Why Iran’s Absent From Psalm 83 – Parts One & Two

[dinaljc]

Why Iran’s Absent From Psalm 83 – Part One
on Saturday, February 18, 2012 by Bill Salus
This article was taken from a portion of the biblical commentary of the same name in my book called Revelation Road.

http://www.prophecydepot.net/2012/wh...from-psalm-83/

[iSong6:3]

So intriguing, Dina. I copied the article here:

Why Iran’s Absent From Psalm 83 – Part One
on Saturday, February 18, 2012 by Bill Salus
This article was taken from a portion of the biblical commentary of the same name in my book called Revelation Road.

As the Psalm 83 confederates image depicts, Syrians and Iraqis find association through Assyria, Hezbollah via Tyre in Lebanon, and Hamas hailing from Gaza connects with Philistia. However, there is no mention of Iranians by their three primary historical names, Elamites, Medes, or Persians. This is puzzling, considering Iran reportedly formed bona fide war-pacts in December, 2009, with Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas.
Because Iran is presently providing weapons to Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas, some suggest Iran may be included in Psalm 83 as part of the Assyrians. The Assyrians seem to be among the stronger members in the psalm, because they support the Jordanian army referred to as the children of Lot (Moab and Ammon) in Psalm 83:8.

Assyria also has joined with them; they have helped the children of Lot [Jordanians]. Selah (Psalm 83:8)

The pitfall of connecting modern-day Iran with Assyria is that during the psalmist’s time, Assyria only comprised much of what is today northern Syria and part of Iraq.

In order for Iran to be mentioned in Psalm 83, the psalmist would need to have included, Elam, Media, or Persia in the confederate lineup. At the time the Psalm was written about 3,000 years ago, Elam existed in what is now west-central Iran, Media existed in eastern Iran and far beyond, and Persia occupied primarily the northerly parts of today’s Iran. Thus, it is reasonably safe to exclude Iranians, which are primarily of Persian descent, from the predominately Arab confederacy of Psalm 83.

IRAN IS PERSIAN AND PSALM 83 IS ARAB

The Persian verses Arab distinction made in the previous sentence may be part of the reason Iran doesn’t participate alongside their Arab proxies in Psalm 83. The confederacy is dominated by Arab populations. Arabs and Persians have a longstanding history of warring against each other, dating as far back as the Persian conquest of the Babylonians around 539 BC. In modern history, Iraq and Iran fought against each other from 1980-1988.

Saudis, as the Ishmaelites, and Egyptians, as the Hagarenes, are members of Psalm 83 and they may feel threatened by any Iranian meddling in the Arab- Israeli war. Presently, both of these Arab countries are deeply concerned about Iran’s nuclear aspirations, and fear Iran’s greater goal is to subdue their respective nations in order to form a Shiite Crescent throughout the Middle East. Egypt and Saudi Arabia are primarily comprised of Sunni Muslims.

The Arab verses Persian argument is not the only possible reason Iran refrains from participating in the Psalm 83 War. Possibility number two is that part of Iran may be temporarily incapacitated at the time, according to a generally overlooked prophecy issued by Jeremiah.

In part two, we will look at the dual end time’s prophecies of Iran. Iran appears to experience a double jeopardy in the last days, but most scholars are fixated only on Iran’s role as Persia in Ezekiel’s prophecy regarded with the Gog of Magog invasion. At the time Ezekiel included Persia in the Magog coalition, it only covered a portion of modern day Iran; Elam and Media covered the rest.

Ezekiel appears to have purposely omitted Elam from Gog’s nine-member consortia; but why? It could be that the prophecies concerning Elam in Jeremiah 49:34-39 may hold the answer to this mystery. Find out more in part two called “The Dual End – Time Prophecies of Iran.” http://www.prophecydepot.net/2012/wh...from-psalm-83/

[Iruntherace4Him]

Judgment on Elam (Iran) Jeremiah 49 : 34-39
The word of the Lord that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning Elam, in the beginning of the reign of Zedekiah king of Judah.

