Sin of Sodom?

[Malachi]

Are these the precursors to lewdness and abominations of Sodom for all nations?

Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister is Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters.
Eze 16:47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.
Eze 16:48 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.
Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.
Eze 16:51 Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.
Eze 16:52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.
Eze 16:53 When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then will I bring again the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:
Eze 16:54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.
Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.
Eze 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,
Eze 16:57 Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of thy reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all that are round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about.
Eze 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD.

[acceptedintheBeloved]

I'm not sure I quite understand your question, but if I'm not mistaken, the context is the "Judgment of Jerusalem":

Ezekiel 16:1-2 -

1 Again the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,

2 Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations

[Then it says in verses 45-46, "Your mother was an Hittite, and your father an Amorite. And thine elder sister is Samaria...and thy younger sister... is Sodom..."]

Verse 47 says, "Yet thou hast not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways."



The passage you quoted (above) always reminds me of the following two NT passages, for some reason:

Luke 20:45-21:11 -

45 Then in the audience of all the people he said unto his disciples,

46 Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;

47 Which devour widows' houses, and for a shew make long prayers: the same shall receive greater damnation.

21:1 And he looked up, and saw the rich men casting their gifts into the treasury.

2 And he saw also a certain poor widow casting in thither two mites.

3 And he said, Of a truth I say unto you, that this poor widow hath cast in more than they all:

4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
[The rich men "gave God HIS part" (and thought that made them righteous)... but the poor widow knew that it ALL came from and belonged to Him!]

5 And as some spake of the temple, how it was adorned with goodly stones and gifts, he said,

6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

7 And they asked him, saying, Master, but when shall these things be? and what sign will there be when these things shall come to pass?

8 And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.

9 But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified: for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by.

10 Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom:

11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.


[and]


Matthew 23:1-39 -

Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,

2 Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:

3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

5 But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,

6 And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,

7 And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.

8 But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren.

9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

10 Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ.

11 But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.

12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

16 Woe unto you, ye blind guides, which say, Whosoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whosoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor!

17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?

18 And, Whosoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whosoever sweareth by the gift that is upon it, he is guilty.

19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

20 Whoso therefore shall swear by the altar, sweareth by it, and by all things thereon.

21 And whoso shall swear by the temple, sweareth by it, and by him that dwelleth therein.

22 And he that shall swear by heaven, sweareth by the throne of God, and by him that sitteth thereon.

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

25 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.

26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

28 Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,

30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.

31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.

32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.

33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.


And then is followed by Matthew 24:1-8, etc (describing their tribulation period, the 70th Week of Daniel).

Thankfully, Ezekiel 16:60, 62 say, "Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant... And I will establish my covenant with thee; and thou shalt know that I am the Lord."

[Malachi]

I'm not sure I quite understand your question, but if I'm not mistaken, the context is the "Judgment of Jerusalem":

Looking at Eze 16:49&50 with Sodom in mind:

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Thanks,
Malachi

[Wally]

Proverbs 16:18
Pride goes before destruction, And a haughty spirit before a fall.



Pride is the common precurser to judgement.

How that pride is manisfested can vary greatly.

Sodom and Gomorrah clearly demonstrated their unglody pride in the debased conduct of homosexuality.


Jude 1:7
as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

[Malachi]

I guess "Pride" and the rest, "fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy", leads towards debased lifstyles?

Thanks,
Malachi

[Wally]

Pride is followed by haughtiness - elevating oneself above God - corrupting or replacing His truth with their opinion/desire (which was already corrupted by sin)

Much like the gay agenda today.


"they were haughty, and committed abomination before me"

[tbrian40]

Someone help me here, where is the verse that stated foreigners were abused, harassed as they passed by or through Sodom? That was another reason why God brought judgement upon Sodom and the other 4 cities of wickedness. I can't find this verse...

[Wally]

Genesis 19:1-10 New King James Version (NKJV)

Sodom’s Depravity

19 Now the two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them, and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground. 2 And he said, “Here now, my lords, please turn in to your servant’s house and spend the night, and wash your feet; then you may rise early and go on your way.”

And they said, “No, but we will spend the night in the open square.”

3 But he insisted strongly; so they turned in to him and entered his house. Then he made them a feast, and baked unleavened bread, and they ate.

4 Now before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both old and young, all the people from every quarter, surrounded the house. 5 And they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may know them carnally.”

6 So Lot went out to them through the doorway, shut the door behind him, 7 and said, “Please, my brethren, do not do so wickedly! 8 See now, I have two daughters who have not known a man; please, let me bring them out to you, and you may do to them as you wish; only do nothing to these men, since this is the reason they have come under the shadow of my roof.”

9 And they said, “Stand back!” Then they said, “This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” So they pressed hard against the man Lot, and came near to break down the door. 10 But the men reached out their hands and pulled Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.


Homosexual gang rape. That is how depraved Sodom had sunk.

The real sadness is for Lot who had been so affected, he would sacrifice his own daughters.

Perhaps it was a culture thing, and his guests were angels, but the Dads I know would take on Navy Seals before doing such a thing.

[ArthurM]

Looking at Eze 16:49&50 with Sodom in mind:

Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.
Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good.

Thanks,
Malachi

I guess "Pride" and the rest, "fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy", leads towards debased lifstyles?

Thanks,
Malachi

Those are separate issues. Note 16:50 says "and they were haughty and committed abomination before me...".

[HeIsEnough]

Are these the precursors to lewdness and abominations of Sodom for all nations?

Interesting you say that. If you listen to people today, they think they are heading towards super utopia. With abortion on demand, sexual freedom, marriage disdain, normalizing single parenthood, and a number of other societal problems. Through modern mans thinking how enlightened they are, how they are ultra sophisticated in developing this progressive society, the blindness is nearly complete.

Problem is, these things don't lead "up" in society, like some futuristic Star Trek society where everyone is fed, contributes to society, and there is little poverty or societal problems. No, they lead straight down where Sodom lived, where society breaks down completely into mindless sinners, inventing new ways to sin, and social problems only becoming more and more devastating to society. They'll end up just like Sodom and they don't even know it, maybe even think they can stop it. Fools.

I view Sodom as the perfect analogy for Romans 1. It starts where people are not thankful to God, do not give Him glory, and think He is not worthy to remember. They'll end up in wanton depravity, thinking nothing wrong with it like we see today. This isn't about sexual sin, thats been with us since the beginning, they've abandoned all consideration of God, so they end up in a very bad place.

[Xynthia]

I've always thought that Ezekiel is saying that the chief sin of Sodom is their greed, laziness, and cruelty to their poor. The homosexual rape attempt that is described in Genesis seems to me to be more an act of sadism and desire to humiliate the angelic guests in a particularily degrading way, than a description of homosexuality or sexual hedonism. To me, it seems more akin to the worst, most brutal inmates in a prison committing a prison rape to show their power. It seems to show that these were people whose only response to the godly (i.e. the angels) was a satanic desire to deface and destroy. btw, I am not making this argument because I think the bible isn't against homosexuality. There are plenty of other verses where it makes it clear that it is. I just think this particular episode is somewhat mischaracterized as being about homosexuality, as I see it as being more about rape and a lust to degrade what is beautiful and good.

[clemson]

I think ( using inference) that sodom's name says it all Sodomy is homosexuality. But here is the Scripture which gives s the answer. Conclude...

Scripture ESV

So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. Then Abraham drew near and said, "Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?" And the Lord said, "If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake." Abraham answered and said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking. Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?" And he said, "I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there." Again he spoke to him and said, "Suppose forty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of forty I will not do it." Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there." He answered, "I will not do it, if I find thirty there." He said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it." Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there." He answered, "For the sake of ten I will not destroy it." And the Lord went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place. (Genesis 18:22-33 ESV)

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." But they said, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down. But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door. Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city, bring them out of the place. For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it." So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, "Up! Get out of this place, for the Lord is about to destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting. As morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be swept away in the punishment of the city." But he lingered. So the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city. And as they brought them out, one said, "Escape for your life. Do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley. Escape to the hills, lest you be swept away." And Lot said to them, "Oh, no, my lords. Behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness in saving my life. But I cannot escape to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me and I die. Behold, this city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. Let me escape there—is it not a little one?—and my life will be saved!" He said to him, "Behold, I grant you this favor also, that I will not overthrow the city of which you have spoken. Escape there quickly, for I can do nothing till you arrive there." Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. But Lot's wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the Lord. And he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and he looked and, behold, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace. So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, God remembered Abraham and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow when he overthrew the cities in which Lot had lived. Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters. And the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose. The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father. The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day. The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites to this day. (Genesis 19:1-38 ESV)

[Steve53]

Question: "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?"

Answer: The biblical account of Sodom and Gomorrah is recorded in Genesis chapters 18-19. Genesis chapter 18 records the Lord and two angels coming to speak with Abraham. The Lord informed Abraham that "the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous." Verses 22-33 record Abraham pleading with the Lord to have mercy on Sodom and Gomorrah because Abraham's nephew, Lot, and his family lived in Sodom.

Genesis chapter 19 records the two angels, disguised as human men, visiting Sodom and Gomorrah. Lot met the angels in the city square and urged them to stay at his house. The angels agreed. The Bible then informs us, "Before they had gone to bed, all the men from every part of the city of Sodom — both young and old — surrounded the house. They called to Lot, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.'" The angels then proceed to blind all the men of Sodom and Gomorrah and urge Lot and his family to flee from the cities to escape the wrath that God was about to deliver. Lot and his family flee the city, and then "the LORD rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah — from the LORD out of the heavens. Thus he overthrew those cities and the entire plain, including all those living in the cities..."

In light of the passage, the most common response to the question "What was the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah?" is that it was homosexuality. That is how the term "sodomy" came to be used to refer to anal sex between two men, whether consensual or forced. Clearly, homosexuality was part of why God destroyed the two cities. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah wanted to perform homosexual gang rape on the two angels (who were disguised as men). At the same time, it is not biblical to say that homosexuality was the exclusive reason why God destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah. The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were definitely not exclusive in terms of the sins in which they indulged.

Ezekiel 16:49-50 declares, "Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did detestable things before me..." The Hebrew word translated "detestable" refers to something that is morally disgusting and is the exact same word used in Leviticus 18:22 that refers to homosexuality as an "abomination." Similarly, Jude 7 declares, "...Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion." So, again, while homosexuality was not the only sin in which the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah indulged, it does appear to be the primary reason for the destruction of the cities.

Those who attempt to explain away the biblical condemnations of homosexuality claim that the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah was inhospitality. The men of Sodom and Gomorrah were certainly being inhospitable. There is probably nothing more inhospitable than homosexual gang rape. But to say God completely destroyed two cities and all their inhabitants for being inhospitable clearly misses the point. While Sodom and Gomorrah were guilty of many other horrendous sins, homosexuality was the reason God poured fiery sulfur on the cities, completely destroying them and all of their inhabitants. To this day, the area where Sodom and Gomorrah were located remains a desolate wasteland. Sodom and Gomorrah serve as a powerful example of how God feels about sin in general, and homosexuality specifically. http://www.gotquestions.org/Sodom-and-Gomorrah.html

[saved by Grace]

I think ( using inference) that sodom's name says it all Sodomy is homosexuality. But here is the Scripture which gives s the answer. Conclude...

Scripture ESV

So the men turned from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord. Then Abraham drew near and said, "Will you indeed sweep away the righteous with the wicked? Suppose there are fifty righteous within the city. Will you then sweep away the place and not spare it for the fifty righteous who are in it? Far be it from you to do such a thing, to put the righteous to death with the wicked, so that the righteous fare as the wicked! Far be that from you! Shall not the Judge of all the earth do what is just?" And the Lord said, "If I find at Sodom fifty righteous in the city, I will spare the whole place for their sake." Abraham answered and said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord, I who am but dust and ashes. Suppose five of the fifty righteous are lacking. Will you destroy the whole city for lack of five?" And he said, "I will not destroy it if I find forty-five there." Again he spoke to him and said, "Suppose forty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of forty I will not do it." Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak. Suppose thirty are found there." He answered, "I will not do it, if I find thirty there." He said, "Behold, I have undertaken to speak to the Lord. Suppose twenty are found there." He answered, "For the sake of twenty I will not destroy it." Then he said, "Oh let not the Lord be angry, and I will speak again but this once. Suppose ten are found there." He answered, "For the sake of ten I will not destroy it." And the Lord went his way, when he had finished speaking to Abraham, and Abraham returned to his place. (Genesis 18:22-33 ESV)

The two angels came to Sodom in the evening, and Lot was sitting in the gate of Sodom. When Lot saw them, he rose to meet them and bowed himself with his face to the earth and said, "My lords, please turn aside to your servant's house and spend the night and wash your feet. Then you may rise up early and go on your way." They said, "No; we will spend the night in the town square." But he pressed them strongly; so they turned aside to him and entered his house. And he made them a feast and baked unleavened bread, and they ate. But before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, both young and old, all the people to the last man, surrounded the house. And they called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us, that we may know them." Lot went out to the men at the entrance, shut the door after him, and said, "I beg you, my brothers, do not act so wickedly. Behold, I have two daughters who have not known any man. Let me bring them out to you, and do to them as you please. Only do nothing to these men, for they have come under the shelter of my roof." But they said, "Stand back!" And they said, "This fellow came to sojourn, and he has become the judge! Now we will deal worse with you than with them." Then they pressed hard against the man Lot, and drew near to break the door down. But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them and shut the door. And they struck with blindness the men who were at the entrance of the house, both small and great, so that they wore themselves out groping for the door. Then the men said to Lot, "Have you anyone else here? Sons-in-law, sons, daughters, or anyone you have in the city, bring them out of the place. For we are about to destroy this place, because the outcry against its people has become great before the Lord, and the Lord has sent us to destroy it." So Lot went out and said to his sons-in-law, who were to marry his daughters, "Up! Get out of this place, for the Lord is about to destroy the city." But he seemed to his sons-in-law to be jesting. As morning dawned, the angels urged Lot, saying, "Up! Take your wife and your two daughters who are here, lest you be swept away in the punishment of the city." But he lingered. So the men seized him and his wife and his two daughters by the hand, the Lord being merciful to him, and they brought him out and set him outside the city. And as they brought them out, one said, "Escape for your life. Do not look back or stop anywhere in the valley. Escape to the hills, lest you be swept away." And Lot said to them, "Oh, no, my lords. Behold, your servant has found favor in your sight, and you have shown me great kindness in saving my life. But I cannot escape to the hills, lest the disaster overtake me and I die. Behold, this city is near enough to flee to, and it is a little one. Let me escape there—is it not a little one?—and my life will be saved!" He said to him, "Behold, I grant you this favor also, that I will not overthrow the city of which you have spoken. Escape there quickly, for I can do nothing till you arrive there." Therefore the name of the city was called Zoar. The sun had risen on the earth when Lot came to Zoar. Then the Lord rained on Sodom and Gomorrah sulfur and fire from the Lord out of heaven. And he overthrew those cities, and all the valley, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and what grew on the ground. But Lot's wife, behind him, looked back, and she became a pillar of salt. And Abraham went early in the morning to the place where he had stood before the Lord. And he looked down toward Sodom and Gomorrah and toward all the land of the valley, and he looked and, behold, the smoke of the land went up like the smoke of a furnace. So it was that, when God destroyed the cities of the valley, God remembered Abraham and sent Lot out of the midst of the overthrow when he overthrew the cities in which Lot had lived. Now Lot went up out of Zoar and lived in the hills with his two daughters, for he was afraid to live in Zoar. So he lived in a cave with his two daughters. And the firstborn said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is not a man on earth to come in to us after the manner of all the earth. Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose. The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father. The firstborn bore a son and called his name Moab. He is the father of the Moabites to this day. The younger also bore a son and called his name Ben-ammi. He is the father of the Ammonites to this day. (Genesis 19:1-38 ESV)

actually it is more than just that,it is unnatural sex.this could define oral sex or any other unnatural means to have sex.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodomy

now this being said marriage bed is honorable but God will judge the fornicators and adulterers.Hebrews 13:4

God will only recognize the marriage between 1 man and 1 woman,not homosexual marriage.

if anyone wants to see the ruins of Sodom here is a excellent documentary on it here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwTVFk1HK3Y

if people want to see proof they only need to read about this in Genesis and watch this documentary.

[HeIsEnough]

I just think this particular episode is somewhat mischaracterized as being about homosexuality, as I see it as being more about rape and a lust to degrade what is beautiful and good.

It was the men they asked for, so I don't think its exactly as you say. They degraded to the lowest form of behavior, yes, I agree. I suppose when when we see it today, we know where they are at, whether homosexuals or rapists.

[Xynthia]

Superficially, they asked for the men because they were strangers (and thus could be subject to rape without social penalty, unlike Lot and his family), but it seems to me that in the deeper sense, they demanded the men because they (the visitors) were angels, or from God. The rapists' hatred was inflamed by the men's godliness, and the hatred took the form of lust. Homosexual rape was a major part of the ancient world because access to women was much more difficult than it is now. These men may or may not have been 'homosexuals' as we think of that word. Whatever the social context, it seems to me the spiritual truth is that you have men attempting to destroy angels.

While a liberal interpretation of this episode (i.e. that it is only about the sin of inhospitality) is disappointing because it ignores the reality that sexual depravity was clearly part of the sin of Sodom, it's also disappointing when an equally selective interpretation insists it is primarily about homosexuality. Ezekiel is a very earthy prophet who does not hesitate to describe sexual sin in blunt, even vulgar, terms, in other situations, yet here he states plainly, and only, that the sin of Sodom was greed, materialism, and cruel treatment of the poor. I think we don't pay enough attention to this verse because in many ways America's materialism and indifference to the global poor who support our idolatrous lifestyle, mirrors that of Sodom. Let's face it, when we're struggling with the sin of greed and materialism and indifference to the very poor (and I do), it's always a lot easier to focus on somebody else's sin (homosexuality) than my own. Personal repentance should be the response to any biblical verse--asking myself 'in what way is God telling me I need to change?". The supernatural quality of the Bible is such that there is no verse in it that does not apply to ME, personally. There is no verse in it that only applies to 'other people' and 'their sin'. Miraculously, each word of it was written specifically just for me--and you, of course. Isn't that amazing?

As for the New Testament verses that focus on the homosexual part of the sin of Sodom, I don't know why God would cause his prophets to focus on different issues in the same biblical story, but perhaps it's because homosexual sin had become much more of a problem by Paul's time (it was an ongoing, accepted institution in Greek and Roman culture.) Had God not caused his New Testament prophets to condemn homosexual behavior in strong terms, it might have crept into Christian culture as well.

[HeIsEnough]

Whatever the social context, it seems to me the spiritual truth is that you have men attempting to destroy angels.

That seems like a leap to me, only a symptom of the underlying cause at best. These men could not conceivably "destroy angels" unless angels came around, so its not the direct message of Sodom.

[Wally]

Homosexual rape was a major part of the ancient world because access to women was much more difficult than it is now.

Ezekiel is a very earthy prophet who does not hesitate to describe sexual sin in blunt, even vulgar, terms, in other situations, yet here he states plainly, and only, that the sin of Sodom was greed, materialism, and cruel treatment of the poor.

Getting to women was more difficult? When they were traded as property?
Where shrine prostitutes offered themselves as part of worship?
And the 2nd oldest profession started when.....(Farming was first)

Did you note the refusal of the men (From ALL over the city, young and old) to have at Lot's daughters?

Did you note Jude had no problem understanding OT Scripture?


And it seems Part 2 of Ezekiel keeps getting overlooked: "they were haughty, and committed abomination before me"



Moses made it easy to understand. Ezekiel uses Sodom as a metaphor for Israel, for he takes the matter further,

Its not just homosexuals, liars, murders.....

Its a heart issue. One that has turned away from God and sought its own pleasure. One that becomes so calloused that it makes excuses for all kinds of conduct.

Its about sin that pervades every aspect of our lives, and unchecked it knows no limits to depravity. My sin , your sin, all sin.


Abomination is a very strong word. It is used for physical sexual depravity, it is also used in spiritual depravity - idol worship.
It is often connected with Molech and other fertility gods who are worshiped through sex and infanticide.

[Xynthia]

re: access to women--yes, it was severely limited. Men and women didn't mix socially. Young women were kept behind closed doors and guarded by their relatives. Temple prostitutes weren't to be found on every street corner and had to be paid. So--like in other severely sex-segregated places like modern-day Afghanistan--homosexual rape was probably common. As for widespread homosexual preference, I don't see the evidence for it until Greco-Roman times. Which, as I said, is maybe why we see the New Testament writers warning against it so much. However, it may be that the city of Sodom had in some way institutionalized homosexual behavior, the way ancient Sparta did. I'm certainly not ignoring the verses by Jude or Paul; they are equally significant. I'm just saying that focusing *solely* on homosexuality as the "Sin of Sodom" is not biblical, and it tends to lead to self-righteousness (assuming the person is not struggling with homosexual sin) and a failure to take to heart Ezekiel's warning about the sins of greed, materialism, and cruelty to the poor--all of which modern society is clearly abundant in. And I would definitely agree that the ultimate abomination that Sodom committed was idol worship. But in modern society, we are involved in even more hideous forms of idol worship--worshipping our physical belongings, cars, houses, material goods, celebrities, physical beauty, and so on. I can think of half a dozen ways in which I struggle with idolatry, which are fully as wicked as those practiced in Sodom. Constantly search your heart and repent, because, for now, we are all residents of Sodom.

Thank Jesus that someday He will come and lead us out!

[Wally]

I take it all the poligamy and captive females from the battling in Genesis reduced the available pool for the loosers?

And the sons of god had no problem finding females. It seems the Bible paints a picture of availibility, but then maybe that was just for Israel.


You do hit the nail. All have sinned and to make light of one by magnifying another tends to miss that fact.

And just as the gay community openly promotes and demands acceptance of their debased conduct,

How many more millions hide in the shadows with secret, little, "non-harmful" sins, thinking God doesn't see so there is nothing to repent about.


Yet so many of us who know Christ struggle each day through the sanctification process, understanding and loving God more and more
for His prefect wisdom, mercy, and grace.