Impatient Czar
Its interesting to me like what was said above, that even high school kids can see this coming, why then cant our own government see it? And if people can see it, why do they then choose to ignore the truth when you tell them the Bible predicted it thousands of years ago? How can you acknowledge the truth while at the same time ignore it so completly? I just dont get it.
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18
Waiting on the Trumpet
Bingo! That is called hermanuetics, or using Scripture to interpret Scripture. I posted the verse reference in my OP...Ezekiel 38:17. God speaks of Gog as someone that has been mentioned in Scripture already...Does anyone else think that Gog is a high ranking fallen angel? He is called the chief prince. The prince of Persia is a demonic entity, and Michael is referred to as the Price of Israel. Also, Gog will also be present in the last battle at the end of the millenium. I doubt that Putin will live another 1000+ years.
The Beast, The A/C has over 50 titles in Scripture. Many of the OT prophets spoke about him, including Isaiah, Daniel, Zechariah and Jeremiah. When the Lord speaks to Gog and asks him if he is the one spoken of by the prophets, who else can He be referring to? Ezekiel 38 and 39 are the only time in Scripture that Gog is mentioned outside of Revelation 20 (again there in reference to Satan and his leaders).Thus says the Lord God: “Are you he of whom I have spoken in former days by My servants the prophets of Israel, who prophesied for years in those days that I would bring you against them?
btw, if you look at some older commentaries, Matthew Henry, for e.g, and some before the 20th century, or early 20th, they assign Gog as "The Assyrian" spoken of in Daniel. This is not a new theory guys...it is simply how I see the passage. I believe that prophecy is shown in patterns, foreshadowings and multiple fulfillments. Ezekiel 38 & 39, IMO, is a major portion of end times prophecy and we should study it often as prophecy unfolds, as it can become even clearer as we see that day approaching.
Jesus you are my rescue!
Originally Posted by Gideon300
I imagine that people as far back as we can think have thought the leaders in Russia are Gog. Lenin, Stalin, Breshnev.......?
Regular Member
I'm with you I think Gog is a fallen angel or demonic entity that empowers/influences/possesses one man. And this entity is the prince of three earthly realms.
Eze 38:3 "and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I [am] against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal.
This fallen angel or demonic entity, G-d calls "Gog" exerts demonic influence again at the end of the millennium, here.
Rev 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom [is] as the sand of the sea.
The bolded part is mine as the Bible says Gog and Magog, not Gog of Magog so I often wonder if there is really more than one entity exerting influence on the leader who attacks Israel in Eze 38. The best precedent for this is the man at the Gadarenes. I shudder to imagine his torment.
Mar 5:9 Then He asked him, “What is your name?” And he answered, saying, “My name is Legion; for we are many.”
Regular Member
The antichrist and Gog are different people. Please show us in Ezekiel 38 & 39 where Jesus touches down on the Mt of Olives. Please show us why Gog is buried, but the AC is thrown in the lake of fire. Please show us why only a group of nations invade in Ezekiel 38 & 39, but in Revelation all nations are gathered.
Gog/Magog occurs before Israel is back in covenant with God.
Not the same people, this is bad teaching. Are you reading Joel Richardson? Please read the articles below.
http://www.pre-trib.org/data/pdf/Hit...fGogandMag.pdf
http://www.lamblion.com/articles/art...ibulation2.php
Waiting on the Trumpet
As long as I don't get in trouble for sharing/discussing my point of view, I would love to. I am a teacher and pastor and love the Lord and you guys too. Please do not bait me in for an argument, because I love to discuss prophecy, but I am not 1) above admitting I am wrong, and, 2) not willing to fight over something like this.Please show us in Ezekiel 38 & 39 where Jesus touches down on the Mt of Olives.
Prophecy and prophetic Scripture routinely has a lot of different angles to the same event. We find this pattern in numerous prophetic passages, especially in the First Coming and Second Coming of the Messiah. Not every prophetic passage is cut and dry, clear and concise. Let me check that...they are as far as God is concerned, but we as His people need to patiently read and rightly divide the Word. In other words, some passages are more challenging than others, amen?
Look at Ezekiel 38:17, which, so far, no one has actually addressed...where is Gog mentioned prior to this verse? Please show me.
As for the above question, you have to look at Ezekiel 39:1-8, Matthew 24:26-31 and Revelation 19:17-21. These are the only 3 passages that speak of birds eating the dead armies after God has wiped them out. IMO, they are perfectly harmonized as the same event. Personally, I believe Ezekiel 38 is the rise of the Beast and his war against the saints, probably beginning of Trib, while 39 is the end of the trib and the final battle where God destroys him and his armies. These are all described as pretty final for Christ's 2nd Coming, but neither say that He steps on the Mt. of Olives, yet we know that it is at the end of the Tribulation. The question is kind of faulty because there is only one passage in the entire Bible that mentions this part of Jesus' arrival. It is found in Zechariah 14:4 and, it is perfect example of what I mentioned above. Remember, Jesus is not clearly seen in the OT (by not clearly seen, I mean to Israel. We see Him, they do not). Ezekiel 38 and 39 are a great example, along with Zechariah 12-14, of "God" being Israel's rescue, yet in the NT we see it fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ in Revelation 12-19.
That is a personal attack. I do not know who that is, and bad teaching is something that leads away from Jesus. This is simply my prophetic view of a passage, a passage of which is still yet future. None of us can be 100% on this guys.Not the same people, this is bad teaching. Are you reading Joel Richardson?
This is true, but, God is clearly saying that because of this event that He is going to renew the covenant with them. They see His hand once again and are restored. Is this not the purpose of the Tribulation? I believe that this event is post-covenant of death, i.e., the false peace treaty, but that it culminates in their repentance. The reason I say that is found in Ezekiel 38:14. Gog is said to know that Israel is dwelling in peace. It could be that is because he is breaking a covenant that led to that peace...Gog/Magog occurs before Israel is back in covenant with God.
Overall, I love the discussion guys. Nothing wrong with it, and we cannot get angry with each other. It is very, very clear that prophecy is unfolding, and probably about to take a huge labor push here very, very soon. I believe we will see some amazing things soon.
Jesus you are my rescue!
Waiting on the Trumpet
this is from the article posted btw...
You know what, I did not read the entire article posted by Terry James, but I decided to back and do so. I am pretty much saying the same thing here guys. I have always believed that Gog is a spiritual entity that indwells a man at the end. I tried to say that in 2 posts, yet the OP is based on this theory, by a Rapture Ready author. Interesting...The great prophetic book of Revelation presents a hellish angel–a spirit—that will, during the Tribulation, ascend from the bottomless pit. His name is Abaddon, as given in Hebrew, and Apollyon in the Greek language. Daniel the prophet mentioned a powerful angel called “the Prince of Persia” who caused all sorts of troubles to be inflicted upon Daniel’s people, the Israelites who were in Babylonian captivity. Ezekiel foretold an evil spirit of the ancient region that is present-day Russia that will at a time near Christ’s return inhabit a leader who will lead a coalition of armies against God’s chosen nation. That evil one is called “Gog.”
With so many signals on the prophetic horizon indicating the Church Age is in the process of being brought to a wind-up, it isn’t unreasonable to surmise that the evil being held back by the hand of God might be very near the time of release. Certainly the one called Gog must not be too far below the surface in these troubling, although exciting, days.
Jesus you are my rescue!
Regular Member
If this is what you are hanging your hat on this is hardly proof....
http://www.raptureforums.com/EndTime...gmagogwar2.cfm
Jesus is not found in Ezekiel 38 or 39, again please show us where the messiah is shown returning. He is not there. Matthew 24 and Rev 19 are not the same events as Ezekiel. If so, please show us where the Temple is. Next, explain why the Jews are not in the Wilderness or why Gog's army is destroyed by supernatural forces before his forces reach Jerusalem and not destroyed by Jesus physically.As for the above question, you have to look at Ezekiel 39:1-8, Matthew 24:26-31 and Revelation 19:17-21. These are all described as pretty final for Christ's 2nd Coming,
Remember, Jesus is not clearly seen in the OT (by not clearly seen, I mean to Israel. We see Him, they do not).Israel knows the messiah will come well, they just don't understand it is Jesus...
