Lost

[jemz20]

[i dont know where to put this, so feel free to move it..]

I honestly feel so lost in respect to the nature of salvation.
I honestly dont know what it means anymore.

After my on going reading of my bible I truly get confused on the nature of salvation and so i've been trying to research further reading through books of ministers and preachers whom i respect and am convinced have a solid biblical background, as well as coming here to read over the theology here..

But it is utterly confusing for me due to the contradictions on the nature of salvation.

Such as the teaching of salvation is a walk and not a moment of justification [Derek Prince, Joseph Chambers], you can lose it if you are moved from the foundation of your faith... through to Chuck Missler, Jack Kelly and other, OSAS. All of whom i respect and both whom seem to truly stand solidly on the word.

BUT it is utterly confusing for me due to the contradictions on the nature of salvation. What on earth did Jesus purchase for us at the cross....????? Truth is exclusive so these cant be both right in the same way at the same time. One is Godly the other satanic.

With my mind i adhere to the teaching of Eternal Salvation, moment of justification and then you are sealed..
But with my heart i adhere to the teaching of a walk salvation, a salvation that is eternally kept so long as you keep living a life of repentance in faith, continually lead by the spirit, or risk falling away, and then sealed in apostasy. (which if true, i got no hope what so ever, even though i remain alive, i'm lost, kind of like how the promise was eternally lost to esau even though he sought it with tears but couldn't find any place for repentance? which is interesting because i feel like this in my spirit)

This is honestly so bad i'm at the point of dropping out of my youth group, as i'm one of the leaders and helpers there, and if i'm wavery like this then i shouldnt be in this position. I dont even want to be at church anymore. Ive been praying over this for along time and i just have no peace where ever i turn, the bible, prayer or pastors.

[Longing2cJesus]

Hi jemz20,

Let's go to God's Word and see what He tells us in regards to salvation.

Psalm 118 tells us: Psa 118:8 [It is] better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.

God tells us in His Word to place our trust in the LORD and not in man. When we read God's Word we are filled with hope and encouragement and the Holy Spirit which indwells us leads us into the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1 John tells us that the anointing/the Holy Spirit is our teacher. 1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

In John 3:16 we are told if we believe we would not perish but have everlasting life in Christ Jesus.

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When we believe we become children of God and are "sealed".

2Cr 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God; 2Cr 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

By being sealed and belonging to Jesus, no man is able to pluck us out of God's hand.

Jhn 10:29 My Father, which gave [them] me, is greater than all; and no [man] is able to pluck [them] out of my Father's hand.

We are secure in our salvation by what God tells us in His Word.

1Cr 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

As Paul tells us in 1 Corinthians, our faith does not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

God's Word is where you will always find the truth. The Holy Spirit that indwells you will always show you the truth.

I hope this helps you understand that once you believe, you are sealed by God and given to Jesus and no one can pluck you out of His hand.

If you have any questions, please ask and we will be happy to answer them.

Ann

[iSong6:3]

I'm on my tablet now, until I can get to my other computer to post more I will be praying for you, I feel your pain and confusion in your words.

The Lord wants us to have assurance of our salvation, to have peace and security in Him, because of Who He is and what He did, not for anything of ourselves (e.g. how well we *hold on*, how *good* we are, etc.) Point is, it's all about the Lord and nothing about us.

More later, dear one...

[yeshua'sbride]

[PcBStl]

[Steve53]

Simply put, those that preach and teach a conditional, works based, you can lose your salvation theology will have their day before the Lord.

Christ will lose none that are His.

I pray you can find some peace in the assurance that God cannot lie and for those truly saved by grace through faith, there is nothing to fear in Heaven or on earth.



http://rr-bb.com/showthread.php?1159...ight=salvation

[icebear]

[Joseph The Carpenter]

Praying

[jemz20]

Thanks for your encouragement guys.
just gonna go spend some bible time and prayer.

[DMac]

Praying.

[iSong6:3]

jemz - Reading the Bible for what it says about salvation and what Jesus did on the cross and praying for God to help you understand is the best thing you can do.

Meditate on such things as 1 John 5:13 - These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Ask yourself: What things has he written? What is the purpose? What does "know" mean? What does "have" mean? What does eternal life entail? Bathe your mind in God's theology.

Speaking of theology, you mention some men you feel are solid in their doctrine, but as you say, they can't all be because they come out polar opposite on OSAS.

Chambers is a classic Pentecostal, his doctrine is that as long as we're behaving, we are saved, but if we sin and don't confess it and repent (meaning to stop doing that sin ever), our salvation is revoked and the Holy Spirit is taken from us.

Is that what the Bible says? No.

