Rick Warren - Saddleback Church - Purpose Driven Merged threads

[susanb]

I've also heard "eat the meat and spit out the bones".

But why would anyone be chewing on bones to begin with? Bone-chewing is for animals.

[Kerusso02]

ive tried a few times, once with my pastor a few months ago via email, when i learned that RW's book teachings would be used for an upcoming series he would be teaching on. and then i looked on RR, and sure enough i found out that beth moore was contemplative, and my church does her simulcast every year. printed out some stuff from RR about contemplative prayer for my siblings and stuff about the purpose driven movement, and they responded with, "well who can we listen to? or watch on tv? u and ur internet friends have too much time on ur hands, and are making it impossilbe to listen to any pastor." the only positive thing i have seen is that my sister refuses to read the shack. i never even mentioned it to her, buuut a friend of ours read part of it and warned her against it and was surprised by all her family members praising it. she said it was full of blaspemy and evil. and i was extremely happy to hear my sister say she would never read it.

This website is such an amazing resource. This website along with many others have led me to ask the same above question "who can we watch/listen to?" The truth is, there are still many great pastors and teachers out there. They just seem to be alot harder to find than the bad ones (unless you hang out here).

It really is too bad that using rapture ready as a resource gets turned back around on us as just having too much time on our hands, or being heretic hunters looking for apostasy under ever pulpit. Unfortunately it isn't hiding under the pulpit. All we can really do is pray that God opens their eyes and just continue to respond to His leading whatever that may be.

[JoelH]

This pastor has been our close family friend for over 10 years, and only recently has this thought process emerged. It started with Obama and has literally spiraled since then. I just cannot understand. It doesn't make sense..

This is interesting because even Billy Graham has decided to not to yoke with Obama on Christin matters. (Obama is the first US president since Harry Truman that Billy Graham or now his son Franklin Graham declines to advise) People who says like Billy Graham, Rick Warren has been badly mistreated by his brothers in Christ are misguided - Warren is a lot worse than even Billy Graham on every level, even though there have been heaps of troubling teachings coming out of Graham as well.

Give Obama another 3 months and you will find your pastor withdraws his support. Already there are signs some of the cutting-edge secular pundits are saying this man is a political disappointment (Slate for example, which is hardly politically conservative)

BTW, my own pastor church's main doesn't support Obama although he does say this man may be a genuine believers when he joins in some of these faith activities. And this is a sort of occasionally seeker sensitive church at times (the "relevant" talk could be heard sometimes, but there is no contemplative prayers, and the seeker sensitive church experiment was pretty much hushed out after a while, and the main pastor does not accept the Emergent church).

[twisty58]

I tried again in SS today when we were talking about false doctrine and how deceptive it is. You wouldn't *believe* the number of people who said, "What's wrong with Rick Warren and McLaren?" I was stunned. Christians are sucking this stuff up! How does this happen?

[billiefan2000]

I tried again in SS today when we were talking about false doctrine and how deceptive it is. You wouldn't *believe* the number of people who said, "What's wrong with Rick Warren and McLaren?" I was stunned. Christians are sucking this stuff up! How does this happen?

christians dont use Discernment


and that is how false teachers get their claws into the pulpits.


also the pastors not preaching on discernment and warning christians about false teachers is another reason this is happening.

[carob]

This is what my new almost church is up to. From the last newsletter:

From the Pastor

Someone told me Sunday morning that the only thing she was upset about, following the Billie Hanks “Call to Joy” seminar, was that she did not know before how good Billie Hanks is, and how much he has been involved in great moments in evangelical history! She said “I felt like I was having a personal conversation with him as he spoke.”



Billie is a witness to history, having traveled extensively with Billy Graham, and knowing and fellowshipping with the leading-leaders of evangelical life. Billie has mentored 32 men, so far, in his life. Many of these went on to effective ministries or businesses centered on Christ. (Like Rick Warren, whom Billie mentored in the 70’s.)



Billie is a story-teller! His seminars are very inspiring and motivating. But it’s all OLD STUFF. I mean, old as in Great Commission old, and Acts 1:8 old, and 2 Timothy 2:2.

It’s so exciting to see the methods and principles of the Bible come to life today! You will catch a vision of your mission in life: unpacked day by day.



