Kirk Cameron's "Monumental"

[HumbleBerean]

I am at the very least disturbed by Kirks actions and have been trying to put everything together. Its not passing the smell test. Kirk has spent the last year and a half working on this project and his rallying cry to reclaim America is...a monument built by masons? Cant help but think of the Tower of Babel. I truly hope this is a fantastic movie with a strong, clear gospel message. He made a statement and put it on facebook after catching some heat for going on Beck show. Skim through some of the comments. If nothing else this has caused a lot of confusion among people who follow Kirk Cameron. Many on there are claiming Mormons are Christians and many Mormons are posting with a lot in agreement with them. Red flags keep flying up for me.

Brannon Howse talks about Kirk and the monument.....
http://worldviewweekend.com/worldvie...articleid=8031

[iSong6:3]

That is how the trailer came across to me. I think people should see it before condemning it for what "might" be in it.

I am surprised though, I have not seen Kirk Cameron do bad stuff or do unscriptural teachings, so I am not sure what the automatic assumption of this is bad and apostasy is about.

I explained it above your post.

I think he's a Calvinist, so he's probably not Dispensational and therefore is not looking for a pre-Trib Rapture.

We've had many long discussions here about the danger of Christians linking arms with non-Christians like Beck. We are powered with the Holy Spirit, our *weapons* of warfare are different than the world's.

The reason this thread was moved to Apostasy is for those reasons.

[iSong6:3]

...Brannon Howse talks about Kirk and the monument.....
http://worldviewweekend.com/worldvie...articleid=8031

Wow, I've always respected Howse's discernment and this little bit at the end of the article hit me particularly hard:

Please join me in praying that Christians will be discerning and not fall into the snare of Americanism and mix the gospel with the message or motive of "reclaiming America." Pray that fear for our nation's future does not cause the church to compromise but that we recommit our time and energy to the proclamation of the gospel and place our trust in God's sovereignty.

Amen, and praying...

[HumbleBerean]

Wow, I've always respected Howse's discernment and this little bit at the end of the article hit me particularly hard:

Please join me in praying that Christians will be discerning and not fall into the snare of Americanism and mix the gospel with the message or motive of "reclaiming America." Pray that fear for our nation's future does not cause the church to compromise but that we recommit our time and energy to the proclamation of the gospel and place our trust in God's sovereignty.

Amen, and praying...

+1

[JackieJ2]

Agreeing with Brannon. He cares deeply for Kirk. But I will watch the movie. If the gospel does not appear in it then I know there is something wrong. But I've never known Kirk not to give the gospel wherever he is. So will keep in prayer and wait for the movie.

[Praying]

That is how the trailer came across to me. I think people should see it before condemning it for what "might" be in it.

I am surprised though, I have not seen Kirk Cameron do bad stuff or do unscriptural teachings, so I am not sure what the automatic assumption of this is bad and apostasy is about.

I'm with you on that. I am saddened and shocked that we would categorize a brother in Christ under apostasy because he had an opportunity to reach millions of people to the glory of Christ. G-d uses all types of people, even those who are evil (not that I believe Glenn Beck is evil) to His glory at times, and to do His work. Sometimes they don't even know it.
Most all of us work with with non-Christians, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc. Are we supposed to quit our jobs or just not work with them on anything?
I do not see the harm in anything Kirk did by going on Glenn Beck's program. He reached a lot of people, and the only other alternative is to shut ourselves up in our homes and not talk or work with anyone, lest we be accused of apostasy for having lunch with a Mormon.

[jumpmaster]

I just watched the Glenn Beck video.

I have great respect for Kirk Cameron but his attack on Bible Prophecy and end time events that are happening now is disheartening and makes me wonder does he really want Jesus to come back to this planet and rule from Jerusalem.

He says to prepare our children for the long term, as if Jesus is not coming soon, the Tribulation is not coming soon, the Battles of Gog/MaGog and Armageddon are not looming on the horizone, the mark of the beast is not being set up, the antichrist kingdom is not coming and all things continue as they have since the fathers fell asleep.

Kirk, you need to die to this world system and tell our Lord, "not my will but Thine be done".

Two words for you, Kirk, "COME OUT!"

Jumpmaster

[Praying]

With all do respect, that was a very small part of the movie and it was taken out of context. There is a website for this show, and more videos of him speaking recently at some churches right after the trailer. Please, .....be sure of what you are saying about a brother in Christ before making these accusations. It hurts me personally, when brothers and sisters in Christ make negative assumptions about another brother or sister without having all the facts.