Go back and read Zechariah 12-14
Zechariah 12:10-14 is specific about Jesus' return. Again, you don't see this in Ezekiel..kind of a big thing to leave out...Ezekiel 38 and 39 are a great example, along with Zechariah 12-14, of "God" being Israel's rescue, yet in the NT we see it fulfilled in the person of Jesus Christ in Revelation 12-19.
No, not a personal attack. You have learned this from somewhere, and it is bad prophetic timing teaching. This is not an event that deals with salvation, I'm saying the teaching on this matter is wrong. There are so many differences between Armageddon and Gog/Magog that the two are not connected. Saying they are because of a few similarities shows the massive amounts of holes in this argument.That is a personal attack. I do not know who that is, and bad teaching is something that leads away from Jesus. This is simply my prophetic view of a passage, a passage of which is still yet future. None of us can be 100% on this guys.
This is most likely prior to the Tribulation. The nation of Israel needs to come back into covenant with God before they build a third temple. Ezekiel 38 & 39 makes that happen.This is true, but, God is clearly saying that because of this event that He is going to renew the covenant with them. They see His hand once again and are restored. Is this not the purpose of the Tribulation?
Then you are stating that the antichrist is Russian, that is not what Daniel 9 states... Explain how the Jews are living in peace when at the midpoint in the trib they run and leave Israel for the desert. Most likely the reason Israel is living in peace is due to the fulfillment of Psalm83 & Isaiah 17.I believe that this event is post-covenant of death, i.e., the false peace treaty, but that it culminates in their repentance. The reason I say that is found in Ezekiel 38:14. Gog is said to know that Israel is dwelling in peace. It could be that is because he is breaking a covenant that led to that peace...
Again, Gog's forces are destroyed before he gets to Jerusalem. There is no mention of cities and towns being destroyed or Jews being dashed to pieces like when the antichrist enters Jerusalem. At the midpoint in the trib the Jews flee into the wilderness and live there for 3 years. That is not living in peace and safety. At Armageddon they are surrounded by antichrist and the nations of the world. These are separate events and cannot be shoved into one event to make Ezekiel 38 & 39 all the same event.
What anger?Overall, I love the discussion guys. Nothing wrong with it, and we cannot get angry with each other. It is very, very clear that prophecy is unfolding, and probably about to take a huge labor push here very, very soon. I believe we will see some amazing things soon.
Did you read any of the articles posted in this thread? I don't think you have.
Regular Member
No, you aren't saying the same thing as Terry... Terry is stating there are three separate spirits. You are stating the AC and Gog are the same. You do understand that the AC will not be indwelt by a demon, right? The antichrist will be indwelt by Satan himself.
Regular Member
Yup! I feel pretty confident in my guess that Putin is Gog or possessed by the "Gog spirit."
"For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy." Revelation 19:10
Waiting on the Trumpet
Gideon...please watch your tone with me. I would appreciate it. As God is my witness, I have not been reading or learning this elsewhere. I read Scripture and I try to interpret it with Scripture. I have taught this and studied this for 15 yrs. I am waiting on prophecy to be fulfilled just like everyone else. I have the older commentaries that speak of this (anything prior the 50's btw), but I do not "hang my hat" on them. My hat so-to-speak, is simply a crown of rejoicing over His coming and I have the same charge as you to read, study and rightly divide Scripture.
You seem to be making this personal against me and my relationship with the Lord and my ability to read and teach Scripture. Let it be noted among witnesses that I am not engaging in this tit-for-tat style of discussion or attack. You have made some broad assumptions about me and I would ask you to ease up a bit here friend. I have been on this board for over 10 years, and this is not new. I used to talk about this view with Todd and the founders of RR way back then. When leadership changed a few years ago, I had to stop sharing my view. This thread led down that path, and I can only assume that the mods *may* be monitoring the nature of the discussion...? I am not sure.
I love in you in Christ brother, so let's please remain civil.
Since someone already said that they are "99.9% sure that Putin is Gog" (because of his "evil eyes"...which is not Biblical methodology btw), then by rights this thread should be shut down according to rule #11 anyway.
Jesus you are my rescue!
Regular Member
You seem to be making this personal against me and my relationship with the Lord and my ability to read and teach Scripture.
