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Thread: Prepare for "the end" or exercise Faith? *merged*

  1. #21
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    Well, I look at the parable of the 10 virgins.

    5 had prepared, and 5 didn't. The ones who prepared got in.

    I think that can also apply to some matters here on earth.

    For example, we are self employed. Our sales tax is due every 3 months. Why are we saving up for that sales tax? That could go into Bibles!

    Well, we have to assume that we will be here in 3 months. If we don't pay we will lose our business and suffer legal consequences.

    Our mortgage and other bills are due every month, and we're going to keep paying them.

    Same with property taxes - due in about 6 weeks. I could spend it all on cows for people in Africa, or I could save it up and assume we will need to pay it.

    I believe we have to balance prudence with preparation.

    Example: I have an expensive home repair that needs to be done. However, God has allowed us to work around it for the time being. I am trusting that either God will 1. provide means to pay for the repair when necessary 2. Allow us to keep working around the need or 3. Rapture us before we need to do it.

    I figure God has my back, so I don't worry about it. But in the meantime I am certain God wants me to take care of my responsibilities.

    We are all called to do different things. Right now, finances at home are pretty awful. I have prayed on getting another job; and I always get a NO. Doesn't seem logical, but it just makes us lean that more on Him.

    If I'm taking care of my current needs, and God raptures me tonight, great. If not, at least my home won't get foreclosed and we'll still have the business.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BarbT View Post
    jlutz, thank you for this thread. It's a welcome change from some of the endless survivalist-tinged discussions seen here in the past.

    For those who defend planning for disasters, having some provisions on hand in case of emergencies is always prudent. Several years ago I was very glad I had firewood, coffee, canned soup, and a battery-op radio on hand during a nasty storm & flooding that lasted 3 days.

    But I think the OP was making reference to Christians who are secretly worried a government breakdown will happen before the rapture. Others suspect they will have to go through the Tribulation and believe they can survive with careful planning.

    They may not admit it but when believers talk about stocking up on water purification pills, exotic camping gear, and food that will last for years it's a major hint they aren't relying on God.

    Yes, this is exactly what I was getting at. Although if you take this to it's logical conclusion, why shouldn't we trust God to provide in the smaller things as well? Is He incapable or otherwise occupied when we go through hurricanes or earthquakes??
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    Well, I look at the parable of the 10 virgins.

    5 had prepared, and 5 didn't. The ones who prepared got in.

    I think that can also apply to some matters here on earth.

    For example, we are self employed. Our sales tax is due every 3 months. Why are we saving up for that sales tax? That could go into Bibles!

    Well, we have to assume that we will be here in 3 months. If we don't pay we will lose our business and suffer legal consequences.

    Our mortgage and other bills are due every month, and we're going to keep paying them.

    Same with property taxes - due in about 6 weeks. I could spend it all on cows for people in Africa, or I could save it up and assume we will need to pay it.

    I believe we have to balance prudence with preparation.

    Example: I have an expensive home repair that needs to be done. However, God has allowed us to work around it for the time being. I am trusting that either God will 1. provide means to pay for the repair when necessary 2. Allow us to keep working around the need or 3. Rapture us before we need to do it.

    I figure God has my back, so I don't worry about it. But in the meantime I am certain God wants me to take care of my responsibilities.

    We are all called to do different things. Right now, finances at home are pretty awful. I have prayed on getting another job; and I always get a NO. Doesn't seem logical, but it just makes us lean that more on Him.

    If I'm taking care of my current needs, and God raptures me tonight, great. If not, at least my home won't get foreclosed and we'll still have the business.


    I think you may have missed the point. I wasn't talking about paying bills, although we should trust God for that too. I was talking abut hoarding supplies and the mentality that we should store up treasures here on earth.

    Also the parable of 10 virgins is about the second coming, and being ready for it. It has nothing to do with preparing or stocking up for bad things that may happen in the future.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  4. #24
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    HI Jlutz I can kinda get what Act5:41 is trying to say, the parable might be as you say and I'll take it true, but doesn't God tell us to keep on with our daily lives, not to worry about things of the world and such, that calling upon Him and He will supply all our needs. Ok that's good right? Some today are preparing for their reasons a possible doomsday situation, others know what God's word teaches us of prophecy today, not to worry, but go about our business as normal for believers. Half of the virgins readied them selves for the LORD, Half didn't, they relied on their own understanding and failed, basically, right, well I hope I got this right...
    Act5:41 I thought was giving examples according to his situation in life, whether it finanaces to accomplish our goals or our needs, but also what God puts in our hearts according to His Will. I think it a wonderful act of God's kindness to think of those who are going to be left behind, to bring them possible to homes and places of rations, safety or possibly an opportunity to bring those who are knowing of their situation, being left behind and bring the Word to them thru another situation...

