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Thread: If your church is going to be closed on Christmas Sunday . Then you dont get to complain....

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalvert View Post
    Let's take a look at some of the churches that are closing on Sunday due to Christmas, Mars Hill, willow creek, a lot of the big mega churches are closing... and let's face it. the majority of these church are seeker sensitive one's which many are talked about in this forum. having little to no true gospel at all. It;s all about tickling the ears. in that... Yes they are cowards! Cowards for not speaking the truth.

    Perhaps I'm a bit hasty in my judgment but I've been in the ministry for a long time and in My experience... it's seems that people are always looking for a reason to NOT come to church. Either they are too busy with other priorities or they are just plain lazy. I feel that closing on a Sunday is just giving them yet another reason to not attend.
    Well, we already know that the above named churches are not sound. So no one, least of all, us here, expect them to do anything right. And they are a lot of things, false prophets, liars, charlatans and self serving egotistical false teachers.

    But that does not make other churches that close the same thing. Not even a little bit. We can judge Mars Hill and all on their false teachings, all their bad fruit. But closing on Sunday is not a capital offense to God. As suggested here.

    I wasn't defending these places. And I never said I was. But I know this, it is not their closing on Sunday that makes me know their fruit is bad, it is their false teachings with a worldly agenda and false teachings. Not being closed on Sunday for Christmas is not an indication of a cowardly church. And I was pretty clear that I was talking about closing on Sunday, or not doing Services at all on Sunday.
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shonsu View Post
    Amen! Our church is having service but I certainly would not look down on any church who isn't.
    We're having one combined service on Christmas morning.

    "But I say unto you, that one greater than the temple is here".
    Matthew 12:6 (ASV)

    "...and behold, a greater than Jonah is here."
    Luke 11:32 (ASV)

    "...and behold, a greater than Solomon is here."
    Luke 11:31 (ASV)

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalvert View Post
    The reasons Sunday is referred to "The Lords day" is because it was on a Sunday that Christ rose from the dead. In revelation John was taken to heaven on 'The Lord's day" http://www.gotquestions.org/worship-on-Sunday.html

    As for going to Church on a Sat....I'm not saying that we have to put one day over the other. the point is this... If a church is closing (not having service) just because it's a holiday. Easter, mother's day, Christmas or Whatever day you want to close on... I think is a poor excuse to not have church.

    I understand that people have 'Stuff" to do in life. if a person does not go to church or they miss a day I would not call them a coward, a looser, or a bad Christian. My focus in on the main pastor, Why would you Not want to have a service on a Christmas Day?
    Actually, a poor excuse for a church is one that does not feed the flock on a regular basis. and equip the members to go out and share Jesus to the world. Which most churches do not do (equip their members to actively seek the lost).

    And I still did not see, in your link, a biblically mandated "Lord's day" for fellowshipping. I already know why the church gathers on Sunday, as a rule. I have been a born again Christian for a few years now.

    But my problem is that the sweeping condemnation of churches that do may not be open for Sunday worship. Mentioning that Mars Hill and all their buddies, being cowards and unbiblical is a given, that is like saying mud is nasty for coffee. It really does not need pointed out.

    Now my church will be open, as far as I know, for Christmas, but I would not think they were all cowards if it was not. My ability to remember the birth of Jesus, worship Jesus as Savior is not dependent upon being in a building. I love fellowshipping with other Believers, but I will not condemn them if they stay home Sunday morning and call them cowards and part of the false prophet ring of Mars Hill, Rick warren and all.
    Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)

    11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
    You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
    12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
    O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.



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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jael View Post
    Yeah...it just feels really weird to essentially tell the Lord "Sorry, we're too busy celebrating your birthday to worship you today." Christmas is about honoring Him and we come together in worship to honor Him...why not come together on Christmas?
    I agree Jael.


    the fact Noble and Furtick are doing this shows how little for JESUS they care about.

    their seeker sermons and hatred towards discerning christians were bad enough, but to say: I dont feel like celebrating JESUS birth at church cause Christmas is on a Sunday this year speaks volumes about them
    For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also (Matthew 6:21)

  5. #25
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    To me raptureready_7 it is not the person who does not go to church on Christmas day that is necessarily luke warm but the church that chooses to close on Christmas day most likely is a dead or apostate. That would be my conclusion.
    Jesus is coming now at "Any Moment"! Are you ready?

    Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

    Praying for the Peace of Jerusalem. Amen.

