not a prophet's slippery slope

[Jlutz]

When you said "Olive bar" I pictured a candy bar made of olives

i just threw up a little bit in my mouth

[Mom2ten]

I love green olives stuffed with garlic

[Verisimilitude]

~ So, who 'was' The Wine, inside the cup of Babylon,
in The Lord's hands; that the nations drank and were deranged by? - Jer.51:7

I suggest that since since Jeremiah 51:4 is speaking about the land of the chaldeans, that the term Babylon in Jeremiah 51:7 refers literally to Babylon that ruled the civilized world at one time.

Further, in Jeremiah 51:5, the Lord is renewing His promise to Israel that He will always be with her:

For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the Lord of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.

As for the vine, let me note what the Savior said:
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches:

Jesus is the heavenly vine and Israel is not abandoned. We are to be in the world, not of the world, therefore my opinion is that the vine of the earth are ALL those who have rejected the Savior, whether Jew or gentile. The grapes being crushed in the winepress of His wrath is not limited to any one nation, it is limited to all the unbelievers all over the world. All who took the mark and worshipped the image of the beast as well as all who never did, but still never made a decision to accept Jesus.

You have to understand, Israel is the apple of God's eye (Zechariah 2:8). The wrath that falls on the entire world is the time of Jacobs trouble, (Jeremiah 30:7), but Jacob shall be saved out of it. The Lord has sworn great things for Israel. In spite of their unbelief, He will keep His promises for the sake of His Holy Name! Everything He does, every promise He keeps is for the sake of His unblemished Name. For Him to not keep His promise to make them a great nation would mean that either He is not all powerful or that He is a liar. Neither of these things are possible, therefore He must keep His promises.

1 Samuel 12:22 For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.

Psalm 106:7-8 Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked him at the sea, even at the Red sea. Nevertheless he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known.

Ezekiel 20:44 And ye shall know that I am the LORD when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

He means what He says, and He will establish Israel forever according to the scriptures. Jesus will sit there on the throne of David and rule the world from there. It is the only place where the Lord has established His temple. No other place is mentioned anywhere in the Bible for His permanent Temple. Even now, He is blessing Israel greatly with large oil and natural gas deposits. Things never before seen there. He has promised to enlarge her borders and He protects her.

Babylon is synonymous with false religion. False religion leads one away from the True and Living God and His Only Begotten Son. It is all the unbelieving world that will be punished by the Lord during the tribulation, all who choose to follow Babylone and not Jesus. He is not going to zero in on Israel alone. In fact, the scriptures make it clear that there are going to be 144,000 Israeli's preaching Jesus all around the world! You have a very narrow focus on Israeli unbelievers. There are unbelievers all over the world, many of whom hate the apple of God's eye such as radical Islam. They continually curse Israel, and the Lord is about to bring down the final curse upon the unbelieving world, and set Israel in the place He always meant for her to have, ever since He first promised to make of Abraham a great nation.

[not a prophet]

I suggest that since since Jeremiah 51:4 is speaking about the land of the chaldeans, that the term Babylon in Jeremiah 51:7 refers literally to Babylon that ruled the civilized world at one time.

Further, in Jeremiah 51:5, the Lord is renewing His promise to Israel that He will always be with her:

For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the Lord of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel.

As for the vine, let me note what the Savior said:
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches:

Jesus is the heavenly vine and Israel is not abandoned. We are to be in the world, not of the world, therefore my opinion is that the vine of the earth are ALL those who have rejected the Savior, whether Jew or gentile. The grapes being crushed in the winepress of His wrath is not limited to any one nation, it is limited to all the unbelievers all over the world. All who took the mark and worshipped the image of the beast as well as all who never did, but still never made a decision to accept Jesus.

You have to understand, Israel is the apple of God's eye (Zechariah 2:8). The wrath that falls on the entire world is the time of Jacobs trouble, (Jeremiah 30:7), but Jacob shall be saved out of it. The Lord has sworn great things for Israel. In spite of their unbelief, He will keep His promises for the sake of His Holy Name! Everything He does, every promise He keeps is for the sake of His unblemished Name. For Him to not keep His promise to make them a great nation would mean that either He is not all powerful or that He is a liar. Neither of these things are possible, therefore He must keep His promises.