    Ok,my 2 cents worth, minus 1 cent, ha...

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheprdboi View Post
    HI Jlutz I can kinda get what Act5:41 is trying to say, the parable might be as you say and I'll take it true, but doesn't God tell us to keep on with our daily lives, not to worry about things of the world and such, that calling upon Him and He will supply all our needs. Ok that's good right? Some today are preparing for their reasons a possible doomsday situation, others know what God's word teaches us of prophecy today, not to worry, but go about our business as normal for believers. Half of the virgins readied them selves for the LORD, Half didn't, they relied on their own understanding and failed, basically, right, well I hope I got this right...
    Act5:41 I thought was giving examples according to his situation in life, whether it finanaces to accomplish our goals or our needs, but also what God puts in our hearts according to His Will. I think it a wonderful act of God's kindness to think of those who are going to be left behind, to bring them possible to homes and places of rations, safety or possibly an opportunity to bring those who are knowing of their situation, being left behind and bring the Word to them thru another situation...

    Ok,my 2 cents worth, minus 1 cent, ha...

    I think were both on the same page.....I think
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  6. #26

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    If you read the question again in the OP, you'll see the way not to be. The problem becomes worse when "preppers" try to warn everyone to prep for survival. I think Jack was correct in strongly speaking against the questioner. Of course different ways of life lead to different ways of handling money and provisions. The Lord did go to extremes with the disciples to show us we rely on the Lord, to the extreme. He led Israel with nothing, only to provide something, so they would know He provides everything. And quite frankly, that is the way it truly is, the Lord sustains this whole creation. He fed 5000 and 4000 to show He is Lord of awesome.
    Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

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    I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

  7. #27
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    Glad you brought this up, Jlutz. I just this morning starting praying and seeking His will on whether to stock up on some food items. I have never had a desire to store goods for those left behind because of all the disasters and destruction that will be coming. I dont know that my items would survive. I dont have an answer yet so I will continue to pray. I think it is definitely a 'sign of the times' that I am even thinking along these lines.
    John 1:29 Behold the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world


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  8. #28
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    I don't think it is appropriate, ever, to engage in name calling: "hoarders".

    How will the tribulation saints EAT? Huh? After the Mark?

    They're going to be at the "hoarder" houses, stocking up, and PRAISING GOD SOMEONE THOUGHT OF THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

    Frankly, my level of supplies, and what I do with MY pay, are between me and God. I don't have to defend myself to anyone.

    For those who say "Trust in God entirely" I am reminded of Katrina - I am sure many trusted in God, and they ended up going hungry and thirsty for days, because they failed to plan in a logical manner.

    And yes, Barb says "Plan for disaster" - but how much is planning for disaster, and how much is "hoarding" - that is going to depend on the person you ask.

    The government, ideally, would like EVERYONE to have a 2 week supply of food and water. But that's not all you need.

    Take my medication. I am, literally, about 48 hours from complete insanity at any given moment.

    I could "trust God" and only have a few days of medication at a time, or I could plan, prudently, ahead of time. I could ask Doc for a 3 month refill, instead of a 1-month (it is a lot cheaper, too), and fill the prescription in advance of need. I do that.

    A year or two back, they had major shortages of my mood stabilizer. I had to wait over 2 weeks, every time I got a refill, for over a year. Everytime I went in they said they could give me a few days, if I needed (and charge $$), but the fact of the matter is they were out.

    If I hadn't planned ahead, I would have ended up in the mental hospital.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

    Matthew 22:9 NIV
    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


    I'm praying for you daily!
    I get my Bibles here

  9. #29
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    I can understand about being cautioned to have prepardness. Each day we try not to spend more than we need to try and keep some money in the bank for tomorrow; even though I believe that our money in the bank will probably disappear through some sort of corrupt and wicked act.

    However there is only so much you can do and we don't know what tomorrow may bring or what we may have to prepare for as we don't know the future. Who thought in Japan they would one day have a Tsunami that would leave them with the situation they have to face today? How do you prepare for the unknown?

    I woke up to a totally different day than I planned to have and there are now issues that have cropped up I didn't forsee. Not big things we cannot sort out but certainly not anticipated and our plans have now changed. God has given us the skills in the past to work through some of these issues we now face and some of it we have to give to the Lord that He will enable us to endure if worse case scenario happens.


    We can only have FAITH in Christ and lean on the Lord for the ability to cope with all of our tomorrows.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    I don't think it is appropriate, ever, to engage in name calling: "hoarders".

    How will the tribulation saints EAT? Huh? After the Mark?

