Falling away

[gma dolittle]

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man decieve you by any means: for that shall not come, except there come a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. In the US, the falling away has happened big time. Small country churches that was full of Christians fifty years ago are shutting their doors due to the lack of members. Sinners no longer come to church to hear the word of God preached. Revivals are not held anymore. When I was a child, our summer nights were spent going to different churches to revivals and brush harber revivals. The Holy Spirit is restrained in churches. When I was a child, I remember hearing my mother shouting when she was giving a blessing from God. I was raised in, and still am a Free will Baptist. You would hear a lot of "amen, tell it brother, and praise God, etc." during the preaching services. Now, once in a while you hear a man or woman say "amen."

Large churches are bringing in the world to attract young people. I know of a church that had a pool party and a bikini contest, with the pasture as the judge. Ministers wear sweats and jeans to church. Congregation dress as they wish from wearing jeans to revealing tops and shorts. When I was a child, my dad told me that the church house was the house of God and I would dress in my best to go to the house of God. I know many women feel it is acceptable to wear slacks, but I don't.

Mega churches are preaching 'love" only and not about the cost of sin or that hell exist. 'Falling away" mean leaving the faith. You can be a member of a church, donate money, do charitable things for the community, but if you are not doing this to glorify God, but to inhance your standing in the community... they you are part of the 'falling away."

[$teve]

While there's certainly a point about revealing dress in some churches, what of people who cannot afford the finest clothing that you speak of with regard to wearing the best one has to church? Should they be excluded from church if they are not dressed in a manner you deem acceptable?

[gma dolittle]

While there's certainly a point about revealing dress in some churches, what of people who cannot afford the finest clothing that you speak of with regard to wearing the best one has to church? Should they be excluded from church if they are not dressed in a manner you deem acceptable?

That is not what I meant. We were very poor and our clothes were usually home made. Men wearing jeans to church is different than women wearing jeans. Wearing a dress to the house of God doesn't necessarily mean expensive... a lot of my dresses are gotten from yard sales, or thrift stores. I do not have the money to spend at JC Pennies, etc. However, I do believe that a minister should wear dress clothes. He usually is paid and he is the leader of the church and should set an example to his flock. When I said "the best", I did not meant money wise, but the best you have. No one should be excluded from church, yet the house of God should be respected as such.

[jadeeyes]

I don't wear jeans to church, but I just might do so tomorrow because I will be busy all day and well into the night ansd won't have much time to make sure I have something nicer for church. My Bible does't tell me I have to wear my best clothes to church. I will wear clean clothes that are not wrinkled or in disrepair and I will dress modestly. I also won't be concerned about what others wear. Who knows. A woman in jeans and a tshirt just might be wearing her best. I won't worry too much about those external things and I will step aside so that God can work on the things that are internal, both in me and in others.

[KissyLoves]

I think the jeans and best clothes comment is taking away from what Gma was getting at with her OP. The sad state of affairs in most churches is evident and certainly can be noticed in the clothes people wear - just last week there was a girl at the alter with a speghetti strap dress that cut way too far down, IMHO. I don't begrudge her for coming to church, that may very well be the only dress she had, I do pray that the Holy Sprirt convicts her and she covers up this Sunday, even if that means wearing jeans.

[Shannon9602]

I am a bit bothered when pastors or preachers earn more money than the average people. It seems as if they put more energy trying to receive money than reaching out. Driving around in an expensive car, sending their children to a private school, living in a large nice home in a very well to do neighborhood, and wearing name brand clothes. This, IMO, is not the way to reach out to people and reaching out only those in their type of class. What happened to those that preach because they actually want to reach out to any type of sinners (Not just in their range of economic class) regardless of their financial condition?? If no money is pouring in they just up and quit....

[KissyLoves]

But what about respecting their position - they are the leaders and coming to church dressed in Burmuda Shorts and a Hula Shirt is not respectful of their position. My pastor doesn't dress to the 9s but you'd never catch him being disrepectful to his position or to God's house.

