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Thread: William Branham?

  1. #21
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default Trinity

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara224 View Post
    You should check the link LaMontre gave. Obviously, you are failing to understand me.

    The trinity consists of Three Persons who are all one God. (Not three manifestations of one God).
    If you believe that there are not three gods than why do you call yourself a trinitarian? You obviously believe in one god. Trinitarians believe in three gods.

  2. #22
    LaMontre Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    If Jesus is not the Father than your making two gods. Jesus and the Father are the same thing, God in two different manifestations.
    Yes but, for instance, they have separate functions in your salvation;

    The Father Chose you (in the Son);
    Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
    Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

    The Son redeemed you;
    Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

    The Holy Spirit sealed you;
    Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise,

    These are separate functions of each, happening at the same time.

  3. #23
    Tamara224 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    If you believe that there are not three gods than why do you call yourself a trinitarian? You obviously believe in one god. Trinitarians believe in three gods.

    No, GodsLove, you are now being obtuse. Trinitarians do not believe in three gods. That is a misunderstanding and/or a strawman argument. I am a trinitarian who, along with all other trinitarians, believes in One God in Three Persons: the very definition of Trinity.

  4. #24
    -GodsLove- Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara224 View Post
    No, GodsLove, you are now being obtuse. Trinitarians do not believe in three gods. That is a misunderstanding and/or a strawman argument. I am a trinitarian who, along with all other trinitarians, believes in One God in Three Persons: the very definition of Trinity.
    So that gives him three personalities which makes him three different people which makes him three different gods.

  5. #25
    Tamara224 Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    So that gives him three personalities which makes him three different people which makes him three different gods.
    Study up on it a little bit. Come back when you begin to understand.

  6. #26
    LaMontre Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    So that gives him three personalities which makes him three different people which makes him three different gods.
    In your opinion....lets keep this in context.

  7. #27
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara224 View Post
    Study up on it a little bit. Come back when you begin to understand.

    I understand. What I don't understand is how you can say God is three different people but than say there is one God. What I believe is that God is one person filling three different offices. Right now he is filling the office or title of the Holy Ghost so he can live within us until he returns in flesh.

  8. #28
    LaMontre Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    I understand. What I don't understand is how you can say God is three different people but than say there is one God. What I believe is that God is one person filling three different offices. Right now he is filling the office or title of the Holy Ghost so he can live within us until he returns in flesh.
    Who was Jesus praying to?
    Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus said he was with the Father before the world was. Was he lying to us here??

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    John says Jesus was with God at the beginning. Is this a lie?

  9. #29
    Tamara224 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    I understand. What I don't understand is how you can say God is three different people but than say there is one God.
    I didn't say God is three different people. I said God is three persons. There is a distinction in those two words.

    How can a husband and wife be "one flesh" when they are still obviously two people?

    The answer is that there is more to it than our limited human understanding can comprehend.

    God is One and Three, at the same time. There's a fancy term for it: hypostatic union.

    What I believe is that God is one person filling three different offices. Right now he is filling the office or title of the Holy Ghost so he can live within us until he returns in flesh.
    So, you're "oneness" then? I disagree with this because Jesus said He went to be with the Father and He was sending someone else to comfort us until He returns. The Father is in Heaven, the Son (Jesus) at His right hand and the Holy Spirit dwells in the temples (us). That's what the Bible says. So, any understanding of "manifestations" that contradicts the Bible, is wrong.

  10. #30
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
    Who was Jesus praying to?
    Joh 17:1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:
    Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
    Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
    Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
    Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

    Jesus said he was with the Father before the world was. Was he lying to us here??

    Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
    Joh 1:2 The same was in the beginning with God.

    John says Jesus was with God at the beginning. Is this a lie?

    Jesus was in flesh form and the father was Jesus's theophany (his perfect spirit) which gave Jesus a gateway to understand what his purpose was. Just like us when we understand through revelation the Word of God we are hearing from our theophany because we are still in flesh. If you read the bible we have a theophany waiting for us, just like when Jesus was in flesh had his theophany (father) waiting for him. That doesn't make us two persons but when we hear (revelation) from our theophany it gives us guidance and understanding of who we are and what our purpose is. This was the relationship between the Jesus and him hearing from the Father (his theophany). But of course the difference between our theophanies and Christ's is that he was perfect.