Thus says the Lord of hosts: “Behold, I will break the bow of Elam, the mainstay of their might. 36 And I will bring upon Elam the four winds from the four quarters of heaven. And I will scatter them to all those winds, and there shall be no nation to which those driven out of Elam shall not come. 37 I will terrify Elam before their enemies and before those who seek their life. I will bring disaster upon them, my fierce anger, declares the Lord. I will send the sword after them, until I have consumed them, 38 and I will set my throne in Elam and destroy their king and officials, declares the Lord.

39 “But in the latter days I will restore the fortunes of Elam, declares the Lord.”

[Reason&Hope]

I heard Mark Hitchcock on Jan Markell's show this past week addressing Psalm 83. He notes that it is not a prophecy; it is a prayer. Some reasons for this are that no prophets mention it, nor are any indications of when. I am getting his book to see his full argument.

My basic question has been, why in the Gog/Magog attack, are the nearby nations around Israel not mentioned? Bill Salus' answer has been (and I followed him on this) that these nations are defeated in a war, and then Iran comes in later.

But I wonder, with the Arab 'Spring', these nations are in chaos, and while the MB would like to attack Israel, they don't really have the capability right now. So maybe they just cheer on. I don't know; I want to see what Mark Hitchcock says in his book.

[Dani D]

I heard Mark Hitchcock on Jan Markell's show this past week addressing Psalm 83. He notes that it is not a prophecy; it is a prayer. Some reasons for this are that no prophets mention it, nor are any indications of when. I am getting his book to see his full argument.

My basic question has been, why in the Gog/Magog attack, are the nearby nations around Israel not mentioned? Bill Salus' answer has been (and I followed him on this) that these nations are defeated in a war, and then Iran comes in later.

But I wonder, with the Arab 'Spring', these nations are in chaos, and while the MB would like to attack Israel, they don't really have the capability right now. So maybe they just cheer on. I don't know; I want to see what Mark Hitchcock says in his book.

Part two of this article was sent out today in "Prophecy Update" and it's really good! I think this is the most intelligent explanation of all these verses I've seen yet.
Mark Hitchcock also says that he believes that Isaiah 17 was already fulfilled, which I do disagree with, even though I respect him. Thomas Ice also believes Psalm 83 is not a prophecy according to Part 2 of this article, however I disagree, even though I think both are great prophecy teachers.

[dinaljc]

The Dual Prophecies of Iran – Part Two
on Tuesday, February 21, 2012 by Bill Salus
Welcome to part two of this study regarding Iran in Bible prophecy. Part one, called “Why Iran’s Absent from Psalm 83,” lodged logical explanations as to why Iran is not part of the Psalm 83 Arab – Israeli war. Part two provides logistical reasons by demonstrating that Iran seemingly faces a double jeopardy in the days to come. This entire study is taken from the commentary of Revelation Road, Hope Beyond the Horizon.

Even though Iran appears to be absent from the climactic, concluding Arab-Israeli War, they are not excluded from two other significant end-time’s events. The one most widely taught among eschatologists today is described in Ezekiel 38, and is commonly called the Gog of Magog invasion of Israel. In Ezekiel’s prophecy modern day Iran is represented by ancient Persia, and is clearly identified militarily “with a shield and a helmet,” in Russia’s coalition.

Persia, Ethiopia, and Libya are with them, all of them with shield and helmet; (Ezekiel 38:5)

Presently Iran is ranked #12 among world armies, and if Ezekiel’s prophecy were to find fulfillment today, this would position Iran as the third strongest army within the Magog coalition behind Russia ranked #2, and Turkey ranked #6. Moreover, if Iran was included in Psalm 83:6-8, which does not appear to be the case, it would make it the strongest army within the confederacy in front of Egypt (#16), Saudi Arabia (#26), and Syria (#35).

Interestingly, Iran presently possesses strong proxy relationships, and bonafide war-pacts, with Syria, Hezbollah, and Hamas. All three of these proxies appear to be part of the Psalm 83 Arab confederacy. And yet, Iran somehow gets excluded or, otherwise excused from participating directly in Psalm 83.

