Need to talk...

[Zazzy]

Annie, how are things going?
I feel for you and your daughter. If the members of that church were real Christians, the would have rallied around your daughter. If they still contact both of you, go to the police. I would think that is would qualify as harassment. From what I read, the best think for her was a divorce. If they keep coming to your property, ask them to leave without hearing what they have to say. When they either don't leave aor whont quit comming over, call the police and file a complaint about them tresspassing.
And remember this, they will one day have to explain this un-Godly behavior to the Lord.

[Carrie Grace]

Annie~

Our church is part of the EFCA, and our pastors nor any of the church leadership would act like that--or condone that behavior. Who knows what untold damage this has done to that congregation and the community! I urge you to make a complaint about this pastor to the EFCA before he harms anyone else.

My heart breaks for you and your family and am so relieved to hear that you have disassociated yourselves from that poisonous, legalistic so-called pastor, and are resting on the promises of our Lord and Savior.

Please consider contacting the EFCA about this church. They are nothing but bullies with titles. For certain, contact law enforcement if you or any of your family continue to be harassed.

[Annie]

Here I am again...I thought i would check in and let you all know what is going on. I truly do covet your prayers. This has been such an isolating experience, and I really don't have any one to talk to about this.
Some updates...we have been attending a church in a neighboring town, and the pastor has agreed to counsel our daughter. He has spoke with her several times and has stated that he believes that she is truly repentant and also that she is carrying a lot of "stuff" from this ordeal and needs to talk several more times to "unload". Our old church stated that they were going to send any new church we attend a letter stating that our daughter was under discipline and that she should not attend..so far that has not happened. We are praying that our new church will find favor with her and with us and that they will disregard a letter. I feel like they are hunting us down and will not let us rest or find a spiritual home. I am so weary.
...we also reported our pastor to our district superintendant. We called the national office and they would not deal with it unless we contacted the district office first. The district superintendant was very sypathetic to us and was concerned. He called our pastor and talked to him and called us back and his attitude has turned 180 degrees. Was totally against us. We know that our pastor and this man are personal friends, so we have no hope there. They sent us another letter after that calling us to a meeting with the pastors, elders, and the district head. We are to sign a statement saying that we will stay in this meeting until there is reconciliation and everything is worked out, with no time limit (hours? days?). I feel like this is a trap. We have to send a letter with our grievances and only that will be discussed, and we can not talk or mention anyone who is not in the room. My husband and I am against this, and dont think we will agree to go or to meet again. We dont know where that will lead.
...my dad, who is 94, was very distraught about all of this and he went into the pastor to visit him about all this. Our pastor lost his temper and absolutely cut my father apart. He stop in front of him and yelled and shook his finger in his face. He told my dad that he was making accusations about the pastor harrassing us. My dad came home and he had slips of paper with the word ACCUSATION written on them all over the house. He has slipped into a depression, has stopped eating, has had several falls, has been hopitalized, and was in the nursing home for a week. Now he has been dismissed home, and I have to care for him now, too...
...in the midst of all this, a young man has dropped into my daughters life. He is a Christian, kind, gentle, steadfast...my daughter is scared to death that the church will find out and they will send people to visit him. That has happened to other people in the church who dated after a divorce. ...I am just so broken, and hurt. I am truly beginning to doubt the call of Christ in anyone, including my own...why is this happening and how can I get it to stop? I was a work the other night and a friend from church was discussing a small unrelated thing involving her daughter, I mentioned that had happened to my daughter too, and as soon as I mentioned her name she turned around and walked away...conversation ended..my daughter is dead, they dont even mention her name or let me speak of her. I guess that's how they cast her out as a heathen or a tax collector. She has told them she is sorry. They told her that they want to see her forever broken.
I just need help and prayers. Thats about all I can think of thats new...I thought I would let you know.

[Robinbobbin]

Annie, there is nothing Christian or Christ-like about the way you are being treated.

Do not go to the meeting. You owe them nothing. Your daughter owes them nothing. Your DH owes them nothing. You Father owest them nothing.

I am so sorry you and your family are going through this. I'll continue to pray for your family and your daughter.

[IMSAVED]

Well, a couple of things.

He could have manifested mental illness. It is VERY common for things like bipolar disorder and all to pop up in the early 20's. However, he has to WANT to get help, take whatever he is given, as directed, and live a pretty quiet life. Anyway...

Regarding the church, you said it was:


You're wrong.

IT IS ABUSE.

I would leave the church. The fact that the pastor completely neglected a young woman in crisis, for SIX WEEKS, says it all.

The fact that he would berate her for ending a marriage her husband terminated... .

I really hope you are not giving them any money.

