Pastor on Harley

[House of Light]

Hello brothers and sisters, I have something on my mind and would like your advice. I'll try to make it short:

A few months back one of the senior pastors of my church was preaching and in his message he mentioned something about driving his Harley (to make a point or for illustration purposes). Now, we're all very well aware of the times we live in and I must say that although both my wife and I were both laid off in 2009 He has graciously provided and I have NOTHING to complain about. I am very grateful about what He's done in our lives. But here's the thing, I know there there are a lot of people out there that are still hurting because of unemployment and the economy as a whole and to hear this brother talk about riding his Harley down the road and feeling the wind in your hair (he actually mentioned this in his message) makes me feel a little uncomfortable. First of all I think he should of used a different illustration being that for some (or most) Americans, owning a Harley is a HUGE luxury. Many people out there (in our church alone) can't even pay the resnt, let alone buy a Harley. The second thing is, how is it that this pastor can afford to buy a Harley? I don't know how much he get's paid or how he spends his money, but I don't know, it makes me wonder. Listen, for all I know, it could have been a gift from someone and so shame on me for thinking this way. But I can't help thinking about it. Am I wrong to do so?

Your thoughts...?

Thanks

In my opinion, this should not bother you at all...or anyone else for that matter. For some, a home of their own is a luxury, or enough money to pay the bills...or even to put gas in the tank. Basing a message on what people have or have not or might not be able to afford to have......thats alot of things that cannot not be said. What the Lord gives us...he hopfully also uses it as inspiration...something to encourage others by. For example, I took a trip across country a few weeks ago...and the inspiration that came from it was bountiful.....but if I thought that I could not mention the trip to my Bible Study....because of the "times" we are in.

Secondly, it isn't even up to us to speculate how someone can afford something or not. It really puts up a roadblock, and we might not hear the message because of it...

[Tall Timbers]

I've never thought of a motorcycle as a rich man's toy. Harleys have always been pricey compared to other bikes, though, and at least the older ones were known to break down all the time so you could expect to be stranded if you traveled with one. Japanese bikes used to be dirt cheap until the U.S. government imposed a high tariff on them. All bikes seem kind of pricey now. Once when I was overseas, in the military, I could have purchased a new Harley for way, way less than it would have cost stateside. It was a special deal for overseas military members that the Harley company was doing. I almost got one. Not everybody pays a lot for their Harley. I think his comment was pretty innocent. I think this is much ado about nothing. It would be a good idea if he wore a helmet though, even if then he couldn't feel the wind going through his hair

[Acts5:41]

Oh, Robin, it's ghastly.

Worst of all I had to ride with a parishioner. A church applicant has to submit 5 years of tax returns and undergo financial "counseling" (programming) in order to join.

When they do, they are expected to tithe at minimum. After all, God is a giant slot machine and the more you give to Him, the more He gives to you.

I directly asked about the limo and helicopter and the parishioner said "Oh, Pastor just knows how to speak a word to the Lord."

He started ragging me about tithing, and I asked him how many Bibles he had handed out to the unreached.



[I lost my temper]

[Robinbobbin]

Worst of all I had to ride with a parishioner. A church applicant has to submit 5 years of tax returns and undergo financial "counseling" (programming) in order to join.

]

Wow. That's just insane. Truly insane.

[so-blessed]

We are blessed enough to own a Harley. But we always give thanks to God that He bought it for us & we use it for His glory by going to biker meets on it & witnessing to the lost. Because it's an eyecatching bike, we have lots of people coming up to us & then God frequently gives us an opening for a witness. The same thing happened with the last bike we had, so He uses what belongs to Him. But we boast in Him, not the material things. We know lots of believers on lots of different types of bikes, all serving God in different ways.
However if you saw where we live, you would think we didn't have a penny to our name!!

[penbrat]

In my opinion, this should not bother you at all...or anyone else for that matter. For some, a home of their own is a luxury, or enough money to pay the bills...or even to put gas in the tank. Basing a message on what people have or have not or might not be able to afford to have......thats alot of things that cannot not be said. What the Lord gives us...he hopfully also uses it as inspiration...something to encourage others by. For example, I took a trip across country a few weeks ago...and the inspiration that came from it was bountiful.....but if I thought that I could not mention the trip to my Bible Study....because of the "times" we are in.

Secondly, it isn't even up to us to speculate how someone can afford something or not. It really puts up a roadblock, and we might not hear the message because of it...

[ranman]

Thank you all for your comments. It really helped. Most of you conclude that it very well could be a gift, or maybe he salvaged it, or hey, maybe he saved money for years and this is his one dream or indugence, which I'm totally fine with. He is a good pastor and if the Lord allowed him to reward himself that way who am I to judge. One of you commented on the fact that at times when people see some stuff you own they might assume you are rich. I admit that's the whole reason I posted this, cause the first thing I though to myself when he said that was "hmm, really? You have a Harley huh? And how can you afford a Harley...?"

I'm sure he didn't bring it up to make some of us feel bad. One of you also asked if I would feel that way if I hadn't gone through my layoff...good point, maybe not. All I know that in my life, my situation the Lord has been faithful and has provided and if you heard my story you would agree. So enough of it. I'll no longer allow negative or judgemental thoughts cloud my spiritual growth.

Thanks folks,

You are loved!

Maybe he is a good preacher, and maybe as well he doesn't have discernment for the hurting struggling members of his church. It's not a fatal flaw, but I don't see your hurt as coveting but I do understand why you feel that way.

Many years ago in the mid 80's There were a lot of layoffs in my line of work. I had been laid off probably eight or nine times and wasn't able to get a year in before I was rolling my tool box out the door again. I had to move into a really bad roach infested apartment. I had to scrounge for low paying jobs, but I continued to support my church. I had a friend who was in the same boat as I was and for our Christmas party that year, the singles pastor brought us up and told us in front of everyone that they were going to fix us up with a job.

We didn't know what to think or what to say as they brought us up to the front. And then they handed us both little tin cups with pencils in them.

How do you react to that? Was it good natured joke? We didn't think so. We were hurt by it. and we didn't know how they really felt about us because we had been there a long time and we always supported with our offerings and whatever we could scrape together.

It probably was only someone's harmless idea that we would find it funny.

We didn't stay long that night, and it wasn't long before I decided I didn't want to go there anymore.

It is hard to not be hurt when you are in dire straits in your life and then someone struts up to the pulpit and tells you how you need to sacrifice more. Deny yourself for others. Sign up for our faith promise drive.

I hope I don't sound bitter because I know God will make everything right some day.

I know how you feel and I pray that God gives people more discernment in life. Especially me. I am not knocking the church, only the attitudes of some in the church.

God bless!

[jackson64]

I've never thought of a motorcycle as a rich man's toy. Harleys have always been pricey compared to other bikes, though, and at least the older ones were known to break down all the time so you could expect to be stranded if you traveled with one. Japanese bikes used to be dirt cheap until the U.S. government imposed a high tariff on them. All bikes seem kind of pricey now. Once when I was overseas, in the military, I could have purchased a new Harley for way, way less than it would have cost stateside. It was a special deal for overseas military members that the Harley company was doing. I almost got one. Not everybody pays a lot for their Harley. I think his comment was pretty innocent. I think this is much ado about nothing. It would be a good idea if he wore a helmet though, even if then he couldn't feel the wind going through his hair

Agreed..I've never thought of a Harley as an extravagance, in fact, as hobbies go it is a lot cheaper than most. Just think about those men who play golf, go boating, fishing trips on chartered boats, coin or stamp collecting etc etc etc.....
Why is this any different than a pastor talking about the house he lives in and maybe owns? Won't there be people in the congregation who live in apartments, are renting or even living with family? There might be a similar reaction from those people wondering, " how come my pastor lives in his own home paid for by my/our tithes yet I can only afford to rent?' The answer of course is that we are tithing our 10% as our acknowledgment that all blessings come from God and are truly His, we aren't really tithing to the pastor. All of this is set up as part of a church's by-laws or agreement and arranged and managed by the elders.
I don't find it to be either boastful or insensitive..its just a motorcycle and reconstructed or old harleys from someones garage can be had for a few thousand ( or maybe he's even owned it since before he was a pastor?)
PS: I'm sorry you're struggling--I've been there ( hot dog casserole, ramen noodles and even ketchup packet "tomato soup") but I think your sensitivity because of your struggles may have led you to react a little too much to this one......

PPS: what was the analogy or point he was making, by the way, about the free feeling ofg wind through his hair? Just curious how he tied the harley riding into his sermon/message......

[davidswife]

I do understand as well as anyone about being broke or out of work or being poor. I've done all that. But I don't think we should be mad when someone else has something that is nice. Or when they are blessed. It's one thing when they are just constantly bragging about all they have. I know one can "sing songs to a heavy heart" in a mean way, but to me it sounds like he was sharing a neat experience he had.

[HeIsEnough]

A church applicant has to submit 5 years of tax returns and undergo financial "counseling" (programming) in order to join.

Sounds more like an investment bank, what a disgrace. Those people sound like control freaks.

We didn't know what to think or what to say as they brought us up to the front. And then they handed us both little tin cups with pencils in them.

How in the world could anyone find that funny? I wouldn't have stayed either.

[HeIsEnough]

But I can't help thinking about it. Am I wrong to do so?

Your thoughts...?

Thanks

I can't really say I could think of a message I would give with me saying 'riding my harley with the wind in my hair'. I think its fail for lack of imagination.

Paul was concerned about an aspect of this in I Corinthians 11:22, namely not to shame the poor, which sounds like what you are wondering. Certainly, if a man would even occasionally flaunt things, its to his own shame. I don't know if a passing reference would qualify, but who knows, you must be the judge of that.

[LoudRam]

I have to weigh in on this too. Some people look at our trailer sitting in the driveway and assume we're rich too. (The one in my sig pic). What they don't realize is that my son is severly autistic and blind. He has many sensory issues and going on vacation at a resort or even taking a simple day trip to the shore isn't going to end well because of all the noise. All he'll do is sit on the floor (or ground) and rock if we went to a hotel or the boardwalk. So we go camping. My son always has the same enviroment and surroundings no matter where we go and he can rock all day long at the campsite. Camping is tailor made for us. This is our only splurge and yes things are very tight for us. People also don't realize how cheap travel trailers are. 5th wheels and motorhomes are expensive, trailers aren't. If you were to buy our trailer new today and needed a truck too, that truck would cost you TWICE as much as the trailer. Don't believe me? Try looking on Craig's List under the RV section. You would be amazed how cheap they are. Our trailer was brand new when we got it but it was a left over from the previous year and they sold it to us at about 35% off the sticker price. Which for a trailer is a great discount. God blessed us with that because we weren't looking at new trailers just used ones even though my son and wife are both allergic to cats and dogs. Most people who have pets bring them camping so any dander left over would bother them so a new trailer at a low price was a deal we couldn't pass up. And yes I know you're all looking at my avatar pic and scratching your head. She's a Havanese, they don't shed and are hypoallergenic.

So my point is simple...never judge a book by it's cover or a person by their possessions. You just don't know what their story is. And yes that's my 1/2 ton 2001 Ram. 160,000 miles on the clock and still running. If we were rich that would be a new 3/4 ton hemi powered Ram but we're not.

[Poppycat]

We didn't know what to think or what to say as they brought us up to the front. And then they handed us both little tin cups with pencils in them.

My mother had a saying when we were growing up and expressed envy or dissatisfaction with our lot and it was 'lifted' from scripture. It was 'What's that to you, you follow Me'. It was a good perspective to have and others here have said much the same thing, if he is a good pastor..... Having said that my heart aches for you Ranman to be subjected to what I can only think of as such unkindness and lack of charity and I don't think you sounded bitter, just hurt