    To be honest no man can intellectually understand the great mystries of God, but through prayer and revelation they can be made known to us. You can't give someone a revelation. They have to experience it for themselves.

    John 14: 8-10 (King James Version)
    8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

  11. #31
    LaMontre Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    Jesus was in flesh form and the father was Jesus's theophany (his perfect spirit) which gave Jesus a gateway to understand what his purpose was.
    You cannot produce a scripture to support this. It sounds more like a new ager's statement than a Christians.

    Just like us when we understand through revelation the Word of God we are hearing from our theophany because we are still in flesh. If you read the bible we have a theophany waiting for us, just like when Jesus was in flesh had his theophany (father) waiting for him. That doesn't make us two persons but when we hear (revelation) from our theophany it gives us guidance and understanding of who we are and what our purpose is.
    I hear from God, through his word. From this statement, I cannot be sure who your hearing from?

    This was the relationship between the Jesus and him hearing from the Father (his theophany). But of course the difference between our theophanies and Christ's is that he was perfect.

    To be honest no man can intellectually understand the great mystries of God, but through prayer and revelation they can be made known to us. You can't give someone a revelation. They have to experience it for themselves.

    John 14: 8-10 (King James Version)
    8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

    9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

    10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
    These verses support my contention, not yours. They say that Jesus AND the Father (two persons) are one.

  12. #32
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tamara224 View Post
    I didn't say God is three different people. I said God is three persons. There is a distinction in those two words.

    How can a husband and wife be "one flesh" when they are still obviously two people?

    The answer is that there is more to it than our limited human understanding can comprehend.

    God is One and Three, at the same time. There's a fancy term for it: hypostatic union.



    So, you're "oneness" then? I disagree with this because Jesus said He went to be with the Father and He was sending someone else to comfort us until He returns. The Father is in Heaven, the Son (Jesus) at His right hand and the Holy Spirit dwells in the temples (us). That's what the Bible says. So, any understanding of "manifestations" that contradicts the Bible, is wrong.
    Im not a oneness as far as the denomination. I don't belong to a denomination, but I am a monotheistic believer.

    Monotheistic:the doctrine or belief that there is but one God


    Even psychology will tell you that a person who has three different personalities is crazy. Gods not crazy.

    Personality: the quality or state of being a person

    Person: the body of a human being;

    When you said you believe in three different persons not people. Both people and person have the same definition.

  13. #33
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
    You cannot produce a scripture to support this. It sounds more like a new ager's statement than a Christians.



    I hear from God, through his word. From this statement, I cannot be sure who your hearing from?



    These verses support my contention, not yours. They say that Jesus AND the Father (two persons) are one.

    God manifested himself in three different attributes: God the Father- as pilliar of fire leading children out of Egypt. Second time he manifested himself in flesh to be like us. Now he is manifested in us as the Holy Spirit. What makes this easy revelation difficult is when Jesus begans to refer to the Father. The only time God was flesh was when He was Jesus. He was never flesh in the Father or Holy Spirit. Since he was flesh he had to rely upon his theophany to help him become that sacrifice which is where the father comes in. The Father is just the title for his theophany. But it confuses us because we look at the word "father" carnally.

  14. #34
    Tamara224 Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    Im not a oneness as far as the denomination. I don't belong to a denomination, but I am a monotheistic believer.

    Monotheistic:the doctrine or belief that there is but one God


    Even psychology will tell you that a person who has three different personalities is crazy. Gods not crazy.

    Personality: the quality or state of being a person

    Person: the body of a human being;

    When you said you believe in three different persons not people. Both people and person have the same definition.

    All trinitarians are monotheistic as well.

    Psychology is a human understanding... it tells us nothing about God.

    People and person have the same definition in some things... but in this area of theology, the distinction between the two words has long been in place.

    In other areas as well, the word 'person' has many different meanings. For example, in legal concepts a corporation can be a 'person'.

