Feeding the homeless/ church ministries

[iSong6:3]

Excellent, OWL.

Jesus said man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Do we believe Him?

[OnceWasLost]

Excellent, OWL.

Jesus said man does not live on bread alone but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.

Do we believe Him?

Apparently it depends on who you ask.

[Mommytoa3rdgradeboy]

But how do we know the homeless person is not saved already? I know a lot of homeless people that are saved, in fact I know of a guy who was healed when a homeless guy prayed over him. His name is Todd White and he has a street ministry. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlVK27l-iVY

With the way the economy is these days ANYONE can become homeless, it is only by the grace of God that I have a place to lay my head so I personally would have no qualms about helping these people.

I believe God calls different people to serve him in different ways, perhaps this is not your calling? Some He calls to hand out tracts, some he calls to give clothing and food and some may not feel lead to help the homeless at all and instead serve in doing something totally different.

This is EXACTLY right. Many, many people are homeless, and many of those people have been saved for years. Anyone can become homeless. It just takes one catestrophogical (sp?) illness or accident, or a combination of a job loss and divorce to become homeless. Look at how many children are homeless.

Luke 10:30-37 ESV / 32 helpful votes
Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. ...

In this example, a Samaritan had compassion, took care of his physical needs 1st...I agree that some type of ministry should be given along with food, but I certainly don't think it is wrong not to. When missionaries travel to areas of the world where there are many starving people, what do they do 1st? Most always, they provide a meal of food, THEN once their bellies are full, they tell the Gospel. I don't know about everyone else, but when I am hungry, I really don't care too much about someone trying to tell me something, and I definitely pay closer attention listening when I am not hungry.

Below are a couple of verses that comes to mind:
"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

Just my opinion, folks...

[Mommytoa3rdgradeboy]

My personal example of giving to a homeless person. For several days, I saw this homeless man sitting by an abandoned Big Bear grocery store. He didn't bother anyone and I don't know how he got there...BUT, I had an extra Bible in my vehicle and that day I stopped at McDonalds (I was in a hurry, of course, trying to get to work.) and got him a large breakfast meal. I handed him a Bible and the food, and I said something to the effect of, I just wanted to let you know that Jesus loves and I hope you enjoy your food. Here is a Bible to read when you get a moment. I have no idea what he did what that Bible. I had it marked to John, I believe. I certainly hoped he read it.

[IbelieveinJesus]

@owl

There may well be ministries that have lost there way on the Evangelism front, I personally don't know enough about the ministry mentioned in the op to judge it, but I think that sometimes the "why are we doing this.." question gets lost on ministries after a time, and needs to be reevaluated.

I would point out though, that there is a difference between marketing and message. Just because a ministry isn't promoting the Gospel in the way you want or expect, doesn't mean they aren't promoting the Gospel.

-Ted

[Longing2cJesus]

Why is this even a dilemma for some? Look at the early church and how they made the Gospel primary to every encounter we know of. If we are giving food, hygiene kits, blankets etc. what benefit is that if we do not give the context as to why? How will they know we are "sharing the love of Jesus" (that Christ) if He is not mentioned as the motivation behind the action? Really, the idea of doing one without the other is like making coffee without water.

Here is the scenario in the model of the Book of Acts church.

The prostitute/homeless/drug addict or whatever is approached by the random church member. Whatever is being handed out is given to said person, and upon receiving the handed out thing a look into their eye is followed by a simple explanation as to why you are there. Something like, I am here because Jesus has set me free and prior to Him doing so I would not have been here. I care enough to do so because He showed me unconditional love, the same love He has for you. Do you know who He is, has anyone ever taken the time to talk to you about Him?



After something like that you will be viewed, whether or not they believe what you say, as a person not doing some civic good work and then going home to your comfy suburban life, but someone who has a message to back the action. The idea that it is an either/or proposition shows how the church as a whole has lost it's way in these times, and really shows how they have missed the message one of the easiest to find passages on the matter in all of Scripture.

Our Master said:



Is this not the model we saw Peter follow in Acts three and all throughout the examples in the early church?

Frankly, I lay this at the feet of a pastor sending out his flock to do this and not insisting the message of The Gospel is the emphasis. The pulpits have become gutless because those who occupy them are similarly gutless and never explain the urgency of the moment.

