Jewish Beliefs in OT??

[JoyJoyJoy]

Mods, not sure if this is the correct forum for my question.

The Jewish people believe in the OT, right? Do they read/understand the OT Prophets re: the fall of Damascus and the Ez war?? Or maybe do the rabbis understand and advise the leaders of Israel??

I am asking this in all humility because I dont know a lot about Jewish faith/religion. I am in no way being judgemental.

[Raphael]

Romans 11:25 (a "blindness in part")

The above pertains to the basics of salvation through Jesus Christ, but those in the light provided by real salvation have the benefit of scriptural "hindsight" which the unsaved do not have. It is easy for millions of Christians to miss the prophetic meanings in OT scripture, so it's not hard to understand how the present-day Jewish people can miss the same meanings. Jews that become Christian of course can then get insight into all scripture, and are privileged to see many things in OT rituals and practices that foreshadowed Jesus.

For most Jews their "Messiah" has not arrived. They will unfortunately see the AC as "the Messiah" (for a time). They are in a sort of denial where the afterlife is concerned. They believe that they must recreate the Temple and its implements (in process) in order to make acceptable blood sacrifices for atonement of their sins. If you ask a Jewish person how their sins are atoned for right now, they cannot answer.

Oddly enough not even the majority of Israeli citizens are what you would call "orthodox" - although the number is growing. Israelis are being led to Jesus as well. For those being led to the Lord, it becomes easy for them to see the evidence of the real Messiah in the OT, as well as the prophetic connection to their own country's reconstitution. This and other prophetic sites shed much light for both unsaved Jew and Gentile by revealing fulfilled - and soon to be fulfilled - Bible prophecy.

[Buzzardhut]

Mods, not sure if this is the correct forum for my question.

The Jewish people believe in the OT, right? Do they read/understand the OT Prophets re: the fall of Damascus and the Ez war?? Or maybe do the rabbis understand and advise the leaders of Israel??

I am asking this in all humility because I dont know a lot about Jewish faith/religion. I am in no way being judgemental.

They have written "extra books" that they believe more than scripture such as the Talmud/Mishna/Gemara
which is a greater reason why they would not believe in Jesus; He does not fit in with their extra writings.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/..._&_mishna.html

[Guy4God]

It depends on the Jew. Some hold the OT in high regard, but as noted above, they are blind in part so they simply do not see Jesus. Other Jews are very religious and hold the Misna, Talmoud and Torah as their books...while others hold the prophets up. Overall the nation of Israel today is pretty secular. Ezekiel foretold of the time they would be gathered into the land, but be in unbelief. We are in that day. The fact that some groups, in Israel, are starting to embrace Jesus as Messiah points us to how close we really are to the return of Christ.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 is looming on the horizon, and we all know it, but many forget that God clearly states that in that event He will make Himself known in the eyes of the world and the nation of Israel. He says in vs.23: "Thus I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself, and I will be known in the eyes of many nations. Then they shall know that I am the Lord.”’

[grateful1]

It depends on the Jew....”’

Some believe they are a race, some a religion, and some a creed. What is remarkable is that they are still here...all the other civilizations of antiquity are gone. Pray for them. A blindness and hardness of heart has settled on them and only a few have received their Messiah. The numbers are growing and we can all take heart that soon the Remnant will call out "blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord."

[iSong6:3]

Romans 11:25 (a "blindness in part")

The above pertains to the basics of salvation through Jesus Christ, but those in the light provided by real salvation have the benefit of scriptural "hindsight" which the unsaved do not have. It is easy for millions of Christians to miss the prophetic meanings in OT scripture, so it's not hard to understand how the present-day Jewish people can miss the same meanings. Jews that become Christian of course can then get insight into all scripture, and are privileged to see many things in OT rituals and practices that foreshadowed Jesus.

For most Jews their "Messiah" has not arrived. They will unfortunately see the AC as "the Messiah" (for a time). They are in a sort of denial where the afterlife is concerned. They believe that they must recreate the Temple and its implements (in process) in order to make acceptable blood sacrifices for atonement of their sins. If you ask a Jewish person how their sins are atoned for right now, they cannot answer.

Oddly enough not even the majority of Israeli citizens are what you would call "orthodox" - although the number is growing. Israelis are being led to Jesus as well. For those being led to the Lord, it becomes easy for them to see the evidence of the real Messiah in the OT, as well as the prophetic connection to their own country's reconstitution. This and other prophetic sites shed much light for both unsaved Jew and Gentile by revealing fulfilled - and soon to be fulfilled - Bible prophecy.

