Is This The Last Generation Or Just One Big Coincidence?

[Buzzardhut]

Besides Luke 4:17-21 which was already mentioned, where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61:1-2, the Bible does refer to the "gap" in other places.

Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols.
Hosea 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

Israel would not have a king again until the Messiah's kingdom, but it was unknown how long that might be, just "for many days."

Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
Luke 19:12 So He said, "A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.
Luke 19:13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'
Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
Luke 19:15 "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

Jesus gives a parable about the kingdom and when it will appear. A nobleman (Christ) went to a distant country (earth) to receive a kingdom; He doesn't receive it at that time--He would return. He gives instructions while in this distant country and tells the people He will come back--He doesn't say how long that will be. Some time passes, and no one knows for sure just when He is coming back. But He eventually returns and receives His kingdom, at which time His faithful servants are rewarded with responsibilities in the kingdom.

John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus doesn't say how much time will pass between His leaving and the rapture, just that He is leaving, but that He will come again and take us away with Him. But after the resurrection, the disciples ask, isn't it time for the kingdom yet?

Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

Jesus gives them no time clues as to when the kingdom will appear, then ascends back to heaven, for an indefinite period of time. God gave definite time periods when dealing with Israel, but not regarding the church age: “for many days.”

[jonshaff]

Besides Luke 4:17-21 which was already mentioned, where Jesus quotes from Isaiah 61:1-2, the Bible does refer to the "gap" in other places.

Hosea 3:4 For the sons of Israel will remain for many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar and without ephod or household idols.
Hosea 3:5 Afterward the sons of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king; and they will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

Israel would not have a king again until the Messiah's kingdom, but it was unknown how long that might be, just "for many days."

Luke 19:11 While they were listening to these things, Jesus went on to tell a parable, because He was near Jerusalem, and they supposed that the kingdom of God was going to appear immediately.
Luke 19:12 So He said, "A nobleman went to a distant country to receive a kingdom for himself, and then return.
Luke 19:13 "And he called ten of his slaves, and gave them ten minas and said to them, 'Do business with this until I come back.'
Luke 19:14 "But his citizens hated him and sent a delegation after him, saying, 'We do not want this man to reign over us.'
Luke 19:15 "When he returned, after receiving the kingdom, he ordered that these slaves, to whom he had given the money, be called to him so that he might know what business they had done.

Jesus gives a parable about the kingdom and when it will appear. A nobleman (Christ) went to a distant country (earth) to receive a kingdom; He doesn't receive it at that time--He would return. He gives instructions while in this distant country and tells the people He will come back--He doesn't say how long that will be. Some time passes, and no one knows for sure just when He is coming back. But He eventually returns and receives His kingdom, at which time His faithful servants are rewarded with responsibilities in the kingdom.

John 14:3 "If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, there you may be also.

Jesus doesn't say how much time will pass between His leaving and the rapture, just that He is leaving, but that He will come again and take us away with Him. But after the resurrection, the disciples ask, isn't it time for the kingdom yet?

Acts 1:6 So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?"
Acts 1:7 He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority;

Jesus gives them no time clues as to when the kingdom will appear, then ascends back to heaven, for an indefinite period of time. God gave definite time periods when dealing with Israel, but not regarding the church age: “for many days.”

Thank you so much!

[RandallB]

and what, if the mentioned translation is more accurate than yours ?

we need some more witnesses here.

Not a Problem


King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


New International Version (©1984)
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

New Living Translation (©2007)
The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."

English Standard Version (©2001)
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He will confirm his promise with many for one set of seven time periods. In the middle of the seven time periods, he will stop the sacrifices and food offerings. This will happen along with disgusting things that cause destruction until [those time periods] come to an end. It has been determined that this will happen to those who destroy [the city]."


American King James Version
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.

American Standard Version
And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations'shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and ihe desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

Darby Bible Translation
And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and because of the protection of abominations there shall be a desolator, even until that the consumption and what is determined shall be poured out upon the desolate.

English Revised Version
And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and for the half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the consummation, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolator.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

World English Bible
He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out on the desolate.

Young's Literal Translation
And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

[Praying]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

[RandallB]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

[Maywood]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

I second that!
Even though sometimes it seems overwhelming and takes time to let it go through the mind and much prayer.

But the Bible comes to life now and I can see the WHOLE picture infront of me, not just one verse from here and another from there.
And not even that, it helps to live free of all the baggage of Mistery Babylon system they put into our heads in kindergatens, school, universities, psychologies, you must-must-must in order to be-be-be.

[Buzzardhut]

and what, if the mentioned translation is more accurate than yours ?

we need some more witnesses here.

It's not, we don't meld versions into our religion of choice.

Not a Problem


King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


New International Version (©1984)
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing [of the temple] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."

