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Thread: Will babies and children get stung by locusts in Revelation 9?

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    Default Will babies and children get stung by locusts in Revelation 9?

    There will be babies born during the Tribulation sometimes after the Rapture, locusts from the bottomless pit were commanded not to harm anything except those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. Will they harm the babies and children because they do not have the seal of God on their foreheads? Or maybe they will be protected by God? Kinda reminded me of the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah where all the babies and children perished so they were not protected by God, will that applied to children in Revelation 9 as well (except there will be no death for 5 months)? It's just so sad to think about it.

    Revelation 9:1-6

    1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
    "To ignore the Bible is to invite disaster"


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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorOfGod View Post
    There will be babies born during the Tribulation sometimes after the Rapture, locusts from the bottomless pit were commanded not to harm anything except those who do not have the seal of God in their foreheads. Will they harm the babies and children because they do not have the seal of God on their foreheads? Or maybe they will be protected by God? Kinda reminded me of the Flood and Sodom and Gomorrah where all the babies and children perished so they were not protected by God, will that applied to children in Revelation 9 as well (except there will be no death for 5 months)? It's just so sad to think about it.

    Revelation 9:1-6

    1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
    4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
    5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
    6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
    How is it known that the children, the wee infants were not protected? Is there an age of accountability? whether during the time of the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah or during the tribulation, I would believe that, certainly God in all His Greatness and LOVE, would HE subject innocent little ones to such wrath? I can't say, I haven't the knowledge of knowing this, but I would cerainly trust the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, that those little ones are all in His loving arms, not one be lost...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheprdboi View Post
    How is it known that the children, the wee infants were not protected? Is there an age of accountability? whether during the time of the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah or during the tribulation, I would believe that, certainly God in all His Greatness and LOVE, would HE subject innocent little ones to such wrath? I can't say, I haven't the knowledge of knowing this, but I would cerainly trust the LORD GOD ALMIGHTY, that those little ones are all in His loving arms, not one be lost...
    I do believe that all babies and children are going to heaven. I know without a doubt that babies and children who were perished in the Flood and Sodom and Gommorrah are with the Lord. Since they were perished during the Flood and Sodom and Gommorrah, I do wonder whether the children of the Tribulation will be harmed by the locusts or not, but I hope not, because they are so innocent. I know the Bible doesn't say anything about it because the locusts were commanded to harm those who have not the seal of God on their foreheads, that's what got me thinking about babies and children. I hope they will be protected by God from the locusts because they are innocent, like you mentioned an age of accountability which I believe.
    "To ignore the Bible is to invite disaster"


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    If they don't have the ability to understand their sin and the consequences of it, they cannot be held accountable for it. Our God is not only just, but loving and merciful
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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    What do we do with this verse than?
    Psa 58:3
    The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from [fn] birth.NASB

    And because of this verse, we at least have to consider that there are unclean children because neither parent is saved.
    1Cr 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through [fn] her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

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    I'm too tired to find it now but Paul told us there was a time as a child that he was not condemned, it wasn't until the law was applied to him that he was condemned by it. This suggest that there is a time where we are not held accountable for our sins.

    I can't comment on your verses above, but perhaps more context would make it more clear
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    I'm too tired to find it now but Paul told us there was a time as a child that he was not condemned, it wasn't until the law was applied to him that he was condemned by it. This suggest that there is a time where we are not held accountable for our sins.

    I can't comment on your verses above, but perhaps more context would make it more clear
    Do you mean Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."?
    "To ignore the Bible is to invite disaster"


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    Quote Originally Posted by kjlistrom View Post
    What do we do with this verse than?
    Psa 58:3
    The wicked are estranged from the womb; These who speak lies go astray from [fn] birth.NASB

    And because of this verse, we at least have to consider that there are unclean children because neither parent is saved.
    1Cr 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through [fn] her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorOfGod View Post
    Do you mean Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."?