    They're going to be at the "hoarder" houses, stocking up, and PRAISING GOD SOMEONE THOUGHT OF THEM AHEAD OF TIME.

    Frankly, my level of supplies, and what I do with MY pay, are between me and God. I don't have to defend myself to anyone.

    For those who say "Trust in God entirely" I am reminded of Katrina - I am sure many trusted in God, and they ended up going hungry and thirsty for days, because they failed to plan in a logical manner.

    And yes, Barb says "Plan for disaster" - but how much is planning for disaster, and how much is "hoarding" - that is going to depend on the person you ask.

    The government, ideally, would like EVERYONE to have a 2 week supply of food and water. But that's not all you need.

    Take my medication. I am, literally, about 48 hours from complete insanity at any given moment.

    I could "trust God" and only have a few days of medication at a time, or I could plan, prudently, ahead of time. I could ask Doc for a 3 month refill, instead of a 1-month (it is a lot cheaper, too), and fill the prescription in advance of need. I do that.

    A year or two back, they had major shortages of my mood stabilizer. I had to wait over 2 weeks, every time I got a refill, for over a year. Everytime I went in they said they could give me a few days, if I needed (and charge $$), but the fact of the matter is they were out.

    If I hadn't planned ahead, I would have ended up in the mental hospital.


    Do you really believe the tribe saints will be eating your stored food?? Think about it for a minute. After the first 4 judgments alone a quarter of the population is dead, not only that, think about the unbelievable destruction to homes and other buildings. Even if the food survives, there is a huge possibility that nobody could ever get to it, let alone find it. In addition to that, your talking about people eating your food after the mark, it would be virtually impossible for it to have survived that long, that's more than half way through. But even so, the OP isn't dealing with storing supplies for people after the rapture, which I believe is pointless, it's dealing with what we do with our resources now. You should do what God tells you to do, as should we all. Storing up treasure in heaven is what we all should do, storing treasure on earth is what the world teaches us to do.


    Calling someone a hoarder isn't name calling. It's describing an action or lifestyle. It's not a derogatory term.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  11. #31
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    Interesting tone, there, JL.

    To answer the easy one: I have shelf stable food that is good for many years. It's not a "hoard" by any means but it will sure fill a few bellies. We will just have to wait and see on the rest. I refuse to believe that God would be incapable of preserving it and leading people to it. That, however, is irrelevant because we know someone who is completely unsaved. He has a house key. We have given him permission to loot after the rapture.

    He is laughing now. Not for long. I hope he can renounce his sin and repent.

    I guess the objection I have: the original question. Prepare OR have faith. It presupposes the fact that one can, and should do both.

    " I have had an increasing burden to engage in some down and dirty, street evangelism." March 6, 2010

    Isaiah 6:8 I heard the voice of the Lord, saying: “ Whom shall I send, And who will go for Us?”

    Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

    Matthew 22:9 NIV
    'So go to the street corners and invite to the banquet anyone you find.’


    I'm praying for you daily!
    I get my Bibles here

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    Interesting tone, there, JL.

    To answer the easy one: I have shelf stable food that is good for many years. It's not a "hoard" by any means but it will sure fill a few bellies. We will just have to wait and see on the rest. I refuse to believe that God would be incapable of preserving it and leading people to it. That, however, is irrelevant because we know someone who is completely unsaved. He has a house key. We have given him permission to loot after the rapture.

    He is laughing now. Not for long. I hope he can renounce his sin and repent.

    I guess the objection I have: the original question. Prepare OR have faith. It presupposes the fact that one can, and should do both.
    I think you have taken this too personally and out of context from the OP.

    As far as the rest, you are right, God is capable of preserving your hoard for someone to eat, I just find it an unlikely scenario.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  13. #33
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    Here's something I've never understood about the "hoarders" - if it's God's will to conform us into the image of His Son - so it will be - and if part of that is to expand our faith in Him through our times of absolute need and extremity in life in all the ways that happens spiritually and physically...how is it they think they can get away from that lesson by pre-storing stuff? God can surely demolish all man's fleshly works and storage bins any way He wants and it's back to our nothingness and our reliance on Him to provide us with our bread - daily.

    We've had gorgeous testimonies of people here who have gone through it and though they might not have chosen it for themselves at the time, what they learned about God and His faithfulness was, no contest, more than well worth it. Christlikeness.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acts5:41 View Post
    I guess the objection I have: the original question. Prepare OR have faith. It presupposes the fact that one can, and should do both.
    I agree one should have both. Why not? If you see a storm coming you do what you can to "prep" & take cover. If people consider me to have a lack of faith because I "prep" then so be it. It just means I'm in a better position to deal with circumstances should disaster strike, and able to feed them since I've done my part.