[jadeeyes]

II Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man decieve you by any means: for that shall not come, except there come a falling away first,and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. In the US, the falling away has happened big time. Small country churches that was full of Christians fifty years ago are shutting their doors due to the lack of members. Sinners no longer come to church to hear the word of God preached. Revivals are not held anymore. When I was a child, our summer nights were spent going to different churches to revivals and brush harber revivals. The Holy Spirit is restrained in churches. When I was a child, I remember hearing my mother shouting when she was giving a blessing from God. I was raised in, and still am a Free will Baptist. You would hear a lot of "amen, tell it brother, and praise God, etc." during the preaching services. Now, once in a while you hear a man or woman say "amen."

Large churches are bringing in the world to attract young people. I know of a church that had a pool party and a bikini contest, with the pasture as the judge. Ministers wear sweats and jeans to church. Congregation dress as they wish from wearing jeans to revealing tops and shorts. When I was a child, my dad told me that the church house was the house of God and I would dress in my best to go to the house of God. I know many women feel it is acceptable to wear slacks, but I don't.

Mega churches are preaching 'love" only and not about the cost of sin or that hell exist. 'Falling away" mean leaving the faith. You can be a member of a church, donate money, do charitable things for the community, but if you are not doing this to glorify God, but to inhance your standing in the community... they you are part of the 'falling away."

All that you are saying is true in many churches and it seems to be spreading. We were warned this would happen. But the good news is that it's not happening everywhere. There are still churches that preach the gospel and warn people ofhell. There are churches where the Pastor and the leadership are still concerned about reaching the lost and telling them about what Jesus did for them. I think we need to be praying for the lost and sharing the gospel with them every chance we get . I think we need to pray for those who are sitting in these churches where their ears are being tickled. I'm sure you are praying and witnessing because you are so very concerned. It sounds to me like you have a heart for the lost and that is wonderful. I pray the Lord would convict all of us who need it about praying for and reaching the lost.

[Tall Timbers]

I recently visited a church that I used to like. The church used to be packed to the gills for it's services. What I remember seeing a lot of at that service was folks drinking coffee and carrying on side conversations throughout the service, bare cleavage and otherwise provocative attire that I personally don't think is appropriate for a Christian woman to wear almost anywhere. The majority of seats were also empty. Don't know what happened to this church, but whatever happened wasn't good.

[jackson64]

Wonderful post GMA Doolittle..I agree 100% that there is an obvious falling away--and the verse about not adhering to sound doctrine and itching ears goes hand in hand with this.

I was a member of a Church here in Calvert County-southern maryland for years and years. In a far liberal and secular state like Maryland, many would be surprised to know that the majority of the state-area wise-is still very conservative ( 19 of the 23 counties actually voted for McCain over Obama even)..so the point is we are very conservative and supposedly Christian in our little area nestled into a penninsula on the western shore of the Chesapeake Bay.

The church I went to for years and years seemed to be very good Christian and community minded church but some thing had nagged at me for the past 2+ years before I finally left. ( okay, maybe I was alittle slow in picking up on it).

This church has a "mission" statement..no it's not "To spread the gospel" or "to teach the truth of Jesus" or anything like that, this church ( mega-church it is becoming) has a mission statement of " To Church the un-churched"--what does that even mean?
The do greatChristian behaviours and deeds from free oil change day, chopping wood and dropping it off at older folks and farmhouses in the fall for those without central heat, they have "rainbow land" ( which is a VBS thing) Upward Soccer to teach kids sportsmanship and fair-play while getting exercise, they even run a Chesapeak Food Pantry, a meals on wheels, etc etc..wonderful and worthy charities all--but they don't pass out tracts, do any or little to no teaching about salvation--instead these people who take part are invited to "church".

Church services open with a full band on stage and wide screens behind with imagery and the lyrics. The musicians of the"worship team" are very production oriented and recently released a CD ( which can be bought in the lobby)..it has a mix of christian and secular songs..

There is a "drama team" which almost always is a food for thought kind of mini-play or skit or has a moral--rarely to never again does it stress salvation or sin.
The sermons are formulaic after the usual opening by the suave and well-dressed pastor gives a 5-minute humorous introductory story and joke. 3 part series on being a better parent..a 10 week series on relationships..believe it or not, even a 3 week focus on being financially responsible as a Christian through biblical teachings...this is the kind of Purpose Driven junk the congregation is fed. Most walk out feeling good and like they have learned a life lesson.