This makes me so angry because we are missing the mark in "evangelism" when we don't evangelize.

[OnceWasLost]

This is EXACTLY right. Many, many people are homeless, and many of those people have been saved for years. Anyone can become homeless. It just takes one catestrophogical (sp?) illness or accident, or a combination of a job loss and divorce to become homeless. Look at how many children are homeless.

Luke 10:30-37 ESV / 32 helpful votes
Jesus replied, “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who stripped him and beat him and departed, leaving him half dead. Now by chance a priest was going down that road, and when he saw him he passed by on the other side. So likewise a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he journeyed, came to where he was, and when he saw him, he had compassion. He went to him and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he set him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. ...

In this example, a Samaritan had compassion, took care of his physical needs 1st...I agree that some type of ministry should be given along with food, but I certainly don't think it is wrong not to. When missionaries travel to areas of the world where there are many starving people, what do they do 1st? Most always, they provide a meal of food, THEN once their bellies are full, they tell the Gospel. I don't know about everyone else, but when I am hungry, I really don't care too much about someone trying to tell me something, and I definitely pay closer attention listening when I am not hungry.

Below are a couple of verses that comes to mind:
"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

Just my opinion, folks...

Not to be argumentative here, but this is apples and oranges. Nobody would say it's an either/or in fact if the person on the street is born again. and their life is a mess, who better than a person there as an Ambassador of Jesus Christ to come along side and also pray with that person, with whom they have a common eternal hope? What a missed opportunity to have compassion on a brother/sister if we never know they are one.

As an Ambassador (Paul's description in 2 Corinthians 5:20) are we to promote His Kingdom and how someone can secure their place there? Can anyone imagine an ambassador for the United States not speaking about and promoting their home country?

Applying the relationship first model imagine how this would have looked.

Notice in Acts 8 and Acts 16 with the jailer and the eunuch that no relationship with the people in need was applied, only a simple presentation of Gospel truth was needed.

[OnceWasLost]

@owl

There may well be ministries that have lost there way on the Evangelism front, I personally don't know enough about the ministry mentioned in the op to judge it, but I think that sometimes the "why are we doing this.." question gets lost on ministries after a time, and needs to be reevaluated.

I would point out though, that there is a difference between marketing and message. Just because a ministry isn't promoting the Gospel in the way you want or expect, doesn't mean they aren't promoting the Gospel.

-Ted

Case by case, Ted, but if people are surprised by the question as to why they don't have a message as part of their ministry that speaks volumes. It is a matter of what is taught over the pulpit. Can a person know what is required to be saved on any occasion they enter into the sanctuary of any church in question? If the answer is no, they should close the doors, or call it a community center, or something other than a church.

They have become the "salt" that is to be trodden under foot as Jesus speaks of in Matthew 5:13-16. That passage serves as a primer, as given by Jesus, on how the message, though hard for some to hear, must be the focus of any action.

[Any Minute]

OWL.

I also see a danger in falling into a works based salvation or good works to maintain salvation or relationship. The preaching of the Cross, the Gospel, is the only way. I'm not saying feeding, clothing, and shelter can't be used as a method. Without any mention of Jesus and the salvation He offers, meaningless and pointless. Many a church has gone off the deep end with a social gospel (which is no gospel at all) and even ties in to many other deceptions such as the church growth movement. I get what some mean with the "love them to Christ". The problem is, how long do you (or more important, they) have? What good has been done if someone dies with a full belly, clothes, and a roof over their head but die while they were being loved to Christ? Sharing the Gospel is loving them.

Many of us are led to give and do many different things in trying to reach the lost. Some do come to Christ as a result of the efforts and some just partake of the blessings, learn entitlement, and never find the narrow gate. Their are many good missionaries feeding people the Word of God, and their are many who are good at taking care of the fleshly needs of people, some do both. Look around Africa and South America, places that are heavily evangelized and you'll see a broad mix, many though have gotten good at waiting for the next church group to come along.The lost world does a better job of taking care of themselve's than the church ever will. We have the only thing that matters, the only way. Jesus. I've seen many church members running themselve's ragged getting involved in everything and every event that their church promotes (I've done it) and many times the lost stay lost. I worry about the unsaved who sit in church, who you would think understood the way of salvation, say they are saved by grace through faith, yet are being taught a form of works.