1 Samuel 12:22 For the Lord will not forsake his people for his great name's sake: because it hath pleased the Lord to make you his people.

Psalm 106:7-8 Our fathers understood not thy wonders in Egypt; they remembered not the multitude of thy mercies; but provoked him at the sea, even at the Red sea. Nevertheless he saved them for his name's sake, that he might make his mighty power to be known.

Ezekiel 20:44 And ye shall know that I am the LORD when I have wrought with you for my name's sake, not according to your wicked ways, nor according to your corrupt doings, O ye house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.

He means what He says, and He will establish Israel forever according to the scriptures. Jesus will sit there on the throne of David and rule the world from there. It is the only place where the Lord has established His temple. No other place is mentioned anywhere in the Bible for His permanent Temple. Even now, He is blessing Israel greatly with large oil and natural gas deposits. Things never before seen there. He has promised to enlarge her borders and He protects her.

Babylon is synonymous with false religion. False religion leads one away from the True and Living God and His Only Begotten Son. It is all the unbelieving world that will be punished by the Lord during the tribulation, all who choose to follow Babylone and not Jesus. He is not going to zero in on Israel alone. In fact, the scriptures make it clear that there are going to be 144,000 Israeli's preaching Jesus all around the world! You have a very narrow focus on Israeli unbelievers. There are unbelievers all over the world, many of whom hate the apple of God's eye such as radical Islam. They continually curse Israel, and the Lord is about to bring down the final curse upon the unbelieving world, and set Israel in the place He always meant for her to have, ever since He first promised to make of Abraham a great nation.

~ Was Israel's captivity not IN Babylon ?

[Tall Timbers]

I like olives. Love them, actually.

I like greek olives. When I have a salad at the Olive Garden, I always wish they'd use greek olives instead of those cheap ones...

[Florian9]

When you said "Olive bar" I pictured a candy bar made of olives

LOL! Sorry...I meant one of these....
http://howardowens-rochester.buzznet...-1/?id=3547845
Sorry I don't know how to upload photos

[Hootmon]

~ So, who 'was' The Wine, inside the cup of Babylon,
in The Lord's hands; that the nations drank and were deranged by? - Jer.51:7

The 'wine' of Babylon is her 'fornication' (Rev 17) meaning 'false religion'. People become 'drunk' on it and forget God, but God doesnt forget those who are His. He calls them out of Babylon before her destruction

Thus says the LORD: "Behold, I am going to arouse against Babylon And against the inhabitants of Leb-kamai The spirit of a destroyer. "I will dispatch foreigners to Babylon that they may winnow her And may devastate her land; For on every side they will be opposed to her In the day of her calamity. "Let not him who bends his bow bend it, Nor let him rise up in his scale-armor; So do not spare her young men; Devote all her army to destruction. "They will fall down slain in the land of the Chaldeans, And pierced through in their streets."

For neither Israel nor Judah has been forsaken By his God, the LORD of hosts, Although their land is full of guilt Before the Holy One of Israel. Flee from the midst of Babylon, And each of you save his life! Do not be destroyed in her punishment, For this is the LORD'S time of vengeance; He is going to render recompense to her.

Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of the LORD, Intoxicating all the earth. The nations have drunk of her wine; Therefore the nations are going mad. Suddenly Babylon has fallen and been broken; Wail over her! Bring balm for her pain; Perhaps she may be healed. We applied healing to Babylon, but she was not healed; Forsake her and let us each go to his own country, For her judgment has reached to heaven And towers up to the very skies. The LORD has brought about our vindication; Come and let us recount in Zion The work of the LORD our God!
(Jer 51:1-10)

[mary rae]

~ Was Israel's captivity not IN Babylon ?

Yes. Could we get to the point of your question in post #44 .
Why title this thread Messianic Myths? Do you not believe the plain sense of Scripture? I'm sincerely puzzled. I can make sense of what our mods & other members bring to you as far as good solid Biblical "dividing the Word" rightly, in response to your cryptic(to me) posts, but I'm not sure where you are going with this.

[Shonsu]

Yes. Could we get to the point of your question in post #44 .
Why title this thread Messianic Myths? Do you not believe the plain sense of Scripture? I'm sincerely puzzled. I can make sense of what our mods & other members bring to you as far as good solid Biblical "dividing the Word" rightly, in response to your cryptic(to me) posts, but I'm not sure where you are going with this.

