Kirk Cameron's "Monumental"

[jonshaff]

Few Christians can claim they are a child of Abraham, we (And most every American Christian) are Gentile so God's covenant with Abraham remains to Abraham and his descendents.

Romans 4:16-18

Please help me see how your point isn't a contradiction in light of this text. Thanks

[OnceWasLost]

Few Christians can claim they are a child of Abraham, we (And most every American Christian) are Gentile so God's covenant with Abraham remains to Abraham and his descendents.

Romans 4:16-18

Please help me see how your point isn't a contradiction in light of this text. Thanks

As a covenant people (Jew vs. Gentile) The Genesis passage is pretty clear it was a national promise, not to those grafted in.

[jonshaff]

I understand the separation between Israel and all other nations regarding prophecy and covenants...I'm just talking about the separation you made between "actual Christian descendents of Abraham."

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[OnceWasLost]

I understand the separation between Israel and all other nations regarding prophecy and covenants...I'm just talking about the separation you made between "actual Christian dependents of Abraham."

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

As with the Romans passage the issue is grace by faith and not works. Paul is covering salvation matters and not nationalistic ones. As Abraham believed by faith, so do we and it is accounted to us a righteousness as it was with him, since he pre dates The Law. There is a very real distinction between Israel and the church, given the discussion here, the very same passages you showed are ones Replacement advocates like.

Paul's passages you cited deal with faith while Genesis deals strictly with a national covenant, which is still in force (Gen 12) and does not extend to anyone other than Israel.

[jonshaff]

See my ETA

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[OnceWasLost]

Galatians 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Faith being the operational word here.

Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Abraham = Faith

Moses = Law

Christian = Faith

We have come full circle, It began with faith, as Abraham trusted God's promise. The Law was given to Moses to demonstrate, in a codified way, man's offense before a Holy God. We walk by faith, post Law, and that faith in Jesus leads to Righteousness imputed to us as it was to Abraham. Again, faith as Abraham had it was not national, it is spiritual, and that's the entire context of Paul's writing. Read Paul's pedigree in Philippians 3 though he was a covenant Jew, he identifies with something else, those nationalistic things were lost to him.

[jonshaff]

I understand and agree 100% with what you say...I'm just puzzled why you made mention of few Christians being descendants of Abraham like there is some sort of relevancy involved

[OnceWasLost]

I understand and agree 100% with what you say...I'm just puzzled why you made mention of few Christians being descendants of Abraham like there is some sort of relevancy involved

Hugely relevant to many who take movies like this, or books like Harbinger, and try to see the connection to repentance as in II Chronicles 7, for example, and then apply them to the church.

The Replacement Theology people do that kind of connect the dots exegesis all the time. I have heard them do it using projects like what Kirk has produced in times past. They do it with David Barton and Wallbuilders material constantly, so much so he is accused of being Replacement and Dominionist all the time.

That was the only point.

[jonshaff]

Hugely relevant to many who take movies like this, or books like Harbinger, and try to see the connection to repentance as in II Chronicles 7, for example, and then apply them to the church.

The Replacement Theology people do that kind of connect the dots exegesis all the time. I have heard them do it using projects like what Kirk has produced in times past. They do it with David Barton and Wallbuilders material constantly, so much so he is accused of being Replacement and Dominionist all the time.

That was the only point.

I'm with you know, thanks for bearing with me. I see exactly what you mean. I appreciate you explaining your point.

[OnceWasLost]

I'm with you know, thanks for bearing with me. I see exactly what you mean. I appreciate you explaining your point.

More than welcome sir.

[arkprophecy]

Very interested to know:

Does anyone have a link to statements Kirk Cameron has made about Bible prophecy?