[Acts5:41]

Here is the scenario in the model of the Book of Acts church.

The prostitute/homeless/drug addict or whatever is approached by the random church member. Whatever is being handed out is given to said person, and upon receiving the handed out thing a look into their eye is followed by a simple explanation as to why you are there. Something like, I am here because Jesus has set me free and prior to Him doing so I would not have been here. I care enough to do so because He showed me unconditional love, the same love He has for you. Do you know who He is, has anyone ever taken the time to talk to you about Him?

After something like that you will be viewed, whether or not they believe what you say, as a person not doing some civic good work and then going home to your comfy suburban life, but someone who has a message to back the action. The idea that it is an either/or proposition shows how the church as a whole has lost it's way in these times, and really shows how they have missed the message one of the easiest to find passages on the matter in all of Scripture

Frankly, I lay this at the feet of a pastor sending out his flock to do this and not insisting the message of The Gospel is the emphasis. The pulpits have become gutless because those who occupy them are similarly gutless and never explain the urgency of the moment.

This makes me so angry because we are missing the mark in "evangelism" when we don't evangelize.

I couldn't agree more.

Ted, God didn't put me here to "promote" the Gospel. He put me here to share it.

Like I said, I don't judge other faith walks; but I know 10000% God wants me sharing Him and praying for everyone, daily.

I see a huge danger in "friendship evangelism". "I have to build a relationship before they will hear me".

I hate to toot my horn, but look what I do. I stand there like a homeless addict, on the corner, with a huge sign that says "FREE BIBLES". Let me tell you, the reactions I get from some of them sure build humility!

I don't build a relationship with "my" recipients, I get the Word into their hands. They are drawn to me, by God, to get the Bible. I ask them how many they want, tell them I will be praying for them, and they drive off. I hand it over, pray for them daily, and that's it.

They go on, having a experienced my faith an a radical manner.

I also have "relationships" with my drivers but generally the FIRST thing I do when I get in the vehicle is give them a Bible, or scripture booklet. The accept it (or, rarely, not), and then we get on with building a relationship.

I refuse to believe the "They won't accept it if we don't have a relationship" argument. Virtually everyone I meet does just that - accepts the evangelism without a relationship.

In fact, if they are saved, it's the starting point for a good conversation. Sometimes, on request, I give them extra material so they can do their own distribution.

I seldom meet my recipients twice. I only have one chance, one opportunity, in this "life" to reach them. So I'm going to do it.

[IbelieveinJesus]

Notice in Acts 8 and Acts 16 with the jailer and the eunuch that no relationship with the people in need was applied, only a simple presentation of Gospel truth was needed.

For some, a simple verbal presentation is needed

For some, a tract might be best

For some, hearing the PR surrounding Tebow and John 3:16 might get them to pick up the Bible.

For some, reading a Bible handed to them by Acts would be enough.

For some, a movie about Christ might move them.

For some, the prolonged loving encouragement of family member is needed.

For some, attending a Church service with a friend might open their Heart to the Gospel.

For some, losing everything, and crying out to the Lord in desperation is what is needed.

For some, a stranger, truly caring about them, not as a pretense for some selfish motive, the first time in their life, might make them curious about what makes this person so different.

For some, a realization about their own faith, might make them hungry for another.

People are all different, have different experiences, and are persuaded in different ways. If that wasn't the case corporations wouldn't spend billions on marketing departments.

and relationships can be very important, as I beleive Paul recognized when he said:

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

I am certainly not knocking the simple presentation of the Gospel, but I would suggest that folks who do something else, are not necessarily in error.

I think when gauging a mission, a Church should ask, "what's the mission," "is our practice consistent with that," and "are do the actual results show our practice is effective."

-Ted

Ted, God didn't put me here to "promote" the Gospel. He put me here to share it

I don't see a huge distinction here.. but perhaps we just understand the words differently... If I give money or time to buy Bibles or support a ministy, I would say I am promoting it... I suppose I would also agree I am sharing the Gospel.. :noidea

[OnceWasLost]

Paul's admonition in the 1 Corinthians passage makes my point IMO. He spoke to people, based on their understanding. Look at his first recorded action in Acts 9 after conversion.

