Kirk Cameron's "Monumental"

[OnceWasLost]

No one is questioning Kirk Cameron's salvation.
No one has said or even implied that Kirk Cameron will not go to heaven.


This seems to always happen in apostasy threads with famous teachers/preachers. Because a false doctrine is called out on someone many people love, everyone must be damning that person to hell.

Careful, unbiased reading is always a bonus.

[Steve53]

Careful, unbiased reading is always a bonus.

Judging from the replies so far, a lot of folks need to do just that.

[HeIsEnough]

"Here lies our hope. Faith in the humanist’s idealized man is dying. People are seeing through the “New Deal,’ the “Great Society,” and “the bridge to the twenty-first century.” They know America’s greatness taps into a much greater source than political slogans. Millions of parents and students are rediscovering the covenants of our forebears. They are learning the truths about God’s world and His rules for living in it. As parents train a generation in the unchanging Biblical principles of life, these young leaders of the future can rise up and offer real hope to restore the “holy cause of liberty.”

Building upon our inheritance, which requires knowing our true history, we can be a “city upon a hill” for the twenty-first century, becoming an example to other nations, rather than a reproach."

Great, swelling words, almost brings a tear to my eye.

Where is Jesus the Christ?

Where is the one who told us our country is far off, else His people would fight?

If anything, true believers are realizing more and more we've been sold a bill of goods, harkening us back to our founders, bring back camelot. That stuff is great, more power to ya, I'll vote for it, place it in front of me. I want the people of God to work for God's kingdom, preaching His gospel, thy kingdom come we pray. America is just not comparable, but I will vote.

The time is late, anyone who can be snatched out of this world, I pray he be taken quickly, and then the Lord takes us all even quicker.

.....for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Revelation 19:10)

[HeIsEnough]

It clearly says in the sticky titled Read Before Posting in Apostasy :

Forum: Apostasy

The falling away from true Bible Faith through un-biblical movements , Word of Faith, grace + works, seeker services, the Purpose Driven movement, Emerging/Emergent movement, Mysticism, Gnosticism, etc... And touch not our Rapture Ready Apostasy exposers!

[jonshaff]

I guess "Growing Pains" was a self-fulfilling Prophecy lol!

[Peace777]

I guess "Growing Pains" was a self-fulfilling Prophecy lol!

chuckle....

Some good ole comic relief

[jonshaff]

chuckle....

Some good ole comic relief

lol.....I thought it was funny (and witty)!

[Peace777]

It was . I know this is a very serious topic and I don't want to come across as minimizing it's importance. I just needed a little laugh amid all the serious doctrinal issues. This stuff can get really complicated. I do want to learn as much as possible and have learned a lot from everyone.

[jonshaff]

It was . I know this is a very serious topic and I don't want to come across as minimizing it's importance. I just needed a little laugh amid all the serious doctrinal issues. This stuff can get really complicated. I do want to learn as much as possible and have learned a lot from everyone.

I agree with cutting the tension (dissension?).

[jonshaff]

This comes to mind...

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

I find more often then not, misled doctrinal stances breeds, well bad doctrine; more so then bad eschatology breeds bad doctrine.

Knowing if we will be raptured pre trib or mid trib is definitely not as important as knowing who the "WHOSOEVER" is in "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that Whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life." John 3:16 (predestination vs. Free will)

I'm not saying promoting mid trib or post trib is okay, I'm just saying the simplicity of The Testimony of Jesus Christ gets drowned out by sub-points.

[OnceWasLost]

This comes to mind...

Romans 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

I find more often then not, misled doctrinal stances breeds, well bad doctrine; more so then bad eschatology breeds bad doctrine.

Knowing if we will be raptured pre trib or mid trib is definitely not as important as knowing who the "WHOSOEVER" is in "God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that Whosoever believeth on Him shall not perish but have ever lasting life." John 3:16 (predestination vs. Free will)

I'm not saying promoting mid trib or post trib is okay, I'm just saying the simplicity of The Testimony of Jesus Christ gets drowned out by sub-points.

If you believe the millennium is not literal, and you build the kingdom His imminent return and the urgency it fosters is gone. If you are of the hardcore dominionist types (bickle and all the signs and wonders crowd) Jesus can't return until they retake the lost dominion of Genesis 1:28 They have a less than serious view of Scripture and twist it into spiritualized/poetic/symbolic/allegorical pretzels.

Bad eschatology..... Bad doctrine.