Excellent. Just re: the highlighted part, most Jews who believe in God think He has that mythical scale thing, your good deeds must outweigh your bad deeds.

Theologically, though, the rabbis have come to the conclusion that "charity", as in giving money, not the Olde English meaning of love, is the way. They say that since there is no Temple, the money that you would spend on your sacrifices you should now spend on the poor and needy. It's like what you would sacrifice if there was a Temple, it shows intention.

That's why Jews tend to give to charity a lot and if you are on mailing lists you get tons of requests around the holidays, especially the High Holy Days when the issue is forgiveness of sins.

But you're right, most Jews can't answer because they don't think about it. Their focus in on this life, the here and now, making this world better. The next world is fuzzy to them, not really thought about.

[PraiseIsWhatIDO]

Didn't they also see Jesus as being weak and their messiah would not have been a carpenter or die on a cross? Not sure but I think this is also true. Anyone able to shed some light on this one also?

[iSong6:3]

Jewish eschatology is like Judaism, there is no one system of belief. It's hard for Christians to understand. In their writings in their "holy books", rabbis contradict one another and it's all part of the mishmash Judaism is.

I hesitate to even link anything because eschatology is such a nebulous thing in Judaism. Some things I've seen take one quote but there are others, even opposite beliefs also believed that they don't quote, so it's not accurate. Yet there are some streams, even they are not nearly as precise as we believers in Jesus see them.

Not sure if the Damascus prophecy is mentioned much at all, there is some belief in Gog/Magog but it's unclear too what that is, just an attack sorta thing.

With that in mind, there are some rabbis who see that we are in the last days. They are looking for a political leader to help them. Somehow, there will be the Israeli "Golden Age" where Israel will be at peace and the leader nation of the world, to show the True God to the nations. That's always been a strong theme, what they hope and pray for. That's why the AC thing is so dangerous for them. They will not worship him but they will think for a short time that he will lead them to peace (the 7-year covenant.)

Bibi has that Bible study going, we've been praying for eyes to be opened there, he also used to have as his advisor Joel Rosenberg, we know Joel is not a shrinking violet and Bibi must have gotten good information and advice from him.


JudaismMain article: Jewish eschatology

In Judaism, End Times are usually called The End of Days (aḥarit ha-yamim, אחרית הימים), a phrase that appears several times in the Tanakh. The idea of a messianic age has a prominent place in Jewish thought. It is an event with a pre-determined date (which is unknown), but can come earlier through religious observance and good deeds.

The term may refer to a number of interwoven themes:

Jewish messianism
The ingathering of the exiles
The land of Israel will turn from a desert into a garden, flourishing with fruits
Rebuilding of the Temple
Animal sacrifice or Korban[12][13][14]
The World to Come (Olam Haba) is an ambiguous term that may refer to the afterlife, the messianic world, or the life of the resurrected.
End of Days recorded in the Tanakh:

Tumultuous events will overturn the old world order, as is recorded in the following passages from the Old Testament (Tanakh):

Deuteronomy 4:29-39 (King James Version): But if from thence thou shalt seek the Lord thy GOD, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the Lord thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the Lord thy God is a merciful God) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it? Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as the seas turn black and feel like mud, and all will know the wrath and atonement of their sins? Or hath God assayed to go and take him a nation from the midst of another nation, by temptations, by signs, and by wonders, and by war, and by a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm, and by great terrors, according to all that the Lord your God did for you in Egypt before your eyes? Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the Lord he is God; there is none else beside him. Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire. And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt; to drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day. Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the Lord he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.

Isaiah 2:1-5 (King James Version): The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem. And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Micah 4:1-5 (King James Version): But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it. And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among many people, and rebuke strong nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up a sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. But they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree; and none shall make them afraid: for the mouth of the Lord of hosts hath spoken it. For all people will walk every one in the name of his god, and we will walk in the name of the Lord our God for ever and ever.

These events create a new order in which God is universally recognized as the ruler over His creation, which includes everyone and everything.

Description of the Messianic Era

According to Jewish tradition, the Messianic Era will be one of global peace and harmony, an era free of strife and hardship, and one conducive to the furtherment of the knowledge of the Creator. The theme of the Messiah ushering in an era of global peace is encapsulated in one of the most famous scriptural passages from the book of Isaiah:

"They shall beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks; nation will not lift sword against nation and they will no longer study warfare (Isaiah 2:4)."

