Need to talk...

[Annie]

I have been struggling with some really big things with my daughter. We are a homeschool family and my daughter entered into a courtship relationship with a young man from town. He professed to be a Christian, loved the Lord, everything...after 4 years of courship/dating, she graduated from highschool and entered our University on a full scholarship in Honors. This young man also attended there and her sophmore year he asked her to marry and we asked them to hold off the marriage until her graduation. His grandmother was very ill with cancer and he begged us to allow them to marry sooner so that she could attend the wedding. Sooo, the summer of her junior year, last summer, they married. After the wedding and hon eymoon, it was apparent that everything was not OK with this young man and he spiraled into a deep depression. His behavior became very erratic, and violent, and right before Christmas, after they had been married for four months, he kicked her out of their apartment and asked for a divorce. We pleaded with them to get couseling, but he and his parents refused and the only answer for why he wanted out of the marriage is that "he is not happy". After that, any contact my daughter tried to make with him was rebuffed, he cut off her phone, he unfriended her on social sites, would not answer mail, would not talk to us. So, my daughter decided to file for divorce, thinking that maybe that would make him change his mind...he still would not talk to her or consent to couseling, so she decided to go through with the divorce because that is what he really wanted....
My problems with this are not the divorce or failed marriage...they are with our Church. When he kicked her out, she went to our pastor and asked for help, and he said that tomorrow was his day off, and he did not get back to her for six weeks. During that time, things deteriorated, since she and we did not know what to do about the situation
Well, now we have come under terrible condemnation for "allowing this to happen" Our senior pastor and associate pastor called my daughter in and berated her for over two hours. They told her that she was now an "illigitimate child of God" and when she dies "she will never see Gods face in heaven because He will not recognize her for what she has done". They told her that she could not tell us what they said because they would call us and tell us all the bad things she has done and that she is a liar. Of course, we have a very close relationship and she told us right away. I told them that this was akin to abuse, using their power like that coupled with threats. Well, apparently they have shared this with the elders in the church, because when we go into church we are completely shunned. There are very few people who will talk to us or visit with us. If I try to discuss this situation, the conversation ends and the other person walks away.
I dont need to tell you the spiritual damage that this has done to me family...No one will talk to me or answer my questions..The pastor won't talk to me. I told him that my faith has been shaken and he said "that if my faith has been shaken, I probably didn't have any to begin with".. I asked them if there is no forgiveness or redemption for what she has done, I have done worse, and if she cant be forgiven, I cant be forgiven, then the cross and Jeus's death is just a joke, they said that there are special rules for marriage. I dont know what they are talking about . Is that true? We want to heal from this, we live in a very small town, and have even considered moving. but we both have jobs, and my father is elderly and needs help. I just want to know the truth. To tell you the truth, I havn't been able to pray or really be in the word since..and we have been disinvited to our bible study and fellowship group...
We thought we did everything right...

[Acts5:41]

Well, a couple of things.

He could have manifested mental illness. It is VERY common for things like bipolar disorder and all to pop up in the early 20's. However, he has to WANT to get help, take whatever he is given, as directed, and live a pretty quiet life. Anyway...

Regarding the church, you said it was:

akin to abuse

You're wrong.

IT IS ABUSE.

I would leave the church. The fact that the pastor completely neglected a young woman in crisis, for SIX WEEKS, says it all.

The fact that he would berate her for ending a marriage her husband terminated... .

I really hope you are not giving them any money.

[Jlutz]

you are not attending a church that teaches the Bible.

There is no sin that will make you lose your salvation, refer to this if there is any doubt. http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/eter...e-whole-story/

God hates divorice but he still loves the person that got divoriced. I'm sure there are people that will post some of the other docternaly unsound things about your church from your post but just the fact that they are teaching you that you can lose your salvation, would make me leave there and never go back.

[Jacinth]

Run from that church as fast as you can. Shake the dust from your feet.
They are NOT doing the Lord's work. The Lord is all about restoration not condemnation, in regard to His flock.

I'm sorry about the situation with your son-in-law.

Acts may be right about BPD, did your daughter notice anything during all those years they dated? Any kind of abnormal darkness about him?

[Musician in His house]

As for your daughter's husband, even though you mentioned he "said" he was a Christian, I think this verse still applies:

1 Corinthians 7:14-15
King James Version (KJV)


14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.



My first thought regarding his sudden actions were the same as Heather's (Acts'): Possible bipolar or other mental illness. Been there, done that with my own hubby. I didn't notice anything unusual about him until he had his breakdown not long after our second child was born. Many times bipolar will manifest in response to a major life change, like a birth, a death, a marriage, a divorce, a job change, etc. I say let him go, if he is so intent on going.