It may mean for you to study Calvinism (I assume some Calvinist told you God rejected Esau even though Esau wanted God?) and Pentecostal doctrine to see if they square with the Word. If not, you can disregard their doctrinal fruit.

I was once where you are now. It took really studying doctrines against the Word to see if they stood or fell. Once I realized what Jesus died to purchase on that cross, once I realized that He is big enough never to let me go (I tried) just as He promised...after all that and some more, I am not unstable anymore, even things that I figured were intractable emotional problems (insecurity, etc.) left when I realized where I stood with God.

It's alllll about Jesus, not of us.

[HeIsEnough]

a salvation that is eternally kept so long as you keep living a life of repentance in faith

I didn't see enough detail to understand your situation, but only unbelief is falling in God's eyes. If you believe in your heart that God raised Christ from the dead, and you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, you shall be saved. By the skin of our teeth or with a parade, those who believe in Him will never be put to shame. Sometimes we need to take time to regroup and just sit down in life and read the word and draw close to God. Singing praise is also very helpful.

[TaliaKirana]

I've been there jemz. Not a fun place to be... I came to realize I had to trust God's promises, and He promised that He would lose none of us. I am so grateful it's not up to me to maintain my salvation, because I would certainly botch it. And I've lived through some rather spectacular failures in my behavior. I was saved very young, but I spent several years doubting God and struggling with various issues (lying, homosexual attraction, anger). But in the end, Jesus keeps bringing this wanderer home.

[pixelpusher]

Jemz, I've been there too. Salvation proceeds from a moment, and it has nothing to do with our effort, except that we repent and believe. That is our part, to respond to God's call and provision of Grace. Sanctification is both instantaneous and experiential, on the one hand, we are immediately set apart for God, on the other, we walk out a growing sanctification as we decrease and He increases in our daily lives.

If we have to walk out our salvation by being good, then I, like you, am lost. In fact, I don't know anyone who would make it. That kind of idea of salvation puts the onus on us to earn or keep our salvation, and there is no peace or assurance in it if we are honest with ourselves.

What others have said. It is all about Jesus and what He did for us. When God forgives us based on Jesus' righteousness, and gives us the deposit of the Holy Spirit, it is for keeps. We may backslide, we will fall short. But He will finish the work He started in us. The ones who say we can lose our salvation can present equally as compelling arguments as the ones who preach once saved always saved, but we have to stack it up against the Word. Ultimately, that is what we go by. Interpretations may vary, but listen to the witness of the Spirit to your spirit.

Satan loves for us to doubt and be in turmoil, because it is paralyzing. But by God, Jesus can make the paralytic stand up and walk, if the man will only get up and take some steps. Resist the devil and he will go away. Stand firm on God's Word, not the other word that comes to you, for God's Word will endure forever. And His Word tells you repent and believe and you will be saved. He knew what he was getting when He bought you. It's humbling in the extreme. When you realize the extent of His love and grace and mercy for you, it brings about a response that produces good fruit and rivers of living water. You become a conduit, for lack of a better word, for the Holy Spirit to restrain and influence this world, and light the way for others to come to Christ. When I walk behind someone else on the trail, and they have a flashlight, their light also lights my path. If they have a mini maglight, it just casts a little light for me, but if they have one of those whacking big million candle spotlights, it lights up every nook and cranny. "Thy Word is a lamp unto my feet and a light unto my path." Believe it. Just believe. Like a kid.

My brother and fellow designer, I am praying for you right now, and it's personal because I know how dark it can be. Let's get that lamp lit up so we can see where we're going. Where we are being brought to. And let's use it to go through our packs and see what we can leave beside the trail to lighten our load and help us walk stronger.

[jeri559]

Jemz, I've been where you are (was for years) but thanks to God no more! Pizelpusher....what a great and inspiring post and I totally agree with you! Jemz will be praying for you! God is not about confusion and His promises and message is simple and free to all. Let His Word lead you.

[jemz20]

Thankyou very much for all your responses to me. It is encouraging to realize that i'm not alone here in the sense that you guys are able to relate to whats going around my mind and heart. I also really appreciate the prayers too.

[$teve]

(which if true, i got no hope what so ever, even though i remain alive, i'm lost, kind of like how the promise was eternally lost to esau even though he sought it with tears but couldn't find any place for repentance? which is interesting because i feel like this in my spirit)

Ah that just reminded me of one of my own battles back in the day.

Some great responses above. Just want to say that so many of us have struggled with the issues you outline in your post. And not just us, but ironically it was my own unfaithfulness and weakness that showed forth the Lord's faithfulness and strength, in terms of our salvation. Indeed 'For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God' (Ephesians 2:8-9).