Agreed. It seems like NAP is mixing Olive Trees and Grape Vines.

[not a prophet]

~ Another Messinanic Myth is that God commands people to
Pray For The Peace 0f Jerusalem in Psalm 122.

When this is a song of David.

And not a command from God.

[Hootmon]

I like greek olives. When I have a salad at the Olive Garden, I always wish they'd use greek olives instead of those cheap ones...

I actually visited Kalamata about 25 years ago. Beautiful place, and the food (including the olives) was amazing.

[icebear]

~ Another Messinanic Myth is that God commands people to
Pray For The Peace 0f Jerusalem in Psalm 122.

When this is a song of David.

And not a command from God.

[Shonsu]

~ Another Messinanic Myth is that God commands people to
Pray For The Peace 0f Jerusalem in Psalm 122.

When this is a song of David.

And not a command from God.

So I guess the letters from the Apostle Paul were just letters from Paul.

[icebear]

what is your personal opinion of Israel, NaP?

[Verisimilitude]

~ Another Messinanic Myth is that God commands people to
Pray For The Peace 0f Jerusalem in Psalm 122.

When this is a song of David.

And not a command from God.

Acts 2:30 calls David a prophet. On that basis, I am willing to take David's word that we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. When a prophet speaks, it behooves one to listen and act. Also, this wouldn't qualify as a Messianic myth. This Psalm mentions peace for Jerusalem and doesn't refer to any characteristic of the Messiah or anything He would say or do.

As for your question about the Jews and Babylon, the answer is yes. Babylon did capture the Jews and moved many of them there. What is your point?

I have questions for you. Do you believe that the Israeli's are entitled to live in Israel or that they are interlopers there?

Do you believe Israeli's are still God's chosen people, or do you believe that He has cast them aside in favor of someone, anyone else?

Do you support the children of Jacob's right to dwell in the Holy Land in peace, or do you believe they should vacate it and the land should be given to the palestinians or some other group?

Do you believe that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during a period of time lasting 1000 years, commonly referred to as the Millenial Kingdom?

[Alex]

Sounds as if someone has a olive pit stuck somewhere.

[Shonsu]

Acts 2:30 calls David a prophet. On that basis, I am willing to take David's word that we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

As for your question about the Jews and Babylon, the answer is yes. Babylon did capture the Jews and moved many of them there. What is your point?

I have questions for you. Do you believe that the Israeli's are entitled to live in Israel or that they are interlopers there?

Do you believe Israeli's are still God's chosen people, or do you believe that He has cast them aside in favor of someone, anyone else?

Do you support the children of Jacob's right to dwell in the Holy Land in peace, or do you believe they should vacate it and the land should be given to the palestinians or some other group?

Do you believe that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during a period of time lasting 1000 years?

Good questions. Going back and reading NAP's posts, I believe I detect some Israel-replacement theology going on here.

[imfree]

Acts 2:30 calls David a prophet. On that basis, I am willing to take David's word that we are to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. When a prophet speaks, it behooves one to listen and act. Also, this wouldn't qualify as a Messianic myth. This Psalm mentions peace for Jerusalem and doesn't refer to any characteristic of the Messiah or anything He would say or do.

As for your question about the Jews and Babylon, the answer is yes. Babylon did capture the Jews and moved many of them there. What is your point?

I have questions for you. Do you believe that the Israeli's are entitled to live in Israel or that they are interlopers there?

Do you believe Israeli's are still God's chosen people, or do you believe that He has cast them aside in favor of someone, anyone else?

Do you support the children of Jacob's right to dwell in the Holy Land in peace, or do you believe they
should vacate it and the land should be given to the palestinians or some other group?

Do you believe that Jesus will rule from Jerusalem during a period of time lasting 1000 years, commonly
referred to as the Millenial Kingdom?

I eagerly await a response to these very direct questions. The further this thread progresses, the more you guys are peeling away at the onion layers.

[icebear]

Good questions. Going back and reading NAP's posts, I believe I detect some Israel-replacement theology going on here.

which is not tolerated here.

[imfree]

Good questions. Going back and reading NAP's posts, I believe I detect some Israel-replacement theology going on here.

Yep...that's exactly what I discerned as well right from nap's first post.