Jehovah's Witnesses *Merged*

[Deb101]

You pray as many have said and ask God for the wisdom and insight to handle this period of your life, then you keep your focus on reading and meditating upon the Word of God. All you should do at this moment is live the gospel before Mom. Lover her, help around the house and what ever may be practical and wherever God opens an opportunity. If you are assaulted by any of the JW, just excuse yourself and leave.

[carol1948]

I asked my JW sister who is very into JW and their bible studies to search the scriptures, OT and NT, and tell me who is the King of Kings. She has never responded. She won't because the OT identifies God as King and NT tells us Jesus is King. There are many, many scriptures to offer them, but unless they are seeking it won't help. Just continue to pray. I've determined the demons in them are the ones that can only be removed through much prayer.

[Snoopynstorm]

I was trying to think of what comment of mine that was a response to. I mentioned Hebrews 7:3 in one post because it proves Jesus's eternality and no JW can claim that's not talking of Jesus. I also mentioned Isaiah 44:24 in a later post which says Yahweh alone made the universe, yet the NT (as JWs believe too) ascribes the creation to Jesus (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16). I wasn't really thinking of Heb 1:10 but that is a good verse since it is a quote of an OT psalm (the number escapes me) which talks about Yahweh's role in creation and yet the author of Hebrews applies those words to Jesus, thus equating Jesus with Yahweh. Furthermore, the verse clearly IS about Jesus. Look at Heb 1 in its entirety:

In verse 4 the author says Jesus is better than the angels. He then explains why in verses 5-6 by noting that no angel was called God's Son. Then, in verse 6, he notes angels worship the Son; and in verse 7 he quotes a psalm which speaks of angels being a creation, and he juxtaposes this with a quote in verses 8-9 which shows Jesus is eternal. He continues the theme in verse 10 by attributing the creation to Jesus. He's not attributing it to God the Father, as JWs might claim, since that'd be pointless and wouldn't fit the flow of the argument.





Yes, there's is a danger of that. I generally tried not to use too many verses with them. I would not necessarily bother with John 1:1 since they'll end up quoting (alleged) Greek experts at you and you'll quote experts at them and you'll not get far since they'll stick with their's as authorative. The "first and last" argument I only used once since their translation is doctored to get around its clear implications (there are anti-JW websites like 4witnesses or Macgregor ministries which should run you through how to use the argument effectively though).

BTW, I wouldn't bring up 1 John 5:7 since almost all scholars believe that was a very late edition to the text and was not in the original.

I love Hebrews 1! It provides so much proof. Sadly, it has been twisted. As for a 1 John 5:7, they edited out Father,Son and Holy Spirit anyways...tragic. Heb. 7:3? I'd love to know their respounce on that one.

You said it's a danger,right? :sighs: I'd love to know an effective way to not get caught up in "Bible Ping Pong"... I've been to 4witnesses before. Not sure about Macgregor.

How can you argue with anyone and NOT use bible verses?

I'd like to know that as well...

Wow, I'm confused. If I quote a Bible verse they'll go to their altered translation. They're not allowed to read the Bible alone or in small groups...I've even heard they read the Watchtower more than the Bible. After they got finished with "Bible Study" (they used the yellow book more than the Bible although they read out of the Bible just not as much) I thought we would start reading the Bible from Genesis onward. Nope. They're even forbidden from "indepedent thinking" for it produces "pride" and is of Satan... :sighs:

May the Holy Spirit open their eyes...

You pray as many have said and ask God for the wisdom and insight to handle this period of your life, then you keep your focus on reading and meditating upon the Word of God. All you should do at this moment is live the gospel before Mom. Lover her, help around the house and what ever may be practical and wherever God opens an opportunity. If you are assaulted by any of the JW, just excuse yourself and leave.

Prayer seems like the best thing that can be done right now. Thank you. That and like you said showing love.

I asked my JW sister who is very into JW and their bible studies to search the scriptures, OT and NT, and tell me who is the King of Kings. She has never responded. She won't because the OT identifies God as King and NT tells us Jesus is King. There are many, many scriptures to offer them, but unless they are seeking it won't help. Just continue to pray. I've determined the demons in them are the ones that can only be removed through much prayer.

Does she have a nickname? I'd like to pray for her.

[james46888]

I love Hebrews 1! It provides so much proof. Sadly, it has been twisted. As for a 1 John 5:7, they edited out Father,Son and Holy Spirit anyways...tragic. Heb. 7:3? I'd love to know their respounce on that one.

Well, as I say, I don't think it was in the original text anway so there's something me and the JWs would agree on . Regarding Heb 7:3, none gave me a response when I brought it up. They said they'd ask another JW for an answer and get back to me but never did. This is how they operate when they can't answer a question - they generally have no intention of finding an answer and hope you forget about it (I'm not really sure they have an official response to that verse in their literature either). See, if the shoe was on the other foot and they brought up something I couldn't answer I'd make sure I found the answer as soon as possible, not just to try and prove them wrong but also because I'd be interested to see if maybe my interpretation was wrong. The JWs, in contrast, generally aren't interested in being wrong and correcting errors - they interested in defending their organisations teachings and showing you you're wrong. If people want to twist verses, you can't stop them. But you can show them how absurd they are being and hopefully they'll admit this to themselves at some point and wake up.

You said it's a danger,right? :sighs: I'd love to know an effective way to not get caught up in "Bible Ping Pong"... I've been to 4witnesses before. Not sure about Macgregor.

Pick and choose your verses. Don't try and throw too much at them (I'm not sure of your relationship with them, but I used to do an hour Bible study with them once a week. This consisted of going through that yellow book you mentioned - I chose to study that book with them because I knew it'd give me time to discuss things properly and make it hard for them to make excuses and walk away when they couldn't answer). If they don't have answer for a specific verse, make sure they know it. Even get a bit of paper and write down your questions and when they can't give you answer write it down front of them and bring it up every time you meet.

[carol1948]

Does she have a nickname? I'd like to pray for her.[/QUOTE]


Her name is Donna, no nickname; my other sister who is also JW is Judy, which is a nickname. Thank you so much for your prayers. As far as I know I am the only one praying for their rescue from this dark cult into the light of the Lord. To add your prayers would be wonderful. Thank you again.

[Snoopynstorm]

Pick and choose your verses. Don't try and throw too much at them (I'm not sure of your relationship with them, but I used to do an hour Bible study with them once a week. This consisted of going through that yellow book you mentioned - I chose to study that book with them because I knew it'd give me time to discuss things properly and make it hard for them to make excuses and walk away when they couldn't answer). If they don't have answer for a specific verse, make sure they know it. Even get a bit of paper and write down your questions and when they can't give you answer write it down front of them and bring it up every time you meet.

Well, the elder doesn't come around anymore. His wife brings a different person each time. It's not often but it's random (usually ether before noon or a little after).

We finished the study quite awhile back. I've talked to them before. It's been like 4 years since they first came. I don't expect it when his wife and another person arrive.

Her name is Donna, no nickname; my other sister who is also JW is Judy, which is a nickname. Thank you so much for your prayers. As far as I know I am the only one praying for their rescue from this dark cult into the light of the Lord. To add your prayers would be wonderful. Thank you again.

I can pray for them both.

[Snoopynstorm]

James, would it be ok to talk about Hebrews 7:3 some more?

Forgive me if I've sounded resitent in any of my posts. That's what happens when fear and doubt show up...

Anyways,God is helping me through that. I like how you mentioned they couldn't find an answer for Hebrews 7:3. s

[james46888]

James, would it be ok to talk about Hebrews 7:3 some more?

Forgive me if I've sounded resitent in any of my posts. That's what happens when fear and doubt show up...

Anyways,God is helping me through that. I like how you mentioned they couldn't find an answer for Hebrews 7:3. s

Im writing this response on my phone which I find difficult to type on so forgive me if I dont reply anymore. So in Heb 7 the author is comparing Jesus to Melchizedek, who was king of Jerusalem back in Genesis. The author notes that Melcy had no beginning or end since his birth and death arent recorded in Scripture. Obviously, being human, Melcy did literally have a birth and death but because theyre unrecorded the author is using this silence to compare him to Jesus, a being who literally had no beginning.

[Snoopynstorm]

Im writing this response on my phone which I find difficult to type on so forgive me if I dont reply anymore. So in Heb 7 the author is comparing Jesus to Melchizedek, who was king of Jerusalem back in Genesis. The author notes that Melcy had no beginning or end since his birth and death arent recorded in Scripture. Obviously, being human, Melcy did literally have a birth and death but because theyre unrecorded the author is using this silence to compare him to Jesus, a being who literally had no beginning.

I understand friend about the phone. All, ok that's what they mean. Thanks for the scripture it's a good one!

[SheltieMom]

Hi snoopy, I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness so I understand what you are going through. I was initially shunned by my family for becoming a Christian but I kept praying and my mother's heart softened and we have a restored relationship now. She has even been receptive to listening to some Christian sermons. Please pray for my family.

My advice would be to pray for your mother. Satan has blinded her and only God can open her eyes to the gospel. All the best arguments in the world are meaningless if her heart is not receptive. Ask God for wisdom and help in saying the right thing and the right time and that what you say will fall on "good soil".

I also echo the advice to check out http://4witness.org/ Ther is a lot of good info there and if you write to them, they will send you a free DVD that gives advice on how to witness to JWs.

[Snoopynstorm]

Hi snoopy, I'm an ex-Jehovah's Witness so I understand what you are going through. I was initially shunned by my family for becoming a Christian but I kept praying and my mother's heart softened and we have a restored relationship now. She has even been receptive to listening to some Christian sermons. Please pray for my family.

My advice would be to pray for your mother. Satan has blinded her and only God can open her eyes to the gospel. All the best arguments in the world are meaningless if her heart is not receptive. Ask God for wisdom and help in saying the right thing and the right time and that what you say will fall on "good soil".

I also echo the advice to check out http://4witness.org/ Ther is a lot of good info there and if you write to them, they will send you a free DVD that gives advice on how to witness to JWs.

What's your mom's nickname? It's easier to pray that way for someone.

All the best arguments are useless... What do I do when I'm asked by mom or the JW's some questions? It's true the best arguments are useless and only God can open her heart...

Free DVD? That seems risky...please pray.

[Resting]

After reading through this thread, it is my impression that you are afraid about what will happen to you and your relationship with your family - especially your Mom - if and when they find out you are a Christian.

Please remember that Jesus loves you AND your Mom and the JW church people (I'm not aware of the specific terminology). All of them.

Do not let your fear stand in the way of your testimony.
1 Chronicles 28:20
David also said to Solomon his son, "Be strong and courageous, and do the work. Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you until all the work for the service of the temple of the LORD is finished.
Isaiah 41:13
For I am the LORD, your God, who takes hold of your right hand and says to you, Do not fear; I will help you.
1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on your guard; stand firm in the faith; be men of courage; be strong.
2 Timothy 1:7
For God has not given us a spirit of fear and timidity, but of power, love, and self-discipline.
1 Peter 3:13-14
Who is going to harm you if you are eager to do good? But even if you should suffer for what is right, you are blessed. "Do not fear what they fear; do not be frightened."

At the same time, make sure you remember the LOVE part of 2Timothy 1:7. When you witness to your mom, do it in LOVE, and remember that it is not the power the words that come out of your mouth, but rather it is the power of the Holy Spirit who indwells and will speak through you and into your mom's heart and mind that will make a difference.

[SheltieMom]

What's your mom's nickname? It's easier to pray that way for someone.

Shirley

All the best arguments are useless... What do I do when I'm asked by mom or the JW's some questions? It's true the best arguments are useless and only God can open her heart...

Let me clarify - you need to educate yourself AND pray. My point was that knowing all the answers is useless without prayer. And even if you do pray, your Mother is the one that ultimately has to be open to the gospel. Go to the websites that were recommended. I personally know the owners of both TowerWatch and 4Witness.org. They are good websites, have the answers to every question you could possibly ask about JWs and are staffed by wonderful Christians who have a great desire to reach JWs for Christ.

Free DVD? That seems risky...please pray.

4witness.org (Also known as Witnesses For Jesus) is a 501(c)3 charitable non-profit organization. They are supported by churches and individual donations. They are well known in the apologetics community and help put on the annual "Witnesses Now For Jesus" Convention in New Ringgold, Pennsylvania that helps former Jehovah's Witnesses "recover" from their past in the cult and trains Christians on how to reach out to JWs. They are legitamite. Regardless, if you don't want to contact them, there is boatloads of info on their website that can help you without you ever having to write them. http://4witness.org/jehovahs_witness/jw_material.php

I wish you the best in talking to your Mom.

[Snoopynstorm]

Resting, yes. That's the road block in my faith. Because of the risk of shunning. And worse yet she'd only be allowed around JWs and potential converts. That and who knows who in this family would also join...It's a combination of fear and guilt.

I can add Shirley to my prayer list.

So, it's still a good idea to look for answers to their questions?

I've talked to a couple ex.-JW's online from 4Jehovah.org. They've been a blessing.

All, I don't mean it's risky as in a bad organzation. 4Jehovah is a very nice website. I mean if I got the video and mom got it out of the mailbox and if the video out some "anti-JW wording" on it she may ask me about it. Sorry friend s if I was confusing.

The most importent thing I've been missing is love. I need to know how to witness in love...

[SheltieMom]

Resting, yes. That's the road block in my faith. Because of the risk of shunning. And worse yet she'd only be allowed around JWs and potential converts. That and who knows who in this family would also join...It's a combination of fear and guilt.

Were you baptized a JW? If not, she would not be under any obligation to shun you. Even if you were, the shunning may open her eyes. No mother really wants to shun their child. I know of several that have rebuilt relationships with their families after a shunning. Just keep praying, do your research and wait until God to gives you an open door.

I can add Shirley to my prayer list.

Thank you!