2 Timothy 2:13 - If we believe not, yet he stays faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Matthew 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he sends forth justice unto victory.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for you: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather boast in my weaknesses, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

[jackson64]

You need to read Romans 7:14-25 and Romans 8:1-10 I urge you to please read, pray and meditate on these things immediately. I also struggled with this issue however there is no contradiction on this issue in the Bible. Our sin is sealed within our flesh-Paul struggled mightily with "doing what he did not want to do (sin)"...we all do, however our spirits are sealed by the Holy Spirit, we are children of God through our belief in Jesus and because His sacrifice and blood was enough !! Enough for our pre-belief sins and enough for our sins we still struggle with.

There is no "Grace through Works" as so many teach mistakenly. If there were then the entire premise of Christianity and Christ's sacrifice on the cross is pointless and meaningless--Let me explain.....

Had mankind been capable of living sin-free while in the flesh, then we would still be under the old law and also man would have no need of redemption. God would simply collect those to Himself who did not sin and discard the sinful. We know this is not true. Throughout the Bible we know that NOBODY- not even one--is without sin ( except Jesus Christ of course) for all are sinners and fall short of God's holiness, righteousness, and perfection.

Man failed in the garden and chose the knowledge of good and evil--disobediance to God instead of perfect fellowship with God.
Man failed again living by the Law and sacrificial system of old testament canons ( time and again)
Finally, when God realized these imperfect and sinful by nature humans were never going to become pure enough or righteous and holy enough to be joined with Him in His majesty throughout eternity, He then unleashed His ultimate plan. In the body of a man He became the perfect sacrifice in the God/man person of Jesus Christ and our atonement for sins-past, present and future were gone for good if we only accept the gift.

A friend of mine gave me the simple definition of the word GRACE: = an undeserved gift.....we can never earn it, Christ freely gave His life in exchange for the freedom of the spirits/souls of sinful man. Someday we will be free of these fleshly vessels and hence free of sin--have peace in your spirit knowing that you are bought and paid for by the precious blood of our Lord Jesus Christ--God loved you so much that He arranged it so that you could spend eternity with Him in unending joy, peace and surrounded by His love........God Bless You.

[Shining Brightly]

Your salvation is not dependent on you otherwise Jesus would not have had to die on the Cross, right? So once you are saved, it's because of what Christ did on the Cross and your trust and belief in that. This is accompanied by conviction and repentance - a turning away from sin. It doesn't mean you're sinless. However, do compare your life to that which is written in the Bible. If you love Christ you have to and want to obey his teaching. That's what He says. If you're not following His teaching then you are living in disobedience to His Will. So ask God to show you any obvious sin in your life, you will know what it is and repent and ask Him to help you live an obedient, God-glorifying life for Him.

I took this from GotQuestions. I hope it blesses you:

Question: "How can I have assurance of my salvation?"

Answer: How can you know for sure if you are saved? Consider 1 John 5:11-13: “And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” Who is it that has the Son? It is those who have believed in Him and accepted Him (John 1:12). If you have Jesus, you have life. Not temporary life, but eternal.

God wants us to have assurance of our salvation. We cannot live our Christian lives wondering and worrying each day whether or not we are truly saved. That is why the Bible makes the plan of salvation so clear. Believe in Jesus Christ and you will be saved (John 3:16; Acts 16:31). Do you believe that Jesus is the Savior, that He died to pay the penalty for your sins (Romans 5:8; 2 Corinthians 5:21)? Are you trusting Him alone for salvation? If your answer is yes, you are saved! Assurance means “having been put beyond all doubt.” By taking God's Word to heart, you can “put beyond all doubt” the fact and reality of your eternal salvation.

Jesus Himself affirms this regarding those who have believed in Him: “I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand” (John 10:28-29). Eternal life is just that—eternal. There is no one, not even yourself, who can take Christ's God-given gift of salvation away from you.

We hide God's Word in our hearts so that we do not sin against Him (Psalm 119:11), and this includes the sin of doubt. Take joy in what God's Word is saying to you, that instead of doubting we can live with confidence! We can have the assurance from Christ's own Word that our salvation will never be in question. Our assurance is based on God's love for us through Jesus Christ.

Here is the link to the site: http://www.gotquestions.org/assurance-salvation.html

[JoyJoyJoy]

I've been there, too, my friend. Keep reading, praying and studying. It took me over a year to realize that my Salvation really is based on what Jesus did, not what I do. And like you said, if it were based on me, I would never enter Heaven. Eventually a light bulb will go off in your head and you will realize that you are in His Hand and can not be removed. Praise God and His Son!! When you finally 'get it', and you know that you know that you know that you are eternally saved, you will want to jump and shout!!!