  6. #26
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    I would think churches would want to be open on Christmas, for the same reason as Easter Sunday; people who never come to church may be more curious about the LORD and perhaps likely to come on those particular days.
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
    For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does He withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

    Psalm 84:10-11

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnceWasLost View Post
    The reason that we would never consider closing on any Sunday, let alone Christmas Day, is precisely because people show up on that day in larger numbers than any other day. It is a great day to be sure The Gospel is accurately presented to people unaccustomed to hearing it.
    Our pastor was considering not having service on Christmas, but thankfully, for this same reason opted to still have service. We are also having Christmas Eve service. I'm glad we're having both, and I'm hoping to go to both. I've never been to a Christmas service before, and I'm eager to go.

  8. #28
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    When our church was w/o a pastor, we had an interim pastor, who drove to our church from Memphis (a 2 hour trip, one way) every Sunday, we closed the church just that one Sunday (I believe that was in 2005). We did that so that this interim pastor could spend Christmas with his family. When we finally got a full-time pastor, the church has NEVER been closed for Sunday morning services. I doubt seriously that we will be closed on Christmas day...unless the Rapture happens before that.

    Easter is always on a Sunday...if the church is open for Easter services, what would make Christmas "Sunday" any different? Most churches get the "two day a year" pew warmers to fill the pews on those two holidays.

  9. #29
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    I write the following with no disrespect to anyone.

    Imho, the decision to have or not have church on Christmas Day is up to and the business of that church body and no one else.

    It is between that body and the Lord. It is not my business.

    The birth, death, burial and Resurrection of our Lord should be honored and celebrated everyday in our heart and our actions to and with others.

    By all means anyone is free to disagree and have your own opinion.

    My respects and Merry Christmas to all.
    Jhn 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM."





    I Stand With Israel Sha'alu Shalom Yerushalyim

  10. #30
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    This has gotten pretty heated, but I'll put my 2 cents in.

    My family goes to church EVERY Sunday. We have always attended Christmas Eve services as well.
    However, we will not be attending our church's morning service that day. Christmas Day for us always begins with a recounting of the birth of Jesus, and family prayer, and since we're a musical family, we sing or listen to carols all day. This is very much a stay-at-home day in which we are just with each other. In the evening, we have had extended family over or go to their house, but it's mostly just us during the day.

    I really cherish this quiet time with just my husband and children. We run around so much the rest of the year. My husband plays piano in the worship team. I usually run media. He runs the special occasion choir. My kids help out in various things. Easter Sunday is a very busy day for us with all the special stuff we're involved in. So whether Christmas falls on a Sunday or a Monday, I want to be home with my family and our traditions. Christmas Eve is church and carols and prayers of praise and thanks. The next morning is worshipping at home while we rest.

  11. #31
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    Our normal Sunday service is cancelled in favor of a Saturday evening candlelight communion service. Not really sure what the commotion is about.

  12. #32
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    Our church is having a service on Sunday, albeit an abbreviated one. We will have a time of praise and worship, a short message, and a time of communion. Our worship leader drives almost 2 hours each Sunday, and he and his wife are expecting their first child, so they most likely will not be there, but another worship leader will serve in his place. Our pastor had considered not having services on Christmas Day because many will be out of town visiting family that weekend, but he said he just didn't feel justified in cancelling service. I see both sides of it, because I have a daughter who loves Christmas Day because we are all together and just relax in each others' company the entire day, but I also will be attending the abbreviated service because I coordinate the media team. We won't be having Sunday School for the children that day, so if she wants to stay at home, my husband has said he would stay with her.

    ADDITION: I wouldn't call cancelling a service on Christmas cowardly...time with family is very important, and pastors may be cancelling services so that families won't have to feel guilty about choosing to spend family time over going to church.
    Last edited by tlroffice; December 12th, 2011 at 09:58 AM. Reason: additional thoughts

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_andy View Post
    I write the following with no disrespect to anyone.

    Imho, the decision to have or not have church on Christmas Day is up to and the business of that church body and no one else.

    It is between that body and the Lord. It is not my business.

    The birth, death, burial and Resurrection of our Lord should be honored and celebrated everyday in our heart and our actions to and with others.

    By all means anyone is free to disagree and have your own opinion.

    My respects and Merry Christmas to all.


  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_andy View Post
    I write the following with no disrespect to anyone.

    Imho, the decision to have or not have church on Christmas Day is up to and the business of that church body and no one else.

    It is between that body and the Lord. It is not my business.

    The birth, death, burial and Resurrection of our Lord should be honored and celebrated everyday in our heart and our actions to and with others.

    By all means anyone is free to disagree and have your own opinion.

    My respects and Merry Christmas to all.
    ya seriously, why is this even something were discussing?
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  15. #35
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    To be honest, I have often been disappointed with Christmas Day services. They tend to have been very short meetings and very light on spiritual food. Children showing off their presents, a couple of carols and a very short and light sermon that sort of thing

    I find it quite hard to get to church at Christmas as well not having my own transport and there is no public transport where I live.