Some scholars, like Dr. Mark Hitchcock and Dr. Thomas Ice, teach that Psalm 83 is an imprecatory prayer and probably not a specific prophecy. If their interpretations are correct, then the preponderance of this study becomes a useless exercise in futility, and the current Mideast crisis has little to no connection with Psalm 83 whatsoever. However, if they are wrong, and I believe my books Isralestine and Revelation Road evidences that they are; then one must wonder why Iran’s military might is not incorporated in the Psalm war.

Case in point, Psalm 83:4 says;

They have said, “Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, That the name of Israel may be remembered no more.”

Comparatively, Iran’s president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has declared publicly on several occasions that, “Israel must be wiped off the map.”

These similar quotes suggest that Iran and the confederacy of Psalm 83 share the same Anti-Semitic sentiment toward the nation of Israel. If so; then why does Iran appear to be absent from Psalm 83?

Perhaps Persia’s utter destruction in Ezekiel 38:16 – 39:6 prohibits Iran from fighting in Psalm 83. Although this would satisfactorily answer the question about Iran’s apparent absence in the Arab war, the problem is that Psalm 83 probably precedes Ezekiel 38. If this is the case, then Iran’s “shield and helmet,” could still exist when the Arabs come against Israel. If so; then why don’t the Arabs invite mighty Iran to participate in their war party?

The prophecy that may precede Ezekiel 38 – 39, and answer the question about Iran’s conspicuous absence in Psalm 83 is located in Jeremiah 49:34-39. Jeremiah 49:35 predicts Elam (Iran) gets struck at the “foremost of its might,” which if unfulfilled as of yet, could allude to its nuclear program. The next verse says the Elamites (Iranians) will be scattered out of the immediate area into world nations.

Thus says the LORD of hosts: “Behold, I will break the bow of, The foremost of their might. Against Elam I will bring the four winds From the four quarters of heaven, And scatter them toward all those winds; There shall be no nations where the outcasts of Elam will not go. (Jeremiah 49:35-36, nkjv)

Jeremiah and Ezekiel were contemporaries of each other. They both wrote over 2500 years ago. Why did Ezekiel prophesy about Persia, and Jeremiah about Elam? The probable answers are three-fold;

1. Geographically – Elam and Persia occupied two adjoining territories at the time,
2. Culturally – these territories consisted of differing ethnicities, and distinct civilizations,
3. Prophetically – the two prophets were probably predicting separate events.

Presently, Persia and Elam comprise greater Iran. Elam covered west-central Iran as depicted in the image, and Persia encompassed most of the other surrounding territory. A careful study suggests both Ezekiel’s and Jeremiah’s Iranian prophecies appear to be unfulfilled end time events. If so, this suggests that modern day Iran faces a double jeopardy in the last days.

Jeremiah predicts that Elam will be struck at the foremost place of its strength. If such an attack occurred in the near future that would probably be its nuclear site(s). Not necessarily all sites, but specifically sites existing within the boundaries of ancient Elam. A prime target would be the Bushehr nuclear site identified in the image.

Subsequently, the prophet warns that after the attack the affected populations are forced to scatter from the area. Jeremiah says, “There shall be no nations where the outcasts of Elam will not go.” This could be the result of Iranian’s attempting to flee from an isolated nuclear disaster. Should the Bushehr nuclear reactor be struck, this becomes a very real possibility because the facility is loaded with Russian supplied fuel rods. These rods were loaded during the summer of 2010. At the time former UN Ambassador John Bolton warned that once the rods were loaded in place, an attack upon the site could result in severe radioactive fallout.

If Jeremiah 49:34-39 is alluding to a pre-Psalm 83 strike upon Iran’s nuclear program, this could partially explain why the rogue state is not a participant in the Psalm. Additionally, perhaps nuclear fallout causes only the Iranians from the central west coast to evacuate into other nations, which would still leave the preponderance of Persia, (northern Iran) with some remaining shields and helmets to fight with in Ezekiel 38.

It is important to note that Ezekiel seems to intentionally omit Elam from the Gog of Magog invasion. This strongly suggests that not all of modern-day Iran participates in the infamous Gog of Magog invasion of Israel. This conclusion can be safely drawn by recognizing that Ezekiel 32:24-26 identifies Elam and Meshech and Tubal. Meshech and Tubal are listed in the Magog invasion, but Elam is not. Why not? Why didn’t Ezekiel list Elam alongside Persia to identify the entirety of modern-day Iran in his predicted invasion?

