The Rapture a much hated doctrine

[TheLordismytreasure]

I haven't read every part of this thread, but here is one YT video I found very good.. it is 4 parts, you can follow the YT trail if you like.. Here is part 1.. If this is an unapproved preacher, please delete, disregard and accept my appologies.. I really like Michael Hoggard myself.. not sure what you guy think.

[Barachem]

I am weary of Micheal Hoggard, he teaches against a pre-trib rapture and places it somewhere within the first half of the 70th week.
He also is too preoccupied with the whole masonic, illuminati thing, talking too much about what the powers to be do behind closed doors.
He quotes too much out of Albert Pike's book Morals and Dogma for my taste and i believe he may be a planted agent.
He took (maybe even still takes) part in THAT Prophecy Club, gives heed to Gail Riplinger and Peter Ruckmann.
He's very KJVO and wrote a book called "The King James Code" and while interesting, his code and how he uses it to interpret the bible seem logical, but it somehow just feels wrong.
And there's one thing more that seems to give him away as not trustworthy.
I used to follow him fervently until i noticed something odd in his presentations.

As for the rapture being hated, i've only seen fellow christians hate on it and on us who hold dearly to it in a way that makes me wonder if they're actually brothers and sisters of ours.
I've never seen an unbeliever call us deluded, devilish and/or even unsaved just because we hold to the pre-trib pre-millennial rapture.
Unbelievers just mock us and the anti-theists just think we're dangerous because the believe we're gun-toting, backward fundamentalist hicks who'll believe anything, the rapture only gives them more fuel to see us as potential Waco-instigators.

[TheLordismytreasure]

I am weary of Micheal Hoggard, he teaches against a pre-trib rapture and places it somewhere within the first half of the 70th week.
He also is too preoccupied with the whole masonic, illuminati thing, talking too much about what the powers to be do behind closed doors.
He quotes too much out of Albert Pike's book Morals and Dogma for my taste and i believe he may be a planted agent.
He taking part in THAT Prophecy Club, gives heed to Gail Riplinger and Peter Ruckmann.
He's very KJVO and wrote a book called "The King James Code" and while interesting, his code and how he uses it to interpret the bible seem logical, but it somehow just feels wrong.
And there's one thing more that seems to give him away as not trustworthy.
I used to follow him fervently until i noticed something odd in his presentations.

As for the rapture being hated, i've only seen fellow christians hate on it and on us who hold dearly to it in a way that makes me wonder if they're actually brothers and sisters of ours.
I've never seen an unbeliever call us deluded, devilish and/or even unsaved just because we hold to the pre-trib pre-millennial rapture.
Unbelievers just mock us and the anti-theists just think we're dangerous because the believe we're gun-toting, backward fundamentalist hicks who'll believe anything, the rapture only gives them more fuel to see us as potential Waco-instigators.

Well, it is obvious that you did not listen to the whole video (maybe the first few minutes)... He is 100% pretrib and I totally agree with the KJV only issue... check my most recent post (click my screen name and see) and it will just give you a sample of the differences.. The Bible has been corrupted by other versions, gradually and subtly.... satan is very subtle.. As far as the other books you mentioned, he is only trying to educate and despises the written books for satan.... I will not argue, just state my position.. God bless you.. We are all striving for Truth and it is a constant work in progress..but we must continue to study the Word, the True Word of our Lord and Saviour.

[Sojouner]

What happens to a Christian who doesn't believe in the rapture, or doesn't want it to come in their life time. These Christians are not longing for His Appearing, and are hoping it won't come.

Will these types of people go in the Rapture? Can some Christians miss the Rapture because they are not watching and ready? Could unrepentant sin cause a person to miss the Rapture?

Just wondering.

[shane8353]

What happens to a Christian who doesn't believe in the rapture, or doesn't want it to come in their life time. These Christians are not longing for His Appearing, and are hoping it won't come.

Will these types of people go in the Rapture? Can some Christians miss the Rapture because they are not watching and ready? Could unrepentant sin cause a person to miss the Rapture?

Just wondering.

If they are truly saved they will go, they maybe will be a little surprised, but theyll go with us. My wife used to be the same way and she is saved. Her reasoning was she wanted to see our children grow up and see them have families of their own, but she has since finally come around and seen the signs of the times. They want to hold on to this earthly life which they should'nt cause the life to come will be googleplex times better than this one.

[MaranathaLJ]

Speaking of youtube and probably people in general it's not the rapture itself but the timing that is most debated.

Then confusion about the Tribulation...the reason for God's judgement/wrath vs the church getting a pass or somehow

enduring thru. That makes no sense to me because at the beginning of Revelation it says Jesus washed us in His blood.

The church has endured persecutions of various kinds and troubles already. Short of getting our new bodies we can't be

any more right with God than we already are.

