A Signless Event

[MaranathaLJ]

ronbo:

Even though it says nobody knows the day or hour? Jesus spent most of Matthew Chapter 24 describing signs that would

preceed His return why would he even waste his breath if it was a set day that we could already know. Nothing personal

but your comment makes no sense as related to what the scriptures say.

[ronbo477]

Sorry Maranatha
What I meant was the quote (that we should know it was at the door previously) mentioned was said to be the 2nd coming. I see it as a sudden event. the reason being the second coming is docuemented to the day. No offense taken.
I sometimes have a problem expressing myself I'm 64 and had cancer several times so I apologise in advance if I'm misunderstood.

[In Christ]

Yes, great post and thank-you... however I believe the 7 year peace agreement will already be in place, as Israel will be living in 'unwalled villages' when the Gog/Magog war happens. I think this is mentioned in Ezk 38 ?

Do you see "Unwalled Villages" as being a metaphor? Is it literal or could it simply mean "living in peace/without worry"?

[momoffaith]

I believe we are seeing many signs that signal, tell us that this signless event is getting closer to being fulfilled.
To me I see the rapture as signless, as there will be no warning, nothing that must happen first. Like no yellow light before a red light.
Jesus laid out so many signs for us to watch for because He wanted us to know it was approaching

[OtherSideOfTheBoat]

I believe we will first hear the trumpet and a shout something to the effect, "Behold the Bridegroom. Come out to me him." That's about 3-5 seconds?

[dleader]

It would be so nice to get out of all the headaches and heartaches of this world. I hope we get to go soon. I just keep watching for signs to set up the tribulation and know that we will be gone before it starts.

[Not Perfect, But Forgiven]

It would be so nice to get out of all the headaches and heartaches of this world. I hope we get to go soon. I just keep watching for signs to set up the tribulation and know that we will be gone before it starts.

I know how that feels, but just think, one day we will be absolutely incapable of any form of suffering. Let alone that we will never suffer again, but because of Jesus, we won't be able to suffer again! We will be completely immune from sin and all of its brutalities forever. It's sometimes hard to get motivated about it, because we live here. The only way out is death or the Rapture, and both can sometimes seem like a ridiculously long time away. I look out my window sometimes, or at the world around me as I drive, and it feels like the amount of time we have left is enormous. It feels like an amount of years that can't be measured by a stack of calenders, but more closely resembles a video game score. Then, I notice the signs Jesus talked about. I notice the mean and angry people, the atheists who claim to not believe in God and think religion is stupid, but are obsessed with God and convincing others that they are fools for believing in anything other than themselves. I see the leaders we have in place. I see the thefts, the murders, the terrorists, the economy, the insane weather, the sin and deprevity we endure daily. This world just reeks of the tribulation. It's just waiting to pop off. All that's left is the Rapture. Take hope my friend. You'll be flying the skies in your new body before you know it.

[WVBORN56]

Keep watching Turkey. Erdogen is sounding a lot like imanutjob from Iran. This may be the start or the beginning roots of Ezekeil 38-39 war. If so I agree we could be going home sooner rather than later. We already know Hamas is a ticking time bomb and if the UN vote does not pan out for the PA statehood I look for the Isaiah 17 war to start as well. So many things are on the verge.... the least of which is the delicate global economy. I can't see these things hanging in limbo for much longer...time to pray-up, witness-up with some holy living on the up and up! Jesus your bride longs to see you face to face. Come soon!

[HeIsEnough]

The rapture is a signless event. Yet the signs Jesus told us would happen prior to the rapture are happening. In fact the signs for the tribulation are showing up. So we must be close to the rapture.

He will come as a thief to those asleep, those who sleep are sleeping after all.

Those not asleep, we are to keep watch, knowing His appearing is close, right at the door. It certainly would not have surprised us if it was in the last few days. The same cannot be said for many who profess Christ and have heard the warnings.

There is not much in between these two, like date setting or scoffing.

Many fall into one of the three, scoffing (not believing it at all and actively working against hope), date setting or sleeping (similar to scoffers but apathetic to His return).

Those in none of those positions keep watch, lamps lit, looking for and loving the appearing of the Lord.

Many just don't like this sort of 'ambiguity', but the Lord is wiser than us, knowing what men should do and how they should live and think while we wait. It produces things the other paths do not, and He even details why they do not produce the sort of righteousness He desires in His people. It also teaches us things about the Lord, things we may not otherwise realize or be enlightened about.

[Lamptomyfeet]

Do you see "Unwalled Villages" as being a metaphor? Is it literal or could it simply mean "living in peace/without worry"?

Hmmm...yes I was seeing it as literal, maybe it is a metaphor as you suggest. I will have to study this a bit more. (Sorry for not replying sooner, I did not see your question until today).