The fact that Ezekiel lists Persia in Ezekiel 27:10 and Ezekiel 38:5, and Elam in Ezekiel 32:24 implies that he recognized the territorial and ethnic distinctions between these two populations during his time. He probably omits Elam for the same reason that he omits the Arab populations identified in Psalm 83:6-8, which is because Elam and the Arabs of Psalm 83 do not participate in the Ezekiel 38 invasion.

The probable reason the Psalm 83 Arabs abstain is because they are dealt with in a prior separate war, won by the IDF. The likely reason Elam isn’t listed is because Jeremiah 49:34-39 tells us the Elamites are also involved in their own separate prophecy. Thus, there appear to be three prophecies identified: Psalm 83 (Arabs), Ezekiel 38-39 (Persians), and Jeremiah 49:34-39 (Elamites).

In summary, it is important to note that clear territorial distinctions existed between Elam and Persia when Jeremiah and Ezekiel prophesied. It is doubtful that all of modern-day Iran participates in the Magog invasion of Israel in Ezekiel 38. More likely is the possibility that only northern Iran joins in with Magog (Russia); otherwise Ezekiel should have included both Persia and Elam in his prophecy. Since Elam is not part of Ezekiel 38, it suggests that Jeremiah’s prophecy regarding Elam is a separate prophetic event. If Elam is struck at the foremost of its might prior to the fulfillment of Ezekiel 38, then this could be the reason Ezekiel omitted Elam from his prophecy.

Moreover, Jeremiah 49:34-39 introduces nine related prophecies concerning Elam. This study has only discussed two of them. These nine prophecies are identified in the image, and are thoroughly explained in the commentary portion of Revelation Road. The pertinent commentary also presents a brief history lesson concerning Elam, and explains why Jeremiah’s Elamite prophecies still remain unfulfilled.

In the final analysis, Jeremiah’s nine prophecies of Elam may be simply adding more details to Ezekiel’s Gog of Magog invasion; but I doubt it.
http://www.prophecydepot.net/2012/th...0%93-part-two/

[Scotty066]

IMHO it is not hard to see a scenario where by Iran is excluded. I have said before, Israel knows it must deal with Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria etc before or at the same time it hits Irans nuclear sites. I see a scenario where Israel launches a massive, lighting invasion of all the Psalm 83 area at the same time blasting Irans nuclear sites. Iran will not be able to respond right away. Russian, Iran and Turkey seething with rage than launch the God/Magog Invasion in retaliation.

I have read many times where Israel's military leaders are repeatedly saying in the last few months that an invasion of Gaza and Southern Lebannon is only a matter of timing. That they must deal with these problem areas once and for all. They won't make the mistake, like last time, and stop there attack and withdraw.(They stoped last time partly because of pressure from the West). They won't stop at Southern Lebannon or Gaza. They will continue on to all the the Psalm 83 geographic area. Clean out the entire area. They know the world wide implications of an attack, economically, politically, and militarily. That is why they are hesitating, looking for an alternative, of which there are none.

They know that a just a strike on Iran alone will cause world wide economic problems. Since it will also, mostly likely, cause a backlash from the West against them, they may feel they might as well deal with all the issues at once(Iran, Syria, hezollah, Hamas, etc... They may feel they will not get a second chance.

The are planning it right now as we speak.

[RandallB]

...

They know that a just a strike on Iran alone will cause world wide economic problems. Since it will also, mostly likely, cause a backlash from the West against them, they may feel they might as well deal with all the issues at once(Iran, Syria, hezollah, Hamas, etc... They may feel they will not get a second chance.

The are planning it right now as we speak.

They will only get one chance at it. The world condemnation will be so intense and the sanctions will be crippling unless they totally win everything. Even then, Ez 38 will be the world's answer.

[dleader]

These were phenomenal articles and the Jeremiah 49 prophecies regarding Elam do give another perspective that is very plausible. I am glad I read this.

