What exactly do Catholics believe?...

[JMSA540]

First and foremost I want to say that I'm sorry that this may be posted in the wrong section on this forum... (Moderators please move to the correct place if needed.)

I get on here every now and then, and don't post that much... But I would like to get an answer from my fellow Christians...

I really don't know how to ask this question so I'm just going to be straight-up about it...

Catholics... What do they believe exactly? I'm just somewhat confused on what they believe... Do they pray to Mary to get through to Jesus Christ? And also doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible (Revelations) that the Vatican (Catholic Church?) will become corrupt to a degree? Do they believe in the Salvation Prayer? I would like some comparisons to the Christian faith.

Lastly, I'm sorry if I seem to be ignorant of these questions/matter. But the only stupid question there is; is the one that was never asked.

~Jon.

[Buzzardhut]

http://www.buzzardhut.net/Catho/

[Trance]

I have a few Catholic relatives and an Uncle even acknowledges that what they teach is contrary to the Bible, but can't make himself leave the church as it was his 'tradition' (His Grandfather was catholic, his father was catholic, ect)

But in a nut-shell and based on my own research here is what I have learned

They believe The Pope is God in flesh (when he is introduced his is always called his holiness... and I use lowercase letters, because only God is Holy)

They believe Mary is holy and equal to God

They believe a mortal priest can forgive sin (therefore completely negating Christ's Sacrifice on The Cross)

They believe just by being Catholic, they are guarenteed to get into Heaven

They believe that dead saints (and not a Living God) intercedes on their behalf

They believe that deeds and work-of-hand, and not faith, is what grants you favor with God

[IMSAVED]

A lady I used to work with once who was Catholic told me "All those nice things you do will work well for you and get you into Heaven".

[Trance]

A lady I used to work with once who was Catholic told me "All those nice things you do will work well for you and get you into Heaven".

Sadly I am not surprised by that response. They believe the more good deeds you do, the further up the line you go

[Chris]

This might help:

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0071/0071_01.asp

[Verisimilitude]

And also doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible (Revelations) that the Vatican (Catholic Church?) will become corrupt to a degree?

Many good and true responses so far on this thread. As for the rcc becoming corrupt, they always have been corrupt. Some of their many false doctrines have included that Jesus' saving work on the cross is not enough for salvation and that one must endure some unknown time in purgatory, suffering, in order to completely purge themselves of their sins. A nun once told me that one minute in purgatory was the equivalent of 10,000 years in hell.

Those in purgatory can spend less time if someone on earth buys them indulgences. Saints, roman catholic ones of course, are believed to have so many good works that they actually have extra. By paying an indulgence one is buying some of the extra good works of the saints and applying them to the suffering soul in purgatory in order to get them out of purgatory early. It seems that in the roman catholic faith, God can be bribed.

The Bible allows for divorce in the case of adultery. The rcc does not allow for divorce, but for a price, they will anull a marriage just as if it never had existed. I've always wondered if they still consider any children of that marriage to be legitimate if the marriage never existed. I'm sure they have a fancy song and dance to get around that.

Next, although it seems this has recently changed, there is/was a place called limbo. Limbo is where the souls of unbaptized children/infants go if they die. Because they were never baptized, they cannot enter heaven but they don't deserve hell, so they are stuck in limbo for eternity. They're happy, but they can never attain heaven.

Finally, the reason one goes through Mary for salvation is because Jesus does whatever she asks Him to do. He cannot turn her down, therefore by asking her for salvation and showing her forms of worship such as adoration, bowing before her statues, bringing her flowers, one gains her favor. She then goes to Jesus, Who happens to be very, very angry with all of us sinners, and asks Him to pardon us. He is very angry with us because He died for us and we, ingrates all, still go out and sin, making his sacrifice useless.