New Living Translation (©2007)
The ruler will make a treaty with the people for a period of one set of seven, but after half this time, he will put an end to the sacrifices and offerings. And as a climax to all his terrible deeds, he will set up a sacrilegious object that causes desecration, until the fate decreed for this defiler is finally poured out on him."

English Standard Version (©2001)
And he shall make a strong covenant with many for one week, and for half of the week he shall put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"And he will make a firm covenant with the many for one week, but in the middle of the week he will put a stop to sacrifice and grain offering; and on the wing of abominations will come one who makes desolate, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
He will confirm his promise with many for one set of seven time periods. In the middle of the seven time periods, he will stop the sacrifices and food offerings. This will happen along with disgusting things that cause destruction until [those time periods] come to an end. It has been determined that this will happen to those who destroy [the city]."


American King James Version
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the middle of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured on the desolate.

American Standard Version
And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations'shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the full end, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolate.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And he shall confirm the covenant with many, in one week: and in the half of the week the victim and the sacrifice shall fall: and there shall be in the temple the abomination of desolation: and ihe desolation shall continue even to the consummation, and to the end.

Darby Bible Translation
And he shall confirm a covenant with the many for one week; and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and because of the protection of abominations there shall be a desolator, even until that the consumption and what is determined shall be poured out upon the desolate.

English Revised Version
And he shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and for the half of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease; and upon the wing of abominations shall come one that maketh desolate; and even unto the consummation, and that determined, shall wrath be poured out upon the desolator.

Webster's Bible Translation
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations, he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

World English Bible
He shall make a firm covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the offering to cease; and on the wing of abominations [shall come] one who makes desolate; and even to the full end, and that determined, shall [wrath] be poured out on the desolate.

Young's Literal Translation
And he hath strengthened a covenant with many -- one week, and in the midst of the week he causeth sacrifice and present to cease, and by the wing of abominations he is making desolate, even till the consummation, and that which is determined is poured on the desolate one.'

[eclipse]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

I third that Praying you said it so well, to RadallB/Buzzardhut/iSong

[EuroJoe]

I know its in all english versions.

[RandallB]

I know its in all english versions.

links?


Confused as to what you mean.

KJV Kings James Version is THE English version....

Looked into Luther's version a bit.

Martin wrote it in the common man's German. It was instrumental in freeing the common people from the tyranny of the Catholic priesthood's hold over the interpretion of God's word.

However Martin was ammillenial along with Calvin and Knox. They had forgotten the pre-millennial teachings of the early 1st & 2nd century church fathers and were greatly infuence by the allegorical teachings of Augustine that became popular around the 5th century AD.

Having said that we owe a tremendous dept of gratitude to Martin, Calvin, and Knox in their mission to bring the Bible back to the common man so that we can read God's word for ourselves.

1 Sola scriptura ("by Scripture alone")
2 Sola fide ("by faith alone")
3 Sola gratia ("by grace alone")
4 Solus Christus or Solo Christo ("Christ alone" or "through Christ alone")
5 Soli Deo gloria ("glory to God alone")

However, I would very much recommend moving to the KJV or NKJ for any Creation or Eschatology issues. Martin was greatly influenced by the allegorical interpretations methods of the Bible.

[EuroJoe]

links?


Confused as to what you mean.

KJV Kings James Version is THE English version....

Im not allowed to post in other language than english.

theres also a difference in Dan 12:4
it doesnt say: many shall run to and fro
it says: many will investigate or understand.

just sayin..

maby some Hebrew guy can solve this..

[Buzzardhut]

Im not allowed to post in other language than english.

theres also a difference in Dan 12:4
it doesnt say: many shall run to and fro
it says: many will investigate or understand.

just sayin..

maby some Hebrew guy can solve this..

you are only catching one facet of many applications:

The reference is clearly to those who should thus go to impart knowledge; to give information; to call the attention of men to great and important matters.

The language is applicable to any methods of imparting important knowledge, and it refers to a time when this would be the characteristic of the age.

There is nothing else to which it can be so well applied as to the labors of Christian missionaries, and ministers of the gospel, and others who, in the cause of Christian truth, go about to rouse the attention of men to the great subjects of religion; and the natural application of the language is to refer it to the times when the gospel would be preached to the world at large.

And knowledge shall be increased - To wit, by this method. The angel seems to mean that in this way there would be an advance in knowledge on all the subjects of religion, and particularly on the points to which he had referred. This would be one of the characteristics of these times, and this would be the means by which it would be accomplished. Our own age has furnished a good illustration of the meaning of this language, and it will be still more fully and strikingly illustrated as the time approaches when the knowledge of the Lord shall fill the whole world.