[Wally]

And with populations of Northern Iraq, and Eqypt a bit more friendly to Western powers (christian - humanist),

It seeds the prophecies of Egypt and Assyria's future faith in the God of Israel.

It also removes some of the power - support when these nations choose to attack Israel.

[Sydney Spider]

Fascinating stuff!

I can imagine that if Israel does destroy Iran's nuclear facilities, an incensed Iran will look to its proxies and local allies to exact revenge. After they are defeated by Israel in this Psalm 83 war, a totally outraged Iran will look further afield to more distant allies to join with it in an even bigger war against Israel. Ezekiel 38 indicates that Gog is the leader of that campaign, but as the most powerful member of the line-up, that is to be expected. Since the passage indicates a "hook in the jaw", I'm wondering whether Iran dangles some sort of carrot on a stick in front of Russia to draw its army down from the north.

Or maybe I'm simply giving Iran too much credit for rounding up Israel's enemies against her in these two wars.

[HeIsEnough]

Since the passage indicates a "hook in the jaw", I'm wondering whether Iran dangles some sort of carrot on a stick in front of Russia to draw its army down from the north.

A warm water port perhaps. Problem is, Russia likes to take all it can get, so Iran may end up a lot smaller.

[Gideon300]

I heard Mark Hitchcock on Jan Markell's show this past week addressing Psalm 83. He notes that it is not a prophecy; it is a prayer. Some reasons for this are that no prophets mention it, nor are any indications of when. I am getting his book to see his full argument.

My basic question has been, why in the Gog/Magog attack, are the nearby nations around Israel not mentioned? Bill Salus' answer has been (and I followed him on this) that these nations are defeated in a war, and then Iran comes in later.

But I wonder, with the Arab 'Spring', these nations are in chaos, and while the MB would like to attack Israel, they don't really have the capability right now. So maybe they just cheer on. I don't know; I want to see what Mark Hitchcock says in his book.

Yes, this has been said before. While he is correct that this is an intercessory prayer the problem with stating this scripture is not prophecy lies with the fact that it provides fulfilled prophecy. Take a look at the nations listed and the fact that they form a confederacy to destroy Israel:

· Edom - Palestinians
· The Ishmaelites - Saudis, Possibly Yemen
· Moab - Jordan
· The Hagrites - Possibly Egypt, Sinai
· Gebal - Lebanon
· Ammon - Jordan
· Amalek - Sinai
· Philistia - Palestinians (Hamas)
· Tyre - Lebanon (Hezbollah)
· Assyria - Syria and Northern Iraq

Now look at the founding nations of the Arab League which formed in 1945 to counteract the growing push for a Jewish state:

The Arab League was founded in Cairo in 1945 by Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Transjordan (Jordan, as of 1950), and Yemen.

http://www.arab.de/arabinfo/league.htm

Trans-Jordan and Syria in 1945 contained the area we now know as "Palestine."

So, we see a very very similar list here.

Also, Isaiah 17 is the fulfillment to the prayer in Psalm 83.

Back to this article:

Is it possible that Israel strikes Iran and the Gog Magog force invades to retaliate Israel's attack. If you pull up the Drudge Report today you will see Russia warning Israel against attacking Iran.

[Tall Timbers]

IMHO it is not hard to see a scenario where by Iran is excluded. I have said before, Israel knows it must deal with Hezbollah, Hamas, Syria etc before or at the same time it hits Irans nuclear sites. I see a scenario where Israel launches a massive, lighting invasion of all the Psalm 83 area at the same time blasting Irans nuclear sites. Iran will not be able to respond right away. Russian, Iran and Turkey seething with rage than launch the God/Magog Invasion in retaliation.

I see it similarly to the above, except I could see Israel focusing on it's border nation problem first and separately from Iran. Successful, but weakened, an emboldened Gog/Magog coalition expects to have a fairly easy time in their invasion of Israel, which is done for spoils, and as always, to wipe God's people off the face of the earth. The happy ending then comes about as the Eze 38 invastion occurs, and God Himself takes care of the nuclear problem.

[Joseph The Carpenter]

I think Iran will send their proxy armies to attack ISRAEL when they think ISRAEL is about to attack their nuclear plants.
I do think ISRAEL can fight them both because Psalm 83 will be mostly a ground war and an attack on Iran's nuclear plants will be an air war.