There was no attack here...Let it be noted among witnesses that I am not engaging in this tit-for-tat style of discussion or attack.
You have made some broad assumptions about me and I would ask you to ease up a bit here friend.If you feel like I did something wrong, by all means let the mods know.I have been on this board for over 10 years, and this is not new. I used to talk about this view with Todd and the founders of RR way back then. When leadership changed a few years ago, I had to stop sharing my view. This thread led down that path, and I can only assume that the mods *may* be monitoring the nature of the discussion...? I am not sure.
Here is what I have to say. We have friendly debates and discussions here often. If you have a view that is not held by the majority on this board such as this topic, my advice to you, don't post it. We do debate, and I guess you view someone disagreeing with you as an attack. There was nothing uncivil, no attack, etc.
Thee was nothing uncivil about this. I love my brothers and sisters in Christ too.I love in you in Christ brother, so let's please remain civil.
My intention was to debate the topic with you, but you obviously aren't interested in answering any of the questions I asked.
Waiting on the Trumpet
I love you man! You just have to be careful how things are said in a debate, they can taken as attacks. I certainly do not mind debating at all. I read my Bible and I teach it as well. I take James 3:1 seriously. It just seemed a bit like you were calling me out as not knowing how to read or study, or, in effect, teach. Let's call it an official end of the specific topic and please God in doing so.
Quite frankly, I am surprised the mods have let the thread go this long (not necessarily because of our debate) due to the pin-the-tail on Gog as Putin nature of it.
Jesus you are my rescue!
Warrior 4 Christ
Every morning I wake up and wish the rapture had taken place
Warrior 4 Christ
Christian Poet
No, Gog is not the beast nor the anti-christ. There is nothing in the Bible that says that. Gog is simply the leader of the Russians who leads the Gog/Magog War of Ezekiel 38-39.
Regular Member
Agreed.
I have to disagree. Gog much more than simply the leader of the Russians during Ezekiel's war. Gog is a demon, one of satan's generals. Read Dan 10:13-21 . The archangel Michael is described as the chief prince of Israel who fought against the prince of Persia another demon. In Eze 38:2-3 and again in Eze 39:1 gog is described as the chief prince of Meshik and Tubal. Later in Rev 20:8 gog will resurface to lead an uprising against Christ himself. The last battle happens at the end of Christ's 1000 year reign. Gog is a demon that possesses the leaders of these wars.Gog is simply the leader of the Russians who leads the Gog/Magog War of Ezekiel 38-39.
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Philippians 2:10-11
Regular Member
Gog even sounds like a good "demon" name...
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me.... Living for Jesus - Listening for the Trumpet
Regular Member
If Putin is Gog, there is no reason that he also can't be or won't eventually be possessed or controlled by a demon spirit. I think evil men like hitler,stalin, and so forth very likely were controlled by demons, as shown by the blatant anti semitism. Just as the AC will be a man who becomes possessed by Satan himself, so could many of the end time players be possessed by satan's fallen angels. We battle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities and powers. Evil men are not possessed by the holy spirit, so they have to be driven by something.
Regular Member
Agreed.
N.C.t.a.r.d.I.S.
Exactly! The thing that makes Putin more of a candidate for Gog than past leaders is that there was no nation of Israel during Stalin, Marx, Hitler or the "Persia" we know now.
If ever the timing and events happening looked perfect, it is now. Looking really perfect. We do not know, that is for sure, but our hope is that Jesus is coming soon and that is all that matters. People think we are for destruction of these places. But we know that in actuality, Jesus coming is the reason the nations rage. Our hoping for Jesus coming does not do this, create the chaos and insanity in this world, the hate for anything of God is.
And I truly believe that demon possession of Ahmadinejad, the ayatollah, Libyan leaders and for sure Russia are most likely the reason of the focus on Israel where they all just were upset generally before, with everyone.
Psalm 30:11-12 (New King James Version)
11 You have turned for me my mourning into dancing;
You have put off my sackcloth and clothed me with gladness,
12 To the end that my glory may sing praise to You and not be silent.
O LORD my God, I will give thanks to You forever.
Pre-Flood!Thanks for the citizen title Hoot!
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