So, it's still a good idea to look for answers to their questions?

Definitely! Just stay in constant prayer. It is a tremendous spiritual battle but God is so much bigger than all this. And remember, we already have the victory in Christ!

always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil. 1 Pet 3:15-17

I've talked to a couple ex.-JW's online from 4Jehovah.org. They've been a blessing.

All, I don't mean it's risky as in a bad organzation. 4Jehovah is a very nice website. I mean if I got the video and mom got it out of the mailbox and if the video out some "anti-JW wording" on it she may ask me about it. Sorry friend s if I was confusing.

Sorry for misunderstanding! I have been out of the JWs so long that I forgot about the ever-present "fear factor". I totally understand!

The most importent thing I've been missing is love. I need to know how to witness in love...

That's the hardest part for me too! Especially since it's soooooo frustrating to deal with people who have a cult mentality. Combine that with the shunning aspect and it really plays with your emotions.

[Snoopynstorm]

Were you baptized a JW? If not, she would not be under any obligation to shun you. Even if you were, the shunning may open her eyes. No mother really wants to shun their child. I know of several that have rebuilt relationships with their families after a shunning. Just keep praying, do your research and wait until God to gives you an open door.



Thank you!



Definitely! Just stay in constant prayer. It is a tremendous spiritual battle but God is so much bigger than all this. And remember, we already have the victory in Christ!

always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, having a good conscience, so that, when you are slandered, those who revile your good behavior in Christ may be put to shame. For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that should be God's will, than for doing evil. 1 Pet 3:15-17





Sorry for misunderstanding! I have been out of the JWs so long that I forgot about the ever-present "fear factor". I totally understand!




That's the hardest part for me too! Especially since it's soooooo frustrating to deal with people who have a cult mentality. Combine that with the shunning aspect and it really plays with your emotions.

Neither of us have been baptized.

Your welcome sis s.

Ok, continue seeking out answers. That's very good.

That's ok sis. . The "fear factor" has a very strong grip sadly.

I'll pray for you. It's like a big gangster boss sends out some people. They hold the people spiritually hostage. If one wrong thing is said it could make things worse. Sadly, the people holding others hostage is under bondage as well. And it's difficult knowing one wrong move and they could pull a spiritual trigger.

Yes, between playing with a person's emotions,shunning and knowing some very diffuclt consuqeunces could happen...that's what makes it really agrivating. I'm afraid of the consiquences yet I know fear is holding me back from faith and love. :sighs: I fel like I'm going in circles.

[SheltieMom]

Neither of us have been baptized.

That's good news then! Shunning only applies to those who have been baptized as JWs. If you are not baptized then she would have no reason to shun you! Even if she gets baptized, she would still have no reason to shun you. And you would not be considered an apostate because you were never baptized. At worst, you could be considered "bad association" - but that would only be the case if you were heavily involved in the JWs (such as going door-to-door, giving talks, etc)- but they still would not be required to shun you. I hope that helps some!

[IMSAVED]

A friend of mine brought a small booklet over to me at work.He said "Hey,what do you think about this?". I crumpled it up and threw it in the garbage.

[Snoopynstorm]

That's good news then! Shunning only applies to those who have been baptized as JWs. If you are not baptized then she would have no reason to shun you! Even if she gets baptized, she would still have no reason to shun you. And you would not be considered an apostate because you were never baptized. At worst, you could be considered "bad association" - but that would only be the case if you were heavily involved in the JWs (such as going door-to-door, giving talks, etc)- but they still would not be required to shun you. I hope that helps some!

The thing is I'm afraid they'll tell her I'm an "enemy of Jehovah". They'll be afraid I'm, like you said they'd consider me "bad assosication". And since I'm not a JW I may not be allowed around her; she may only be allowed around other JWs and potential converts. It'd be great if they'd let her still be around non-JWs! I just thought she wouldn't be allowed to associate with unbelievers(including myself) unless they were potential converts.

You know how much fear (not sure of the guit but hopefully) would be taken off of my shoulders if she was still allowed around non-JWs? I could witness to her so much easier. If that problem wasn't there....

I'd love it if she could see my aunt (dad's sister) than. She's a Christian. We just haven't seen her for quite awhile. But, who knows nothing is impossible with God. One day a long while back we seen her at Kroger.

IMSAVED,which book was it? It's best not to throw it away in front of them. If they see you do that they may think you're persecuting them.

[carol1948]

My sisters and their families are very into JW. They were/are allowed to associate with me and my family. However, I think this has to do with how confident JW is that their members will not be influenced by us (Christians). Since my relative are very active in JW they are given more freedom in their associations. I no longer associate with them anymore in accordance with 2Jo 7-11. This was my decision and not a result of anyone's influence other than the Holy Spirit.