We now have Assad loosing power by minute, so what will he do? Send a WMD missile to ISRAEL or nuke his own country?

From Ezekiel we know Persia joins with Russia. To me this says Iran does not have a nuclear bomb because they would only need one or two to wipe out ISRAEL.

So it comes down to does ISRAEL do it alone or with America?

Will Hillary convince President Obama America will be blamed anyway and most likely drawn into the conflict in order to keep the oil flowing?
Not to mention it will help his poll numbers.

[Tall Timbers]

From Ezekiel we know Persia joins with Russia. To me this says Iran does not have a nuclear bomb because they would only need one or two to wipe out ISRAEL.

The coalition could use Russia's nuclear bombs as well, but since they're hunting for spoils, they wouldn't want to nuke the territory then intend to possess after the fighting is done. So, I figure Iran could conceivably have nukes when Eze 38 goes down.

[Gideon300]

I think Iran will send their proxy armies to attack ISRAEL when they think ISRAEL is about to attack their nuclear plants.
I do think ISRAEL can fight them both because Psalm 83 will be mostly a ground war and an attack on Iran's nuclear plants will be an air war.

We now have Assad loosing power by minute, so what will he do? Send a WMD missile to ISRAEL or nuke his own country?

From Ezekiel we know Persia joins with Russia. To me this says Iran does not have a nuclear bomb because they would only need one or two to wipe out ISRAEL.

So it comes down to does ISRAEL do it alone or with America?

Will Hillary convince President Obama America will be blamed anyway and most likely drawn into the conflict in order to keep the oil flowing?
Not to mention it will help his poll numbers.

Russia could easily nuke Israel too, but would be strange to invade with a nuke....

I've always found this part of Ezekiel 39 interesting:

14 “They will set apart men regularly employed, with the help of a search party,[c] to pass through the land and bury those bodies remaining on the ground, in order to cleanse it. At the end of seven months they will make a search. 15 The search party will pass through the land; and when anyone sees a man’s bone, he shall set up a marker by it, till the buriers have buried it in the Valley of Hamon Gog.

US military guidelines for burying the dead contaminated from nuclear, chemical, or biological states the body is marked and specialized hazmat teams will actually dispose of the bodies.

[Joseph The Carpenter]

Russia wants the spoils and Iran being musilm wants to kill all JEWS.

[Gideon300]

Russia wants the spoils and Iran being musilm wants to kill all JEWS.

Yep, agreed.

With the burial described in Ezekiel 39 I do think there is chemical, biological, or even nuclear material involved with some of the clean-up.

[RandallB]

I think Iran will send their proxy armies to attack ISRAEL when they think ISRAEL is about to attack their nuclear plants.
I do think ISRAEL can fight them both because Psalm 83 will be mostly a ground war and an attack on Iran's nuclear plants will be an air war.

We now have Assad loosing power by minute, so what will he do? Send a WMD missile to ISRAEL or nuke his own country?

From Ezekiel we know Persia joins with Russia. To me this says Iran does not have a nuclear bomb because they would only need one or two to wipe out ISRAEL.

So it comes down to does ISRAEL do it alone or with America?

Will Hillary convince President Obama America will be blamed anyway and most likely drawn into the conflict in order to keep the oil flowing?
Not to mention it will help his poll numbers.

I think that you have outlined a very plausible scenario. I do feel that the Jer 49 attack on Elam may be keeping the Persia part of Iran busy while they send in their proxies.

One possible path for Obama to support Israel might be that:
1) Israel responds to Gaza missiles (Therefore just defense & USA can support)
2) then Iran makes threatening moves - Israel hits Elam et al
3) Ps 83/Is 17 in short order with USA still in limited support due to "defensive" reasons.

I do believe that IDF will accomplish the majority of the battles especially against Iran/Elam. Our carriers and ships will keep Russia at bay for the short term. We will probably participate in the missile defense of Israel -- another defensive move. Iran would probably try and close Hormuz and the USA may be dancing with them over that - further distracting them during the Ps 83 activities.