    I think sometimes pastors like the day off as well. Another problem is with all the excitement of the day, many families find it very difficult to be sufficiently organised to get to church on Christmas Day.

    Personally, i think Christmas is the worst time of the year for evangelism. Christmas is so commercialised and hectic that the message of Christmas is buried and confused

  16. #36
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    Personally, i think Christmas is the worst time of the year for evangelism. Christmas is so commercialised and hectic that the message of Christmas is buried and confused
    I would disagree with that statement. I think it is the one time of year when people are actually more open to the message. It is a time you can invite people to come to church. If you have a good church, that message will get out. That message will also come through you as become a disciple of Jesus and minister to your friends and neighbors about what Christmas really is about.

    Yes, Christmas has become commercialized, but whose fault is that? You and me, that's who. We all get sucked into the trap of the commercial aspect and the "busyiness" of the season. The solution is to re-focus and tells others what the season is really about and why Jesus is so important in our individual lives. He came to save us from sin and death and our own selves and way of doing things and give us eternal life. We give gifts to each other and He has given us the ultimate gift of life.

    This should be one of the best evangelistic seasons of the year. Our church services are packed out with chairs going down the aisle, and that adding another service on top of the five we already have (three at main campus and one each in the two sattelite campuses at each end of town).

    God bless.

    -Speedy

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    ya seriously, why is this even something were discussing?
    Because it is a worthy topic?
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
    For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does He withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

    Psalm 84:10-11

  18. #38
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    In 1659, a law was passed by the General Court of Massachusetts Bay Colony requiring a five-shilling fine from anyone caught "observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way." Christmas Day was deemed by the Puritans to be a time of seasonal excess with no Biblical authority. The law was repealed in 1681 along with several other laws, under pressure from the government in London. It was not until 1856 that Christmas Day became a state holiday in Massachusetts. For two centuries preceding that date, the observance of Christmas — or lack thereof — represented a cultural tug of war between Puritan ideals and British tradition.

    Like other Massachusetts Puritans, the Reverend Increase Mather considered Christmas a "profane and superstitious custom." The Boston minister wrote in 1687 that December 25th was observed as the birth date of Christ not because "Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens Saturnalia was at the time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian [ones]." He was correct.

    The English men and women who came to New England in the 1600s were familiar with Christmas as it was celebrated in Britain. The Christmas season began in late November and continued well into the New Year, coinciding with a natural break in the agricultural cycle. It was a time of feasting, excessive alcohol consumption, general merry-making, and "misrule" (the turning of social conventions upside down). Men of means were expected to open their homes and furnish those less well off with food and drink.

    Massachusetts Puritans sought to put an end to the celebration of Christmas with all of its excesses. Almanacs published in the Bay Colony did not mark December 25th as Christmas Day.

    While the Puritans succeeded in suppressing most holiday revelry, they could not quell it completely. The authorities condemned fishermen and other residents of the region's coastal villages as irreligious; they behaved in unacceptable ways, from heavy drinking to "keeping Christmas."

    One Christmas conflict occurred in Salem in 1679. On the night of December 25th, four men entered the home of farmer John Rowden and helped themselves to seats by the fire, began to sing, and then demanded cups of the Rowdens' pear wine. After being repeatedly refused, they pretended to leave the house, only to return and demand money. Turned out again, they continued their harassment, throwing "stones, bones, and other things" at the house and stealing several pecks of apples. These men were re-enacting the time-honored English tradition of "wassailing," where lower-class revelers entered the homes of their social superiors at Christmas time. In exchange for singing and mumming, the uninvited guests generally received gifts of food, drink, or money. In England, the tradition had long fostered good will between people who occupied different rungs of the social ladder, but as the events in Salem indicate, this was not so in Puritan New England.

    Under pressure from the British government, Massachusetts repealed the law against Christmas festivities in 1681. The holiday was widely, and sometimes wildly, celebrated from 1687 to 1689, the period after Massachusetts Bay lost its charter and was governed by an English official. When the colony regained its charter in 1689, public expressions of Christmas cheer ended, at least for the time being.

    The observance of Christmas did not disappear altogether, and soon a movement was afoot to purify and temper the custom, rather than stamp it out altogether. By the 1750s the most common New England hymnal, the Bay Psalm Book, included Christmas hymns, and by 1760 most almanacs named December 25th Christmas Day. Christmas music by New England composers appeared in song books published in the second half of the eighteenth century; the Worcester Collection of Sacred Harmony, published by Isaiah Thomas in 1786, even included Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus."