As for the "church" you are/were attending, I am appalled at the behavior of the pastor and the deacons/elders. That is absolutely NO way to shepherd a flock!! I agree that you should seek another, more Biblical-based, more accepting church family. If you lived near us, you would absolutely be welcome in our Baptist church!! Church should be where hurting, flawed people go for Biblical help and support, not castigation and shunning. We all have our flaws, our faults, our issues, and being a member of a church does not shield us from that. Our pastor readily admits his own faults and failings, even from the pulpit in the course of his sermons. He knows that being a pastor does not make him "holier than thou" or immune from the same problems as his congregation. We reach out to those who are hurting and dealing with issues: that includes a ministry to a men's halfway house just down the hill and one in the next county. Our local tourist town once had a resort area minister who suffered from bipolar disorder and who eventually took his own life -- some of our men were involved in the search for him and our church ministered to his wife and young daughter. THAT is what part of the mission of the church really is -- to meet people's immediate needs and, through that, to lead them to Christ. There is NO WAY that any of you have lost or will lose your salvation over this. The Bible says that NOTHING can separate us from the love of Christ, and "nothing" means "NOTHING"!!

So my suggestion is to start looking for another church. Start attending other churches in your area, tell your story if you feel comfortable, and see what their reaction is. While I'm not suggesting you find an "I'm okay, you're okay, feel-good Gospel" church, you and your family need the love and support of a body of believers that believes the uncompromising Truth of the Bible.

[Lynn]

Run from that church as fast as you can. Shake the dust from your feet.
They are NOT doing the Lord's work. The Lord is all about restoration not condemnation, in regard to His flock.

Even though you live in a very small community, there are likely larger communities not far (at least I hope so). You may need to consider commuting to a different church. You don't say what denomination you affiliate with, but eternal security is one of the basic teachings in Scripture. If a person is genuinely born again, they cannot be plucked out of God's hand, ever.

If the young man wants a divorce, I would counsel your daughter not to resist him in this. If an unbeliever departs from the marriage, the other person is called to peace. Things like this do happen, unfortunately, and be glad that there aren't children involved. I'd let him have the divorce and consider it a lesson learned early rather than later.

[HJesusfreak]

your "church" sounds like a cult. Get thee and thy daughter away from those haters.

[Jlutz]

just realized this was the womens forum.

[katiesmom07]

Good for you for asking advice and good for you for knowing the Word and knowing bad advice. This is why I love Christ, He puts us on a firm foundation. I think the women responding here have given you wonderful advice. Stand straight, shake off that dust from that church and find a Christ Love centered, bible teaching church and off you go. You and your daughter just learned a valuable wisdom filled lesson only Christ can teach. Pray for that church and their leaders as it doesnt look good for them and most likely you will see it fail in the future. Just thanking God for how He takes such good care of us. Your poor daughter, falling in love and then being put out, betrayed and the coldness..it makes me shudder. This is a cold cold world these last days and even good people have such difficulties. Bolster up your daughter, encourage her and support each other in the family and all will be ok. Such is Christ's love for us and His promise.

[davidswife]

I agree that you are in the wrong church. I was in a church years ago that was alot like what you described. I was getting separated due to my now ex husbands abusive alcoholism and the elder I went to for counsel about it treated me with such coldness. I was certainly made to feel sullied and was thoroughly punished. Yes we did experience some shunning and in the end left that church. I wasn't the only one that left as there was a major split not long afterwards . I found a very good loving church home after that where my children were actively involved. There was a good book I read back then called"Churches that Abuse". I don't remember who wrote it but it was being passed around alot back then and got out of my hands. What you are describing is spiritual abuse. I would get out of that church as quickly as possible and never look back. It may be that your daughter could get an anulnment. If she needs to get a divorce, it's not the worst thing in the world. She might need to do that. God actually commanded some Levites to divorce some wives they married once that were pagans. I think that was in the book of Ezra. Nontheless, my prayers will be with your daughter and your whole family. I know just how you feel. Please find a place where people will love you and your daughter and where you can all see true Christianity, and have some fun and laugh, even cry if you need to, and heal.

[Acts5:41]

My mother was married 7 times, and had several live-in men after her last husband died.

She got saved 2 weeks before she died.

If God can forgive her, He could certainly "forgive" your daughter, although IMO she didn't do anything wrong.

I'll be praying for her to meet a good QUALITY man, and for all of you to find a good church home.

[Lucy]

your "church" sounds like a cult. Get thee and thy daughter away from those haters.

DITTO!!!!
RUN and while you are running as fast as you can away from those nuts, can you turn them in to a higher authority of the denomination????

[Kliska]

You've been given good advice here; run, don't walk, away from that place and those people. You and your daughter are Children of the King, and I wouldn't want to be around when He corrects those abusing their position, or lets life correct them. For a believer, God is about loving grace-filled guidance when we do something wrong (which I don't see you or your daughter doing anything wrong), not hate-filled self-righteous judgment from fellow fallen humans who don't know their Bible or Biblical teachings.

Once we come to put our faith in Jesus, NOTHING can separate us from Him. If someone runs out on their spouse, they are the ones that have done the abandoning, your daughter is the victim... and you and your family are the victim of this "church." Don't let what happened shake your faith in God, let Him strengthen your relationship with Him through this, and help you find solace in His actual word, instead of what you received at the hands of the "pastor."