I agree Acts

[Lynn]

Annie, in light of your recent post regarding the pastor's behavior toward your dad, the only thing left that I can think of to do is to pack up and move far away from this group of irrational, un-Christlike behaving people. I know that this is more easily said than done, but if it's at all possible, please do at least consider it. Apparently, just going to church in a neighboring community isn't far enough. I know that moving away sounds kind of extreme, but this situation is destroying all of you. There have been many times when whole families have re-located due to too much stress in their present location. It's not that unusual. In order to preserve your sanity, and the joy and peace that Christ intends you to have, you need to get 'away'. Some difficulties, such as yours, just can't be fixed as long as the dust on your feet hasn't yet been fully shaken, and it can't be, if you continue to run into folks from this church and have to endure their rudeness to your family. I'm amazed at how all of you have been treated!

If you decide a distant move is indeed worth it, when you find a church to join, you can unite in fellowship 'by statement' instead of by letter from previous church. Also, this is no time for loyalty to a particular denomination. There are plenty of ifca-affiliated Bible churches as well as Calvary Chapels that don't have a direct line to any denomination. I am so sorry, Annie, that your dear family has been put through this. Thank you for updating us, as some of us were wondering how things were going.

[Robinbobbin]

Annie, I was thinking about this a lot last night.

First, I'd call the district superindentant immediately to talk to him about how the Pastor treated your elderly father. Make it clear that it was abuse. Not a discussion. But exactly what was said and the emotional and physical toll it has had on your father. Also, send a certified letter with return receipt to the district superintendent and CC the main offices of the denomination detailing at length all of the abuse your family has suffered at the hands of the Pastor at your old church culminating with the recent abuse of your father. Be explicit. In that letter spell out VERY clearly what he did and what he said to your father and the health impacts the "Pastor's" actions have had on your frail, elderly father. Be clear. ANd make it known that the Pastor has crossed the line into elder abuse. You will not now or EVER attend any meetings with him or the elders. Period.

Personally, I would also contact Adult Protective Services about how this Pastor treated your father and the impact it has had on him. My concern is that if the Pastor raked your father over the coals like this over your family's issues then what is he doing to the elderly man or woman who can not tithe right now, or the elderly man or woman who makes a misstep and doesn't have family to bolster him/her. Everything he's done to your family has been wrong -- very very very wrong - but to me, this crosses the line into actual elder abuse and needs to be dealt with swiftly and strongly.

[Acts5:41]

Excellent ideas, Robin.

If you have the Accusation papers, keep them for documentation.

Also contact the head office.

DO NOT SIGN ANYTHING, or go to any meetings.

What a horrible perversion. I know Jesus is furious.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

Annie , I don't have any words of advice (others here have done that so well), I simply wanted to give you a hug and let you know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.

[BelovedChild]

Hi Annie

I have just found this thread for the first time. You and your family have certainly been under attack.

Why has your daughter been under condemnation? From what I have read, she certainly tried to save her marriage. I must ask this question. Are the husband's family in any way connected to the old church uyou went to. do they "control" the "pastor".

Your SIL left, kicked her out, cut off all contact. He is to blame. He wanted the marriage, then walked out.

Your daughter had to let him go in peace as in ICor 7. She needed her family's support. You all did the right thing by her.
Just go. your old church is extremely legalistic. There is none of the love and mercy of Jesus Christ.

[Shannon9602]

Annie, in light of your recent post regarding the pastor's behavior toward your dad, the only thing left that I can think of to do is to pack up and move far away from this group of irrational, un-Christlike behaving people. I know that this is more easily said than done, but if it's at all possible, please do at least consider it. Apparently, just going to church in a neighboring community isn't far enough. I know that moving away sounds kind of extreme, but this situation is destroying all of you. There have been many times when whole families have re-located due to too much stress in their present location. It's not that unusual. In order to preserve your sanity, and the joy and peace that Christ intends you to have, you need to get 'away'. Some difficulties, such as yours, just can't be fixed as long as the dust on your feet hasn't yet been fully shaken, and it can't be, if you continue to run into folks from this church and have to endure their rudeness to your family. I'm amazed at how all of you have been treated!

If you decide a distant move is indeed worth it, when you find a church to join, you can unite in fellowship 'by statement' instead of by letter from previous church. Also, this is no time for loyalty to a particular denomination. There are plenty of ifca-affiliated Bible churches as well as Calvary Chapels that don't have a direct line to any denomination. I am so sorry, Annie, that your dear family has been put through this. Thank you for updating us, as some of us were wondering how things were going.

After all what was done and said, its not getting better. Its getting worse. It does not like sound it would do any good if you contact the director because that route has failed. I consider this a form of harassment and mental abuse. I would not have anything to do with those people and the town you live in. I don't see how you and your family has put up with this so far. What was done between your daughter and ex SIL has been done and over with. They need to get past it.... and they need to learn forgiveness. Tell them to get over it and get a life.

I agree with Lynn here. Pack up and move. Get far away from them as much as you can. I mean far!!!! Don't even let anyone know where you guys are located. Take your dad with you if you can. It is none of their business what you guys do at this point.

IMO, the people you are dealing with sounds like a cult. Not christian at all!!! GET AWAY FROM THEM!!! Don't even look at them in the eye and say one word to them!!! If they continue to harass you after you guys up and leave, I would hope you march yourself in the county clerks office and file for a restraining order and press charges on them for harassment.