[Morganite]

I've given this a lot of thought lately, what is it that triggers the rapture? What is the delay? How long before the tribulation starts will the rapture happen? It starts with the meaning of the word "Harpazo". All sources I have ever heard or read say it means: to seize; to carry off by force or to snatch out or away. I have also heard it is used in the context of snatching out of harms way. If it does indeed mean to snatch away quickly, out of harms way, what danger to us would cause the Lord to carry us off in this manner?

My conclusion is that the Wrath of God, which the church is not subject too, is the only danger that would cause the Lord to remove the church suddenly from the entire world. Christians have been persecuted and died ever since our Savior was crucified, so it's not human hatred for Christ and the danger it subjects the church to that causes the rapture. It can only be the Wrath of God, that is so terrible, that would cause the Lord to send our Bridegroom to snatch us away and out of danger.

Being merciful and wanting as many people as possible to believe and be saved before the rapture happens, the Lord is likely to wait until the last possible moment. I don't see the rapture happening years, months or weeks before the tribulation starts. Rather, I think because of the Lord's lovingkindness, that He would wait until mere days, hours or even minutes before snatching us away, leaving Him free to vent His full wrath on an unbelieving mankind.

These are just my thoughts but one thing is for certain, the Holy Spirit wouldn't be at work in so many Bible believing Christians lives letting us know the time is near, unless the time was truly near, even at the door!

I'm with you on this!
I've concluded that rapture/trib(70thweek) could possibly start on the same day! And I believe the trigger is God's Fury. And what your saying, Versimilitude fits right in. I hadn't thought about the "snatch or seize" before.

I came to this conclusion from reading Isaiah and Jeremiah.

But the one verse that really convinced me was Isa.63:4

Isa. 63:4
"For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come."

[Scotty066]

He will come as a thief to those asleep, those who sleep are sleeping after all.

Those not asleep, we are to keep watch, knowing His appearing is close, right at the door. It certainly would not have surprised us if it was in the last few days. The same cannot be said for many who profess Christ and have heard the warnings.

There is not much in between these two, like date setting or scoffing.

Many fall into one of the three, scoffing (not believing it at all and actively working against hope), date setting or sleeping (similar to scoffers but apathetic to His return).

Those in none of those positions keep watch, lamps lit, looking for and loving the appearing of the Lord.

Many just don't like this sort of 'ambiguity', but the Lord is wiser than us, knowing what men should do and how they should live and think while we wait. It produces things the other paths do not, and He even details why they do not produce the sort of righteousness He desires in His people. It also teaches us things about the Lord, things we may not otherwise realize or be enlightened about.

Very True, excellent post, thank you
In fact I like everyones comments

[MathMan]

I believe we are seeing many signs that signal, tell us that this signless event is getting closer to being fulfilled.
To me I see the rapture as signless, as there will be no warning, nothing that must happen first. Like no yellow light before a red light.
Jesus laid out so many signs for us to watch for because He wanted us to know it was approaching

Excellent analogy!!

[momoffaith]

Excellent analogy!!

Well thank you. I was trying hard to describe what I thought. I'm glad it came across

I see you are new-Welcome!!

[Sandee]

I have been watching the dominoes lining up for a while now. The financial meltdown of Greece due within days, missle threats against Tel Aviv, It is as though the Lord has allowed events to reach the tipping point then he puts them into a holding pattern. The Ezekiel 38 war is ready to fly, Economic chaos in right in the wings ready to go, Isreal threatens Damascus with annilation if they hit TA. And that was only today!! The world is so up side down with wrong right and right wrong that even unbelievers see that SOMETHING catastrophic has to happen, and soon.

The problem is that there is a group of people that are in the way, and until the restrainer (and us) are removed I don't think God can let the feathers fly.

Don't get discouraged now, we are almost there, I can just about smell it.

If Greece is bankrupt, it will bring down the whole Eurpoean banking system, and we are running a close second with Japan nipping at our heels. This situation can not continue for months let alone weeks, Greece has only a few days at most.

It facinates me that all this commotion is happening at the same time.

Only God can control what is happening, Keep Looking Up!!

[MathMan]

Well thank you. I was trying hard to describe what I thought. I'm glad it came across

I see you are new-Welcome!!

Thanks for the welcome. Perhaps we are coming towards a yellow light? You just never know how long they will last, but you know it's never long...

[vegan]

To answer the original question succinctly as possibly, yes. We are extremely close, right there, in Heaven's terms. To the eternal God, several years is the same as several thousand years. He is outside of time itself, and yet, can operate in it and effect us in a myriad of ways whenever He choses. While He completely understands our concept of "time," since He gave us the ability to perceive and use it to our benefit, we must realize the eternal scale.