[iSong6:3]

I'm with you on that. I am saddened and shocked that we would categorize a brother in Christ under apostasy because he had an opportunity to reach millions of people to the glory of Christ. G-d uses all types of people, even those who are evil (not that I believe Glenn Beck is evil) to His glory at times, and to do His work. Sometimes they don't even know it.
Most all of us work with with non-Christians, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc. Are we supposed to quit our jobs or just not work with them on anything?
I do not see the harm in anything Kirk did by going on Glenn Beck's program. He reached a lot of people, and the only other alternative is to shut ourselves up in our homes and not talk or work with anyone, lest we be accused of apostasy for having lunch with a Mormon.

Please also watch your own words against the brothers and sisters here.

As was mentioned, we have had much experience with this in the several threads on Glenn Beck and the ecumenical prayers with John Hagee for the cause of *patriotism*. This is just another, it may be a new issue for some but it's not for the rest of us.

No one is saying quit your jobs if non-Christians are involved, stop that sort of charge, it's just too ridiculous.

If you don't understand the issues, ask, don't hurl out silliness like this.

It hurts me personally, when brothers and sisters in Christ make negative assumptions about another brother or sister without having all the facts.

It hurts everyone when this is done, on both sides of this issue. Let's ratchet the tone the thread has already taken and discuss it like the brothers and sisters in Jesus we are.

[HeIsEnough]

I'm with you on that. I am saddened and shocked that we would categorize a brother in Christ under apostasy because he had an opportunity to reach millions of people to the glory of Christ. G-d uses all types of people, even those who are evil (not that I believe Glenn Beck is evil) to His glory at times, and to do His work. Sometimes they don't even know it.
Most all of us work with with non-Christians, Mormons, Jehovah's witnesses, etc. Are we supposed to quit our jobs or just not work with them on anything?
I do not see the harm in anything Kirk did by going on Glenn Beck's program. He reached a lot of people, and the only other alternative is to shut ourselves up in our homes and not talk or work with anyone, lest we be accused of apostasy for having lunch with a Mormon.

Do you really think people have a problem just because he was "having lunch with a Mormon?" If you do then just move along, it'll only hurt your feelings and you won't even understand why. Don't talk down to the people in this thread.

Let's ratchet the tone the thread has already taken and discuss it like the brothers and sisters in Jesus we are.

We need to get beyond the "cult of personality" Mr. Cameron is just another believer. It is the gospel and the warning which matters, and it sounds like he doesn't take the warning seriously. People have every right to expect him to, and be upset when he does not, and it even works against the knowledge of prophecy. Thats a problem, even if you do not think it is.

[Barachem]

I found this nice gem of what Kirk Cameron unconsciously did.
It's fresh from the first video linked on the first page.
Look for yourself:



The satanic horns with his hands, just for a short time.
Together with the darkened right half of his face, i believe that there might be more to this Monumental movie than is presented on the surface.
And yes, i do believe Kirk is moving towards dominionism and also towards prepping and maybe leading in into a second US civil war, just like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and many conservative voices and conspiracy nuts unknowingly or purposefully push towards.
While i do believe that this is orchestrated by the very forces the conspiracy nuts want to combat, the solution is simple: Pray for your country and spread the gospel.
That's the solution satan and thus all who swear allegiance to him or people who serve him actually fear.

[iSong6:3]

Barachem - I don't for a minute think Cameron is even unconsciously satanic.

Just because his hands made that form doesn't mean he's either satanic or showing allegiance to whatever Texas universities uses that sign for its football team, the Longhorns, is it? I'm confident he didn't use that bad lighting to send any *secret messages* out too.

I do believe he is thinking in a Dominionist way, about *reclaiming* this land for God...Jesus said His Kingdom was not of this world...yet.

The only nation God has a covenant with is Israel. God raises and lowers nations for His reasons.

[HumbleBerean]

I found this nice gem of what Kirk Cameron unconsciously did.
It's fresh from the first video linked on the first page.
Look for yourself:



The satanic horns with his hands, just for a short time.
Together with the darkened right half of his face, i believe that there might be more to this Monumental movie than is presented on the surface.
And yes, i do believe Kirk is moving towards dominionism and also towards prepping and maybe leading in into a second US civil war, just like Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and many conservative voices and conspiracy nuts unknowingly or purposefully push towards.
While i do believe that this is orchestrated by the very forces the conspiracy nuts want to combat, the solution is simple: Pray for your country and spread the gospel.
That's the solution satan and thus all who swear allegiance to him or people who serve him actually fear.

I dont even know what to do with that. Its creepy.

If you only watched the 2:41 trailer to the movie it seems quite tame and it even looks like a movie I would see and I might be for the many of the things Kirk mentions.

When Kirk went on Becks show I dont think it was the trailer that they showed. It was the first 5 minutes of the movie itself which takes a much different tone than the trailer especially as he rips into people who take a pretrib position.

[Jacinth]

I remember a couple years ago, Brannon Howse pointed out to Kirk why it was a baaad idea to stand with Beck at his ecumenical "Honor" rally, and I thought 'Oh, good I'm glad Kirk is standing right on this issue.'

I have yet to watch the claims that he is against dispensational prophecy, though I plan to shortly.
Kind of strange to me, I always thought Kirk was more of a John MacArthur leaner; and though Calvinistic, at least MacArthur believes in the pre-trib Rapture/literal Tribulation/Millenium.
This sure is a bummer

[Peace777]

Here's my take on it. I don't know that much about Kirk Cameron except the positive stuff I've glimpsed of him evangalizing to people on the streets, etc.

At 10:25 into the link on the first post, he starts lumping 'us' into a catagory. He says basically that 'we' think it's good that things are getting bad because it's a sign that Jesus is coming soon.

I believe alot of people have this misunderstanding about' our' position. It's not that we think it's great that things are getting so bad. We just see it as a sign we are near the end, and that (the fact that Jesus is returning soon) is encouraging. It's a subtle distinction, but I am not happy that things are so bad as his statements imply (and others who misunderstand my position).

I also do not agree that 'we' are sitting on the sidelines and doing nothing about the bad things in this world. Our 'type' is still active in this country and I think many of us are trying to change things in the best way we know how.

I'm not sure what he means around the 12:30 mark in the interview. He said something else about the church but I didn't get it.

I'm not saying he is a bad person or anything, but I very much disagree with what he says around 10:25 in the interview. (I also think the link to the interview has been replaced as I cannot go back and get to the interview I saw earlier)

[iSong6:3]

I believe alot of people have this misunderstanding about' our' position. It's not that I think it's great that things are getting so bad. I just see it as a sign we are near the end. It's a subtle distinction, but I am not happy that things are so bad.

That's an essential distinction, one seemingly lost on him. Not all people who believe in Bible prophecy as we do are "putting our heads down" as he says, and "waiting for the end of the world."

I'm not sure what he means around the 12:30 mark in the interview. He said something else about the church but I didn't get it.

About the antichrists and the man who was "God on earth"? I think he meant the Catholic church with the pope. The whole world has an antichrist spirit, don't know what his point was with that.

I'm not saying he is a bad person or anything, but I very much disagree with what he says around 10:25 in the interview. He put us in the same catagory as moral corruption, homosexuality, and other negative things wrong with this country.

[iSong6:3]

I was troubled also with their insisting that we can turn the world around, that there's a *great awakening* ahead. That if we just go back to the thoughts of our ancestors, we can turn back the prophetic clock, the end of history as we know it is not how the Bible said it would be - in fact, we're wrong for thinking in terms of an *end* at all.

Someone is not doing as Jesus commanded and recognizing the signs of the times

Here's the web site of that Marshall guy who was with Cameron, whose brainchild this is. This tells us all we need to know: http://www.worldhistoryinstitute.com/about/

[HeIsEnough]

We keep saying to each other that prophecy is a secondary issue. Yet we can see it instantly becomes primary when certain actions are taken because of prophetic beliefs. Domionists would have us running around like chickens, polishing up this excrement, otherwise known as the world. For someone such as this man, known for evangelism, he should already know what his role is, preach the gospel, pull them out of this world. Instead, whether his goal changed or not, whether he would verbally tell you his goal changed or not, his actions are what I will go by. They indicate no understanding of prophecy, he will just go about what seems right to him. All because of poor doctrine. Don't ever let anyone tell you doctrine is not important, it undergirds your actions, fuels your duties.

[iSong6:3]

We keep saying to each other that prophecy is a secondary issue. Yet we can see it instantly becomes primary when certain actions are taken because of prophetic beliefs. Domionists would have us running around like chickens, polishing up this excrement, otherwise known as the world. For someone such as this man, known for evangelism, he should already know what his role is, preach the gospel, pull them out of this world. Instead, whether his goal changed or not, whether he would verbally tell you his goal changed or not, his actions are what I will go by. They indicate no understanding of prophecy, he will just go about what seems right to him. All because of poor doctrine. Don't ever let anyone tell you doctrine is not important, it undergirds your actions, fuels your duties.

Wow, HIE, as always - Excellent!

[OnceWasLost]

Funny, if Cameron is a classic Calvinist non dispie, then he like his eschatologically challenged brethren look forward to a Kingdom of their own making. Here is why it's funny, the Calvinists I have encountered are so prideful in there grasp of Soteriology that those who dare disagree with them are unlearned, simplistic rubes. Yet, these are the are the same ones who can't figure out The Bible clearly teaches a Pre Trib position.

Quite the dilemma, eh?

Notice I did use if, so as not to open the door to flame.