Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Why didn't God simply destroy satan

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    1,875

    Default Why didn't God simply destroy satan

    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Shadowlands
    Posts
    8,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    I personally believe that there are several reasons. Ultimately we aren't told blatantly in scripture, so all we can do is trust God, as in other things not directly discussed.

    However, I do believe it plays into the ultimate plan for the ultimate good for those who love God. We are indeed told that God enters into all things for good for those that love Him so that we can be conformed to the image of His Son. I do not think in any way that we were forced to sin, nor that Satan was forced to sin, but once the rebellions started, the best outcome is what God is aiming for. There is nothing to say that Adam would have kept himself from sinning without Satan around. As is obvious when Adam tried to blame Satan for his sin, God would have none of it. So, I do believe Satan is kept around for a particular outcome, including being a teaching tool.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    1,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kliska View Post
    I personally believe that there are several reasons. Ultimately we aren't told blatantly in scripture, so all we can do is trust God, as in other things not directly discussed.

    However, I do believe it plays into the ultimate plan for the ultimate good for those who love God. We are indeed told that God enters into all things for good for those that love Him so that we can be conformed to the image of His Son. I do not think in any way that we were forced to sin, nor that Satan was forced to sin, but once the rebellions started, the best outcome is what God is aiming for. There is nothing to say that Adam would have kept himself from sinning without Satan around. As is obvious when Adam tried to blame Satan for his sin, God would have none of it. So, I do believe Satan is kept around for a particular outcome, including being a teaching tool.
    I think you are right, I was just remember some of Jack Kelley's teaching and he said that he believe the devil will be bound during the millinium to prove that even with the absence of the devil and his angels man will still sin. It will be to show us we cannot blame it on satan, but ourselves. so i guess nobody will be able to use the excuse "the devil made me do it"
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Spokane, WA
    Posts
    1,578

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    Actually he still has access to heaven. The kick out occurs at trib mid point.

    This is what makes it even move amazing!!!
    Ya, It'll leave a mark.



    Pre-Flood; Pre-Furnace; Pre-Fierce Anger (orgēn)

    How is that 'Times Of The Gentiles' working out for you, World?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Dallas,Tx
    Posts
    6,336

    Default

    Satan is part of this whole plan for earth/man. He fits into this whole scene for bringing God's plan to fruition.

    The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the world so this was all in the works beforehand. Not that God creates evil, mind you, but what ensued was known ahead of time.
    If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything.

  6. #6

    Default

    It's purpose, as I see it, is that it gave the opportunity for us (and the angels) to have freewill, as you need two direct opposites to choose from for it to be true love.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    As we know, we can offer opinions on this, we'll wait for the full answers on the other side.

    The angels are immortal beings, so "destoying" is not, decreed not to be, an option. The Lord gives us an overriding principle, to give Him glory, to make His riches and mercy known to those created. It does that better than if he was just thrown into the pit. The mercy and grace shown to me, personally, makes it easier to understand God and His dealings with others, even angels. I do know the "why", love does what love does, mercy and grace are just who God is, they go to all as undeserved chances, underserved time to repent, undeserved grace to live another day. I would suspect the answer as to why the Lord did what He did is fundamentally answered in one word, love.
    Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

    Joel 3:2

    I will gather all nations and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat. There I will put them on trial for what they did to my inheritance, my people Israel, because they scattered my people among the nations and divided up my land.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Shadowlands
    Posts
    8,092

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Shelly View Post
    It's purpose, as I see it, is that it gave the opportunity for us (and the angels) to have freewill, as you need two direct opposites to choose from for it to be true love.
    Just a note; God and Satan are not direct opposites. God is so far above Satan, as He is above us, it is important to remember that. Satan can only operate and survive by God allowing him too, and he can only pester us by seeking permission.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The land of Dautches, Buhgies, Faschnachts, and Wilbur Dark Chocolate
    Posts
    17,369

    Default

    satan challenged God. He challenged Him within the relm of timelessness.

    His challenge also effected our existance within the boundries of our creation. Within time.

    Just how is probably beyond our comprehension.


    Perhaps the temptation of man coincided with the rebellion,
    perhaps God limited His perception in Creation so that satan was able to get away with something,

    perhaps trying to figure it out simply pushes us into science fiction drama, barely worthy only of paperback publication....


    But God is Holy and Just. He is all Truth. His ways are perfect. We can trust Him.


    We may not have the whole story, but we do know that the chain of events involving satan,
    also involved God's very personal involvement with His creation.

    An involvement that would require such intimacy, love, and sacrifice.


    Our faith is in Christ who clearly asked the Father - If there was any other way...

    Believing is trusting. Trusting God's wisdom.
    Somehow in God's dealing with satan, there is an incredible blessing for us.


    Although the dime-store novel may be an entertaining read,

    Child-like faith is the best way to regard this question. The Father knows what He is doing.

    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    West coast
    Posts
    6,840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    Free Will
    I agree with Sea Shelly that free will is probably an important part of the answer.

    God is all-powerful. He could have kept all His power and glory to Himself. Instead, He wanted to share His love (e.g., maybe kind of like good earthly parents who want children). He created the angels, whom He gave free will, but even in perfect conditions some of them rebelled. When He created mankind, He gave us free will, too. Our conditions may not be as good as the angels had, but, on the other hand, we can "fall" and still be redeemed. Out of love for us, Jesus died to take the punishment for our sins and to be a bridge to the Lord and Heaven (John 3:16-17, John 15:13).

    By letting us live on this "boarding school" of earth, the Lord gives us a chance to: (1) hear about salvation through Jesus alone; (2) experience good things (indicative of God and Heaven) and (3) experience bad things (indicative of Satan and Hell). God wants us to love Him and spend eternity with Him, but love isn't love if it is forced, so He gave us free will to choose our path. Although His word and our experiences make it very clear that Jesus (and Heaven) is the best choice, He won't force us to make that choice.

    Appreciation
    One wonders if appreciation might play a part in it, too. Thinking first in earthly terms, many people might not truly appreciate: a good job until they lose it, .....electricity until there is a power failure, .....running water until the pipes break, .....their health until they lose it, .....a fireman until their house starts to burn down, .....the trash men until they miss a week, and so on. Being forced to do without things like that can be one of the hardest, yet most eminently instructional ways to learn to appreciate something. One might say that the extent of a person's level of appreciation is based largely on the gain or the loss of it. For example:

    (A) If someone has always lived in the lap of luxury, they will probably never realize quite how well-off they are. [perhaps like the fallen angels who rebelled]
    (B) If someone has always lived in the lap of luxury in the past, but then loses it for a while, they will probably appreciate it more than someone who never had to do without.
    (C) If someone never did live in the lap of luxury, they will probably appreciate luxury the most.

    If we were given Heaven outright, it seems logical that we would not appreciate it as much as if we had to first experience the vicissitudes of life that Satan has caused on earth. Like the Bible says: Prov 20:21 An inheritance quickly gained at the beginning will not be blessed at the end. Because we have experienced the joys (that hint of Heaven) and the sad things (that hint of Hell), it seems logical that those experiences will not only help us long for and choose Heaven, but also appreciate it more when we get there.

    Finally, although much of our learning and appreciation may be gained the hard way, we can be encouraged by 2 Cor 4:17 For our light and momentary troubles are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all.

    "Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also." Matthew 6:19-21
    ______

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,736

    Default

    Pastor JD Farag (Aloha Bible Prophecy) actually addresses this in his Mid East Prophecy update this week.

    He basically says that if God has simply abolished Satan, then everyone would be forced to worship God out of fear rather than making a choice to worship God. Its worth watching - his explanation starts about half way through.
    "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38)

  12. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    Why do you suppose that God only kicked satan out of heaven rather than simply throwing him into hell or destroying him on the spot? Why let him come down and corrupt what He had created?
    I've wondered that myself. I keep falling back on, our ways are not Gods ways. We as humans cannot function and rationalize on Gods level/plane. We are locked in time and He is not.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    1,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Shelly View Post
    It's purpose, as I see it, is that it gave the opportunity for us (and the angels) to have freewill, as you need two direct opposites to choose from for it to be true love.
    but this statement supposes that there would never have been a choice had satan not sinned. Satan was blammed for Eve eating the apple, but it was her choice to make regardless of whether satan had been there or not. The choice was always there, satan just made it easier.