Jesus told the apostle of Revelation that His Return is at the door over a millenium ago. To God, that is the same as yesterday. He is, after all, the Ancient of Days, as one of His many titles. All of Heaven is one eternal day. To us, several months or years is a VERY long time, because we have temporal bodies with temporal minds. Everything about us is extremely mortal. We are even succeptible to death. *GASP!!!* But PRAISE BE TO GOD!! He understands! Jesus Christ endured everything we did, so He fully understands our concept of time. In fact, He invented it. God said about the tribulation that "if those days were not shortened, no flesh would survive." Notice how He refers to the 7 year tribulation as "days." The "days of Noah" (who actually lived hundreds of years.) The bible is full of referenes to God referring to our lives as a blip on the radar of eternity. Our lives are "as a vapor" according to scripture, so first, we must understand that in heavenly terms, our lives start and are over in an extremely short period of time.

While God does not operate according to our times, He does use our times to influence us and the entire universe. Prophecy is an example of this. So, anyone who thinks they know when the Rapture might be is playing a completely futile game of nebulous variables. "Imminent" means nothing is required to precede the rapture, but we are given one clue! He said that when the full number of the Gentiles is in, the Rapture will occur. Seeing as the world is in such a horrible state morally, we can infer that the full number is nearing completion, sort of a co-ocurring phenomenon. However, it is by no means indicative of the Rapture itself. The world has always been messed up since the Fall. We only know that the Rapture will happen in such a time as this. Different parts of the bible refer to various elements that will be present in the world at the time of His return for the Church: high crime, all kinds of sins, moral depravity, extreme violence, advanced technology, etc. All of these things exist now.

Basically, everything is already in place, so if the Rapture occured right now, prophecy would be 100% fulfilled. Knowing the Rapture precedes the tribulation, this gives another problem to those trying to say they know when the Rapture is, becasue there is nothing to indicate it's coming. Everything will be "normal" until the instant of the Rapture, and then complete chaos. The only way I would get nervous is if I flip on the TV and see an unsually charismatic man talking about unifying the world, it's currencies, its religions and creating a utopia of peace on planet earth with people hanging onto his every word. I know he's probably the anti-christ and I'm not supposed to be here to see that, because he can't be revealed until we are gone! Yes he's probably alive, and yes we probably have seen him without even knowing it, BUT we aren't supposed to know YET! I'm content with finding out from the balconies of heaven.

Since only God Almighty knows the exact number of the Gentiles to be saved, and therefore the exact moment of the Rapture down to what will be on each of our mind's individually when it happens, there is no way we will know until we are flying vertically through cloud and sky, ripped from our lives as we know them. We are close, but we won't know until the Rapture just how close. But when it does happen, it will be unmistakable! You know, I need a vacation. 7 years in Heaven followed by 1000 years and then eternity with Jesus sounds great. That's what keeps me going! Knowing that at ANY moment now, all of this life will be left behind forever, and I'll never die, and I'll be with Jesus, THAT is the joy of my salvation! The cares of this life are so tiny from the eternal perspective that I even feel a sense of shame sometimes for catching myself worrying. That's the human condition (besides sin and other things.)

What a great post! It is such a joy to know that one day soon all are cares will be gone and we will be with Jesus forever more. I personally can't wait for that day to come soon enough. However if that means I have to wait years until my last brother or sister comes to Christ so be it. We will all be together soon enough I say the more the merrier.

[ronbo477]

With the rapture being a signless event there cannot be direct signs of it. The mulitude of signs, we see, portend the start Great Tribulation. Therefore the rapture must be so close we are to look up because as embassadors we are about to be recalled. Even so come quickly Lord

[Mr. Duffee]

Hi momoffaith

In short, I personally hold to the view that current world events and changes indicate the 'season' that leads into the tribulation period and the rapture.



I like this short parable, as Jesus refers to the generation that will "see all these things" and to know that His coming is close. Even if it refers to His second coming, it still shows how close we are to the rapture because there is only a seven or so year period between the rapture and His return to the earth. Current events are escalating in a manner that indicate the seven year finale is on the horizon.

+1

[GregoryS]

I believe when the last savable Gentile is saved the Rapture will take place, And since that moment depends on the free will of that last gentile who ever she or he may be The rapture is in flux. A little unpredictable. This means to me that when the time of the gentiles is over and the rapture takes place, the difficulty to finding and holding on to salvation will be tremendous. The Lord will have turned his face towards the Jews and the restrainer will have been removed. How will a man who has ignored Christ during this time when it is actually so easy to be saved, How will a man suddenly turn himself around to be a hard core believer in Christ with out the Holy spirit, While a Lie exists that even The Lord himself will help to instill, I truly believe if they don't believe it now they truly will not give it a second thought after the rapture, It will all be explained away and the false Church that will be left behind will have all the answers to sooth those questions of what happened to Aunt Ruby and Uncle Bob! I hate to say it but I truly think the Rapture is the last ship out of this hellish earth, For most of the left behind gentiles there will be no second chances. Its why there isnt a day to waist! Think of those events that we are waiting on and let folks on the fence know when they see these things happening they have to make a decision, Because if they miss it after a few days they wont even realize they did. The Lie will be all powerful and convincing.
My 2 cents on it anyway,
GS