In his Mishneh Torah, Maimonides describes the Messianic Era:

"And at that time there will be no hunger or war, no jealousy or rivalry. For the good will be plentiful, and all delicacies available as dust.

The entire occupation of the world will be only to know God... the people Israel will be of great wisdom; they will perceive the esoteric truths and comprehend their Creator's wisdom as is the capacity of man. As it is written (Isaiah 11:9): "For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of God, as the waters cover the sea." "[15]

Advent of the Messianic Era

According to the Talmud,[16] the Midrash,[17] and the medieval Kabbalistic work, the Zohar,[18] the Messiah must arrive before the year 6000 from the time of creation. (According to Orthodox Jewish belief, the Hebrew calendar dates to the time of creation. The year 2010 corresponds to the year 5770 from creation, or before the year 2240).

The Midrash comments:

"Six eons for going in and coming out, for war and peace. The seventh eon is entirely Shabbat and rest for life everlasting[17] ".

There is a kabbalistic tradition[19] that maintains that each of the 7 days of the week, which are based upon the seven days of creation, correspond to the seven millennia of creation. The tradition teaches that the seventh day of the week, the Sabbath day of rest, corresponds to the seventh millennium, the age of universal 'rest' - the Messianic Era. The seventh millennium perforce begins with the year 6000, and is the latest time the Messiah can come. Supporting and elaborating on this theme are numerous early and late Jewish scholars, including the Ramban,[20] Isaac Abrabanel,[21] Abraham Ibn Ezra,[22] Rabbeinu Bachya,[23] the Vilna Gaon,[24] the Lubavitcher Rebbe,[25] the Ramchal,[26] Aryeh Kaplan[27] and Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis.[28] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End_time#Judaism

[Chris]

Mods, not sure if this is the correct forum for my question.

The Jewish people believe in the OT, right? Do they read/understand the OT Prophets re: the fall of Damascus and the Ez war?? Or maybe do the rabbis understand and advise the leaders of Israel??

I am asking this in all humility because I dont know a lot about Jewish faith/religion. I am in no way being judgemental.

There was an article recently that said that Netanyahu has recently "re-started" Bible study lessons at his complex for the leaders of Israel. Apparently I think the article said that the first PM David Ben-Gurion used to hold them when he was in office. This use to be a regular thing and Netanyahu wants to restart it.

As for studying the OT, Bible, etc. I believe Netanyahu's son recently won the Israel Bible study challenge where they are asked questions on the Bible and have to answer them right. That would be right according to the rabbis. I believe Bibi Netanyahu and the leaders of Israel are very aware of the Ezekiel 38-39 prophecies and I believe they are prepared for them or at least expecting the possibility that they could happen soon. JMHO.

ETA: Just found the link for you: http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPol...aspx?id=248941

[Buzzardhut]

There was an article recently that said that Netanyahu has recently "re-started" Bible study lessons at his complex for the leaders of Israel. Apparently I think the article said that the first PM David Ben-Gurion used to hold them when he was in office. This use to be a regular thing and Netanyahu wants to restart it.

As for studying the OT, Bible, etc. I believe Netanyahu's son recently won the Israel Bible study challenge where they are asked questions on the Bible and have to answer them right. That would be right according to the rabbis. I believe Bibi Netanyahu and the leaders of Israel are very aware of the Ezekiel 38-39 prophecies and I believe they are prepared for them or at least expecting the possibility that they could happen soon. JMHO.

ETA: Just found the link for you: http://www.jpost.com/DiplomacyAndPol...aspx?id=248941

[Jacinth]

I believe Bibi Netanyahu and the leaders of Israel are very aware of the Ezekiel 38-39 prophecies and I believe they are prepared for them or at least expecting the possibility that they could happen soon. JMHO.

Does Bibi consider himself and Orthodox Jew or other?

Why would he and the leaders of Israel put any stock in those prophecies when much of Judaism ignores them or is ignorant?

[iSong6:3]

Does Bibi consider himself and Orthodox Jew or other?

Why would he and the leaders of Israel put any stock in those prophecies when much of Judaism ignores them or is ignorant?

No, he's not observant.

Imo, they don't.

