Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Question about judgment

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,741

    Default Question about judgment

    My SIL's Mom was at one point a minister. She also believes in Budhism and hybridizes Christianity and Budhism. When I say she is a Christian, I mean it in the loosest possible sense. She bellieves in God. She bellieves in Jesus. She believes in a personal relationship. BUT, she is ultra ultra liberal. Like, pro-abortion (right to choose), pro-socialism, believes there are many paths to Christ.... it confuses me and hurts my heart.

    What I want to know is how a person can profess to believe in Christ, but believe all that other stuff? And, if she doesn't go in the rapture, is she judged more harshly because she espouses such beliefs?
    "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Out of the mountains and into the Piedmont
    Posts
    19,461

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post
    What I want to know is how a person can profess to believe in Christ, but believe all that other stuff?
    Weak Biblical foundation and a severe lack of discernment.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Colorado Springs, CO
    Posts
    2,280

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post
    My SIL's Mom was at one point a minister. She also believes in Budhism and hybridizes Christianity and Budhism. When I say she is a Christian, I mean it in the loosest possible sense. She bellieves in God. She bellieves in Jesus. She believes in a personal relationship. BUT, she is ultra ultra liberal. Like, pro-abortion (right to choose), pro-socialism, believes there are many paths to Christ.... it confuses me and hurts my heart.

    What I want to know is how a person can profess to believe in Christ, but believe all that other stuff? And, if she doesn't go in the rapture, is she judged more harshly because she espouses such beliefs?
    When I encounter such individuals, I see that behavior as the result of a lack of understanding about what salvation truly entails, an inner distrust in the promises of God, and a desire to pave one's own walk apart from God's time and direction, which such individuals perceive to be slow and somewhat random. Basically, they want to be saved, but salvation alone is boring. New age stuff is "new" and tantalizing. The worst thing is when a "New Age Christian" believes their deviation from scripture makes them unique and special, or that they have been priveleged with some type of "higher path" the Lord chose and revealed for them specifically. They feel special and justified, almost above other Christians who appear like ants slaving away at the same leaf, oblivious to their mediocre and lack-luster experience of salvation. They see themselves as deacons of a "superior" form of Christianity. Since they view their "revelation" as unique and priveleged, they themselves must therefore be so as well. With this inflated sense of influence, such individuals typically wind up in positions of authority due to their passionate speaking skills and ability to sway others into at least hearing their viewpoint. From there, and coupled with their positions of authority, they end up getting listened to and at worst believed.
    One Day Closer

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ready, Set & Waiting To Go!
    Posts
    3,650

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    Weak Biblical foundation and a severe lack of discernment.
    Robin, Steve is so right here!

    I always use to wonder why so many people didn't have discernment when they claimed to be born again Christians. I look at it this way. Whatever we put in, we get out. The way we eat affects the way we feel and the way we feed our Spirit is in accordance to our discernment. Your SIL's mom is a minister/Buddist/liberal so she is feeding her Spirit with only half truths and that is what she will get back. She is getting back "being all over the place". When we feed our Spirits with TRUTH only, that is when our discernment is at it's peak. Feeding our Spirits happen when studying the WORD, praying and all that we do because we want to know our best friend and Savior as well as we can because we love Him so much. In return our Lord gives us better and better knowledge of what is from Him ONLY!!

    That is why your SIL's mom is fuzzy between fact and fiction. She feeds on too many lies added in with a little bit of truth which makes for a confused Spirit.

    I will pray for her and for you for the right words to speak to her if the Lord leads you to do so.
    <center><a href="http://www.zwani.com/graphics/christian/"><img src="http://images.zwani.com/graphics/christian/images/christiandriverslicense.jpg"  alt="zwani.com myspace graphic comments" border=0></a><br><a href="http://www.twitterbackgrounds.org/" target="_blank">Free Twitter Backgrounds</a>


    Is Jesus your co-pilot? If so, then you better switch seats!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post
    What I want to know is how a person can profess to believe in Christ, but believe all that other stuff?
    What Steve said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post
    And, if she doesn't go in the rapture, is she judged more harshly because she espouses such beliefs?
    It's probable. I doubt you want to hear that, but it's the truth.