    ...in 1659, a law was passed by the General Court of Massachusetts Bay Colony requiring a five-shilling fine from anyone caught "observing any such day as Christmas or the like, either by forbearing of labor, feasting, or any other way." Christmas Day was deemed by the Puritans to be a time of seasonal excess with no Biblical authority. The law was repealed in 1681 along with several other laws, under pressure from the government in London. It was not until 1856 that Christmas Day became a state holiday in Massachusetts. For two centuries preceding that date, the observance of Christmas — or lack thereof — represented a cultural tug of war between Puritan ideals and British tradition.

    Like other Massachusetts Puritans, the Reverend Increase Mather considered Christmas a "profane and superstitious custom." The Boston minister wrote in 1687 that December 25th was observed as the birth date of Christ not because "Christ was born in that Month, but because the Heathens Saturnalia was at the time kept in Rome, and they were willing to have those Pagan Holidays metamorphosed into Christian [ones]." He was correct.

    The English men and women who came to New England in the 1600s were familiar with Christmas as it was celebrated in Britain. The Christmas season began in late November and continued well into the New Year, coinciding with a natural break in the agricultural cycle. It was a time of feasting, excessive alcohol consumption, general merry-making, and "misrule" (the turning of social conventions upside down). Men of means were expected to open their homes and furnish those less well off with food and drink.

    Massachusetts Puritans sought to put an end to the celebration of Christmas with all of its excesses. Almanacs published in the Bay Colony did not mark December 25th as Christmas Day.

    While the Puritans succeeded in suppressing most holiday revelry, they could not quell it completely. The authorities condemned fishermen and other residents of the region's coastal villages as irreligious; they behaved in unacceptable ways, from heavy drinking to "keeping Christmas."

    One Christmas conflict occurred in Salem in 1679. On the night of December 25th, four men entered the home of farmer John Rowden and helped themselves to seats by the fire, began to sing, and then demanded cups of the Rowdens' pear wine. After being repeatedly refused, they pretended to leave the house, only to return and demand money. Turned out again, they continued their harassment, throwing "stones, bones, and other things" at the house and stealing several pecks of apples. These men were re-enacting the time-honored English tradition of "wassailing," where lower-class revelers entered the homes of their social superiors at Christmas time. In exchange for singing and mumming, the uninvited guests generally received gifts of food, drink, or money. In England, the tradition had long fostered good will between people who occupied different rungs of the social ladder, but as the events in Salem indicate, this was not so in Puritan New England.

    Under pressure from the British government, Massachusetts repealed the law against Christmas festivities in 1681. The holiday was widely, and sometimes wildly, celebrated from 1687 to 1689, the period after Massachusetts Bay lost its charter and was governed by an English official. When the colony regained its charter in 1689, public expressions of Christmas cheer ended, at least for the time being.

    The observance of Christmas did not disappear altogether, and soon a movement was afoot to purify and temper the custom, rather than stamp it out altogether. By the 1750s the most common New England hymnal, the Bay Psalm Book, included Christmas hymns, and by 1760 most almanacs named December 25th Christmas Day. Christmas music by New England composers appeared in song books published in the second half of the eighteenth century; the Worcester Collection of Sacred Harmony, published by Isaiah Thomas in 1786, even included Handel's "Hallelujah Chorus."

    In the early nineteenth century, fear that excessive drinking, aggressive begging, and riotous processions associated with Christmas posed a threat to public order moved middle- and upper-class Americans to re-make Christmas as a family holiday. The social and business elite collaborated with the press to reshape Christmas into a well-regulated domestic celebration. The chief beneficiaries of this kind of Christmas were children.

    The new, child-centered Christmas was idealized by Clement Clarke Moore's 1822 poem, "A Visit from St. Nicholas," which introduced Santa Claus into American lore. A few years later, Stockbridge writer Catharine Maria Sedgwick published a story that created an indelible image of wide-eyed children discovering a Christmas tree surrounded by gifts.

    The gift-bearing St. Nick and present-laden fir tree coincided with a consumer revolution in nineteenth-century New England. Merchants and shopkeepers capitalized on the new materialism by advertising "thoughtful gifts" for children and others within the domestic circle.

    By the 1840s many states began to make Christmas a legal holiday. An 1856 Massachusetts law accorded this status to Christmas, Washington's Birthday, and July 4th. The success of this measure was due to the growing number of Irish Catholics in the electorate. Public offices were also to be closed on these days, and it was expected that businesses would follow suit. In time they did. Early in the twenty-first century, December 25th remains one of the few days that the nation's economic engine is still.

    Sources

    The Battle for Christmas, by Stephen Nissenbaum (Alfred A. Knopf, 1996).

    Testimony against Several Profane and Superstitious Customs, Now Practiced by Some in New-England, by Increase Mather (1687).



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