That was the point.

[jonshaff]

If you believe the millennium is not literal, and you build the kingdom His imminent return and the urgency it fosters is gone. If you are of the hardcore dominionist types (bickle and all the signs and wonders crowd) Jesus can't return until they retake the lost dominion of Genesis 1:28 They have a less than serious view of Scripture and twist it into spiritualized/poetic/symbolic/allegorical pretzels.

Bad eschatology..... Bad doctrine.

That was the point.

I agree with you, but my point is that it goes FURTHER and DEEPER then bad eschatology.

Doctrinally, these people are being misled...therefore, are in err in their eschatology, when you get down to it.

Some where they are totally wrong in their doctrine, spewing over into their eschatology

[Poppycat]

I downloaded and listened to Brannon Howse podcasts and only caught up with this during the podcast dated 24th February (last Friday). He had extended an invite to Kirk to join the Monday (27th) program with Chris Pinto and Justin Peters to cover all that has been mentioned in previous posts. Does anyone know what was the outcome? Did Kirk take him up on his offer? I'm a bit behind, or rather itunes is

[NarrowRoad]

I downloaded and listened to Brannon Howse podcasts and only caught up with this during the podcast dated 24th February (last Friday). He had extended an invite to Kirk to join the Monday (27th) program with Chris Pinto and Justin Peters to cover all that has been mentioned in previous posts. Does anyone know what was the outcome? Did Kirk take him up on his offer? I'm a bit behind, or rather itunes is

He hasn't accepted the offer to be on Brannon's program, yet. Kirk's agent/publicist referred Brannon to the movie coming out in March.


NR

[HumbleBerean]

I downloaded and listened to Brannon Howse podcasts and only caught up with this during the podcast dated 24th February (last Friday). He had extended an invite to Kirk to join the Monday (27th) program with Chris Pinto and Justin Peters to cover all that has been mentioned in previous posts. Does anyone know what was the outcome? Did Kirk take him up on his offer? I'm a bit behind, or rather itunes is

Part 1 http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worl...pisodeid=20723
Part 2 http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worl...pisodeid=20733

His shows go up on his site a lot faster than itunes. So far Kirk has not taken Brannon up on his offer.

Btw, bunch of other great discernment ministries on main worldview weekend page
http://www.worldviewweekend.com/worldview-radio/

[Poppycat]

Thankyou both for your input will follow up on Worldview site. Usually wait for itunes just because I like to listen to my ipod at night (in bed) but I am intrigued by this issue

[NarrowRoad]

Thankyou both for your input will follow up on Worldview site. Usually wait for itunes just because I like to listen to my ipod at night (in bed) but I am intrigued by this issue

You're very welcome

NR

[Sandra17012]

I have been watching this thread for these last two days. This thread threw me for a loop, that has not happened for quite a while.

I spent over three years witnessing full time online because I felt led by the Lord to do so. While I am no longer witnessing full time like I was back then, I still keep my eyes open for evey chance I might get. I was thrown for many, many loops during these three years. I really knew almost nothing when I started, but I was saved, and God led me. I have learned so many, many different kinds of beliefs that it boggles my mind.

Two things I really want to share are these:
1. The foundation of one's faith and the outcome/end result of one's beliefs is like a mathmatical equation.
Salvation by faith alone+in Christ alone+and not of works=Pre-trib belief outcome.
Any time I have found a warped belief system there has always been a wrong factor in this equation.

2. Most people who have believed the Gospel and are saved don't read their Bibles, sad but true. These people can be led astray (not lost, but sidetracked) because they have never developed any discernment of their own.

There are some false teachers that are so subtle that it is hard to know if they are actually teaching falsely. I use my equation to help me identify these people. There are too many false belief systems to list all the "wrong" things. By using the equation you can identify false teaching without doing hours and hours of research. If needed you can always look for the particulars after diagnosing the symptoms.

There are false converts and true convers. It is very hard to know a false one from a true one. Only God can know for sure who is, and is not, saved.

Many false teachings like Kingdom Now and Word Of Faith are obviously and clearly wrong, but others are not so easy to spot.

It seems as if Ray and Kirk may be teaching Lordship Salvation. If they are then they are teaching works+faith, thus their foundation is wrong.

I have learned a lot from our moderators here at RR. I have given up on listening to several teachers whom I felt were rock solid. When our moderators say that something is wrong with a particular teaching I have learned to listen to them and check it out, even when it hurts. So far they have been right every single time. I feel that our moderators are a blessing from God.