    We don't need satan in the picture to choose the wrong choice, perhaps this is one of the things the milinnial kingdom will prove
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    New Jerusalem
    Posts
    1,699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    I think you are right, I was just remember some of Jack Kelley's teaching and he said that he believe the devil will be bound during the millinium to prove that even with the absence of the devil and his angels man will still sin. It will be to show us we cannot blame it on satan, but ourselves. so i guess nobody will be able to use the excuse "the devil made me do it"
    Interesting.... never thought of that.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,475

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post

    He basically says that if God has simply abolished Satan, then everyone would be forced to worship God out of fear rather than making a choice to worship God.
    hmm..I'm not sure about that.
    We have 'free will' apart from Satan.
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
    For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does He withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

    Psalm 84:10-11

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The land of Dautches, Buhgies, Faschnachts, and Wilbur Dark Chocolate
    Posts
    17,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    We don't need satan in the picture to choose the wrong choice, perhaps this is one of the things the milinnial kingdom will prove

    There is great agreement on that statement.

    The final condemnation of man that justifies an eternity of separation.

    Even in His very presence, man will still choose evil as attested by the final rebellion.


    God's children desire to be under Him. They desire fellowship.

    And the Father will not deny them, neither will He refuse to suffer any cost to make it so.
    That is the message of love in Christ Jesus - a Cross for our sake.

    For all who would believe.
    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Houston TX
    Posts
    1,875

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally View Post
    There is great agreement on that statement.

    The final condemnation of man that justifies an eternity of separation.

    Even in His very presence, man will still choose evil as attested by the final rebellion.


    God's children desire to be under Him. They desire fellowship.

    And the Father will not deny them, neither will He refuse to suffer any cost to make it so.
    That is the message of love in Christ Jesus - a Cross for our sake.

    For all who would believe.
    It is hard to fathom how you could reject Jesus when you are in His very presence and you can see all the irrefutable proof.
    For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 1 Cor 1:18

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The land of Dautches, Buhgies, Faschnachts, and Wilbur Dark Chocolate
    Posts
    17,369

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jlutz View Post
    It is hard to fathom how you could reject Jesus when you are in His very presence and you can see all the irrefutable proof.
    but then satan, Pilate, Ciaphas, Judas..... even Peter [in his denial] did that very thing.


    Yes, it is mind blowing indeed,

    but when we consider our own selfish person, we are even more amazed by His love - While we were yet sinners - His enemies.

    Thank You Jesus, forgive our self focus, renew us daily, be our all.
    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”

  19. #19
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Location
    Mechanicsburg, PA
    Posts
    468

    Default God created all things good.

    I wrote a paper on some of the questions asked in my Theology class and I like to share this with everyone. Nothing Satan can is outside of what God allows him to do. He is creation just as we are. Good and evil are not equal parallels as some would believe. Just as Satan rebelled against God for his sins and he will be held responsible for them in time, just as we shall be held if we have not chosen to accept Christ. As we see how God is patience with Satan and what he did, we also see how God is with us and that we come to him. It also serves as an another example that just because we sin we should be grateful that God did not destroy Satan when he sinned, because then we could be under the same judgment when we sin,while Satan is not forgiven of his sin of pride, that is what makes us different from Him we were given the option of Salvation thru Jesus Christ but for Satan there is no second chances. We know that final rejection of Christ will condemn a person to hell, but for Satan that his final destination along with the angels that fell.

    Here is my paper



    Short Essay 4 on Angelology and Satanology

    Today our society is fascinated by good and evil and that both sides are equal and will always be in a back and forth battle. But is this view really biblical, what does the Bible teach about God and Satan and are the two really locked in an internal battle for all history.

    Many believe that God and Satan co-equal to each other and locked in an eternal battle of good and evil. This is known as ethical dualism. The belief of ethical dualism is that there are two mutually hostile forces or beings in the world and one being the source of good and the other being the source of evil[1]. It is taught in most churches that God is the supremely good and Satan is creature that is bent on throwing evil in any direction he can. But is that what the Bible teaches. God is the creator and Satan is the creation who choose to rebel.