    But, obviously, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. What bothers me is that you seem unwilling to stop building strawmen. You also seem intent on convincing others that they believe something they don't actually believe. I know why I believe in the Trinity and I know what that means. Until you can discuss this without telling me I don't believe what I say I do or that I believe something I don't... we won't get anywhere. And furthermore, I'm done with this conversation because I am beginning to believe you have another motive.

    So, research it more, find out what the Trinity really is. But I'm outa here.

  15. #35
    LaMontre Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    God manifested himself in three different attributes: God the Father- as pilliar of fire leading children out of Egypt. Second time he manifested himself in flesh to be like us. Now he is manifested in us as the Holy Spirit. What makes this easy revelation difficult is when Jesus begans to refer to the Father. The only time God was flesh was when He was Jesus. He was never flesh in the Father or Holy Spirit. Since he was flesh he had to rely upon his theophany to help him become that sacrifice which is where the father comes in. The Father is just the title for his theophany. But it confuses us because we look at the word "father" carnally.
    Sorry but this contradicts the very scripture you quoted. I mean, you either believe scripture or you believe something else;

    10Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
    Jesus was not the Father, the Father was in Him. This is clear.

  16. #36
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
    Sorry but this contradicts the very scripture you quoted. I mean, you either believe scripture or you believe something else;



    Jesus was not the Father, the Father was in Him. This is clear.

    Theophany: a visible manifestation of a deity

    Deity: god; supreme being

    In other words theophany means, the visible manifestation of God. Which is Christ.

    You say theophany is a new age statement, than so is trinity.

    The difference is the definition of theopany fits the Bible's claims perfect.

    Neither of the exact words are in the Bible, but the trinity doesn't agree with the Bible.

    Trinity: the unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead; group of three closely related persons or things

    As I said before God is not three different people.
    Last edited by -GodsLove-; May 24th, 2007 at 04:47 PM.

  17. #37
    LaMontre Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    Theophany: a visible manifestation of a deity

    Deity: god; supreme being

    In other words theophany means, the visible manifestation of God. Which is Christ.
    I can accept that, but I cannot see how that gets us any closer to supporting your contentions in this thread.

    Neither of the exact words are in the Bible, but the trinity doesn't agree with the Bible.
    In your opinion. Again, lets keep this in context. I believe I have shown with scriptural support from your own posts, that the bible indeed does illustrate the trinitarian view of God.

    You say theophany is a new age statement, than so is trinity.
    I said no such thing, I said a particular statement sounded new age, and it does.

    I am aware of of what a theophany is.

    You seem to need to put words in peoples mouths?

  18. #38
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
    I can accept that, but I cannot see how that gets us any closer to supporting your contentions in this thread.



    In your opinion. Again, lets keep this in context. I believe I have shown with scriptural support from your own posts, that the bible indeed does illustrate the trinitarian view of God.



    I said no such thing, I said a particular statement sounded new age, and it does.

    I am aware of of what a theophany is.

    You seem to need to put words in peoples mouths?
    Im sorry I though thats what you meant about "new age". True God worked in three different areas, but he wasn't three different people. It was three different manifestations, so wouldn't that make the Trinity definition wrong?

  19. #39
    LaMontre Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by -GodsLove- View Post
    Im sorry I though thats what you meant about "new age". True God worked in three different areas, but he wasn't three different people. It was three different manifestations, so wouldn't that make the Trinity definition wrong?
    Again, this is your opinion. How can I reply....where is your support?

    I mean, I can say God was a frog until he was kissed by a beautiful princess, but it doesn't mean anything without some kind of authority, outside my own opinion, to support it.

  20. #40
    -GodsLove- Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMontre View Post
    Again, this is your opinion. How can I reply....where is your support?

    I mean, I can say God was a frog until he was kissed by a beautiful princess, but it doesn't mean anything without some kind of authority, outside my own opinion, to support it.

    When God was in the manifestation of the Father he was never a person. Everytime he spoke to Abraham, Job, or whoever it was he was never a person. Now we don't see the Holy Spirit walking around as a person. The only time God was a person was when He was in Jesus Christ. So than that would mess the trinity all up.

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