Oh!! One last thing.. you can sue them for defamation. That's what all this sounds like!

[IMSAVED]

Hi Annie

I have just found this thread for the first time. You and your family have certainly been under attack.

Why has your daughter been under condemnation? From what I have read, she certainly tried to save her marriage. I must ask this question. Are the husband's family in any way connected to the old church uyou went to. do they "control" the "pastor".

Your SIL left, kicked her out, cut off all contact. He is to blame. He wanted the marriage, then walked out.

Your daughter had to let him go in peace as in ICor 7. She needed her family's support. You all did the right thing by her.
Just go. your old church is extremely legalistic. There is none of the love and mercy of Jesus Christ.

That is my question.What has your daughter been put under condemnation?For no reason at all?I am sorry but I never make a conclusion until I hear both sides.

[biblegirl]

I too just found this thread. Annie, the behavior of your pastor and the church elders sounds very disturbing. Nowhere in the bible are church leaders instructed to hound someone into fellowship. To be honest, your pastor sounds either cunningly manipulative or a bit unhinged. You need to document every incident perpetrated by this pastor or any of the church elders. Save any written evidence as well. If they continue to harrass you, your daughter, or any other family member, tell them that you will seek a restraining order against them. If they do continue the harrassment, go get that restraining order. Yes, it may mean having to pay a lawyer, but it may be your best hope of putting this nasty mess behind you.

One more thing, this pastor is trying to make your daughter feel condemned and your entire family feel guilty. This is not how God works. True conviction from God is through the Holy Spirit and leads to repentence and restoration. Satan is the author of finger pointing and hopeless condemnation. My prayer for you and your family is to find a loving, bible believing church to help you heal from this ugly situation and find peace and joy in Christ again.

[Robinbobbin]

IMO, the people you are dealing with sounds like a cult. Not christian at all!!! GET AWAY FROM THEM!!! Don't even look at them in the eye and say one word to them!!! If they continue to harass you after you guys up and leave, I would hope you march yourself in the county clerks office and file for a restraining order and press charges on them for harassment.

Oh!! One last thing.. you can sue them for defamation. That's what all this sounds like!

I agree with you completely.

They've crossed into harassment and they have now caused physical harm to your father. It's time for the restraining order and I also agree about the defemation suit. If they are publicly harassing you and houding you and are slandering your name, it is time to take legal action to make them stop dead in their tracks.

I would absolutely not have any contact with the church Pastor or the elders from this moment forward.

[mbrown1219]

http://www.gty.org/resources/sermons/41-61

I have requested permission from a moderator to post this link, which I feel may be helpful to you and your family as a sermon on the subject of hypocrisy. Permission was granted. I hope you will have time to listen and/or print the sermon and that it will soothe your soul in your ongoing distress.

Love in Christ,

[Carrie Grace]

I just am stunned by this church and its pastor and everything surrounding this.

Seriously, Christians wonder why unbelievers think Christians are hypocrites? THIS right here is why. If I were to go seeking and attended that church, I would be totally turned off to Christianity. Possibly forever. The behavior of the members of the church, too, is outrageous. I really want to know...who ARE these people? It sounds like a cult.

I agree with what others have said. Have nothing further to do with this pastor or the church. Absolutely nothing. They call? Hang up. They come to your door, don't answer. This is harrassment pure and simple. What kind of Christ-like behavior is this? The more I think about this, the more angry I am for you and your family. And now abusing your father! This is horrible! As suggested upthread, I would think about packing up and moving. At the very least, get that restraining order. And document EVERYthing. This has to stop.

I am so sorry your family has to deal with this. So very sorry.

[Carrie Grace]

Personally, I would also contact Adult Protective Services about how this Pastor treated your father and the impact it has had on him. My concern is that if the Pastor raked your father over the coals like this over your family's issues then what is he doing to the elderly man or woman who can not tithe right now, or the elderly man or woman who makes a misstep and doesn't have family to bolster him/her. Everything he's done to your family has been wrong -- very very very wrong - but to me, this crosses the line into actual elder abuse and needs to be dealt with swiftly and strongly.

Robin is absolutely right. This has to be stopped. Who knows what this man (I don't even want to call him a pastor) is capable of, if HE feels somehow slighted or wronged. He has made himself the center of this, where he has no business being. This is no shepherd. This is a ravenous wolf.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

I am sorry but I never make a conclusion until I hear both sides.

Good advice... that I should take more often.

[Robinbobbin]

Annie, how are you holding up? How is your Dad feeling?

Just thinking about you and praying for you.

[gma dolittle]

Annie,
I am sick at heart reading your post and I fear for you. That paster and the elders sound like a cult to me. They are controlling, intimidating, harressing, and going so far as putting those slips of paper on your father's house could be called terristic threatening. Go see a Distric Attorney. Get advice. With all they are doing to you amounts to hate threatening. What comes next? Do they physically hurt one of you? Get help as fast as you can from the leagel athorties because it sounds like the church afiliation athorities are not going to do anything. But... you can bet they will if the DA gets involved and this goes public! Don't wait. grandma