As any logical person can see, the rcc has many differences from what the Bible teaches. It is a corrupt religion from it's very inception, Jesus NEVER established an holy roman catholic church. He fulfilled the laws of Judaism! He was a practicing Jew and believed and taught the scriptures, nothing else. The rcc very seldom holds to scripture. It denies the finished work of Jesus on the cross, and that is the worst of it's myriad of heresies. It is mentioned in Revelation IMO as the "woman who rides the beast". The Lord is going to take it down and He has a commandment for any true believer who may identify themselves as members of this evil, perverse religion, " Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues".

[HumbleBerean]

Finally, the reason one goes through Mary for salvation is because Jesus does whatever she asks Him to do. He cannot turn her down, therefore by asking her for salvation and showing her forms of worship such as adoration, bowing before her statues, bringing her flowers, one gains her favor. She then goes to Jesus, Who happens to be very, very angry with all of us sinners, and asks Him to pardon us. He is very angry with us because He died for us and we, ingrates all, still go out and sin, making his sacrifice useless.

You just described my childhood. Jesus was always angry with me. I lived in fear of making even the tiniest mistake and make Him even more mad. Thanks for the flashbacks

Roman Catholics believe that Jesus death by itself without any faith or belief in it opened the door to the grace of God. And by taking part in the sacraments - baptism, the mass, confession, confirmation, last rites etc - you are adding grace to yourself. So that by taking part in the sacraments and your good works and being RC you get to heaven. Though if you really follow what their official doctrine says, the best you could hope for is purgatory where your sins are burned off over thousands if not hundreds of thousands of years. Even the popes were believed to go to purgatory.

Someone mentioned indulgences, which is another abomination. You pay a monetary price to the RCC to get rid of your sin. The worse the sin, the higher the price. You can even pay ahead of time and build some credit and then you can go sin like there is no tomorrow. Indulgences were the final straw that brought about the Reformation.

I believe Limbo was abolished by the "infallible, whatever he says goes even if it trumps the bible" pope a few years ago

[Mom2ten]

Thank You Jesus for delivering me out of the catholic church!!!!

[Kliska]

Just a few minor points about the list, Trance, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to go through your points, to help me formulate a post:

They believe The Pope is God in flesh (when he is introduced his is always called his holiness... and I use lowercase letters, because only God is Holy)

They see the Pope as the "Vicar of Christ;" which is the idea that the Pope represents Christ on Earth. Why is this? Because Peter is seen to be the first Pope, with an unbroken line (according to the RC) all the way down to our present Pope. So, they do equate the Pope with Christ, though most Catholics would not say he's God directly.

They believe Mary is holy and equal to God

They insist that the title "Mother of God" gives respect to Jesus, and not Mary, and that they do not worship her. This varies greatly in individual's belief systems. Mary is discussed in relation to Jesus, so there are are those that see her to play a role in redemption; hence "co-redemptrix" and also see her as an intercessor, participating in Jesus' sacrifice and approaching Him in Heaven on behalf of the believers here on Earth.

They believe a mortal priest can forgive sin (therefore completely negating Christ's Sacrifice on The Cross)

They believe that when one is Baptized that erases original sin, as well as any sin up to that point, and that the reason why priests can forgive sin is because they are a stand-in for Christ. Any sin brought upon oneself after baptism has to be confessed so that it can be forgiven; they don't see faith or baptism by the Spirit as a permanent sealing of the Holy Spirit. You can lose and regain your salvation depending on what type of sin you commit and then confession.

They believe just by being Catholic, they are guaranteed to get into Heaven

Actually this one is the opposite and a good witnessing tool; they have no guarantee at all that they will get into Heaven, and most know it. Because of the idea of mortal sin; a Catholic never knows when one is going to die, and hence constantly runs the risk of having a mortal sin on their soul and heading to Hell. From their perspective, you could fully trust Jesus to save you, but if you commit a mortal sin prior to death and don't confess it, you are going to wind up in Hell. If you have venial sin on your soul, you wind up in purgatory. They do believe that everyone who winds up in purgatory will make it to Heaven.