I went home and opened up the church's webpage where they have audio archives of past sermons. I actually went through 9 months of topics with quick listens before I actually came to an old service-which happened to be an old easter service-which actually even mentioned SIN, atonement, Christ sacrifice etc etc..this was disturbing to say the least.
God was telling me something because loater that week I also ran across a survey in the USA today which reported that 85% of Americans still consider themselves Christians..however only 40% believe that the Bible was the inerrant word of God...and hold your seat--only 27% believed that Jesus Christ was the only way to heaven...the truth is, that it could be argued that only 27% were truly Christians. I mean, if you believe there are other ways to heaven than the deity of Christ and the acceptance of His sacrifice on the cross..then you don't believe in the same Jesus or Bible that I do !!

The final straw was a conversation with a friend whom I had originally brought/asked to come to this church with me. It had been 3-4 years now and he had joined the "choir" ( they only do Christmas production, Easter etc), had taken one of the financial classes, had even taken the membership classes to join. During our conversation it got steered ( by me) toward Jeus, atonement, sin and redemption--after talking with this deeply involved church member it dawned on me that he had little to no idea what I was talking about!! He had never even made a confession of faith in Jesus Christ......we talked long and hard and I am still working on getting him past the fluff and feel-good teachings of this church and focusing on salvation.

In the meantime, I have since left that church for a small church--maybe 100-150 members each Sunday. The young pastor "unpacks" whole chapters of the Bible as his sermons ( unlike the othe church which would select 2 or 3 isolated verses to use to make a point for their purpose). My new church, the pastor even mentioned the rapture!! The other church ( probably the largest in Calvert County) had never mentioned or used a single prophecy in the bible and I highly doubt if 90% of the congregation even has heard of the rapture--sad.

Anyhow, I've wanted to tell this story for a while and Gma Doolittle I thank you for starting this thread so I could let this story see some light.

[Lynn]

I think the OP was just describing a principle that seems to prevail in so many churches today. It's sad, but true, that some people don't see church as a place to experience corporate 'worship' of a holy God, but rather a place to go and see their friends & be part of a social club. Thankfully, this is not true in every case. We attend two wonderful fellowships of believers in two separate towns. One is a church building filled with believers who are affiliated with ifca organization of churches, and the other is a group of people from assorted backgrounds who just get together in an empty real estate office on Sunday afternoons to study God's Word together (both are churches, actually, because both groups are comprised of believers in Jesus Christ). We are blessed immensely from contact with both. Unfortunately, in past years, we have experienced what the OP describes and it's disheartening. All of us need to be in serious intercessory prayer for folks who are caught up in some of these worldly churches that have lost sight of what church is really supposed to be about. One clue: it isn't supposed to be entertainment.

[Hootmon]

Men should dress like men. Women should dress like women. Neither should be 'provocative'.

Aside from that, it isnt important as long as you are listening.

[FirstCor123]

The problem with "church" in general, speaking of the American church, stems lack of identity. (see my post in the Apologetics forum.)

It really doesn't matter if a church is mega or small, reformed/calvinist or free-will/seeker, CHARismatic or liturgical. If a church will not allow God to be God then that church is a club. It is God through the person of Jesus Christ that builds the church.

[Snoopynstorm]

Thank You Jesus...thank You.

God has taken the blinds off of my eyes starting a few days ago after I started to continue to read again(I stopped for a few days) a missionary book from Gospel For Asia.

Sister, before I go any further,here .

:sighs Anyways, the falling away has begun. There's Pastors who care more about money than peoples' souls. They preach a watered down gospel. And, we know God doesn't take too kindly to false gospels... They say "God wants you to be rich!" Jesus wants humility. They own a really expensive car and live in a jumbo sized house. Not exactly what Jesus wanted, is it? Ray Stevens' puts in nicely in his song "Would Jesus Wear a Rolex".