    The Age Of Accountability

    Q. In your article about miscarriage, you wrote, “The Bible says life begins at conception (Psalm 139:13-14) and children under the age of understanding have eternal life (Romans 7:9).” I fail to understand how Romans 7:9 has anything to say about the age of children, or their understanding. Please explain.

    A. The general context of Romans 7 is Paul’s claim that rather than save him, the Law exposed the extent of man’s sinfulness, condemning him to death. Being a Jew who was obviously alive at the time, he wrote, “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died” (Romans 7:9). (The word for without also means “apart from”.) Since he was physically alive he had to have been referring to spiritual, or eternal life. In Judaism children are not accountable under the Law, therefore their sins are not counted against them. They have eternal life.

    When they reach the age of accountability, they become responsible for their sins. They acknowledge their accountability in a ceremony called bat mitzvah for girls, usually held at age 12, and bar mitzvah for boys age 13. This is what Paul meant by saying, “The commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” So as soon as Paul became old enough to be accountable for his sins, he was scheduled for death, already as good as dead.

    No official written references to the method for conducting bar or bat mitzvah ceremonies existed during Paul’s time. But the practice was obviously well known enough that Paul could expect his readers to understand what he was talking about. Since Paul was adamantly opposed to following tradition for its own sake, he must have known that belief in an age of accountability was legitimate from God’s perspective. http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...ccountability/

    While the Bible doesn't mention a specific age of accountability, and we can't say it's 12 and 13 for every child, the concept is clear here. There are more links at the link above for further reading.

    David also knew his dead young son was in Heaven with his God, "I will go to him but he will not return to me." David knew the heart of his God, he was called the "man after God's heart". He knew God is merciful and will not send those who cannot make a willful decision about salvation to Hell.

    So, kjlistrom, if David and Paul (when laying out the doctrine of salvation itself in Romans) said these things, they cannot contradict themselves in what you quoted - your findings must be read in context for their true meaning.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


    Jesus + something = nothing

    Jesus + nothing = Everything

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    Quote Originally Posted by WarriorOfGod View Post
    Do you mean Romans 7:9 "For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died."?
    yup, thats the one. Thanks for posting it
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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    but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads
    'only those men'...

    That phrase includes male and female adults, but not juveniles, IMO.
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post
    'only those men'...

    That phrase includes male and female adults, but not juveniles, IMO.
    You could be right and I was not even thinking of that....
    "To ignore the Bible is to invite disaster"


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    If the Tribulation is a time for God to turn His attention back to Israel, as in the Old Testament and to punish the world for what the evil they have done to His people and you say that God always saves the babies... then how do we reconcile these verses?

    1 Samuel 15: 1 Samuel said to Saul, “I am the one the LORD sent to anoint you king over his people Israel; so listen now to the message from the LORD. 2 This is what the LORD Almighty says: ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did to Israel when they waylaid them as they came up from Egypt. 3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’ ”
    Leviticus 26:21-22
    21 “If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey me, I will inflict disaster on you seven times over for your sins. 22 I will send wild animals that will rob you of your children and destroy your livestock. Your numbers will dwindle, and your roads will be deserted.
    Ezekiel 9:5-7
    5 I heard him speak to the six men. He said, "Follow him through the city. Do not show any pity or concern. 6 Kill old men and women, young men and women, and children. But do not touch anyone who has the mark. Start at my temple." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.

    7 Then he said to the men, "Make the temple 'unclean.' Fill the courtyards with dead bodies. Go!" So they went out and started killing people all through the city.
    And this one, we KNOW is in the Tribulation, because of the first verse, where it says that the stars of the heaven and the constellations shall not give their light...

    Isaiah 13:10-18...10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to shine.

    11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity: and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make people scarcer than gold—more rare than the fine gold of Ophir.13 For I will shake the heavens. The earth will move from its place when the Lord of Heaven’s Armies displays his wrath in the day of his fierce anger.” 14 Everyone in Babylon will run about like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd. They will try to find their own people and flee to their own land.
    15 Anyone who is captured will be cut down— run through with a sword.
    16 Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped. 17 “Look, I will stir up the Medes against Babylon. They cannot be tempted by silver or bribed with gold. 18 The attacking armies will shoot down the young men with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for children.
    Ezekiel5:8-10...8 Therefore, I myself, the Sovereign Lord, am now your enemy. I will punish you publicly while all the nations watch. 9 Because of your detestable idols, I will punish you like I have never punished anyone before or ever will again. 10 Parents will eat their own children, and children will eat their parents. I will punish you and scatter to the winds the few who survive.
    God's grace is for the Church, am I correct? Then He will deal with Israel in the same manner as He did in the first 69 weeks of Daniel's prophecy.
    "We always thank God for all of you, mentioning you in our prayers. We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 2,3

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    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post


    The Age Of Accountability

    Q. In your article about miscarriage, you wrote, “The Bible says life begins at conception (Psalm 139:13-14) and children under the age of understanding have eternal life (Romans 7:9).” I fail to understand how Romans 7:9 has anything to say about the age of children, or their understanding. Please explain.

    A. The general context of Romans 7 is Paul’s claim that rather than save him, the Law exposed the extent of man’s sinfulness, condemning him to death. Being a Jew who was obviously alive at the time, he wrote, “For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died” (Romans 7:9). (The word for without also means “apart from”.) Since he was physically alive he had to have been referring to spiritual, or eternal life. In Judaism children are not accountable under the Law, therefore their sins are not counted against them. They have eternal life.

    When they reach the age of accountability, they become responsible for their sins. They acknowledge their accountability in a ceremony called bat mitzvah for girls, usually held at age 12, and bar mitzvah for boys age 13. This is what Paul meant by saying, “The commandment came, sin revived, and I died.” So as soon as Paul became old enough to be accountable for his sins, he was scheduled for death, already as good as dead.

    No official written references to the method for conducting bar or bat mitzvah ceremonies existed during Paul’s time. But the practice was obviously well known enough that Paul could expect his readers to understand what he was talking about. Since Paul was adamantly opposed to following tradition for its own sake, he must have known that belief in an age of accountability was legitimate from God’s perspective. http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...ccountability/

    While the Bible doesn't mention a specific age of accountability, and we can't say it's 12 and 13 for every child, the concept is clear here. There are more links at the link above for further reading.

    David also knew his dead young son was in Heaven with his God, "I will go to him but he will not return to me." David knew the heart of his God, he was called the "man after God's heart". He knew God is merciful and will not send those who cannot make a willful decision about salvation to Hell.

    So, kjlistrom, if David and Paul (when laying out the doctrine of salvation itself in Romans) said these things, they cannot contradict themselves in what you quoted - your findings must be read in context for their true meaning.
    Yes I agree that David knew that his son was in Heaven and that he would see him again. As the verse says, because of the believing parent/David his son was Holy.

    As for the Jews, I love them dearly and I pray for them a lot, but with all do respect to them as the apple of God's eye, they have so many things wrong and twisted for now. They will at one time have the full consel of God in the future. I'm not saying that they are wrong in everything, but they do have a track record.

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    Children going to heaven has nothing to do with the parent believing. It's about whether or not God hold them mentally accountable and thus responsible for their own sin. Parents have nothing to do with it.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Children going to heaven has nothing to do with the parent believing. It's about whether or not God hold them mentally accountable and thus responsible for their own sin. Parents have nothing to do with it.
    You maybe right, parents may not play any part in their own children's salvation as you say.
    I can not prove what I am about to say but, than again, the Bible does not say that all children have a free pass either so.
    IMO, I believe that parents will be held more accountable than some may think about the children that God entrusted them with. I believe that children are in their parents care till they leave to start their own families because of this verse.

    Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

    I'm not saying that a 40+ year old, still living with mom and dad, will not be held accountable for his own sin, I'm thinking about children like Job's.

    Job 1:4 ¶ And his sons went and feasted [in their] houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
    Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings [according] to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

    I believe that Job's children were still under his care and he would be held accountable for what God had entrusted to him and that's why he prayed continually for their forgiveness.

    With that said, when both parents have rejected what Christ had done on the cross for them and curse God instead of praying for what God has entrusted to them, I believe that one day there will be much gnawing and gnashing of teeth.

    Again I maybe wrong and you maybe right, but I just have never read in the Bible that it is age + Christ = salvation for some.

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    Well, all kids on earth will be gone at Rapture, so the first child would be born 9 months into the Tribulation; therefore, if the pregnant mother survives the first judgements...first she has to just stay alive during the worst time the earth has ever had or ever will have.

    On the other hand, I kinda hope God closes up wombs for that 7 years. Then there would be no problem. The death rate for potential moms and dads for that matter, will be so high that kids being born during the tribulation will be scarce as hens teeth, and there will not be much of a problem, IMO.

    I just can't imagine how sad a world will be with no little ones, and post Rapture that is what we will have.
    I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Children going to heaven has nothing to do with the parent believing. It's about whether or not God hold them mentally accountable and thus responsible for their own sin. Parents have nothing to do with it.
    I am not inferring that the children will not go to Heaven, but I am saying that Scriptures say that those same babies and children during the Tribulation will come to a terrible and violent end... not because I say so, but because the Lord Himself has decreed it to be so and we can see that by the following verse 13, where God says: For I will shake the heavens. The earth will move from its place when the Lord of Heaven's Armies displays his wrath in the day of his fierce anger. and then in verse 16, we see where the children will be dashed to death before their very eyes. It will be a very sad time in the world, thank God, it will be cut short or no one would survive.

    Isaiah 13:10-18...10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light; the sun shall be darkened in its going forth, and the moon shall not cause its light to shine.

    11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity: and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. 12 I will make people scarcer than gold—more rare than the fine gold of Ophir.13 For I will shake the heavens. The earth will move from its place when the Lord of Heaven’s Armies displays his wrath in the day of his fierce anger.” 14 Everyone in Babylon will run about like a hunted gazelle, like sheep without a shepherd. They will try to find their own people and flee to their own land.
    15 Anyone who is captured will be cut down— run through with a sword.
    16 Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped.
    17 “Look, I will stir up the Medes against Babylon. They cannot be tempted by silver or bribed with gold. 18 The attacking armies will shoot down the young men with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for children.”
    "We always thank God for all of you, mentioning you in our prayers. We continually remember before our God and Father your work produced by faith, your labor prompted by love, and your endurance inspired by hope in our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 2,3

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    I think everybody's fair game except the 144,000. Even tribulation saints seem to be included given the literal interpretation of that verse.
    "For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10

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    Can you imagine all schools in the world emptied on the same day? That idea has always facinated me.
    I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. John 14:18

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    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post

    So, kjlistrom, if David and Paul (when laying out the doctrine of salvation itself in Romans) said these things, they cannot contradict themselves in what you quoted - your findings must be read in context for their true meaning. [/COLOR]
    I am trying to make sense of all this, and not trying to be hard headed. I love the truth, so want to know it.

    But it is Paul that tells us that there are clean and unclean children.

    1Cr 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through [fn] her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

    It could be that what is being said here is about not salvation, but being in the circle of God's blessing because of the one believer in the household, which would mean that all kids would have the free pass and would be included in the Rapture. All children brought up in Islamic, atheistic, Hindu, Buddist, and every world religion would still have a free pass, . I know that some children are taught at a very early age to hate God and His chosen people, would the 12-13 age rule still aply?
    I pray that all children have that free pass and it makes my heart sick to think that at a early age they curse God because of their parent's teaching to do so.
    I believe that parents will be held accountable because God has entrusted children to us and at this point, I believe it falls on parents' shoulders.

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