Many shall endeavour to search out the sense; and knowledge shall be increased by these means; though the meaning shall not be fully known till the events take place: Then the seal shall be broken, and the sense become plain. This seems to be the meaning of this verse, though another has been put on it, viz., "Many shall run to and fro preaching the Gospel of Christ, and therefore religious knowledge and true wisdom shall be increased." This is true in itself; but it is not the meaning of the prophet's words.

towards the end of the time appointed, many persons will be stirred up to inquire into these things delivered in this book, and will spare no pains or cost to get knowledge of them; will read and study the Scriptures, and meditate on them; compare one passage with another; spiritual things with spiritual, in order to obtain the mind of Christ; will peruse carefully the writings of such who have gone before them, who have attempted anything of this kind; and will go far and near to converse with persons that have any understanding of such things: and by such means, with the blessing of God upon them, the knowledge of this book of prophecy will be increased; and things will appear plainer the nearer the accomplishment of them is; and especially when accomplished, when prophecy and facts can be compared together: and not only this kind of knowledge, but knowledge of all spiritual things, of all evangelic truths and doctrines, will be abundantly enlarged at this time; and the earth will be filled and covered with it, as the sea with its waters; see Isaiah 11:9.

http://bible.cc/daniel/12-4.htm

[HisGr8fulServant]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

[RandallB]

Im not allowed to post in other language than english.

theres also a difference in Dan 12:4
it doesnt say: many shall run to and fro
it says: many will investigate or understand.

just sayin..

maby some Hebrew guy can solve this..

Luther wasn't a Hebrew guy. He was translating from Greek into German.

He used Erasmus' second edition (1519) of the Greek New Testament, known as the Textus Receptus.

Still I think you are diverting attention from the issue.

You asked for witnesses. 15 of them showed up.

That's 15 to 1.

Please take them seriously.

[Gideon300]

Well Waiting since it seems you know exactly what was meant by the temple explain why the temple must be built? Because the AC needs to stand in something? Will he not be in the hearts/minds of many of God's temples? As Paul said, "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

The answer here is very simple and given to us by God in Daniel 9:

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[k]”[l]

You need to go back and read Genesis 11 concerning Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, and research Antiochus Epiphanes. Things that have occurred will occur once again.

[grace-saved]

Thank you Randall B./Buzzardhut/iSong for all your hard work, witness and biblical references. It is so greatly appreciated and needed. My faith and biblical knowledge has greatly increased since joining RR, and it is such a blessing to know there are those here I can trust to lead me down the right and just path based on the True Word of God, even if it isn't the popular thing to do, and even if it disagrees with what I was thinking at the time. Big hug to you all! And thank you again, for not being afraid to speak the truth, - for refusing to tickle our ears, - and for taking the mission of spreading the true message of Jesus Christ seriously. Can't wait to meet you and all my other brothers and sisters here at the banquet!

I agree and I feel constantly blessed to have access to such discerning brothers and sisters in Christ! The time, effort, research, patience, love, and awareness you all put into helping us all understand topics or points you have probably discussed a thousand times is so appreciated. Praying, YOU SAID IT JUST like it came from my heart.. Thank-you God, for allowing the fellowship on this board, the questions others ask, the answers you provide through these caring friends, and encouragment for those of us who need spiritual renewal from time to time..(sometimes, all the time...) Amen.

[EuroJoe]

The answer here is very simple and given to us by God in Daniel 9:

27 He will confirm a covenant with many for one ‘seven.’[h] In the middle of the ‘seven’[i] he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple[j] he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.[k]”[l]

You need to go back and read Genesis 11 concerning Nimrod and the Tower of Babel, and research Antiochus Epiphanes. Things that have occurred will occur once again.

this is also translated: temple = holy places.
i believe this to be inside me
not in a building.

but then again: its all speculation.

[jonshaff]

this is also translated: temple = holy places.
i believe this to be inside me
not in a building.

but then again: its all speculation.

How could it mean you (holy place to holy person) if we are raptured? The temple not built by hands will be with Jesus.

Therefore, a temple that is inanimate shall be present.

[Gideon300]

this is also translated: temple = holy places.
i believe this to be inside me
not in a building.

but then again: its all speculation.

Your speculation if flat out incorrect. A third temple will be erected just like Babylon will be rebuilt for a third and final time. The antichrist is not a christian and does not march into Christian's "holy temple." As already pointed out to you the church will have already been raptured by this time, so the Holy Spirit will no longer be dwelling inside people, so as a matter of speaking, no more inner holy temple. Jesus said to watch for the abomination that causes desolation, this is an actual event that will occur in a rebuilt temple. To say anything other shows a complete lack of understanding prophecy.

[Jlutz]

this is also translated: temple = holy places.
i believe this to be inside me
not in a building.

but then again: its all speculation.

so you believe that an abonination will desolate you after the rapture? That doesn't make any sense.