    Like everyone else, she'll be judged based on her understanding. If she understands the Biblical viewpoint but instead chooses her own 'Jesus' + budhism way, if her life ends that way, she will be condemned with the lost.

    Genuine faith in the literal Biblical account is what is needed. She can be saved and confused or lost and confused. If she believes there are multiple paths to God, how does she reconcile Matthew 7:14 or John 14:6? Acts 4:12?

    As a Christian, it's your responsibility to deliver her the truth of God's Word and how to be saved.

    What she does with this after is her own choice to make. If you've done this already, you can pray for her and hope you or someone else might be used by God to change her mind.

    But at the end of the day no one can do that for her but herself. It's her decision.

    Despite all this she is your SIL's mom, and no matter what, treat her as a good Christian would: with kindness and the wisdom of God, letting your life be a testimony to the words you speak of according to the Scriptures. God willing.

    I've prayed for your SIL's mom.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Posts
    1,741

    Default

    Thank you. That clears it up a lot.

    I have a big problem with her theology if you can call it that, but my biggest issue is that my parents view her as their spiritual guide. Ie: if SIL's Mom says its okay to believe XYZ (gay marriage is of God, abortion is okay, Liberal views are more Christian because they help the poor and that's what Jesus did, immodesty is okay, if it feels okay it's okay, etc...) then it's fine from a Christian standpoint. She comes accross as very loving and she's very non-judgemental unless you believe traditional Christian doctorine. Then you're closed minded.

    I'm running into big issues witnessing to them because SIL's Mom undoes everything I plant when i return home, and the do not have the spiritual discernment anymore than SIL's Mom does to understand the Truth. When I was visiting them a couple of months ago my brother my Mom and I had a fabulous conversation about Faith, about how ultimately our beliefs have to come down to Faith, about the rapture, and a whole host of other issues. Now they firmly believe that the rapture is just a parable Paul was telling to sereptitiously give the Greeks hope about the troubles they suffered at the time, and all sorts of other bunk. They still believe that unless a person does something really really bad they go to heaven and all sorts of other anti-Biblical tripe.

    I pray multiple times per day for God to change their hearts, and I know it comes down to God's decision as to whether or not they will come around in time. It's just as time gets shorter I feel this urgency...
    "Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment." (Matthew 22:37-38)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    410

    Default

    She's not unlike many people, sadly.

    They try to mix worldly views with their Christian ones.

    We know they don't mix, but people try nonetheless.

    It can be difficult to separate our sin nature or wordly views from our Christian ones.

    Remind her to ask the question... Is it (whatever the topic) my view, the worlds, or Gods?

    I think many Christians forget or don't realize that while they are new creations they are still in their sin nature bodies and are influenced by it.
    I accept nothing from man as truth...
    only that, One is the truth. (John 14-6)

    Pre-Flood/Pre-Trib (Genesis 5-24)

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Robinbobbin View Post
    I pray multiple times per day for God to change their hearts, and I know it comes down to God's decision as to whether or not they will come around in time. It's just as time gets shorter I feel this urgency...
    God's decision is that everyone in the entire world is free to come to the cross, and this is what He does desire if mankind would have it.

    Sadly, they won't.

    Many choose to forgo God's love, God's mercy, and God's pardon in Jesus Christ. Many also accept it graciously and God loves them even more.

    Those who won't, can. Those who will, do.

    This is the love of God manifested. He loves the entire world, all of humanity so much, He has made the way to reconciliation with God by Jesus Christ for everyone, even a simple thing, only to believe and have faith in Him.

    Those who will accept it will be endeared to God even more, even as Jesus Christ is dear to God. It's almost unfathomable.

    Those who reject Him if they persist in their rejection unto the end, by their own choosing and rejecting, even hating the good thing Jesus Christ did for them... these then separate themselves from God.

    He went to a cross and shed His holy blood for them while they were still His enemies! They have their entire lives to repent and be saved! If they won't, they hate Him.

    What more can God do for them? He already answered their initial animosity with pardon, even at the cost of His blood (1 John 4:19). God's proven how dearly He loves them. There's no joy in it for God that they should go away to Hell. It's God who is spurned by the hatred of such a one, even to the blaspheming of the Holy Spirit.

    Certainly not mankind who is so obviously beloved of God.

    Ezekiel 18:23, 32
    Have I any pleasure in the death of the wicked? says the Lord, and not rather that he should turn from his evil way and return [to his God] and live?

    ...

    I have no pleasure in the death of him who dies, says the Lord God. Therefore turn (be converted) and live!
    John 3:14-21
    And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the desert [on a pole], so must [so it is necessary that] the Son of Man be lifted up [on the cross], in order that everyone who believes in Him [who cleaves to Him, trusts Him, and relies on Him] may not perish, but have eternal life and [actually] live forever!

    For God so greatly loved and dearly prized the world that He [even] gave up His only begotten (unique) Son, so that whoever believes in (trusts in, clings to, relies on) Him shall not perish (come to destruction, be lost) but have eternal (everlasting) life.

    For God did not send the Son into the world in order to judge (to reject, to condemn, to pass sentence on) the world, but that the world might find salvation and be made safe and sound through Him.

    He who believes in Him [who clings to, trusts in, relies on Him] is not judged [he who trusts in Him never comes up for judgment; for him there is no rejection, no condemnation--he incurs no damnation]; but he who does not believe (cleave to, rely on, trust in Him) is judged already [he has already been convicted and has already received his sentence] because he has not believed in and trusted in the name of the only begotten Son of God. [He is condemned for refusing to let his trust rest in Christ's name.]

    The [basis of the] judgment (indictment, the test by which men are judged, the ground for the sentence) lies in this: the Light has come into the world, and people have loved the darkness rather than and more than the Light, for their works (deeds) were evil.

    For every wrongdoer hates (loathes, detests) the Light, and will not come out into the Light but shrinks from it, lest his works (his deeds, his activities, his conduct) be exposed and reproved.

    But he who practices truth [who does what is right] comes out into the Light; so that his works may be plainly shown to be what they are--wrought with God [divinely prompted, done with God's help, in dependence upon Him].
    1 Timothy 2:4-6
    God our Savior wishes all men to be saved and [increasingly] to perceive and recognize and discern and know precisely and correctly the [divine] Truth.

    For there [is only] one God, and [only] one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself as a ransom for all [people, a fact that was] attested to at the right and proper time.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2,475

    Default

    I am still wondering about the believing in Jesus Christ as Savior, yet believing there are many paths to heaven....
    I would rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God than dwell in the tents of the wicked.
    For the LORD God is a sun and shield; the LORD bestows favor and honor;
    no good thing does He withhold from those whose walk is blameless.

    Psalm 84:10-11

  10. #10
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    The Shadowlands
    Posts
    8,145

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacinth View Post
    I am still wondering about the believing in Jesus Christ as Savior, yet believing there are many paths to heaven....
    It depends on a few things; was this their belief when they report coming to Jesus? It could be a recent development, but if it was believed at the time, then it may show that there was a false belief/misunderstanding of 1) Sin 2) Jesus and His role in salvation. Jesus being Lord, and people calling out to God with that in mind seems to be part of the salvational equation.

    Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

    There's a difference between "confessing" a purely human Jesus that is just seen on the same level as a Buddha, and confessing the Jesus from scripture.

    Thanks to sweeetlilgurlie on Narniaweb for the sig

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    The land of Dautches, Buhgies, Faschnachts, and Wilbur Dark Chocolate
    Posts
    17,451

    Default

    There is likely more to it, but in basic form:

    She doesn't trust Jesus.

    Either He is Truth or not. His word is 100% trustworthy, or lies.


    A little leaven. It sounds like she dumped the whole box into her faith.