The teaching in 1st Thessalonians 4:16 is clear enough and believe Paul tried to set everyone straight in 2nd Thessalonians

by breaking down the timeline of events. Still people struggle with the 2nd Coming of Jesus at the end and His meeting

believers in the air being two seperate events , the trumpet in 1st Thessalonians and Revelation being seperate/different.

Besides people's heart not being right and wanting Jesus to return at their convenience think it's an overall ignorance

of the bible as a whole and God's history in dealing with mankind. Scripture overwhelmingly supports the rapture happen-

ing before the Tribulation and then that time starts with Antichrist coming on the scene.

[TheLordismytreasure]

What happens to a Christian who doesn't believe in the rapture, or doesn't want it to come in their life time. These Christians are not longing for His Appearing, and are hoping it won't come.

Will these types of people go in the Rapture? Can some Christians miss the Rapture because they are not watching and ready? Could unrepentant sin cause a person to miss the Rapture?

Just wondering.

I believe all true Christians will go in the rapture.... maybe they will just not receive the crown of righteousness....

2 Timothy 4:6

5But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

6For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.

7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

[SoThankful]

Went to youtube briefly to see what people say about the rapture, and unless I did a search incorrectly, the only time I could really find much positive about the doctrine were from people posting responses to all the negative videos about it.

Needless to say, their theology (the video posters theology) is very weak.

Anyhow, just wanted to comment on what I saw.... LOTS and LOTS of videos about "that false doctrine of the rapture." Blew me away.

If I had any video equipment I'd post something positive about the rapture, but alas, just don't have it.

I think it's just another sign of how Satan hates it AND us, and trying to confuse people.

Wow, I was just talking to my wife about this last night. The sad thing is that there are a whole lot of, what I believe to be, true born again believers that are hostile to the pre-tribulation rapture. I was listening to a Christian radio show, TruNews, that I normally like listening to while I'm working because Rick Wyles, the host, always has interesting guests on, but he is vehemently against a pre-trib rapture and he's becoming more and more vocal about it.

He was reading something about the possibility of WWIII and that somehow if it occurred then it would make us that hold to the "fairy tale" of a pre-trib rapture look like fools. I think post-tribbers get the feeling that we do not believe we will ever have to face persecution or rough times. Well, I have news for people, go outside of the U.S., to the middle east and Africa, Christians are being murdered every single day. We may have to go through some rough times or another major war, but it does not negate our blessed hope. Unless one holds to replacement theology, I don't know how in the world they could possibly believe that God will make us go through His wrath on the earth. It has nothing to do with wanting to escape hard times, we are not meant for God's wrath, I don't know why people cannot grasp that.

[SoThankful]

If we are covered in the blood of the lamb (Jesus Christ) we are exempt from God's judgement/wrath (1 Thessalonians 5:9).

Amen, I don't know why it's so hard for them to grasp that. The Great Tribulation and tribulation are 2 different things entirely, we may have to go through various tribulations before the Lord pulls us out of here, but we simply are not meant for God's wrath.

[Prodigal Son]

My BIL is Catholic and he was taught not to read the Bible because the average person is not gifted to know what it says. The Priests and the Catholic hierarchy are the only ones gifted enough to understand it and they will instruct the parishioners on it's meaning. So sad!!

The rcc really hated the invention of the printing press.

[Buzzardhut]

The rcc really hated the invention of the printing press.

and Youtube

and forums!


all cults are exposed through media

[Patti311]

My BIL is Catholic and he was taught not to read the Bible because the average person is not gifted to know what it says. The Priests and the Catholic hierarchy are the only ones gifted enough to understand it and they will instruct the parishioners on it's meaning. So sad!!

Yep....I remember being taught that...I left the RCC when I was 30....went to a Catholic school for 8 years from 1-8 grade....it's amazing the brainwashing that I got. Looking back now, I'm surprised I could even hear that "still small voice" over all the "stuff" I was fed...but, so gratefully, I heard that voice and never turned back.

[TheLordismytreasure]

Wow, I was just talking to my wife about this last night. The sad thing is that there are a whole lot of, what I believe to be, true born again believers that are hostile to the pre-tribulation rapture. I was listening to a Christian radio show, TruNews, that I normally like listening to while I'm working because Rick Wyles, the host, always has interesting guests on, but he is vehemently against a pre-trib rapture and he's becoming more and more vocal about it.

He was reading something about the possibility of WWIII and that somehow if it occurred then it would make us that hold to the "fairy tale" of a pre-trib rapture look like fools. I think post-tribbers get the feeling that we do not believe we will ever have to face persecution or rough times. Well, I have news for people, go outside of the U.S., to the middle east and Africa, Christians are being murdered every single day. We may have to go through some rough times or another major war, but it does not negate our blessed hope. Unless one holds to replacement theology, I don't know how in the world they could possibly believe that God will make us go through His wrath on the earth. It has nothing to do with wanting to escape hard times, we are not meant for God's wrath, I don't know why people cannot grasp that.

Sometimes, post-tribbers can be downright nasty and mean... many call the pretrib "satans lie".... and are very stubborn about it..

[Buzzardhut]

Sometimes, post-tribbers can be downright nasty and mean... many call the pretrib "satans lie".... and are very stubborn about it..

and they call it a "secret Rapture" there is no secret about it, the world is well aware of it, just not when.

[Praying]

Amen, I don't know why it's so hard for them to grasp that. The Great Tribulation and tribulation are 2 different things entirely, we may have to go through various tribulations before the Lord pulls us out of here, but we simply are not meant for God's wrath.

Amen. I don't understand how people, especially Christians can believe that we would be subject to God's wrath either. Yes, many of us will face many hardships and various tribulations here on earth before the rapture and then some may not. I am amazed though at how many Christians believe that we will have to experience at least the first part of the tribulation before the rapture of the church occurs, and how many do not want the rapture to happen in their lifetime at all. How anyone can look at what is happening in our world today, and want to continue to be here, and want their children and grandchildren to have to live through all of this is beyond me. I for one an ready to go home, - like yesterday already! This world is not my home, and there is nothing here for me. I want to go home.

[SoThankful]

Amen. I don't understand how people, especially Christians can believe that we would be subject to God's wrath either. Yes, many of us will face many hardships and various tribulations here on earth before the rapture and then some may not. I am amazed though at how many Christians believe that we will have to experience at least the first part of the tribulation before the rapture of the church occurs, and how many do not want the rapture to happen in their lifetime at all. How anyone can look at what is happening in our world today, and want to continue to be here, and want their children and grandchildren to have to live through all of this is beyond me. I for one an ready to go home, - like yesterday already! This world is not my home, and there is nothing here for me. I want to go home.

You're telling me, I pray every morning that today would be the day. Sure the economy is horrible, we have terrorist and war threats, etc, but what makes me sicker than anything is the blatant mocking of God that has overtaken our society. Whether it be having a man in the Oval Office that believes it's OK to kill a baby that survives an abortion, these states legalizing "gay marriage", people like Bill Maher blaspheming and making fun of Jesus, or removing God's name from our nation. They can have this place, I have no desire to be here any longer.

[Sydney Spider]

Amen. I don't understand how people, especially Christians can believe that we would be subject to God's wrath either. Yes, many of us will face many hardships and various tribulations here on earth before the rapture and then some may not. I am amazed though at how many Christians believe that we will have to experience at least the first part of the tribulation before the rapture of the church occurs, and how many do not want the rapture to happen in their lifetime at all. How anyone can look at what is happening in our world today, and want to continue to be here, and want their children and grandchildren to have to live through all of this is beyond me. I for one an ready to go home, - like yesterday already! This world is not my home, and there is nothing here for me. I want to go home.

Well, here's a thought....the church is so relatively lukewarm these days in the western countries that if it had to go through half or all of the Tribulation, how many of its members do you think would stand for any length of time under the horrendous persecution? It's just as well that every single one (who is saved but lukewarm) will escape this future in the Rapture because I believe that so many would otherwise fall by the wayside.

And on the other hand, lots of those fence-sitters who aren't yet saved....they are the ones who will become Trib Saints and bravely die a martyr's death.

[Buzzardhut]

Well, here's a thought....the church is so relatively lukewarm these days in the western countries that if it had to go through half or all of the Tribulation, how many of its members do you think would stand for any length of time under the horrendous persecution? It's just as well that every single one (who is saved but lukewarm) will escape this future in the Rapture because I believe that so many would otherwise fall by the wayside.

The lukewarm local church with their false gospel seeker teachings and lukewarm members and false conversions are what's slowing down evangelism causing Jesus to tarry until the certain amount of church members are fulfilled.

And on the other hand, lots of those fence-sitters who aren't yet saved....they are the ones who will become Trib Saints and bravely die a martyr's death.

Satans wrath and God's wrath are what brings in more believers for God's kingdom.

[In Christ]

Amen Buzz!

[im4Jesus]

Of course the RCC would say that! How dare you peasant even think you could understand the Word of God without being christened and given authority by the RCC!

It's sad & pathetic that they would tell their congregants this and not even encourage them to read the Spirit filled pages of Salvation through our Savior. In my experience, most "priests" couldn't quote scripture to save their rosaries--but they are great at quoting Vatican reform & council dates!

A good friend of mine, an Episcopalian, believes this also. She does not read the Bible. Her priests have told her it's just man's words, and therefore, cannot be trusted.