Be sure to mark June 6 on your calendar and don’t miss Billie Hanks!



-Pastor David

Experiencing God

Ben Wright will be leading this study with the new Revised and Expanded Experiencing God material by Henry Blackaby and his son, Richard. God has used this study to touch and change millions of lives and thousands of churches around the world. For more than 16 years, God has used this study to invite people to join Him in what He is doing. While many people simply ask God to bless their plans, Experiencing God helps lead believers into a deeper love relationship, teaching them to pray to and hear from God, and to join with God in accomplishing what He purposes to do.

Sunday 4:30 PM Room C-5 Cost $20 (Began February 8)

My latest church church has praised Rick Warren the last three Sundays in a row. I am at my wits end with the SBC churches.

I had a really bad experience at the last seeker church I attended which ended with a conversation with the clueless pastor who worships a teddy bear in the sky. He and most of his staff were Obama supporters.

I'm debating on whether to point out any of the problems with this new church to the pastor. Why would he listen to a newcomer that just left the liberal SBC down the street?

I know I'm not completely crazy because the bible says I'm not crazy and RR backs me up when I know something is wrong but can't put my finger on it. Sometimes I wonder if I'm being too picky though. I'll gladly take legalism over the apostasy any day.

Now to find a yet another church that is not poisoned. I too miss being able to trust the churches.

[billiefan2000]

I too miss being able to trust the churches.

you arent alone. a lot of people (me included miss that trust also

[susanb]

I'll gladly take legalism over the apostasy any day.

I know what you mean. Even though legalism is apostasy, the opposite of this liberal hogwash, sometimes it seems that legalism is biblical. But it isn't.

There is a church here in which the people won't fraternize with other churches b/c the women in their church are "holier". Guess they don't want to be sullied by the common folk.

The Word of God is our only standard. Finding a pastor who believes that is getting more and more difficult.

[carob]

I know what you mean. Even though legalism is apostasy, the opposite of this liberal hogwash, sometimes it seems that legalism is biblical. But it isn't.

I'm glad you figured out my meaning.

[rabanes]

I wonder what Rick's chief mouthpiece Richard Abanes thinks of this..

I am not Rick Warren's chief anything. And I would very much appreciate you not spreading that piece of false information.

I have expressed my opinions of Rick Warren -- both positive and negative -- in a single book, in a variety of personal online articles, as well as through several blog/website posts. And that is where it ends. I do happen to be friends with Rick Warren, who is also my pastor. But "chief mouthpiece"? That is ridiculous, as I state on my website:

I am not now, nor have I ever been, a spokesperson (official or unofficial) for Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, or any affiliates of Saddleback Church, including Purpose Driven Ministries and pastors.com. Moreover, I have never been contracted or requested by Rick Warren, Saddleback, or any of its affiliates to publicly defend or discuss criticisms of Warren, his books, or his ministry. The comments contained in these articles are my own personal opinions expressed in response to Warren’s critics, and are based on my own investigation and research into Warren.

I have also written extensively online on multiple other issues, including racism, Mormonism, the New Age Movement, and fantasy literature for children, to name but a few of the topics I've dealt with in my ministry.

after all, Abanes has equated critics of Rick Warren's with the nazi's and the klan and David Koresh[/COLOR]

This is untrue and yet another misrepresentation of my views, beliefs, and position. After all, I myself, have voiced a number of disagreements I have with Warren.

The truth is that I have no problem with legitimate, thoughtful, loving, biblically based, careful, and accurate criticisms being voiced about ANYONE -- including Rick Warren. That is my position/belief. What I must expose and confront are false accusations being made against the brethren, which in turn divide the Body of Christ unnecessarily. Such actions by CERTAIN persons within the Online Discernment Ministry (ODM) community have been the topic of some of my own criticisms (which we all agree are necessary at times).

First, I don't believe I've ever compared anyone to a Nazi or Nazis as you seem to be citing me. Have I? But I don't have a perfect memory. If I have indeed done so, could you produce those quotes from me so that I can see them in context and comment on them?

Ironically, I am actually the one who has been called a Nazis and compared to Nazis. So, perhaps you've gotten the identity of the accusers confused.