I was very hurt when this came up about Kirk Cameron because he has always been one of my favorites. I always believed if anyone was rock solid, that Kirk Cameron and Ray Comfort were.

I could not understand why Kirk would make a movie about placing our efforts on saving our country when the "season" we are living in is literally "screaming at us". I felt Kirk should be telling us to use our efforts like never before to urgently spread the Gospel because the Lord is coming soon.

Being responsible Christians means that we never stop "working for the Lord" until we are "on the way up"! None of us believe in just resting on our laurels when we are sliding into an abyss. I don't know of any True Christian brother or sister who has this attitude. Kirks comment about how he views us was startling to me.

I have not seen any article or interview in the last couple of days where Kirk expresses an urgency for the Lords return, only an urgency for our nations "return", and quite frankly I just don't see that happening due to all of the factors involved. There is nothing wrong with wanting to try to help place our Country on a path of repentance....while "looking up" and urgently trying to get as many people as possible saved so they miss the horrors of the Tribulation. Focusing so intently on a "save our country" crusade without also including an urgent call for Salvation due to the Lord's soon return seems like a sidetrack.

I know that Kirk was in the Left Behind movies, but I have not been able to find one single article which explains what Kirk teaches about eschatology.

I believe his efforts on the "save our country" crusade could be better spent on a movie about the soon return of the Lord, and a need to be saved. We can learn a lot about people by what they spend their time on. Time is precious, it only takes a second of time for a lost person to die and end up in hell. I would think that someone who is watching for Christ's any minute return would be concentrating their efforts more on proclaiming the Gospel of Salvation to a lost and hurting world than to a movie about saving our country.

Maybe when the movie finally comes out, we will see that Kirk included an urgent call to Salvation within his movie due to the Lord's soon return, who knows. God does work in mysterious ways.

True Apostates are not saved. The Bible teaches that only those with His Spirit indwelling then are His. When the Bible describes the false sheep it is clear that they profess His Name but do not have His Spirit. Jesus says He will tell them, "I never knew you". If they had EVER been saved, then Jesus would have known them. Jude 1:19

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit

We cannot be Holy because only He is holy. Only after the rapture, when we recieve our Glorified bodies will we be holy. Until then it is Christ's Holiness which covers us.

The only work God requires is to believe upon His Son:
“Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.”

John 6:29

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Ray Comfort:

That's why you need the Savior. Merely being sorry for your sins, or confessing them to God won't help you. You must turn from sin (repent), and your faith must be in Jesus Christ alone

Lordship Salvation is legalistic. It confuses Salvation with sanctification.

I will wait and see what Kirk has to say. I will give Kirk the benefit of the doubt, but in the meantime, I won't be recommending the movie to anyone. I do believe that Kirk is a brother in Christ, and I will pray for God's help to put him back on the right track, if indeed he has slipped off.

I want to thank our moderators personally. You guys are a blessing to me.

[HumbleBerean]

I was reading in 1 Kings today and specifically in chapter 11:4-8 where Solomon turns from the living God to false gods.

A man, chosen of God, for so long followed the commandments and statutes of God, who had the whole world in his hands and was blessed more than anyone in all of history, chose to listen to the call of his worldly wives and turned his heart from what God wanted to what the world said was good.

If it happened to Solomon, and others in the bible, then we shouldnt be surprised when well known, famous pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc would turn their hearts and follow worldy wisdom.

If Kirk Cameron has turned to the world, and if John Piper wants to please the masses and stand with Rick Warren, it only proves the point we are to follow the Lord and His ways as revealed in His Word instead of following man, no matter their celebrity.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

[Sandra17012]

I was reading in 1 Kings today and specifically in chapter 11:4-8 where Solomon turns from the living God to false gods.

A man, chosen of God, for so long followed the commandments and statutes of God, who had the whole world in his hands and was blessed more than anyone in all of history, chose to listen to the call of his worldly wives and turned his heart from what God wanted to what the world said was good.

If it happened to Solomon, and others in the bible, then we shouldnt be surprised when well known, famous pastors, teachers, evangelists, etc would turn their hearts and follow worldy wisdom.

If Kirk Cameron has turned to the world, and if John Piper wants to please the masses and stand with Rick Warren, it only proves the point we are to follow the Lord and His ways as revealed in His Word instead of following man, no matter their celebrity.

As for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.

Amen.