ETA: Remember, they tend not to read the Bible as Christians do, they adhere to their sages' opinions. Still, the Holy Spirit can reveal things to them supernaturally, that's what we pray for.

There's an underlying belief that God is with them, but they don't get into the specifics of prophecy, it seems to be muddled to this date.

At any rate, here's an example of the answers you get when you ask an observant Jew about their views on Gog/Magog:

What is "Gog and Magog"?
by Rabbi Shlomo Chein

The book of Ezekiel1 speaks of a climactic war with "Gog of the land Magog" in Israel "at the end of years" [of the Jewish exile]2 .

According to the simple interpretation, after G-d brings the Jewish people back to Israel with Moshiach,3 and the nations hear of the success of the Jewish people in rebuilding their land, they will gather to do battle against them, lead by Gog, the king of Magog. The battle will symbolize the final war between good and evil. At that time G-d will destroy Gog and co., and all evil will ultimately be vanquished.

However, much like all (especially Messianic) prophecies, there really is no "simplest" interpretation. The battle of Gog and Magog in particular is very cryptic and subject to a wide array of commentary and interpretation. It is another of the complex issues of the Messianic redemption.4

In fact, in his book "Moshiach", Rabbi I. Schochet writes:5 an authoritative tradition from the disciples of the Baal Shem Tov6 states that the extraordinary length of the present severe exile has already made up for the troubles of that battle, and it will no longer occur."

Footnotes

1. Ezekiel chapters 38 and 39.
2. For more background information, the following is from Rabbi Aryeh Kaplan's "Living Torah": Magog: Most probably a Teutonic people, living to the north of the Holy Land (cf. Ezekiel 38:2). Some sources identify Magog with Germania (Targum Yonathan; Targum on 1 Chronicles 1:5; Pesikta Zutratha). Others identify them with the Goths (Yerushalmi, Megillah 1:9). These were a Teutonic people who migrated to Scythia, in what is now southern Russia. It is therefore not contradictory when some sources identify Magog with Scythia (Josephus; Yoma 10a, according to Rabbenu Chananel; Arukh s.v. Germamia). Ancient histories state that the Scythians came from Asia, driven by the Massagetae (cf. Meshekh), and settling near the Cimerians (Herodotus 4:11; see note on Genesis 10:2, 'Gomer'). Linguistically, the Scythians were related to the Iranians, and hence, to the Persians and the Medes. It is therefore significant that there was a Persian tribe known as the Germanians (Herodotus 1:125). Other sources note that Magog may denote the Mongols, whose very name may be a corruption of Magog. Indeed, Arab writers referred to the Great Wall of China as the 'wall of al Magog' (Rabbi Aaron Marcus, Kesseth HaSofer, p. 112a). Other ancient sources agree with the identification of Magog as living to the north of the Black Sea (Yov'loth 9:8). Agag: A generic name for the kings of Amalek (Rashbam); see notes on Genesis 12:15, 20:2. See 1 Samuel 15:8; Esther 3:1. The Septuagint identifies Agag with Gog; cf. Ezekiel 38:2. Amalek: A tribe descended from Esau, see Genesis 36:12. Amalek came from around Gobolitis and Petra, to the north of Sinai (Josephus 3:2:1). See Numbers 24:20.
3. Ezekiel 37
4. See Igeret Teyman, end of ch. 3, Midrash Tanchuma, Korach: end of 14, Agadat Bereishit 2:1; Midrash Tehilim 2:4; and the parallel passages cited there. See also Targum Yehonathan (and Targum Yerushalmi) on Numbers 11:26; and Torah Shelemah on this verse, note 196. (These sources were collected from Rabbi Immanuel Schochet's book "Moshiach", Appendix 1 footnote 2.
5. See http://www.moshiach.com/topics/in-de...ben-yossef.php footnote 17.
6. See R. Shemuel of Sochachev, Shem MiShemuel, Vayigash, s.v. Vayigash 5677 (s.v. venireh od, p. 298bf).

http://www.askmoses.com/en/article/2...and-Magog.html

[iSong6:3]

Didn't they also see Jesus as being weak and their messiah would not have been a carpenter or die on a cross? Not sure but I think this is also true. Anyone able to shed some light on this one also?

They were/are looking for a political leader to lead Israel to peace, as in the Millennium.

That didn't happen, Jesus died, so to them, He could not have been Messiah.

Praise God, they will see how wrong they were and accept Jesus as Messiah.