Acts 9:19-22

So when he had received food, he was strengthened. Then Saul spent some days with the disciples at Damascus. Immediately he preached the Christ in the synagogues, that He is the Son of God. Then all who heard were amazed, and said, “Is this not he who destroyed those who called on this name in Jerusalem, and has come here for that purpose, so that he might bring them bound to the chief priests?” But Saul increased all the more in strength, and confounded the Jews who dwelt in Damascus, proving that this Jesus is the Christ.

Paul understood things as a Jew and was able to speak in terms they understood.

Acts 17:16-31

Now while Paul waited for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him when he saw that the city was given over to idols. Therefore he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and with the Gentile worshipers, and in the marketplace daily with those who happened to be there. Then certain Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encountered him. And some said, “What does this babbler want to say?”

Others said, “He seems to be a proclaimer of foreign gods,” because he preached to them Jesus and the resurrection.

And they took him and brought him to the Areopagus, saying, “May we know what this new doctrine is of which you speak? For you are bringing some strange things to our ears. Therefore we want to know what these things mean.” For all the Athenians and the foreigners who were there spent their time in nothing else but either to tell or to hear some new thing.

Then Paul stood in the midst of the Areopagus and said, “Men of Athens, I perceive that in all things you are very religious; for as I was passing through and considering the objects of your worship, I even found an altar with this inscription:

TO THE UNKNOWN GOD.

Therefore, the One whom you worship without knowing, Him I proclaim to you: “God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. Nor is He worshiped with men’s hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.”

He also knew how to speak to pagans and did so while waiting for other to arrive. You could say as he was killing time he saw an opportunity, so the man who penned the 1 Corinthians passage you sited demonstrated it's understanding in his actions. No mention in either Acts passages about "relationships" but rather encounters designed by God to be a witness.

[Mommytoa3rdgradeboy]

I just that know that I personally do not like when people, with whom I have no connection, try to stop me on the street (or in the middle of the mall, wherever and whatever the scenario) to try to 'sell' me something, even it's it's free. That being said, when I hand out tracts, I look for people who are sitting around, apparently waiting for someone/something, and just say, "Let me give you this to read while you wait."

There was the nicest, sweetest man who stood by the bus station which is right across the street and handed out tracts very frequently. He always (quietly) offered me a tract..sometimes I would take one (only because I wanted him to feel good) but most times, I simply said, "No, thanks." Of course, I always felt guilty, and I had to explain that I was already saved. I just declined the tract because I wanted someone else (preferably unsaved) to get it.

I am much more likely to be receiptive w/ someone if they engage me in sort of conversation, if *I* go the place. Ex. If I were homeless and hungry and I went to a shelter where I was given food, I would be so grateful that *someone* took the time to give me food. Because of their kindness, I would be inclined to listen to anything they had to say. Now, had that person tried to give me something to read or talk to me about something that I knew little to nothing about, would I be so receiptive? I know I wouldn't.

Maybe I am missing the point of this, IDK, and I am sorry if I am...

[Acts5:41]

OH, I'd agree with you Ted - helping someone share the Gospel is vital.

I wouldn't get very far without sponsors! I sponsor a few little programs myself. A couple dollars in the right ministry can have amazing fruit.

I'm a little rabid, and I admit it, because I see a lot of people saying "Well, I'm a nice person everyday. That will draw people to Jesus" or people like Shane Clairborne, who drives me NUTS (I actually threw his book away) who say "Well, if I do good works, and they know I am a Christian, they will be saved."

HOW???

He won $10,000 in a lawsuit, and gave it away, without once mentioning God, Jesus, or the Bible. You know how many tracts you could print? 200,000 tracts. You know how many New Testaments? 20K. But he and his friends just basically threw the money all over the road and let people pick it up. He didn't give it to street people. He just dumped $1 bills on people.

It's fun. It's nice. But it is worthless.

I got so angry, reading Shane's book, because it was all about "I did this and I did that".

I do nothing outside of God. Nothing. I'd be honored if He let me clean toilets in His name.

And I agree - my approach may not be for everyone. To paraphrase a song I like, I was built for this.

Others are built for other ministries. I have had some wonderful Christians help me fix up my home, for free, because "That is what God called us to do". Since I don't have to get another job to pay for the repairs, I can hand out more Bibles.