They believe that dead saints (and not a Living God) intercedes on their behalf

There are two ways I've heard this described; one is as Trance says. The other is that the Saint has no power on their own, rather they hear the prayers of the believers on earth, and then petition God Himself to answer them.

They believe that deeds and work-of-hand, and not faith, is what grants you favor with God

They do have a heavy reliance on sacraments.

The answer to all of this is to know scripture that directly speaks to what they think they know. So, the idea of there being only ONE mediator between God and mankind can be shown to them. It isn't Mary or the Saints, but rather Jesus. The idea that a person can KNOW for a fact that they are saved is readily apparent in scripture, esp. writings of John. Also know that the individual Catholics often don't really know what their catechism says, and may have different beliefs amongst them. Just as a small example, many Catholics don't realize it is a mortal sin to miss mass, according to the catechism...

[Trance]

Just a few minor points about the list, Trance, I hope you don't mind, I'm going to go through your points, to help me formulate a post:



They see the Pope as the "Vicar of Christ;" which is the idea that the Pope represents Christ on Earth. Why is this? Because Peter is seen to be the first Pope, with an unbroken line (according to the RC) all the way down to our present Pope. So, they do equate the Pope with Christ, though most Catholics would not say he's God directly.



They insist that the title "Mother of God" gives respect to Jesus, and not Mary, and that they do not worship her. This varies greatly in individual's belief systems. Mary is discussed in relation to Jesus, so there are are those that see her to play a role in redemption; hence "co-redemptrix" and also see her as an intercessor, participating in Jesus' sacrifice and approaching Him in Heaven on behalf of the believers here on Earth.



They believe that when one is Baptized that erases original sin, as well as any sin up to that point, and that the reason why priests can forgive sin is because they are a stand-in for Christ. Any sin brought upon oneself after baptism has to be confessed so that it can be forgiven; they don't see faith or baptism by the Spirit as a permanent sealing of the Holy Spirit. You can lose and regain your salvation depending on what type of sin you commit and then confession.



Actually this one is the opposite and a good witnessing tool; they have no guarantee at all that they will get into Heaven, and most know it. Because of the idea of mortal sin; a Catholic never knows when one is going to die, and hence constantly runs the risk of having a mortal sin on their soul and heading to Hell. From their perspective, you could fully trust Jesus to save you, but if you commit a mortal sin prior to death and don't confess it, you are going to wind up in Hell. If you have venial sin on your soul, you wind up in purgatory. They do believe that everyone who winds up in purgatory will make it to Heaven.



There are two ways I've heard this described; one is as Trance says. The other is that the Saint has no power on their own, rather they hear the prayers of the believers on earth, and then petition God Himself to answer them.



They do have a heavy reliance on sacraments.

The answer to all of this is to know scripture that directly speaks to what they think they know. So, the idea of there being only ONE mediator between God and mankind can be shown to them. It isn't Mary or the Saints, but rather Jesus. The idea that a person can KNOW for a fact that they are saved is readily apparent in scripture, esp. writings of John. Also know that the individual Catholics often don't really know what their catechism says, and may have different beliefs amongst them. Just as a small example, many Catholics don't realize it is a mortal sin to miss mass, according to the catechism...

Then how do you defend them kneeling down before images and statues of Mary and The Saints? Does the 2cd Commandment somehow not apply to them?

[Kliska]

Then how do you defend them kneeling down before images and statues of Mary and The Saints? Does the 2cd Commandment somehow not apply to them?

I don't defend them, my post above is against all of their beliefs, I was just clarifying their beliefs taught in the catechism; scripture is plain that there are no other mediators between God and man, save Jesus Christ, and the intercessor is the Holy Spirit. We shouldn't kneel in worship to anything other than God, which is what you show them in scripture, reviewing things like the commandments, as you said, and Jesus' and Paul's clear teaching. Another interesting fact; they tend to divide up the commandments differently than Protestants as well.

