Question about what God gives us to handle.

[-wrEk-]

Hi all,

I've always hear people say, "God won't give you more than you can handle." I have to ask, what is this referring to?

I mean, people get into car accidents, live depressing lifestyles, numerous health concerns and let's not forget the contemplation of suicide. I'm trying to group God into such negative behavior a person might express, but if it's God's will your time is up, isn't that just it?

I mean, if a child of 18 years of age is riding in a car with the whole family, say of 5; and there is a accident that kills everyone except him/her, how is that not more than the child could handle?

This thread is a two part question as well, but if a person considers or acts out suicide, is the salvation lost? Will he/she not make it to Heaven anymore?

Thanks.

[meshee]

Hi wrEk,

I found two passages on GotQuestions.org that will probably answer better than I can.

Question: "Does God promise to not give us more than we can handle?"

Answer: First Corinthians 10:13 in the NKJV reads, “No temptation has overtaken you except such as is common to man; but God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will also make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it.” This Scripture teaches us a powerful principle. If we belong to Him, God will not allow any difficulty to come into our lives that we are not capable of bearing.

So, anything that comes our way, anything that tempts us, any tragedy that befalls us—we are capable of overcoming it and achieving spiritual victory. That does not mean it will always be easy. Quite the contrary—the fact that we may need a “way of escape” indicates that God sometimes allows difficult trials to come into our lives. We may not believe that we can overcome it, we may doubt our own strength to prevail, and we may even fail in the temptation. That does not mean, though, that we are not capable of overcoming that particular temptation. Whether it is a temptation to sin or a temptation to doubt God, God promises that we will be able to overcome it.

But what does it mean to “overcome” trials? It means the trials do not overcome our faith or our position as children of God, and we come through the trials intact. Our eternal destiny is not in danger because we are kept by the Holy Spirit, who was given to us as a down payment on our salvation (Ephesians 1:13-14). No trial can overcome that because it is of God. Therefore, the child of God will stand firm through the trials and come out on the other side still in God’s hand. This is proof that our salvation is real and our reward in heaven awaits us. James 1:12 assures us, “Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.”



Question: "What is the Christian view of suicide? What does the Bible say about suicide?"

Answer: The Bible mentions six specific people who committed suicide: Abimelech (Judges 9:54), Saul (1 Samuel 31:4), Saul's armor-bearer (1 Samuel 31:4-6), Ahithophel (2 Samuel 17:23), Zimri (1 Kings 16:18), and Judas (Matthew 27:5). Five of them were wicked, sinful men (not enough is said regarding Saul's armor-bearer to make a judgment as to his character). Some consider Samson an instance of suicide (Judges 16:26-31), but Samson's goal was to kill the Philistines, not himself. The Bible views suicide as equal to murder, which is what it is—self-murder. God is the only one who is to decide when and how a person should die.

According to the Bible, suicide is not what determines whether a person gains entrance into heaven. If an unsaved person commits suicide, he has done nothing but “expedite” his journey to hell. However, that person who committed suicide will ultimately be in hell for rejecting salvation through Christ, not because he committed suicide. What does the Bible say about a Christian who commits suicide? The Bible teaches that from the moment we truly believe in Christ, we are guaranteed eternal life (John 3:16). According to the Bible, Christians can know beyond any doubt that they possess eternal life (1 John 5:13). Nothing can separate a Christian from God’s love (Romans 8:38-39). If no “created thing” can separate a Christian from God’s love, and even a Christian who commits suicide is a “created thing,” then not even suicide can separate a Christian from God’s love. Jesus died for all of our sins, and if a true Christian, in a time of spiritual attack and weakness, commits suicide, that would still be a sin covered by the blood of Christ.

Suicide is still a serious sin against God. According to the Bible, suicide is murder; it is always wrong. Serious doubts should be raised about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his/her own life. Christians are called to live their lives for God, and the decision on when to die is God’s and God’s alone. Although it is not describing suicide, 1 Corinthians 3:15 is probably a good description of what happens to a Christian who commits suicide: “He himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.”

I hope that helps!

meshee

[jonshaff]

I agree, in part...but a "trial" is different then a "temptation"

God can test, try and refine us through trials..but..

The Bible says he won't tempt us with evil... James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

I believe that this verse: 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

...is strictly talking about victory over sin, sinful acts, and sinful nature...victory over temptation...an escape of the snares of the devil.