I believe God puts a ministry into each of us, what He wants us to do. It may be childcare for your widowed sister, teaching the kids Bible stories and watching Veggie Tales. It may be fixing up houses for needy Christians. It may be handing out Bibles - but whatever God calls you to; do!

Our time is so short, and people are perishing. I have a tremendous sense of urgency.

[OnceWasLost]

I am much more likely to be receiptive w/ someone if they engage me in sort of conversation, if *I* go the place. Ex. If I were homeless and hungry and I went to a shelter where I was given food, I would be so grateful that *someone* took the time to give me food. Because of their kindness, I would be inclined to listen to anything they had to say. Now, had that person tried to give me something to read or talk to me about something that I knew little to nothing about, would I be so receiptive? I know I wouldn't.

Maybe I am missing the point of this, IDK, and I am sorry if I am...

I believe in the kindness approach to outreach, just as the man you mentioned and your reaction to him is an evidence of his effectiveness. A sandwich and a warm greeting, a gentle smile and a reasoned presentation of The Gospel are essentials. An all of the above approach is exactly my point. The Bible is filled with this type of model, and all the elements work together.

We do not disagree, and I think the bullhorn obnoxious person with no love is missing elements as well, though the message may be completely accurate.

[Mommytoa3rdgradeboy]

I believe in the kindness approach to outreach, just as the man you mentioned and your reaction to him is an evidence of his effectiveness. A sandwich and a warm greeting, a gentle smile and a reasoned presentation of The Gospel are essentials. An all of the above approach is exactly my point. The Bible is filled with this type of model, and all the elements work together.

We do not disagree, and I think the bullhorn obnoxious person with no love is missing elements as well, though the message may be completely accurate.

The next day, I DID take him not one, but two sandwiches, chips & drink from home.

[penbrat]

I just that know that I personally do not like when people, with whom I have no connection, try to stop me on the street (or in the middle of the mall, wherever and whatever the scenario) to try to 'sell' me something, even it's it's free. That being said, when I hand out tracts, I look for people who are sitting around, apparently waiting for someone/something, and just say, "Let me give you this to read while you wait."

There was the nicest, sweetest man who stood by the bus station which is right across the street and handed out tracts very frequently. He always (quietly) offered me a tract..sometimes I would take one (only because I wanted him to feel good) but most times, I simply said, "No, thanks." Of course, I always felt guilty, and I had to explain that I was already saved. I just declined the tract because I wanted someone else (preferably unsaved) to get it.

I am much more likely to be receiptive w/ someone if they engage me in sort of conversation, if *I* go the place. Ex. If I were homeless and hungry and I went to a shelter where I was given food, I would be so grateful that *someone* took the time to give me food. Because of their kindness, I would be inclined to listen to anything they had to say. Now, had that person tried to give me something to read or talk to me about something that I knew little to nothing about, would I be so receiptive? I know I wouldn't.

Maybe I am missing the point of this, IDK, and I am sorry if I am...

I completley agree

[OnceWasLost]

The next day, I DID take him not one, but two sandwiches, chips & drink from home.

I had a person ask me for $$$ when going into a supermarket back some time ago. I told her I do not give $$$ but if she was hungry I would get her a sandwich. I went to a local deli and returned with a sandwich and she was shocked. She told me when I left she though I was gone for good. I explained why I would do what I did and that Jesus loved me and called me to love her in like manner. The sandwich was to be used as a platform from which I could minister to her real need, in much greater detail.

I have been able to repeat similar situations over the years.

[Acts5:41]

Exactly.

My Dad has worked with homeless drug addicts for many years, and says NEVER give them money. It just goes to the habit.

A lot of times, with my drivers, and on Halloween, I put the "Jesus" in a bag with some candy.

[iSong6:3]

Below are a couple of verses that comes to mind:
"On the contrary: If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.'" Romans 12:20

The point here was to do good to your enemies to bring them to repentance re: relationship with you, not to support the social gospel.

"For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in." Matthew 25:35

Just my opinion, folks...

This is speaking of the Trib and how God will judge people in the Sheep and Goats Judgment - whether or not they supported Israel and/or believers.

There is no Biblical justification for what is known as the social gospel.