[OKC03Cobra]

Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...l#ixzz1iLPWXV6

[Trance]

Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...l#ixzz1iLPWXV6

I'm not worried. Eventually all evil will be exposed for what it is, and the rcc is no exception.

[Verisimilitude]

Pope: Other Christian Denominations Not True Churches

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,...l#ixzz1iLPWXV6

Took a quick look at the article. All I can say is this...how can anyone pray in unity with the rcc when the rcc is busy praying to Mary and Joseph and not Jesus?

[Accepted]

I don't defend them, my post above is against all of their beliefs, I was just clarifying their beliefs taught in the catechism; scripture is plain that there are no other mediators between God and man, save Jesus Christ, and the intercessor is the Holy Spirit. We shouldn't kneel in worship to anything other than God, which is what you show them in scripture, reviewing things like the commandments, as you said, and Jesus' and Paul's clear teaching. Another interesting fact; they tend to divide up the commandments differently than Protestants as well.

I appreciate this, as it is very important when witnessing to Catholics to not exaggerate or misconstrue beliefs. Many people erroneously do this in their well-meaning zeal, and the result is that Catholics stop listening. As a former Catholic, I really think the best method of talking to a Catholic is to show them what Jesus really said, and that will usually separate those who love Jesus but are ignorant of the Bible from those who really don't believe and don't want to know the truth.

[organgrinder]

I appreciate this, as it is very important when witnessing to Catholics to not exaggerate or misconstrue beliefs. Many people erroneously do this in their well-meaning zeal, and the result is that Catholics stop listening. As a former Catholic, I really think the best method of talking to a Catholic is to show them what Jesus really said, and that will usually separate those who love Jesus but are ignorant of the Bible from those who really don't believe and don't want to know the truth.

Excellent points. Most Catholics are not in lock-step with church doctrine. Treat them as individuals who will have varied beliefs while being Catholic. Find out what THEY believe and go from that point on what the Bible has to say on what they believe. You will find some common ground, too (Trinity doctrine for one). Minister to them as people and preferably not in an accusatory or condescending way. It's a better way to build a relationship with someone and to reach them with the Gospel truth.

God bless.

-Speedy (former Roman Catholic)

[Buzzardhut]

[organgrinder]

That second video is exactly why I said not all Catholics believe the same things and should be ministered to as individuals. How we minister and how we present the Gospel is just as important as what we say. Then again, you could also say much the same about people attending any number of Protestant churches. Not everyone is in lockstep with a particular denomination's teachings. No different with Catholics.

I think you need to separate a particular church's teachings from what the individuals in that church believe. While there may be error in a particular church's teachings, that doesn't necessarily mean all the congregants buy into those teachings. You can only know by talking to the individuals and then minister accordingly, in my opinion.

God bless.

-Speedy

[Kliska]

That second video is exactly why I said not all Catholics believe the same things and should be ministered to as individuals. How we minister and how we present the Gospel is just as important as what we say. Then again, you could also say much the same about people attending any number of Protestant churches. Not everyone is in lockstep with a particular denomination's teachings. No different with Catholics.

I think you need to separate a particular church's teachings from what the individuals in that church believe. While there may be error in a particular church's teachings, that doesn't necessarily mean all the congregants buy into those teachings. You can only know by talking to the individuals and then minister accordingly, in my opinion.

God bless.

-Speedy

As you can tell, I believe in talking to individuals about their beliefs and their salvation. The big difference, for me, is that it is the Roman Catholic Church's teaching itself that the member must accept and believe certain teachings to be Catholic; the way they see it, you must accept and believe all the Catechism holds to be Christian. By talking with someone that does not agree with something in the Catechism, you can show them that their own church would not claim them, and that they aren't really Catholic at all; not according to the church itself. What they do with that information is then up to them... but at the root it shows hypocrisy and logical contradiction; in way they are already Protestant, they just don't admit it.