God will give us more then we can handle...through trials...but that is where we recognize we need HIS strength...HIS courage...HIS power and peace... His patience..HIS love...

I could be wrong, though, if "temptation" is also translated at trial or test and if it were not of evil..I.e. temptation of worldly desires, lust of the flesh, pride if life...

Then I suppose temptation can be a synonym for trial

[sunshine2777]

Serious doubts should be raised about the genuineness of faith of anyone who claimed to be a Christian yet committed suicide. There is no circumstance that can justify someone, especially a Christian, taking his/her own life.

I have to speak up and just disagree with this thought. This is so wrong. It's a spiritual battle and when it gets to this point for a believer, it can get extremely dark. No, there is nothing that justifies someone taking their life, especially a Christian. That is true. However, lack of justification of the action should not bring into question one's heart and whether or not they are saved. Suicide is driven by lack of hope and a feeling of despair. It's driven by emotions. And there are some very painful emotional places that thankfully many do not have to go in their life time this side of heaven. Maybe the christian believes but is a "baby" christian and doesn't know how to combat the feelings, etc. Maybe they dont know the difference between believing and living a life of faith. Sanctification is a life long process and it takes time to learn how to avoid or how to handle going down the road of suicidal thoughts when things are very bad. Then add in the spiritual compenent whispering in the christian's ear, the one who is rooting for the christian to stop the pain and "go home to Jesus", etc and, depending upon where the believer is at in every aspect of their life, they may give into the temptation to murder themselves.

We make a point not to try and judge others salvation, and yes we do look at the fruit, this is one moment of decision just like any other where the wrong decision could easily be made. Ever made a really bad emotional decision before, that you know is wrong, but you do it anyways? And you are saved and a believer in Christ? Point made.

I believe that the tendency to go toward suicidal thoughts is a weakness in many people, including Christians. It was before salvation and that weakness doesnt leave because they get saved. The enemy knows our weaknesses and he does play on them as long as he sees that they work. So I would encourage all christians to have grace and mercy with our brothers and sisters who may show tendencies of going down this road. Teach, encourage, support and love on them. Its one huge battle they find themselves in. It's a great "victory" but not the ultimate when the enemy gets one of God's children to take out their own life right in front of God and others. That's one sure way to stop that person's witness for Christ.

Sorry if I elaborated too much, but it was too important not to speak up.

[meshee]

I agree, in part...but a "trial" is different then a "temptation"

God can test, try and refine us through trials..but..

The Bible says he won't tempt us with evil... James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

I believe that this verse: 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

...is strictly talking about victory over sin, sinful acts, and sinful nature...victory over temptation...an escape of the snares of the devil.

God will give us more then we can handle...through trials...but that is where we recognize we need HIS strength...HIS courage...HIS power and peace... His patience..HIS love...

I could be wrong, though, if "temptation" is also translated at trial or test and if it were not of evil..I.e. temptation of worldly desires, lust of the flesh, pride if life...

Then I suppose temptation can be a synonym for trial

I certainly don't disagree with you, and most importantly we need to seek HIM first and foremost in any trial or temptation.

But I did find this! I am not real good with the whole Greek or Hebrew Lexicon thing, but found it of interest.

Vincent's Word Studies

Temptation (πειρασμόν)

It is a mistake to define this word as only solicitation to evil. It means trial of any kind, without reference to its moral quality. Thus, Genesis 22:1 (Sept.), "God did tempt Abraham;" "This he said to prove him" (John 6:6); Paul and Timothy assayed to go to Bithynia (Acts 16:7); "Examine yourselves" (2 Corinthians 13:5). Here, generally of all situations and circumstances which furnish an occasion for sin. We cannot pray God not to tempt us to sin, "for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man" (James 1:13).


meshee

[meshee]

I have to speak up and just disagree with this thought. This is so wrong. It's a spiritual battle and when it gets to this point for a believer, it can get extremely dark. No, there is nothing that justifies someone taking their life, especially a Christian. That is true. However, lack of justification of the action should not bring into question one's heart and whether or not they are saved. Suicide is driven by lack of hope and a feeling of despair. It's driven by emotions. And there are some very painful emotional places that thankfully many do not have to go in their life time this side of heaven. Maybe the christian believes but is a "baby" christian and doesn't know how to combat the feelings, etc. Maybe they dont know the difference between believing and living a life of faith. Sanctification is a life long process and it takes time to learn how to avoid or how to handle going down the road of suicidal thoughts when things are very bad. Then add in the spiritual compenent whispering in the christian's ear, the one who is rooting for the christian to stop the pain and "go home to Jesus", etc and, depending upon where the believer is at in every aspect of their life, they may give into the temptation to murder themselves.

We make a point not to try and judge others salvation, and yes we do look at the fruit, this is one moment of decision just like any other where the wrong decision could easily be made. Ever made a really bad emotional decision before, that you know is wrong, but you do it anyways? And you are saved and a believer in Christ? Point made.

I believe that the tendency to go toward suicidal thoughts is a weakness in many people, including Christians. It was before salvation and that weakness doesnt leave because they get saved. The enemy knows our weaknesses and he does play on them as long as he sees that they work. So I would encourage all christians to have grace and mercy with our brothers and sisters who may show tendencies of going down this road. Teach, encourage, support and love on them. Its one huge battle they find themselves in. It's a great "victory" but not the ultimate when the enemy gets one of God's children to take out their own life right in front of God and others. That's one sure way to stop that person's witness for Christ.

Sorry if I elaborated too much, but it was too important not to speak up.

I totally agree with you, hence why I colored in that specific part of the quote. I am not sure I read the "Answer" as fully as I thought or I would have struck that part out. Thank you sunshine for pointing that out. I, in no way, advocate judging another's salvation. I am sorry if this caused confusion. I cannot go back and edit it now, maybe one of the Mods would be so kind to strike out that part!



meshee

[jonshaff]

I certainly don't disagree with you, and most importantly we need to seek HIM first and foremost in any trial or temptation.

But I did find this! I am not real good with the whole Greek or Hebrew Lexicon thing, but found it of interest.

Vincent's Word Studies

Temptation (πειρασμόν)

It is a mistake to define this word as only solicitation to evil. It means trial of any kind, without reference to its moral quality. Thus, Genesis 22:1 (Sept.), "God did tempt Abraham;" "This he said to prove him" (John 6:6); Paul and Timothy assayed to go to Bithynia (Acts 16:7); "Examine yourselves" (2 Corinthians 13:5). Here, generally of all situations and circumstances which furnish an occasion for sin. We cannot pray God not to tempt us to sin, "for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man" (James 1:13).


meshee

I was also going to post that in context, that chapter refers to idolatry and being tempted with evil(lust of the flesh, things of the world)... 1 Corinthians 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.... not trials

[TimothyK]

I have to speak up and just disagree with this thought. This is so wrong. It's a spiritual battle and when it gets to this point for a believer, it can get extremely dark. No, there is nothing that justifies someone taking their life, especially a Christian. That is true. However, lack of justification of the action should not bring into question one's heart and whether or not they are saved. Suicide is driven by lack of hope and a feeling of despair. It's driven by emotions. And there are some very painful emotional places that thankfully many do not have to go in their life time this side of heaven. Maybe the christian believes but is a "baby" christian and doesn't know how to combat the feelings, etc. Maybe they dont know the difference between believing and living a life of faith. Sanctification is a life long process and it takes time to learn how to avoid or how to handle going down the road of suicidal thoughts when things are very bad. Then add in the spiritual compenent whispering in the christian's ear, the one who is rooting for the christian to stop the pain and "go home to Jesus", etc and, depending upon where the believer is at in every aspect of their life, they may give into the temptation to murder themselves.

We make a point not to try and judge others salvation, and yes we do look at the fruit, this is one moment of decision just like any other where the wrong decision could easily be made. Ever made a really bad emotional decision before, that you know is wrong, but you do it anyways? And you are saved and a believer in Christ? Point made.

I believe that the tendency to go toward suicidal thoughts is a weakness in many people, including Christians. It was before salvation and that weakness doesnt leave because they get saved. The enemy knows our weaknesses and he does play on them as long as he sees that they work. So I would encourage all christians to have grace and mercy with our brothers and sisters who may show tendencies of going down this road. Teach, encourage, support and love on them. Its one huge battle they find themselves in. It's a great "victory" but not the ultimate when the enemy gets one of God's children to take out their own life right in front of God and others. That's one sure way to stop that person's witness for Christ.

Sorry if I elaborated too much, but it was too important not to speak up.

I'm sorry, but you're judging people for judging people. On what basis can you say that it's wrong for Christians to practice good discernment?

If a man who is purportedly a Christian wakes up very angry one day and takes out his frustrations by murdering several people, do we keep our mouth shut concerning this person?

Perhaps he was a 'baby' Christian and doesn't know how to handle his feelings, etc? Maybe they don't know the difference between believing and living a life of faith?

Because if they don't know the difference between a saving faith in Jesus Christ and living a life of faith, there is a very legitimate reason to question the salvation of such an individual.

That person needs help dearly. That person needs a good Christian to make it clear to them so as to be certain and without question where they stand, for their immortal soul and their eternal destination is in question!

We do not assume someone is saved. We make certain.

With this world order under the control of Satan and with the gravity of their eternal destination at steak, being discerning and judging righteously is being kind and gracious to your fellow man in telling them the truth and delivering to them the Good News.

Deception abounds today. No one needs to tell you that. Suicide is murder. It is wrong under any circumstances.

It is possible to be a Christian, to be saved, and in a moment of weakness or mental break down to do the unthinkable. Nothing in Heaven or on Earth, in Hell, or in all of creation can separate a born again believer in Jesus Christ from their redeemer. Nothing.

But it isn't wrong to practice good discernment, to question the salvation of anyone who commits very great and heinous acts of sin or anybody who seems to have an unclear understanding of salvation in Jesus Christ.

It might save their everlasting life from the torments of Hell and the Lake of Fire.

[ginseng]

Whenever I see that statement about God not giving us more than we can handle,
I think about Paul's statement in 2 Cor 1:8 ~

We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life.

During one of the most intense trials of my life, I clung to this verse. It gave me
so much comfort.

... far beyond our ability to endure...

Far beyond!!!

[jeri559]

We do not assume someone is saved. We make certain.

With this world order under the control of Satan and with the gravity of their eternal destination at steak, being discerning and judging righteously is being kind and gracious to your fellow man in telling them the truth and delivering to them the Good News.

Deception abounds today. No one needs to tell you that. Suicide is murder. It is wrong under any circumstances.

It is possible to be a Christian, to be saved, and in a moment of weakness or mental break down to do the unthinkable. Nothing in Heaven or on Earth, in Hell, or in all of creation can separate a born again believer in Jesus Christ from their redeemer. Nothing.

But it isn't wrong to practice good discernment, to question the salvation of anyone who commits very great and heinous acts of sin or anybody who seems to have an unclear understanding of salvation in Jesus Christ.

It might save their everlasting life from the torments of Hell and the Lake of Fire.

TimothyK, I agree with you. As humans we experience pain in our life, some more than others. Suicide is a sin. Born Again Christians have a way out...a life-line through Christ and way out of dark despair. Christians are called to use discernment and not be called out as judging others lest we risk sharing the gospel of salvation. Eternity and souls are at stake.

[jonshaff]

Just think of it like this, suicide is murder...murder is sin...sin stems from temptation...but God's Word says 1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

...therefore God will give us an escape, other them suicide.

[Acts5:41]

I didn't read the other posts.

I think most people would have found my life completely unfair. Maimed before I was even born (brain damage, I can't even drive), massively neglected (to the point that child services got involved and my birth mother lost custody), not to mention the alcoholic parent endangering me until she lost custody. My own mother cut and run when she realized how much she had damaged me.

Not very fair!

Add to that, my father remarried and his new wife, and her kids, were abusive. Not "unkind" - outright abusive. On top of my own disabilities. I was told I wasn't good enough to eat their snack foods, etc... when they weren't hitting me. I had no privacy.

I wasn't molested, praise God, but that's about all you can say. When I got out of the hospital for a suicidal depression, one of the kids (about my age), said, bitterly "I wish you HAD killed yourself".

Looking back through the lens of forgiveness, they had a lot of baggage, no one had ever learned to express anger or emotions in a healthy way. It was easier to torture me than to deal with their own pain. When I moved out, in fact, someone had a nervous breakdown. And trust me, God had me praying for them every day, like it or not. Luke 6:28. That's how I feel qualified to post in the forgiveness threads.

They thought I was "faking" my own disability, and even my Dad was recruited into trying to "beat it out of her".

All this before I was even 8.

But you know what? When I met God I realized HE would never fail me. NEVER. I clung to Him very tightly and grew my faith though all those years of hell, even when one of them stole my Bible and started tearing it up (I still have it).

And now my abusers are all living very unhappy lives, and I'm handing out Bibles. I have something they may never have, and it's BECAUSE they hurt me.

[Acts5:41]

For the people claiming that only the "weak" have problems with suicide, I would ask, "Have you been suicidal?"

It is very easy to judge something you do not know.

I battle suicidal depressions on a regular basis. They have nothing to do with my faith, and everything to do with my malfunctioning brain. It's very similar to a seizure, actually - they have done studies on people, in a brain scanner.

People in a suicidal depression have a different-looking brain than the other people. It is very different. Parts that should be dark are lit up. Parts that should be lit, are dark. And that's just using our technology.

A suicidal person has profound chemistry changes in their brain that cause a debilitating sadness and inability to hope. It is VERY VERY damaging to claim it is a faith issue. You don't know that. Losing one's faith during a depression is common, but it's not the cause, it's an effect.

I have had horrible people, including my own family, treat me as though I was some weak, sniveling, thing - when the strongest and most difficult thing I did was to stay alive every day.

I have to take 3 medications a day just to have a semblance of normal functioning. I have many side effects, some of which could kill me.

Please do not throw rocks at, or condemn, people who battle suicide. You wouldn't accuse someone having a heart attack of lacking faith. You wouldn't tell someone having a stroke that they just needed to pray more. You would treat it as an emergency and contact 911. Suicidal depressions are no different.

A SUICIDAL DEPRESSION IS NOT A FAITH ISSUE. It is a medical emergency that may cause faith problems.

t would ask you to please provide the Bible verse that says Jesus wants you do to so. All the ones I find say things like Matthew 7:1.

[jonshaff]

For the people claiming that only the "weak" have problems with suicide, I would ask, "Have you been suicidal?"

It is very easy to judge something you do not know.

I battle suicidal depressions on a regular basis. They have nothing to do with my faith, and everything to do with my malfunctioning brain. It's very similar to a seizure, actually - they have done studies on people, in a brain scanner.

People in a suicidal depression have a different-looking brain than the other people. It is very different. Parts that should be dark are lit up. Parts that should be lit, are dark. And that's just using our technology.

A suicidal person has profound chemistry changes in their brain that cause a debilitating sadness and inability to hope. It is VERY VERY damaging to claim it is a faith issue. You don't know that. Losing one's faith during a depression is common, but it's not the cause, it's an effect.

I have had horrible people, including my own family, treat me as though I was some weak, sniveling, thing - when the strongest and most difficult thing I did was to stay alive every day.

I have to take 3 medications a day just to have a semblance of normal functioning. I have many side effects, some of which could kill me.

Please do not throw rocks at, or condemn, people who battle suicide. You wouldn't accuse someone having a heart attack of lacking faith. You wouldn't tell someone having a stroke that they just needed to pray more. You would treat it as an emergency and contact 911. Suicidal depressions are no different.

A SUICIDAL DEPRESSION IS NOT A FAITH ISSUE. It is a medical emergency that may cause faith problems.

t would ask you to please provide the Bible verse that says Jesus wants you do to so. All the ones I find say things like Matthew 7:1.

Then is it safe to say that your "escape" was through Jesus Christ and the meds He created?

[Acts5:41]

I wasn't medicated for 32 years.

Actually, I "escaped" by running off with an abusive alcoholic! You thought he FIRST 18 were bad....

Frying pan - meet fire! y

And I was living in sin for 11 years; so my relationship with Him went in the trash.

Oh, it was hell, really. The man cheated. He lied. He manipulated. He verbally and physically abused me. Overall, I was about equal to something you'd scrape out of the litter box.

Then, he got hit by a truck! Should have died, but didn't. I was overwhelmed one day by the consequences of my sin and repented, and I realized, God still loved me! He was there for me when everyone turned against me. When his family slandered me because I wouldn't put him in a nursing home, and I fought to give Ron the best care I could - God was with me, "Backing every play".

THAT's when I got tight with Him again. When my "husband" woke up and realized what had happened, he had a dramatic turnaround and 1. Started treating me better. and 2. Married me legally (God made it clear, over the years, this was what He wanted).

I ended up, crazy, brain damaged, with the sole care of a very broken man. But God carried us through that, too! My illness progressed. I started getting even more paranoid, and hostile. Seeing things. Feeling things on my skin, day and night, that didn't exist. Horrible mood swings, up - spend all my pay in one day, on useless junk. Down - living in bed, not even bathing. And both moods at the same time.