    According to the Bible that Satan was created in time past with the other angels and he was placed as one of the highest angels. He was created with free will and identity of his own, but he was not content and his pride leads him to rebel against God and was thrown out of heaven along with 1/3 of the angels. (Isa 14:12-15; 2 Pet 2:4; Jude 6). According to the books of Isaiah 14: 12-17 and Ezekiel 28 we see Satan fall and God’s judgment upon him, In Isaiah 14 we see a condensed version of his fall and punishment and then Ezekiel 28 show a more detail version of his fall and judgment.

    While this view of Satan’s rise and fall is partially talked about in each of these chapters we also need to see that there are some arguments[2] and Towns presents a few arguments against that both Isaiah and Ezekiel are talking solely about Satan, some believe that God is giving judgment again in Isaiah an earthly king; it could be either a historical or future king of Babylon or Sennacherib, or a king in the past. I would explain that we need to look at that the whole chapter and see that there are both the literal view point and also spiritual implications, which the verses are holding to the correct viewpoint and we need to make sure that we have correct viewpoint of the scripture.


    When God created the angels and the entire world he created the angels with free will so that they would freely praise and worship God, so we see that Satan was given the choice to worship God or himself. As a created being from God we see Satan limitations as his is self –existent due to being created by God (2 Cor 12:7), He is not omniscient and must rely on demon to do his work (1 Peter 1:11-12), omnipotent (1 John 5:19; Matt 16:22-23; Luke 22: 1-6; Eph 2:2; Rev 13), he can be resisted and caused to flee (Jam 4:7) by the power of God give to believers in Christ (Eph. 6:10-18). He is not omnipresent (Eph 2:2) and must rely on his demon to do his work (Mark 5:9), He is not sovereign and has been exiled to earth and is under the judgments of God (Eph 2:2), Allow to go where God allows him to go (Job 1:12;2:6), He is powerless before Jesus Christ and believers in Christ (Mark 3:27),Was defeated at the cross with the death and resurrection of Christ (John 12:31;Col 2:14-15;Rev. 1:17,18), Unable to separate believers from God and is subject to power of God thru the armor of God that we Christian must put on (Rom 8:37-39, Eph 6:11, 13). These verse show that no matter what Satan does he is limited by what power God gives to him and allow him to do.


    While we are and can be tempted by Satan, we cannot always blame him for every sin that we do, In James 1:14 “but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed”. So we see that it is our human heart that can cause us to sin, Jesus said in Mat. 26:41 that we are to "Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation" so just because we get tempted by Satan it is our own hearts that are the cause of falling to sin.
    Also wanted to add Mark 7:20- " And he said, That which proceedeth out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, evil thoughts proceed, fornications, thefts, murders, adulteries, covetings, wickednesses, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, railing, pride, foolishness: all these evil things proceed from within, and defile the man.




    Bibliography
    H.B. Kuhn “Dualism” In Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, ed. Walter A. Elwell, 2nd ed., 239-45. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2001, 357.
    Towns, Elmer. Theology for Today Mason, OH: Thomson Custom Solutions Center, 2001


    [1] H.B. Kuhn “Dualism” In Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, ed. Walter A. Elwell, 2nd ed., 239-45. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker, 2001, 357.

    [2]Towns, Elmer. Theology for Today Mason, OH: Thomson Custom Solutions Center, 2001.
    Last edited by trandraskell; March 21st, 2012 at 03:00 PM. Reason: corrected formatting;adding idea point
    This righteousness is given through faith in[h] Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference between Jew and Gentile, 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus. (Romans 3:22-24 NIV)

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    6,022

    Default

    The thought that we could have been created for the purpose of blindly worshiping God makes my blood run cold.

    I'm glad we have a choice weather to serve Him or not.....to choose between salvation and damnation. To that end God uses Satan most effectively. How else could we know what is holy if we haven't been exposed to evil?

    We stand with Israel
    Genesis 12 verse 3

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •