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Thread: Question @ God hardening people's hearts

  1. #1
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    Default Question @ God hardening people's hearts

    If someone would help me w/ this, I'd really appreciate it: why would God purposely harden someone's heart if he/she was ungodly/unrighteous, etc? If God grants us the ability to make our own decisions (however unrighteous), why would He purposely harden someone's heart so he/she would not be able to repent and come to Christ (or in Old Testament times, come to know the Lord God)? It leaves me with the sense that God will manipulate others to accomplish His objectives, ie, hardening Pharoah's heart so he wouldn't let the children of Israel go.

    I've always been stumped by this and I find it unsettling, but what's more unsettling is the fact that I can't seem to reconcile it.........

    I'd appreciate your assistance and I'll most definitely be praying about it this weekend.

    Thanks
    Peace, love, life, and kindness to ALL of God's Creatures

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    God doesn't harden anyone's heart. God allows people the free will choices which can lead to a hardening of the heart but that's a different thing entirely from God "making" someone's heart hard.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/hardened-heart.html
    Question: "What are the causes and solutions for a hardened heart?"

    Answer:
    To better understand the causes and solutions for a hardened heart, it’s important to understand the broad biblical meaning of the word “heart.” The Bible considers the heart to be the hub of human personality, producing the things we would ordinarily ascribe to the “mind.” For example, Scripture informs us that grief (John 14:1); desires (Matthew 5:28); joy (Ephesians 5:19); understanding (Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15); thoughts and reasoning (Genesis 6:5; Hebrews 4:12; Mark 2:8); and, most importantly, faith and belief (Hebrews 3:12; Romans 10:10; Mark 11:23) are all products of the heart. Also, Jesus tells us that the heart is a repository for good and evil and that what comes out of our mouth – good or bad – begins in the heart (Luke 6:43-45).

    Considering this, it’s easy to see how a hardened heart can dull a person’s ability to perceive and understand. Anyone’s heart can harden, even faithful Christians. In fact, in Mark 8:17-19 we see Jesus’ own disciples suffering from this malady. Concerned with their meager bread supply, it was clear that each of them had forgotten how Jesus had just fed thousands with only a few loaves. Questioning them as to the hardness of their hearts, Christ spells out for us the characteristics of this spiritual heart condition as an inability to see, understand, hear, and remember. Regarding this last criterion, too often we forget how God has blessed us and what He has done for us. Similar to the disciples in this instance or the Israelites wandering in the wilderness, when a new calamity arises in our lives, our hearts often fill with fear and concern. Sadly, this simply reveals to God the little faith we have in His promise to take care of us (Matthew 6:32-33; Philippians 4:19). We need to remember not only the many times God has graciously provided for us in our time of need, but also what He has told us: “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you” (Deuteronomy 31:6; Hebrews 13:5).

    Sin causes hearts to grow hard, especially continual and unrepentant sinning. Now we know that “if we confess our sins, [Jesus] is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins” (1 John 1:9). However, if we don’t confess our sins, they have a cumulative and desensitizing effect on the conscience, making it difficult to even distinguish right from wrong. And this sinful and hardened heart is tantamount to the “seared conscience” Paul speaks of in 1Timothy 4:1-2. Scripture makes it clear that if we relentlessly continue to engage in sin, there will come a time when God will give us over to our “debased mind” and let us have it our way. The apostle Paul writes about God’s wrath of abandonment in his letter to the Romans where we see that the “godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth” are eventually given over to the sinful desires of their hardened hearts (Romans 1:18-24).

    Pride will also cause our hearts to harden. The “pride of your heart has deceived you…you who say to yourself, ‘who can bring me down to the ground’…I will bring you down declares the LORD” (Obadiah 3). Also, the root of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness was his pride and arrogance. Even in the face of tremendous proofs and witnessing God’s powerful hand at work, Pharaoh’s hardened heart caused him to deny the sovereignty of the one, true God. And when King Nebuchadnezzar’s “heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory…until he acknowledged that the Most High God is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and sets over them anyone He wishes” (Daniel 5:20-21). Accordingly, when we’re inclined to do it our way, thinking we can “go it on our own,” it would be wise to recall what King Solomon taught us in Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.”

    So, what then is the antidote for a heart condition such as this? First and foremost, we have to recognize the effect that this spiritual disease has on us. And God will help us to see our heart’s condition when we ask Him: “Search me O God, and know my heart…see if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” (Psalm 139:2-24). God can heal any heart once we recognize our disobedience and repent of our sins. But true repentance is more than simply a resolute feeling of steadfast determination. Repentance manifests itself in a changed life.

    After repenting of our sins, hard hearts begin to be cured when we study God’s Word. “How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word. I seek you with all my heart…I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you” (Psalm 119:9-11). The Bible is our manual for living as it is “God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). If we are to live life to the fullest as God intended, we need to study and obey God’s written Word which not only keeps a heart soft and pure, but allows us to be “blessed” in whatever we do (Joshua 1:8; James 1:25).

    Hearts can also become hardened when we suffer setbacks and disappointments in life. No one is immune to trials here on earth. Yet, just as steel is forged by a blacksmith’s hammer, so too can our faith be strengthened by the trials we encounter in the valleys of life. As Paul encouraged the Romans: “but we also rejoice in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us” (Romans 5:3-5).

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



  3. #3
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    Default but He says He will......

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve53 View Post
    God doesn't harden anyone's heart. God allows people the free will choices which can lead to a hardening of the heart but that's a different thing entirely from God "making" someone's heart hard.
    http://www.gotquestions.org/hardened-heart.html
    Question: "What are the causes and solutions for a hardened heart?"

    Answer:
    To better understand the causes and solutions for a hardened heart, it’s important to understand the broad biblical meaning of the word “heart.” The Bible considers the heart to be the hub of human personality, producing the things we would ordinarily ascribe to the “mind.” For example, Scripture informs us that grief (John 14:1); desires (Matthew 5:28); joy (Ephesians 5:19); understanding (Isaiah 6:10; Matthew 13:15); thoughts and reasoning (Genesis 6:5; Hebrews 4:12; Mark 2:8); and, most importantly, faith and belief (Hebrews 3:12; Romans 10:10; Mark 11:23) are all products of the heart. Also, Jesus tells us that the heart is a repository for good and evil and that what comes out of our mouth – good or bad – begins in the heart (Luke 6:43-45).

    Considering this, it’s easy to see how a hardened heart can dull a person’s ability to perceive and understand. Anyone’s heart can harden, even faithful Christians. In fact, in Mark 8:17-19 we see Jesus’ own disciples suffering from this malady. Concerned with their meager bread supply, it was clear that each of them had forgotten how Jesus had just fed thousands with only a few loaves. Questioning them as to the hardness of their hearts, Christ spells out for us the characteristics of this spiritual heart condition as an inability to see, understand, hear, and remember. Regarding this last criterion, too often we forget how God has blessed us and what He has done for us. Similar to the disciples in this instance or the Israelites wandering in the wilderness, when a new calamity arises in our lives, our hearts often fill with fear and concern. Sadly, this simply reveals to God the little faith we have in His promise to take care of us (Matthew 6:32-33; Philippians 4:19). We need to remember not only the many times God has graciously provided for us in our time of need, but also what He has told us: “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you” (Deuteronomy 31:6; Hebrews 13:5).

    Sin causes hearts to grow hard, especially continual and unrepentant sinning. Now we know that “if we confess our sins, [Jesus] is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins” (1 John 1:9). However, if we don’t confess our sins, they have a cumulative and desensitizing effect on the conscience, making it difficult to even distinguish right from wrong. And this sinful and hardened heart is tantamount to the “seared conscience” Paul speaks of in 1Timothy 4:1-2. Scripture makes it clear that if we relentlessly continue to engage in sin, there will come a time when God will give us over to our “debased mind” and let us have it our way. The apostle Paul writes about God’s wrath of abandonment in his letter to the Romans where we see that the “godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth” are eventually given over to the sinful desires of their hardened hearts (Romans 1:18-24).

    Pride will also cause our hearts to harden. The “pride of your heart has deceived you…you who say to yourself, ‘who can bring me down to the ground’…I will bring you down declares the LORD” (Obadiah 3). Also, the root of Pharaoh’s hard-heartedness was his pride and arrogance. Even in the face of tremendous proofs and witnessing God’s powerful hand at work, Pharaoh’s hardened heart caused him to deny the sovereignty of the one, true God. And when King Nebuchadnezzar’s “heart became arrogant and hardened with pride, he was deposed from his royal throne and stripped of his glory…until he acknowledged that the Most High God is sovereign over the kingdoms of men and sets over them anyone He wishes” (Daniel 5:20-21). Accordingly, when we’re inclined to do it our way, thinking we can “go it on our own,” it would be wise to recall what King Solomon taught us in Proverbs 14:12 and 16:25: “There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.”

    So, what then is the antidote for a heart condition such as this? First and foremost, we have to recognize the effect that this spiritual disease has on us. And God will help us to see our heart’s condition when we ask Him: “Search me O God, and know my heart…see if there is any offensive way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting” (Psalm 139:2-24). God can heal any heart once we recognize our disobedience and repent of our sins. But true repentance is more than simply a resolute feeling of steadfast determination. Repentance manifests itself in a changed life.

    After repenting of our sins, hard hearts begin to be cured when we study God’s Word. “How can a young man keep his way pure? By living according to your word. I seek you with all my heart…I have hidden your word in my heart that I might not sin against you” (Psalm 119:9-11). The Bible is our manual for living as it is “God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness” (2 Timothy 3:16). If we are to live life to the fullest as God intended, we need to study and obey God’s written Word which not only keeps a heart soft and pure, but allows us to be “blessed” in whatever we do (Joshua 1:8; James 1:25).

    Hearts can also become hardened when we suffer setbacks and disappointments in life. No one is immune to trials here on earth. Yet, just as steel is forged by a blacksmith’s hammer, so too can our faith be strengthened by the trials we encounter in the valleys of life. As Paul encouraged the Romans: “but we also rejoice in our sufferings because we know that suffering produces perseverance; perseverance, character; and character, hope. And hope does not disappoint us, because God has poured out His love into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, whom He has given us” (Romans 5:3-5).
    God did say He'd harden Pharoah's heart; He said it in Exodus 4:21 & 7:3; He specifically says He will.....
    Peace, love, life, and kindness to ALL of God's Creatures

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    Mary - I can't copy the answer from this contraption I'm on now but here is the link: http://www.gotquestions.org/God-hard...aoh-heart.html

    Steve's article touched on it, Pharaoh was not an innocent, he had already hardened his own heart past the point of repentance, God just *speeded up* that process.
    "...earnestly contend for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints." Jude 1:3b


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    Quote Originally Posted by iSong6:3 View Post
    Mary - I can't copy the answer from this contraption I'm on now but here is the link: http://www.gotquestions.org/God-hard...aoh-heart.html

    Steve's article touched on it, Pharaoh was not an innocent, he had already hardened his own heart past the point of repentance, God just *speeded up* that process.


    Kind of like, OK, Pharaoh, you want it, you got it. Dare I say, "so let it be written (in Pharaoh's heart) so let it be done!"
    There is One King, and He is not this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XMaryX View Post
    God did say He'd harden Pharoah's heart; He said it in Exodus 4:21 & 7:3; He specifically says He will.....
    He said He would harden his heart so he would not let Israel go. Like OWL stated, the Lord lets men go where they want to go sooner in some cases. He is the one who holds men back, if the Lord did not, we'd tumble right into the Tribulation. Its like holding back flood waters with a dam. Evil is like the floodwater, and the Lord is like a dam holding them back from doing the evil they would do if nothing held them back. When the Lord allows, these type of men spiral down to the level of evil that is in their heart already.

    Like the Lord said about the flood, He will only contend with men for so long, all their inclinations are toward evil. If He let men go, we'd see many pharoahs around, and the Tribulation will show it.
    Don't panic! Just be Rapture Ready.

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    Quote Originally Posted by XMaryX View Post
    God did say He'd harden Pharoah's heart; He said it in Exodus 4:21 & 7:3; He specifically says He will.....
    I hope the great replies you received in my absence have answered your question.

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



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    Good answers everyone!!! Sadly I have seen too many people choose to let their hearts harden...how sad.

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    That was a great question and something I had always wondered about also. Thanks to everyone for the clarification.

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    I also see the possibility of a connection with the scripture verse (I think Ecclesiastes, but am not sure) where God says He will not always strive with man. In terms of an individual God may simply stop calling to or trying to work in him and then the individual 'hardens' in the place where he is. In Christ we are soft like clay and easily (hopefully) molded.
    Ph 3:15 (paraphrased):...And if on some point you and I think differently, that too God will make clear to us. Only let us live up to what we have already attained.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OnceWasLost View Post
    Kind of like, OK, Pharaoh, you want it, you got it. Dare I say, "so let it be written (in Pharaoh's heart) so let it be done!"


    Its basically the same thing as the 'giving over' in Romans 1:28

    And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands.
    Day to day pours forth speech, And night to night reveals knowledge.
    (Psa 19:1b-2)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post


    Its basically the same thing as the 'giving over' in Romans 1:28

    And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,


    Indeed! It's right there in The Word.
    There is One King, and He is not this guy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hootmon View Post


    Its basically the same thing as the 'giving over' in Romans 1:28

    And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper,
    Very nice, easy to understand, concise, scriptural answer!
    One Day He's Coming! Oh Glorious Day!

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    Yay! Dear everyone.....

    thank you; thank you all for your insight; what I'm taking away from it is that since God knows the end from the beginning, He knows who WOULD repent and who WOULD NOT repent, so that's probably why He 'catalyzed' (sp??) the process of Pharoah's heart hardening.................

    I guess I look back at myself and my sins and how lost I was, how ensnared by the enemy I was, and wonder why God didn't harden my heart? It blows my mind how longsuffering He is, because I still can't believe how blessed I am and it scares the heck out of me to realize how lost I was, how close to the edge I was of being this wretched, unsaved person.......in my naivete, I get to thinking that it's possible for anyone to repent and come to Christ; it simply blows my mind how people cannot.....it makes me very sad, as a human being; can't imagine how sad it makes the Lord...........thank you all for your help; have a blessed Easter!!
    Peace, love, life, and kindness to ALL of God's Creatures

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    Notice that God didn't do it straight away. At first Pharaoh hardens his own heart against what he sees done by Moses it wasn't God here.

    EX 8:12 After Moses and Aaron left Pharaoh, Moses cried out to the LORD about the frogs he had brought on Pharaoh. 13 And the LORD did what Moses asked. The frogs died in the houses, in the courtyards and in the fields. 14 They were piled into heaps, and the land reeked of them. 15 But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart and would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said.


    There again we see Pharaoh still having choice and control. Pharaoh again hardens his own heart NOT God!

    EX 8:30 Then Moses left Pharaoh and prayed to the LORD, 31 and the LORD did what Moses asked: The flies left Pharaoh and his officials and his people; not a fly remained. 32 But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart and would not let the people go.

    The first time God hardens Pharaoh's heart is at this point in the scripture below. So there have been a few plagues that have occurred already where Pharaoh had his own choice.

    EX 9:10 So they took soot from a furnace and stood before Pharaoh. Moses tossed it into the air, and festering boils broke out on men and animals. 11 The magicians could not stand before Moses because of the boils that were on them and on all the Egyptians. 12 But the LORD hardened Pharaoh's heart and he would not listen to Moses and Aaron, just as the LORD had said to Moses.

    So Pharoah was not from the outset controlled by God but he was given every chance to choose on his own at first. Pharaoh refused. It is from this point on God hardens Pharaoh's heart.

    So you will see the scripture reflecting this by saying clearly "God hardened Pharoah's heart".

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    Hardening His Heart

    Q. My question has to do with what the Bible refers to as “hardening of hearts”. There are many examples in the Bible of people hardening their hearts toward God. For instance Ephesians 4:17-18 (NLT) states, “Their closed minds are full of darkness; they are far away from the life of God because they have shut their minds and hardened their hearts against him”. My understanding of verses like these are that our hearts are hardened toward God and accepting Jesus as our savior because of our sinful and ungodly behavior.
    Other verses state that God hardened someone’s heart. For example, in God’s dealing with Moses and Pharaoh in Exodus 4:21 God stated, “When you arrive back in Egypt, go to Pharaoh and perform all the miracles I have empowered you to do. But I will harden his heart so he will refuse to let the people go.” My understanding of this is that God hardened Pharaoh’s heart so that pharaoh would, “see His power and that His fame might spread throughout the earth,” (Exodus 9:16). Am I correct in saying that God, who knows the end from the beginning, knew that Pharaoh would never turn to Him so God used Pharaoh for this purpose?
    A. In 2 Peter 3:9 we can find God’s definitive statement on this subject. He doesn’t want that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. The fact that many will perish shows that it isn’t God’s choice but ours.
    That said, God often helps people carry their own will to its extreme conclusion. For example, people who want God out of their lives will find that He’s helped them fulfill their wish by banishing them from His Presence forever. In 2 Thes. 2:9-11 we see people who are perishing because they refused to believe the truth and be saved. Since they refused to believe the truth God helps them believe the lie.
    It’s the same with Pharaoh. He claimed to be a god and as such said to Moses, “Who is the Lord that I should obey Him and let Israel go. I do not know the Lord and will not let Israel go.” (Exodus 5:2) A study of Egyptian mythology shows that the plagues of Egypt were judgments against the gods of Egypt. The last one was against Pharaoh himself. Having claimed to be God’s equal by defying Him, God helped Pharaoh solidify his defiance so He could demonstrate His superiority over all the gods of Egypt. The priests of Egypt saw this and tried to dissuade Pharaoh, but he wouldn’t listen (Exodus 8:19). As a result, Egypt was destroyed and its gods were shown to be impotent.

    http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bibl...ing-his-heart/

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



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    Matthew 7:13-14
    The Golden Rule
    13 k "Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 1 "Because narrow is the gate and 2 difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

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    I'm wondering: Can a believer's heart be hardened?

    gin
    Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy flight!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ginseng View Post
    I'm wondering: Can a believer's heart be hardened?
    In what way or what context?
    Against Satan? Or something or someone else?

    Come soon Lord Jesus - Take us Safely Home

    John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

    Psalm 19:14 Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in thy sight, O LORD, my strength, and my redeemer.



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    ... against someone else or even God.
    Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy flight!

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