Second, regarding the Klan, I'm not sure precisely what you're referring to. Could you produce that quote from me so I can see it and comment on it? I would certainly be willing to explain myself if I made such a remark.

Third, as for David Koresh, you neglected to put in context how I used him in comparison to ONLY CERTAIN critics of Warren. Moreover, you also failed to mention that I used the comparison not JUST BECAUSE these people criticize Warren, but more importantly, because of a certain mindset that leads them to attack FAR MORE PEOPLE than simply Warren.

Here is what I actually stated as an observation of people who are more interested in attacking others than finding common ground and discussing issues truthfully:

I have also noticing how these folks are now consistently making reference to themselves (either directly or indirectly) as the “discerning remnant” — that is the beginning of the isolationist mentality I was mentioning above. Such thinking is only a few steps away from going off and living in some compound ala Waco, TX (David Koresh and the Branch Davidians) — if not literally, then at least figuratively (i.e., by isolating the mind from rational thought and logical analysis of facts). This response in such persons is usually marked by:

1) a deep-seated “us vs. them” mentality,
2) feelings of persecution,
3) paranoia, and
4) a kind of xenophobic response to any/all attempts to have a more tolerant/civil approach to various issues or to “others” who do not feel as they do on every topic.

Clearly, I am talking about people who are not merely "critics of Rick Warren."

where is Abanes on this

Are you asking where I stand on the Hitler thing? Or, are you asking me where I stand On Ingrid Schlueter's slanderous misrepresentation of my views in that link you provided?

If it's Ingrid Schlueter and her radio program that you linked. She utterly misrepresented my views, position, and beliefs. And she will be held accountable to God.

If it's the Hitler thing, then I would say you've perverted in a most disgusting way, the OBVIOUS message of Warren. He was contrasting how dedication to something can bring about global impact!

Dedication to evil has caused horrifically evil things and helped evil men (and demonic forces) achieve their evil goals. Why? How? Partly because of the dedication, zeal, drive, and commitment of the masses.

This illustration serves to point out that if we, as God's followers (rather than Hitler's followers) were to be just as dedicated, zealous, committed, and driven to do the things of God, then think of the changes/influences that could be made globally for goodness, righteousness, and godliness.

The message was not to exalt those people or the evil deeds they committed. And that you (along with others) would interpret it in such a way is, IMHO, terrifically sick.

Richard Abanes

[BornAgain123]

Richard Abanes

What do you think of the RCC doctrine?

[Biblenuggetlady]

Thank you for your response, but don't you think that it is time for believers to take a stand and separate themselves from false teaching, the watered down Gospel, emergent apostate teachings such as we see flooding the church? You say he is your pastor, your friend...then you are in a prime position to do something about it, and if he refuses to repent and return to the true Gospel, then men such as yourself need not fellowship with darkness - not if they refuse to see the light.

Here is what I actually stated as an observation of people who are more interested in attacking others than finding common ground and discussing issues truthfully:

I have also noticing how these folks are now consistently making reference to themselves (either directly or indirectly) as the “discerning remnant” — that is the beginning of the isolationist mentality I was mentioning above. Such thinking is only a few steps away from going off and living in some compound ala Waco, TX (David Koresh and the Branch Davidians) — if not literally, then at least figuratively (i.e., by isolating the mind from rational thought and logical analysis of facts). This response in such persons is usually marked by:

1) a deep-seated “us vs. them” mentality,
2) feelings of persecution,
3) paranoia, and
4) a kind of xenophobic response to any/all attempts to have a more tolerant/civil approach to various issues or to “others” who do not feel as they do on every topic.

Clearly, I am talking about people who are not merely "critics of Rick Warren."

Are the "Koresh" crowd, in your opinion, those that call out folks like Warren, Hybels, Driskoll? Because the Bible clearly states that in the last days there will be a great falling away, itching ears will seek to be tickled instead of the truth of the Gospel. Paul NEVER taught that to reach pagans you need to lower yourself to their level to reach them, sex and foul language in the pulpit to "make yourself relevent" is an abomination and these "pastors" need to be set outside the church so satan can buffet them and hopefully they will repent and be restored. Rick Warren is doing NO favors to the body by white washing the name of "Jesus" just so he is not "offensive". Jesus said that those that follow Him WILL be seen as offensive, we've never shied away before, why now?

Before Revelation is given, the NT ends with Jude, he wanted to talk about our common salvation, but found it needful to tell believers to contend for the faith. Contending for the faith doesn't make one a cult like the Branch Davidians.

Friendship with the world is enmity with God.

We ARE called to judge our brothers, if we cannot judge them and what they preach, we have no right to judge those outside the church.

2 Tim. 4:2-3 ...preach the Word, be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

[Biblenuggetlady]

For any who are not familiar with Abanes, here is his website so you can read his articles for yourself, where he is critical of those who are not going along with "crowd"-such as Roger Oakland, Warren Smith, Lighthouse Trails, Bob DeWay, John MacArthur, Dave Hunt...need more be said?

http://abanes.com/myarticles.html

And Abanes might say he is not a spokesman for RW, however he did put out this book and defends Warren in a number of articles against those that speak out against him, in the above link and for RW: http://abanes.com/04RW_articles.html



It seems sad Mr. Abanes, that with your exposure, you have chosen to seemingly ride the fence-your books in defense of the New Agers and false teachers, are very purposefully worded as not to "offend", but when discussing those folks who defend the Truth, you are not so "kind". Your articles, books, etc...they are really defending satan's deception and aiding his internal attack on the church to destroy it from within. I pray you will find the Truth, be convicted, repent, and use the platform God has afforded you to be on His team, not coddling the new agers, purpose driven, emergent, eccumenical, apostate teachers of the last days.

[rabanes]

What do you think of the RCC doctrine?

I was raised a Roman Catholic and experienced first-hand the emotional/spiritual pain of living under: 1. a lack of biblical teaching, 2. false dogmas, 3. hypocrisy of those claiming to speak for God, and 4. rites/rituals that clutter (and often prevent) a truly life-giving relationship with God. I left the RCC when, as a late teenager, I began reading my Bible -- the Gospel of Matthew -- and saw Jesus for the first time. And understood that Christianity was about HIM, not a church, not an organization, not Mary, and certainly not some person who lives in Rome. I accepted Jesus as my Lord, left the RCC, and I have never looked back.

Having said all that, I draw a distinction between the RCC and cults like Mormons, the JWs, assorted New Age groups, and other world religions. Why? Because at the core of the RCC you still have the correct Jesus (God the Son, fully divine & fully man) and you also have the correct God (the triune, eternal Father, Son, and Holy Ghost). But these foundational truths are obscured and encrusted with a lot of junk.

So, if I were forced to categorize the RCC, I'd say it is a Christian denomination with a LOT of serious problems and doctrinal errors regarding such things as church authority, the role (or lack thereof) of Mary in our lives, communion, saints, unsubstantiated miracles, confession, the papacy, Holy orders, and several more subjects. These problems, fortunately, do not prevent someone from actually finding the true Jesus and looking to his death on the cross as the only way of salvation for them.

Now, if you disagree with me. I will ABSOLUTELY respect your difference of opinion. And, in fact, I would very much be able to sympathize with a harsher view of the RCC. But it would be your opinion. As my opinion would be my opinion. We would still be fellow believers in Christ and have no reason to divide of that difference of opinion.

don't you think that it is time for believers to take a stand and separate themselves from false teaching, the watered down Gospel, emergent apostate teachings such as we see flooding the church?

First, yes, it is time for believers to take a stand against false doctrine -- it's ALWAYS been time to do that since the first century. So, we have no argument there. Look at my books/work/ministry and you will see 15+ years of me taking a stand against false doctrine.

Second, regarding "the watered down Gospel," we must be VERY careful to not equate some different approach to preaching the true gospel (e.g., using unfamiliar illustrations, more contemporary language, etc.) as being a "watered down Gospel."

Are there pastors out there who do indeed teach a watered down gospel? YES. YES. YES.

Are there pastors out there who are being accused falsely of teaching a watered down gospel simply because those people making the accusations don't like that particular pastor's style, verbiage, and approach?
YES. YES. YES.

Brothers and sisters, we must take great care to make sure we correctly distinguish between the different teachers/preachers. That's all I'm saying.

If someone is preaching as the gospel the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, God's only son, fully divine and fully human, as the ONLY way of salvation -- and that salvation for us was secured purely by Jesus' death on the cross, and that our sins are forgiven by that shed blood, which opens up for us eternal life as a free gift of God......then they are preaching the Gospel.

Now the above can be said in a billion ways to make the point to all different kinds of people.

You say he is your pastor, your friend...then you are in a prime position to do something about it,

You are assuming that I think he is preaching a false Gospel. I do not see that. I've not heard that. And the very doctrinal teachings as found in Saddleback doctrinal studies don't include anything that is not standard. biblical, Southern Baptist teachings of the Gospel.

if he refuses to repent and return to the true Gospel, then men such as yourself need not fellowship with darkness - not if they refuse to see the light.

See previous remark...

Are the "Koresh" crowd, in your opinion, those that call out folks like Warren, Hybels, Driskoll?

Not necessarily, although they tend to indeed go up against these persons you list, which itself is irrelevant. It's not the people they are criticizing that is the issue, or that makes them the "Koresh" crowd. Please understand that. I am referring to the tactics they use to go after.....anyone.

Because the Bible clearly states that in the last days there will be a great falling away, itching ears will seek to be tickled instead of the truth of the Gospel.

Indeed. I agree. That's why my ministry has been dedicated to confronting that. My issue is with people not really defending the faith, but rather, just attacking others in the extreme under the guise of defending the faith.

Paul NEVER taught that to reach pagans you need to lower yourself to their level to reach them, sex and foul language in the pulpit to "make yourself relevent" is an abomination and these "pastors" need to be set outside the church so satan can buffet them and hopefully they will repent and be restored.

Are you talking about Driscoll? I agree. There is point that being relevant gets ridiculous and goes negative, especially when we have clear scriptures that bring some insight into proper activities like the manner in which we speak. It's wrong to become smutty in the pulpit to sound cool. It's unnecessary. You can be relevant, hip, cool, connecting, and contemporary without going there -- the way comedians can be very very very funny without swearing. Okay, so Driscoll is wrong. It's a blind spot for him. He doesn't see it. But that doesn't make him a false teacher, a heretic, or Satanic deceiver -- it makes him a sinner like you and me who has made, in our opinion, a mistake.

Rick Warren is doing NO favors to the body by white washing the name of "Jesus" just so he is not "offensive".

Because I'm not familiar with the quotes you provide, can you give a link to where Rick Warren has said or implied that he's avoiding (or white washing, as you say) the name of Jesus so he is not so "offensive." I've heard hi say "Jesus" plenty -- in church from the pulpit, in interviews, and in print. So, I'm not sure why you'd feel this way.

Contending for the faith doesn't make one a cult like the Branch Davidians.

I've never said it did. Where did I say that? But engaging in baseless attacks on other Christians and falsely accusing the brethren under the GUISE of contending for the faith is NOT actually contending for the faith. It's division. It's sin.

Friendship with the world is enmity with God.

Agreed. That verse means buying into the world system of things and embracing the world, as opposed to the ways of God. It does NOT mean having people who are friends that happen to be in the world (or, conversely, people in the world happen to like you).

We ARE called to judge our brothers, if we cannot judge them and what they preach, we have no right to judge those outside the church.

My assertion is that they are not being judged righteously, fairly, biblically, accurately. That is what I am saying. Righteous, loving, thoughtful, careful, accurate, godly, and biblical judging has been replaced by witch hunting, fear-mongering, and hate rhetoric. And thanks to the Internet, no one is being held accountable for that.

RA

[BornAgain123]

Facts:

# 12 ON LIST IS RICK WARREN:
http://tonyblairfaithfoundation.org/...y-council.html

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Cor. 6:14

"Use 'breath prayers' throughout the day, as many Christians have done for centuries. You choose a brief sentence or a simple phrase that can be repeated to Jesus in one breath."—Rick Warren from Purpose Driven LIfe, page 89

How would you feel if, let's say, your colleague wanted to talk to you, but the choice in making your response to him is, instead of saying everything all at once, just every 3 minutes, you say 3-5 words, pause, say the next 4-6 words, pause, etc.

Talking to someone is no different that talking to G-d...you show them RESPECT, and Warren's idea of *breath prayers* only do nothing but show alot of disrespect to The Almighty.

[rabanes]

For any who are not familiar with Abanes, here is his website so you can read his articles for yourself, where he is critical of those who are not going along with "crowd"-such as Roger Oakland, Warren Smith, Lighthouse Trails, Bob DeWay, John MacArthur, Dave Hunt...need more be said?

Yes. More does indeed need to be said. Please notice that on that page I also have a number of articles on other topics where in I not only defend the faith (Jude 3), but discuss false teachers/religions. Rick Warren is but one issue among many that I have dealt with over the years.

Moreover, if anyone is "going along with the crowd," I happen to think it is those people who are just believing everything they hear coming from the likes of Warren Smith, Lighthouse trails, Bob DeWaay, Dave Hunt and others. Those are the people, IMHO, who are not paying careful attention to the facts and truth, but are responding in a fear-based knee-jerk reaction to faulty information.

I posted my articles to provide additional information that shows not everything is the way it's being depicted by the Warren Smith, Lighthouse trails, Bob DeWaay, Dave Hunt crowd and the people who swallow as the unblemished truth everything that they say. The material is there. if you agree with me, fine. if you don't fine. But I provide quotes IN CONTEXT and offer explanations of things that are the truth.

And Abanes might say he is not a spokesman for RW, however he did put out this book and defends Warren in a number of articles against those that speak out against him,

I think I already mentioned this. My book on Warren is one book out of TWENTY that cover a wide range of apologetic, cult/occult, world religion, and pop culture issues. Putting out a book about Warren does not make me in any way, by any stretch of the imagination, a "spokesman for RW."

you have chosen to seemingly ride the fence-your books in defense of the New Agers and false teachers..

My books...WHAT? In "defense" of the New Agers and false teachers. What books, in the name of all that is holy, are you ready? My books expose the deception of New Agers and false teachers! What are you talking about?

Have you ever read even one of my books. EVER? Please answer.

are very purposefully worded as not to "offend",

Again, you have not even read my books. And have no idea what you're talking about. Now, you're just false accusing the brethren. My books have all been straightforward defenses of the faith once for all delivered to the saints (Jude 3). Eckhart Tolle is exposed as the false teacher and Bible-twister that he is. Mormonism is shown to be the cult that it it is. The occult dangers of harry Potter are presented unvarnished. So, please provide proof of your accusation.

Richard Abanes

[Trust&Obey]

Because I'm not familiar with the quotes you provide, can you give a link to where Rick Warren has said or implied that he's avoiding (or white washing, as you say) the name of Jesus so he is not so "offensive." I've heard hi say "Jesus" plenty -- in church from the pulpit, in interviews, and in print. So, I'm not sure why you'd feel this way.

How about the Inaugural Prayer and praying in the name of Jesus with the inclusion of "Isa".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6T-gtUktwk

Isa is the Muslim's version of Jesus and is not the Jesus of the Bible. To include that reference was for appeasement only.

Appeasement (definition): To make quiet; to calm; to reduce to a state of peace; to still; to pacify; to dispel (anger or hatred); acquiring of peace by way of concessions.

[JayMar]

Richard Abanes,

I have a question regarding your defense of Rick Warren where you said that you have never heard him preach a false gospel. I am quite familiar with the Purpose Driven Church model having been part of two churches that went "Purpose Driven." The "Gospel" these churches reverted to was decidedly dumbed down from what they preached before. What I mean is that after the change no one ever preached a sermon about Hell, the purpose of the Law, or the real reason people need salvation. The sermons available to pastors from Sermons.com are also decidedly low on theology.

Now with that in mind, we also see Rick Warren being highly ecumenical even to the point of being shoulder to shoulder with people such as Robert Schuler and our new President. On one had you have one who professes to be Christian but rejects Justification by Faith alone (Sola Fide). Then our president rejects not only this, but also Sola Scriptura. Now this should raise a huge red flag. It is hard for most of us to see Rick Warren as one who upholds these things when He is lines himself up in purpose with those who are not, by orthodox definition, Christians at all.

[rabanes]

I do not understand the defense of preachers who do not preach the gospel.. which IS repentant faith in Jesus Christ and NOT just "Christ following"

I assume, then, that this would leave Rick Warren out of the picture, since he teaches repentance:

“Do I ever preach repentance? Of course I preach repentance. That’s the basic message of the New Testament—repentance. . . . You ask, ‘How do you preach on a negative passage?’ With a humble, loving attitude—not superior to your hearers. We’re all in the same boat. When you preach on a negative passage you confess, ‘I’ve fallen short here, too.’ Change the pronouns from ‘you’ to 'we’” (Warren, “How to Communicate to Change Lives,” part 1, session 3, 1997).

“The ultimate paradigm shift is repentance.” “Repentance is change at the deepest level.” “[You] don’t change people’s minds. The applied Word of God does.” “The deepest kind of preaching is preaching for repentance.” “Repentance is the central theme of the New Testament” (Warren, “The Purpose of Preaching,” part 2, Preaching Conference, n.d.).

“What is the path way back to purity? 1. Repent. Repent means ‘to change your mind.’ . . . It means I change my mind and say, ‘You were right God. It was wrong. It’s sin.’ I don’t rationalize it. I don’t excuse it. I don’t say everybody’s doing it. I say, ‘It was wrong’” (Warren, Maintaining Moral Purity, 1997).

“The biblical term for ‘changing your mind’ is ‘repentance’—What do most people think of when I say the word ‘repent’? . . . They think of some kook. But the word ‘repentance’ is a wonderful word—metanoia—which means in Greek ‘to change your mind.’ Repentance is just changing the way we think about something by accepting the way God thinks about it. That’s all repentance is. . . . Changing the way I act is the fruit of repentance. Technically, repentance is not behavioral change. Behavior change is the result of repentance. Repentance does not mean forsaking your sin. Repentance simply means to change your mind. John the Baptist said in Matthew 3:8 (NIV), ‘Produce fruit in keeping with repentance.’ In other words, ‘OK, you’ve changed your mind about God, about life, about sin, about yourself—now let’s see some fruit as a result of it.’ The deepest kind of preaching is preaching for repentance. Because life change happens only after you change somebody’s thinking, then preaching for repentance is preaching for life change. It is the deepest kind of preaching you can preach. Every week I try to communicate God’s Word in such a way that it changes the way people think. The word ‘repentance’ has taken on such a negative image, that I rarely use the word. But I preach it every single week. Repentance is the central message of the New Testament. What did the New Testament preachers preach on? John the Baptist: ‘Repent, for the Kingdom of Heaven is near.’ (Matt. 3:2 NIV) Jesus: ‘Repent and believe in the Gospel.’ (Mark 1:15 NIV) What did Jesus tell his disciples to preach? ‘So they went off and preached repentance.’ (Mark 6:12 NAB) What did Peter preach at Pentecost? ‘Repent and be baptized everyone of you.’ (Acts 2:38 NAB) What did John preach in Revelation? ‘Repent’” (Ministry Toolbox, Issue #246, 2/15/2006).

“The Bible clearly states ‘all have sinned.’ It is my nature to sin, and it is yours too. None of us is untainted. Because of sin, we’ve all hurt ourselves, we’ve all hurt other people, and others have hurt us. This means each of us needs repentance and recovery in order to live our lives the way God intended” (Ministry Toolbox, Issue #212, 6/22/2005). “Repentance—To repent is to change course, to reverse direction. Once confession has been made (and forgiveness received), repentance must be demonstrate. An unequivocal commitment to turn away from the offending behavior must be made. As with confession, the commitment to repent is most effective when made before other members representing the church” (Ministry Toolbox, Issue #209, 6/1/2005).

So, clearly, at least Rick Warren preaches repentance. You're right. Repentance IS important. In fact, YOU CAN'T FOLLOW Jesus Christ without repentance, which biblically means, a change of one's mind, heart, thoughts, and attitude about God and your own self in relation to God.

1.Does Rick Warren preach this gospel?

Yes.

I do not think so as every opportunity he has had publically in the last year or more, he neglects the gospel message. There is NO mention of the sinner in need of Jesus who shed his blood, bore our sins died on the CROSS in order that we might have eternal life.