Years later, I had yet another suicidal depression, sought help, and THEN learned I had bipolar disorder. Got medicated. Had a final tweak on the medication this year... and doing very well.

My husband is still very disabled, verbally abusive on occasion, and an alcoholic, but God give me the grace to deal.

He is ALWAYS in my corner, always has been, always will be, and EVERYTHING He allows in my life is working for a greater purpose. Romans 8:28

God built me to be the exact woman I am now. Who else would do what I do? Only a special order! 2 Corinthians 12:9 - HIS strength, made perfect in my "weakness".

If I hadn't had such a hellish life I wouldn't have grown this faith.

[TimothyK]

For the people claiming that only the "weak" have problems with suicide, I would ask, "Have you been suicidal?"

...

Please do not throw rocks at, or condemn, people who battle suicide.

Heather, dear one, you make the mistake of assuming here. You said yourself that you didn't read all the posts.

No one here has said that those who struggle with suicidal thoughts or tendencies are weak people. No one has belittled or condemned anybody.

[Acts5:41]

Some of what I did read made me a little twitchy.

This one, in particular, by Sunshine:

I believe that the tendency to go toward suicidal thoughts is a weakness in many people, including Christians. It was before salvation and that weakness doesnt leave because they get saved.

it's not a weakness. It's an illness - like epilepsy. y You cannot treat a medical condition as a solitary, spiritual, issue. It's like those "faith healers" trying to cast demons out of a kid with autism.

Depression infects ALL parts of a life, including the spiritual.

My own parents denied me any assistance for years, leaving me to battle horrific demons on my own, because "It was a character issue". They will answer for that.

[TimothyK]

Some of what I did read made me a little twitchy.

This one, in particular, by Sunshine:

it's not a weakness. It's an illness - like epilepsy. y You cannot treat a medical condition as a solitary, spiritual, issue. It's like those "faith healers" trying to cast demons out of a kid with autism.

Depression infects ALL parts of a life, including the spiritual.

My own parents denied me any assistance for years, leaving me to battle horrific demons on my own, because "It was a character issue". They will answer for that.

It can be an illness dear one. It can also be a weakness, a temptation.

I know the particulars regarding your ordeal sister, I know some folks have mental problems that exasperate suicidal thoughts and tendencies.

But I don't know everyone and we do not know if such circumstances exist as with yourself in others who would commit suicide. That isn't always the case or the reason in particular.

There is a sliding scale of reasonable sanity we gauge the actions of others on, and chiefly, of those who have the competence to come to or else reject a saving faith in Jesus Christ.

Is it a temptation? A mental break down? Does the person have a reasonable comprehension of what it is they are doing? Do they understand the difference between right and wrong? Did they have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

The former is for the discernment of those still alive. The later is all that will matter for the one who has taken their life. Murder simply is not a fruit of the Holy Spirit. This by itself does not conclude the salvation status of a person.

But it is a genuine point of concern. It can be a faith issue.

It's not wrong to discern or judge between these things. It's to the benefit of those who are still alive. It can mean the difference between life and death.

[Acts5:41]

Here's a fact. I just researched my form of depression. 41% mortality rate. That's worse than cancer. People with severe, regular, depression have a 20% mortality rate. I would call it a serious medical problem.

I'm not biting, just stating.

The way I see it, the Devil can use an illness to attack us. My husband has neuropathy. It is horrible. The devil gets a 2-for-one special because I suffer, too, watching him hurt.

The devil can use other illnesses to attack us, like depression. I see him do that with me. I am constantly battling.

I am hyper-aware of ANYONE referring to depression as a "flaw" and not an "illness". So many bad experiences .

I would love to think I don't have any scars, but I do.

Now, a good example, God just put it in my head. My husband will sit around a lot of times and have "poor me pity parties". Is he "depressed"? Maybe.

Is he "sick"? ABSOLUTELY NOT. He's choosing to have a pity party, and it drives me nuts. I am torn between my desire to slap him with all the good things God has done for us, and the desire to console him.

Regardless of anything else: I think the "overcomers" let Jesus do the heavy lifting, literally flinging all their burdens on His back, and those who try to carry their burdens themselves. I never would have made it this far without Him, with or without medication.

[jonshaff]

I never would have made it this far without Him

My escape...and many, many other's