    I will never understand the "God will provide" mentality that people have and these same folks do NOTHING........(not accusing anybody on this board of it either).

    God is my #1 protector and first line of defense--after that Mr. Smith & Wesson gets called
    John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.

    Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  15. #35
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    I don't think being prepared , at least for a short time, is a bad thing. Yes, God takes care of me, but when there is a tornado I get into my hall closet and pray. I don't just sit in my living room like it is no big deal. And as far as no one being able to eat my food I have in my pantry after the rapture because it might be several years before they can get to it--well, I imagine that with all the Christians gone there could be a shortage in the stores for a while and I have unsaved family that I think would come here to check on me and hopefully they can use my stuff, and rescue my dogs while they are at it! I hope they check out some of my Christian books and DVD's while they are here too. If my family can't get here then I have several unsaved neighbors that might get to it.
    Back to being prepared...I don't like it when people who are capable of working just wait on handouts. I work and save money so I can repair my car and pay my doctor etc. I am not planning on locking myself in my house and fighting it out if my neighborhood becomes like a warzone to guard my food. If it gets that bad they can just shoot me and have it. I don't care to be here if it gets like that. But there can be many things that can happen where I will be glad I have supplies for a few weeks. I just see it as being sensible. Like when God said if a man won't work he shouldn't eat. I think that means to me that yes, God provides for me, but I need to use my good sense too. Otherwise, everyone would just sit around and expect Him to just drop food out of the sky for them. Kind of like the occupy wall street crowd thinks it should be.

  16. #36
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    Maybe we don't see God provide for us in the midst of a storm because we don't let Him. how can He show you a miracle if you take it out of His hands?

    faith will sustain us in any situation, if we have it. Matt 6:25-34

    If you let Him, God will provide.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Maybe we don't see God provide for us in the midst of a storm because we don't let Him. how can He show you a miracle if you take it out of His hands?

    faith will sustain us in any situation, if we have it. Matt 6:25-34

    If you let Him, God will provide.
    I am more than willing to let God help! (no pride issues here) I've been so sick these days I can't get through the next 24 hours without God's help.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mitsy View Post
    I am more than willing to let God help! (no pride issues here) I've been so sick these days I can't get through the next 24 hours without God's help.
    I also don't want to suggest that God is a genie in a bottle. His will doesn't always match up with ours.

    One thing is certain, if we had greater faith, we would see greater things accomplished.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Maybe we don't see God provide for us in the midst of a storm because we don't let Him. how can He show you a miracle if you take it out of His hands?

    faith will sustain us in any situation, if we have it. Matt 6:25-34

    If you let Him, God will provide.
    Yeah I think we're on the same page, I too want to believe that our Heavenly Father has our backs, I think also HE certainly has shown in past, that HE uses people to prepare.. Look how He uses Joseph to prepare Egypt for the long drought, storing up grain and not only saving the Egyptians, but the Jews as well, ( of course that was the whole of God's plan) of course that was to teach the Jews a lesson and also make them even more dependent on Egypt, so God could rally them and deliver them also from slavery, Ok getting away from the point here, but it shows us, in my ity bity mind, that God delivers, He provides and sustains. Ok now do we know if Mana is once again going to fall from the skies and feed the people left behind? I kinda doubt it. Will he send birds in vast flocks to feed their need of meat, kinda doubt it, not that HE can't mind you...With the Restrainer Gone, the tribulation in force, the anti-christ showing his so called powers and works, only to lead the people further down the trail of distruction, but of course they will be so hungry and everything in shambles, Soylent Green mircle food bars, like Lamnes bread, where one bite can fill the stomach of an average man, ( I had to throw that in, ha ) but all kidding aside, the times will be so terrible, famine, fire consuming what is it 1/3 of lands I think, but there will be things that do survive, I think if it's God's plan, that those that hoard, not picking on anyone, but Why can't God use those people who put up rations, that might be used by others in those terrible trying time, who can say...But I will say, to get so carried away, not trusting God at all, fortifying underground bunkers and such, they will be found out, hopefully by needy, but I fear also, the powers that be, will conviscate any and all things of worth, maybe just to deprive the wandering unmarked ones...I lean on the practical, knowing that the restrainer is gone during such times and it will be every man, woman and child for themselves, but I can only imagine and I really don't want too either, it's such a terrible thing that is coming, lets work on helping others come to know the LORD and lets all catch the next rapture and be out of here.

  20. #40
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    I think someone should define what is being prepared for. I don't think any of the people here are stockpiling to ride out the apocalypse, just using common sense based on their needs (medical in particular) and the hazards of the area they inhabit.

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