    It's ALL about Jesus. The Son of God - Emanuel - The Mighty God - Our Salvation.

    John 1:1-3 NKJV --- Luke 22:42 NKJV --Romans 3:23 NKJV, Rom 5:8 NKJV, Rom 8:28 NKJV, Rom 8:31 NKJV, Rom8:38-39 NKJV, ---Titus 1:2 NKJV - Heb 6:18 NKJV --- John 14:6 NKJV --- 1 John 5:13 NKJV --- Acts 16:29-31 NKJV ... John 6:28-29 NKJV... 1John 2:22 NKJV... Heb 10:11-13 NKJV

    “Oh Look,... an Atheist........I Don't believe it....”

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    3rd World Atlanta
    Posts
    3,135

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TimothyK View Post
    Genuine faith in the literal Biblical account is what is needed. She can be saved and confused or lost and confused. If she believes there are multiple paths to God, how does she reconcile Matthew 7:14 or John 14:6? Acts 4:12?
    Ah yes those wonderful beautiful words from those 3 verses! I cast my lot with them years ago. When we're confronted with a friend/family member unsure of The Way to God always present these 3 verses. There should be no doubt after we present those verses (easier said than done I know). Great job!
    John 14:6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

    John 11:25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die.

    Romans 10:9 If you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,653

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian9 View Post
    Ah yes those wonderful beautiful words from those 3 verses! I cast my lot with them years ago. When we're confronted with a friend/family member unsure of The Way to God always present these 3 verses. There should be no doubt after we present those verses (easier said than done I know). Great job!


    John 6:63-69
    It is the Spirit Who gives life [He is the Life-giver]; the flesh conveys no benefit whatever [there is no profit in it]. The words (truths) that I have been speaking to you are spirit and life.

    But [still] some of you fail to believe and trust and have faith. For Jesus knew from the first who did not believe and had no faith and who would betray Him and be false to Him.

    And He said, This is why I told you that no one can come to Me unless it is granted him [unless he is enabled to do so] by the Father. After this, many of His disciples drew back (returned to their old associations) and no longer accompanied Him.

    Jesus said to the Twelve, Will you also go away? [And do you too desire to leave Me?]

    Simon Peter answered, Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words (the message) of eternal life.

    And we have learned to believe and trust, and [more] we have come to know [surely] that You are the Holy One of God, the Christ (the Anointed One), the Son of the living God.
    Theres no other way to go.

    It's our way or God's way. And since regardless we're going to answer to our God and Creator someday, be it that we do things our way or His way...

    It's to our benefit to heed our God and Creator. Jesus Christ's way isn't hard or an unbearable thing to do.

    Matthew 11:28-30
    Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy-laden and overburdened, and I will cause you to rest. [I will ease and relieve and refresh your souls.]

    Take My yoke upon you and learn of Me, for I am gentle (meek) and humble (lowly) in heart, and you will find rest (relief and ease and refreshment and recreation and blessed quiet) for your souls.

    For My yoke is wholesome (useful, good--not harsh, hard, sharp, or pressing, but comfortable, gracious, and pleasant), and My burden is light and easy to be borne.
    Or... we can do things our way in accordance with Satan. We can puff ourselves up with arrogance, pride, and full on ourselves place the god of 'myself' on a high pedestal and serve this god vehemently.

    This idol built on lies, 'security', and every kind of falsehood to maintain the maximum networth of pleasure.

    At least until they die.

    Then what have you got? What will it have cost you?

    Mark 8:35-37
    For whoever wants to save his [higher, spiritual, eternal] life, will lose it [the lower, natural, temporal life which is lived only on earth]; and whoever gives up his life [which is lived only on earth] for My sake and the Gospel's will save it [his higher, spiritual life in the eternal kingdom of God].

    For what does it profit a man to gain the whole world, and forfeit his life [in the eternal kingdom of God]?

    For what can a man give as an exchange (a compensation, a ransom, in return) for his [blessed] life [in the eternal kingdom of God]?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •