no wiccan traditions could be dated back to the times Gerald Gardner claimed they could.

    After the second world war Gerald Gardner started a coven of his own which met at a nudest camp in London.
    Although having started the coven, Gerald hadn't formed the cult wicca at this time.
    Instead, he joined several other cults, the ancient druid order, the ancient british church (who ordained him as a priest) and the order of woodcraft chivalry.
    All in the pursuit of what Gerald considered intellectual understanding.

    During this time Gerald renovated, or partially renovated an abandoned library that was in need of some serious repairs. Essentially turning a condemned building into his home and calling it a "Museum of Magic and Witchcraft".
    The charter for which Gerald Gardner wrote the wiccan cult is pieced together from books Gardner found in the abandoned library.
    The charter (a rule book with practices and suggestions on how to be a wiccan) which allowed Gerald Gardner to practice wicca was signed by a single individual named Aleister Crowley.
    A little while after the signing of the charter a man named Gerald Yorke (a friend of Crowley's) reported that Gerald Gardner paid Crowley £300 to sign the charter that gave Gardner the right to practice wicca.

    In the end Gardner died poor and his books were used after his death by individuals who seen a profit in selling them commercially. But the charter Gerald Gardner wrote, never sold more then a few thousand copies world wide.

    It wasn't until the mid 60's when the poet Robert Graves, wrote a book called, "on the nature of poetic myth-making" that wicca got the attention of some unexpected individuals who were known for examining the unusual.
    Essentially the original books that came from Gerald Gardners charter were sold in a collection of artifacts to "Ripleys Believe it or Not" By Gerald Gardner's, High Priestess', Monique Wilson after Gerald bequeathed it to her in his will.

    Gerald's corpse and his artifacts were moved to America by Ripley's Believe it or Not and put on display, where they gained even more popularity as a freak show, until the collection was sold off during the 1980's.

    It was discovered by the High Priestess Eleanor Bone, at the time of the auction that Gerald's remains were buried in a site that was scheduled for redevelopment.
    Eleanor raised the money to have Geralds corpse moved to Tunis. Near Carthage and the Mediterranean Sea. A new Plague was put over the grave that reads, ""Father of Modern Wicca. Beloved of the Great Goddess"

    The selling of the collection and the re-burial of Geralds corpse coincidentally, happened to be shortly before wicca first became known by the media, when 3 (wiccan) teens were accused of murdering someone for a ritual sacrifice.


    Wicca came into the world through a man who used various books he found in a condemned library and only became popular after the cult itself was put on display by Ripley's Believe it or Not and made public by the media over what was believed to be a ritual sacrifice.

  2. #2
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    Wica, i was taught, was to bend or twist.


    i was one for about 12 years

    what a muddled cluttery foolish cult it is

  3. #3
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post



    Wica, i was taught, was to bend or twist.


    i was one for about 12 years

    what a muddled cluttery foolish cult it is
    I was never one, but I didn't become a Christian until I was in my early 30's.
    Not sure what I would have called myself before I became a Christian.

    BTW I want that bumper sticker!

    I have a friend who is wiccan now. He keeps telling me wicca is for him, (I haven't told him any of the stuff I left here) I think he would get really mad at me if I did.
    He's always depressed. He went into a clinic for a few weeks last year over his depression. He lost his job over a medical condition and applied for disability (which is taking forever) and he cant keep a place to live. Right now he's living with his girlfriends family and he hates it because he doesn't get along with them, but he has no choice... He has a long list of stuff he tells me, quite often.
    And I listen to him and hope he turns to God one of these days.

    Wish I knew what to say. Any suggestions?

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    Very interesting-good info!

    Great to hear the history and how easily it can be disproved. It makes me sad though for all the people it has mislead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatDude View Post
    I was never one, but I didn't become a Christian until I was in my early 30's.
    Not sure what I would have called myself before I became a Christian.

    BTW I want that bumper sticker!

    I have a friend who is wiccan now. He keeps telling me wicca is for him, (I haven't told him any of the stuff I left here) I think he would get really mad at me if I did.
    He's always depressed. He went into a clinic for a few weeks last year over his depression. He lost his job over a medical condition and applied for disability (which is taking forever) and he cant keep a place to live. Right now he's living with his girlfriends family and he hates it because he doesn't get along with them, but he has no choice... He has a long list of stuff he tells me, quite often.
    And I listen to him and hope he turns to God one of these days.

    Wish I knew what to say. Any suggestions?
    Does your friend know you are a Christian? I would just bring up everyday life things and how God relates. Just as they happen or as God brings it to mind.
    Your friend is miserable and his life seems difficult. Pray for him. Ask God to prepare his heart for Jesus.
    It could also be that there will come a time where you just have to talk openly with him. Maybe you can talk w him about the rapture, what is to come. Talk about what you believe instead of having him defend his "religion."

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post



    Wica, i was taught, was to bend or twist.


    i was one for about 12 years

    what a muddled cluttery foolish cult it is

    What a testimony you have!!
    So glad you have Jesus

  7. #7
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by momoffaith View Post
    Does your friend know you are a Christian? I would just bring up everyday life things and how God relates. Just as they happen or as God brings it to mind.
    Your friend is miserable and his life seems difficult. Pray for him. Ask God to prepare his heart for Jesus.
    It could also be that there will come a time where you just have to talk openly with him. Maybe you can talk w him about the rapture, what is to come. Talk about what you believe instead of having him defend his "religion."
    Yes, I tell him about God all the time. I told him once that when you become a Christian you don't have to guess, because God lets you know.
    He knew me before I was a Christian.

    He is also my friend on FaceBook. He left a comment of Facebook, that he was miserable and I replied that he needed God. All kinds of people from his side said some pretty nasty stuff after that.
    I don't think I've put him in a position where he feels he has to defend wicca.
    I apologize for making it sound that way. We discuss Christianity over wicca sometimes and when we discuss it, he tells me he thinks wicca is for him.

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    I had a wiccan reading my blog and commenting. She sent me a friend request on Facebook, and I accepted, and I was basically myself. I let her know I'd be praying for her every day, and she thanked me.

    Gradually I noticed she was saying complimentary things about my faith and said she would pray for me when I was having a bad day. Then she told me she got saved. God was ready to bring her back, and He did.

    I was REALLY happy. Make your position clear, and live a life that shows God's love, and let Him do the work.

    In the case of your friend, just listening can mean a lot. Nobody WANTS to hear about someone else's problems, but letting him know you are praying for him, etc... will mean a lot. You might want to print up some encouraging Bible verses, or give him a Bible with good passages marked up for him to read, and just let God do His thing.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

    Matthew 22:9 NIV
    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


    I'm praying for you daily!
    I get my Bibles here

  9. #9
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    You might want to print up some encouraging Bible verses, or give him a Bible with good passages marked up for him to read, and just let God do His thing.
    That is a really good idea. Thank you.

    As simple as it may sound, sometimes I just dont let God do his thing. I guess I get lost in the moment. But I thank God that he is working with me about that.

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    I just replied and I lost the message

    Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were making him defend himself. Just thinking about the way other's interpret things sometimes.

    Your friend keeps reaching out to you. He sees something different in you! Pray and watch what God will do!

  11. #11
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post



    Wica, i was taught, was to bend or twist.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witch_%28etymology%29

    Sorry for the long wait to reply to this.

    The word witch derives from the Old English nouns wicca /ˈwɪttʃɑ/ (masc.) "sorcerer, wizard" and wicce /ˈwɪttʃe/ (fem.) "sorceress, witch".


    Germanic practices of cleromancy such as those reported by Tacitus, but also consider *weik- "to curve, bend" (which became wicken "hop, dance") and *weg'h- "to move" (in a sense of "to make mysterious gestures"). Barbara G. Walker gives prominence to this origin, which she believes refers to the witch's ability to bend and shape the threads of reality

    While the origins of the word "wicca" are known, the origins of the word "wicken" are not. It is speculated by a single author (Barbara G. Walker) as to what wicken means from a semi ancient form of German.
    While on the other hand, the word "wiccan" is new and wasn't coined until it was used to describe a follower of wicca in the 20th century and is a revival of the old English word wicca..

    Barbara G. Walker
    Barbara G. Walker (born July 2, 1930, in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania) is a U.S. author and feminist. She is an influential knitting expert and the author of several classic encyclopedic knitting references. Other topics she has written about are religion, cultural anthropology, spirituality, and mythology from the viewpoint of Pre-Indo-European neolithic matriarchies.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_G._Walker

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    interesting. i like finding out where words come from

  13. #13
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post
    interesting. i like finding out where words come from
    I do too.
    Have you ever seen a 14th century English bible by Wycliffe?
    It's a good example of how much the English language has changed.
    Matter of fact, the King James 1611 was re-translated in the 1800's because the English language had changed so much from the 1600's to the 1800's, that people had trouble understanding it.

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    i may have had it in eSword, but i've toasted 3 laptops since then and couldn't remember which versions i had downloaded.

    if it was not the Wycliffe it may have been another version that was similarly ....antiquated i guess . i should go try and get it again.

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    well, i checked and unless i got it in a mod not made by the esword guy, it wasn't it. i wish i could remember, i had downloaded a bunch from all over the 'net.

    but i remember reading it and being amused at how much trouble i was having.

  16. #16
    ThatDude Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by icebear View Post
    well, i checked and unless i got it in a mod not made by the esword guy, it wasn't it. i wish i could remember, i had downloaded a bunch from all over the 'net.

    but i remember reading it and being amused at how much trouble i was having.
    Yeah, it's pretty wild. I cropped a pic of an original copy so it wouldn't take up the entire screen and copied what the entire page says below it.

    http://www.dkiel.com/Reformation/Pre...#WycliffeBible

    A 1430 copy of Wycliffe's Bible, with the Lord's Prayer from Matthew 6:9 in Middle English is:


    "Oure fadir that art in heuenes, halewid be thi name; thi kyndoom come to; be thi wille don
    in erthe as in heuene: gyue to us this dai oure breed ouer othir substaunce; and forgyue to us oure
    dettis, as we forgyuen to oure gettouris; and lede us not in to temptacioun, but delyuere us fro yuel."






    Psalms 23 from the original 1611 KJV


    From a more modern translation.
    1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

    2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.

    3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

    4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.

    5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.

    6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

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