Essentially, you are now deciding exactly how every person, including Warren, needs to respond in every public situation per your own personal subjective way that YOU would answer a question -- or in the way that YOU find acceptable for a Christian. Who made you that judge? Who have you that authority over other believers? Because Warren, or someone else, doesn't choose to answer using some quick, pithy, cliche blurb about "the blood," or answer in a way that YOU think is best, then you just relegate them to the heretic dumpster. That is not biblical.

2. WHY does Rick Warren recommend and use "breath prayers" are part of his PDL METHODOLOGY? (day 11)

Aaahhhhhh yes, this old one. Another little snippet that the heresy hunters have grabbed as a reason to light the torches.

This accusation initially came from p. 89 of The Purpose Driven Life, where Warren recommends short phrases speakable in a single breath. He calls them breath prayers. It's a way of describing the length of a prayer (i.e., speakable with one breath, about 1 sentence):

"You are with me."
"I receive your grace."
"You are my God"
(Warren, p. 89).

A person is supposed to think about what these words mean during the day. It is a way for them to be in constant prayer—little reminders that God is near, that he loves you, and that you are to live for Him. Another example of a breath prayer that Warren gives is on page 299: "Father, help me to understand what is keeping this person from knowing you."

This does not sound very New Age. It's not some bizarre, Eastern, satanic, occult thing.

These prayers, in fact, are textbook Christian prayers—short phrases to keep people’s minds fixed on Jesus in the middle of their busy lives. Nothing about them resembles "vain repetitions" (or mantras), which Warren actually condemns directly on page 103, saying, "Jesus called thoughtless worship 'vain repetitions.'"

Warren, of course, is referring to Matthew 6:7, where Christ denounced such false forms of worship as "much speaking" (or "babbling speech") uttered by Gentiles in a vain attempt to sway the will of their pagan gods. As The Wycliffe Bible Commentary explains, such prayers were an attempt "to overcome God’s unwillingness to respond by wearying him with words."

Warren, clearly, is not advocating anything connected to Eastern thought, mystical rites, mind-altering practices, Zen, or mantra-style chants when he talks about "breath prayers." One might just as well call them "one-sentence prayers," or "arrow prayers," or "quickie prayers." That's all they are.

But Warren's critics refuse to acknowledge this fact and keep repeating the accusation.

3. Why is Rick Warren an "advisor" and LISTED on Tony Blair's (ECUMENICAL) Faith Foundation?

Uhm......because he's an advisor? I'm listed in the advisory board of the atheist/agnostic SKEPTIC MAGAZINE. Do you know why? Because I was asked to be on that board after I shared my faith in Christ in a loving manner with a table full of atheists/agnostics. I love them. I care about them. I am friends with them. And I pray for them. And one day I hope, as I continue to be a good witness to them, some will come to know Jesus. Kind of cool, huh?

"Do you defend a Man and his "METHODOLOGIES" over the Word of God? Is this Man your authority and do the preachings and NETWORKS created by Men who are not based on the gospel things you defend? Do these liasons TRUMP God's Word?

NO. NO. NO.

Do you believe in a literal hell? A place for SINNERS who REJECT the gospel and do not come to repentant faith in Jesus as their Lord and Savior?

YES. YES. YES. MOST EMPHATICALLY, YES. And I have defended the doctrine in my books. I can give you references if you wish.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 2 Cor. 6:14

My friend in Christ, I believe you are misapplying this verse and taking it out of context. Do you, or do you not, want me to explain why I feel this way, based on sound, biblical interpretation?

Richard Abanes

[BornAgain123]

The problem with Warren is that he's NOT consistent. Pastors and other evangelical leaders have to be JUST THAT.

The same goes for Billy Graham-yeah, yeah...throughout his ministry, he's preached quite a bit how Jesus Christ is the only way to heaven, and that we have to repent. However-that doesn't take away the fact that he's sent out ecumenical and watered down messages on Robert Schuller, Larry King, McCall's magazine, etc, and not to mention too his comments how he and the Catholic Church "are like brothers", the Muslins "are his friends", etc.

It's no different from a faithful husband of 25 years who decides it's OK to have a 1 night fling with some other woman b/c that itself might not tarnish his "spotless" record.