[Robinbobbin]

The experience you had at that church should confirm for you that no good will come from going back. No good will come from going back because that church is not of Christ. He didn't shun the divorced or the ill or sinners... The "Pastor" is a false teacher. I would run far and fast from his church and his followers... because it certainly sounds to me like the attenders are following the "Pastor" - not Christ. Your "Pastor" is trying to control you and yours - not work with you towards any sort of resolution. That is truly heart breaking because who knows how many people he's steared away from Christ as a result of his holier-than-thou actions.

And, for what it's worth, your family absolutely should not have received that kind of treatment - your daughter did nothing wrong. Her dh and his family have some serious issues and it's probably better for her in the long run to be able to walk away cleanly with the full knowledge that SHE has a saving relationship with Christ and he has absolved her of wrong-doing if her non-believing spouse cast her out.

Hugs to you and to your daughter. And, please visit other churches in your area or near your daughter's university and find one that is Christ-centered. There are lots of Christians on college campuses - I have no doubt that your daughter will be able to meet other Christian young women who can help her find a rock solid Bible-centered church to attend.

As a side-note - once you are committed to leaving the church, I'd write a letter to the church elders detailing the abuse you received at the hands of the Pastor, his irresponsible manner of handling a family in crisis, and the false teachings he is upholding citing scripture. This isn't to cause dissention or to "get back" at the Pastor but specifically to start a document trail so when the elders truly open their eyes to what is going on under their watch, they have necessary documention to fire the Pastor for his actions.

Geographically, where are you guys located? maybe the folks on here have some recommendations.

[TimothyK]

When he kicked her out, she went to our pastor and asked for help, and he said that tomorrow was his day off, and he did not get back to her for six weeks. During that time, things deteriorated, since she and we did not know what to do about the situation

Well, now we have come under terrible condemnation for "allowing this to happen" Our senior pastor and associate pastor called my daughter in and berated her for over two hours. They told her that she was now an "illigitimate child of God" and when she dies "she will never see Gods face in heaven because He will not recognize her for what she has done".

They told her that she could not tell us what they said because they would call us and tell us all the bad things she has done and that she is a liar. Of course, we have a very close relationship and she told us right away. I told them that this was akin to abuse, using their power like that coupled with threats.

Well, apparently they have shared this with the elders in the church, because when we go into church we are completely shunned. There are very few people who will talk to us or visit with us. If I try to discuss this situation, the conversation ends and the other person walks away.

Run, don't walk.

Leave. Find a new church. There is so much failure and extra biblical nonsense going on here I'm just picking this first thing for brevity sake. But this whole quoted section is utter failure on the part of this 'church'.

That was a callous and cold response on the part of this pastor. If he so desperately needed that day off for some great reason, he could have given some general advice, taken the day off, and returned to you the very next morning to deal with the issue head on.

But 6 weeks? And then it's your fault bad things happened that are in no way in your control when your daughter came to them first???

Cool story man! Bye bye now...

Hand them over to the Lord and move on with your life. There are plenty of churches in the world, and at least some of them are genuine. If such can't be found in your area, that's not your fault. It would be better to attend no church if that is the case, then to attend a church like you describe. Make your own at home if your led too!

Read your Bible and take it at it's word, fellowship here with us on RR. Ask questions. We are together in Jesus Christ, His children are the Church. It's not a replacement for a genuine physical church that can help you with your physical needs, but it is far better then nothing. It is very many leagues above the garbage being spewed by today’s modern rendition of a 'church'.

As for your daughter, she was a victim. She didn't leave her husband. She was abandoned physically and spiritually. The man broke his vows of marriage to her and before God. She sounds like she was truly in love with this man and he betrayed her.

God will deal with him accordingly. Wouldn't want to be in his shoes. Pray for him, give him also to our Lord Jesus, but your daughter doesn't have to dwell on the issue. She's free in Jesus Christ, and certainly free to move on with her life. The burden of guilt or blame is not on her.

Tell her that. Don't let her beat herself up over it. Don't you worry about it yourself.

We thought we did everything right...

Don't let a house of men and devils tell you otherwise. You did a very fine job raising your daughter from the sound of it. You ran to this 'church', but it wasn't convenient for them. If our Lord and God was among this church you describe, you wouldn't get 'help' and treatment like you experienced.

[M.C.]

You have received some very good advice on here!I love this RR family,I am praying that you find a biblically sound church.

[Praying]

your "church" sounds like a cult. Get thee and thy daughter away from those haters.

ing for you and your family in Jesus' name, Amen.

PS I would run as fast as I could away from this husband of hers, away from that church, and never look back. And when I say "run", I mean, run, like your hair is on fire.

[Windsong]

Annie I'm so sorry you and your family went through that. I have no other advice to give you because everyone else already gave you excellent advice. Run far and fast from that place. It is deplorable how that pastor treated your daughter and your family. They will answer to God for their actions and words. I pray that you find a Bible believing church that will love you, guide you, support you and teach you Biblical truths.

[Jacinth]

Annie, where are you? We'd like to hear from you

Has this thread brought you any comfort?

[davidswife]

Annie, We are still praying for you, your daughter and your whole family.