You can see the Spirit at work in the brothern overseas. They preach to the Buddists,Muslims and Hindus. Rightly so, for they need the gospel. But what about the evolutionists,Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses in America? When was the last time the Church in America preached the gospel to those in the pews and told them to go out and spread the good news? Sadly, there's people who say they're Christians yet say there's more than one way to Heaven. :sighs How are the lost in America getting the gospel, where are the missionaries? Take away the big homes and shiny cars and all of that money and what are we left with? People lost in their sins. There's churches that even except homosexuality now...

Thank you for bringing up about the falling away. It surely has begun. But, you know what that means, right? That's a sign we're nearing closer to going home!

[gma dolittle]

But what about respecting their position - they are the leaders and coming to church dressed in Burmuda Shorts and a Hula Shirt is not respectful of their position. My pastor doesn't dress to the 9s but you'd never catch him being disrepectful to his position or to God's house.

Amen. that is what I trying to say! We should be respectful of God's housee.

[gma dolittle]

All that you are saying is true in many churches and it seems to be spreading. We were warned this would happen. But the good news is that it's not happening everywhere. There are still churches that preach the gospel and warn people ofhell. There are churches where the Pastor and the leadership are still concerned about reaching the lost and telling them about what Jesus did for them. I think we need to be praying for the lost and sharing the gospel with them every chance we get . I think we need to pray for those who are sitting in these churches where their ears are being tickled. I'm sure you are praying and witnessing because you are so very concerned. It sounds to me like you have a heart for the lost and that is wonderful. I pray the Lord would convict all of us who need it about praying for and reaching the lost.

Yes, I am very concerned. I am concerned about the ones who left their faith, and the sinners who don't hear the word preached as Paul would have done.

[gma dolittle]

Thank You Jesus...thank You.

God has taken the blinds off of my eyes starting a few days ago after I started to continue to read again(I stopped for a few days) a missionary book from Gospel For Asia.

Sister, before I go any further,here .

:sighs Anyways, the falling away has begun. There's Pastors who care more about money than peoples' souls. They preach a watered down gospel. And, we know God doesn't take too kindly to false gospels... They say "God wants you to be rich!" Jesus wants humility. They own a really expensive car and live in a jumbo sized house. Not exactly what Jesus wanted, is it? Ray Stevens' puts in nicely in his song "Would Jesus Wear a Rolex".

You can see the Spirit at work in the brothern overseas. They preach to the Buddists,Muslims and Hindus. Rightly so, for they need the gospel. But what about the evolutionists,Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses in America? When was the last time the Church in America preached the gospel to those in the pews and told them to go out and spread the good news? Sadly, there's people who say they're Christians yet say there's more than one way to Heaven. :sighs How are the lost in America getting the gospel, where are the missionaries? Take away the big homes and shiny cars and all of that money and what are we left with? People lost in their sins. There's churches that even except homosexuality now...

Thank you for bringing up about the falling away. It surely has begun. But, you know what that means, right? That's a sign we're nearing closer to going home!

Thank you so much for the hug!

[$teve]

That is not what I meant. We were very poor and our clothes were usually home made. Men wearing jeans to church is different than women wearing jeans. Wearing a dress to the house of God doesn't necessarily mean expensive... a lot of my dresses are gotten from yard sales, or thrift stores. I do not have the money to spend at JC Pennies, etc. However, I do believe that a minister should wear dress clothes. He usually is paid and he is the leader of the church and should set an example to his flock. When I said "the best", I did not meant money wise, but the best you have. No one should be excluded from church, yet the house of God should be respected as such.

Fair call, thanks for clarifying. I'm not concerned if pastors where jeans and shirt myself, as long as they look neat and clean. I've seen a couple of women ministers (which is probably another issue in and of itself to have women in positions of authority in the church) who can wear inappropriate attire. And I agree with you and other posters that the state of many churches generally, in the western world at least, is dire.

[Eleora]

Church has unfortunately become a business in some cases. Pastors live and preach prosperity, and I have to wonder if that is to assuage their consciences for their lifestyle. In addition, when church becomes about prosperity that entails numbers. The more "feel good" entertainment happy clappy stuff on Sunday, the more people. The reverse side of this is that sin is no longer preached for fear of offending and running off the paying public.

[jackson64]

Church has unfortunately become a business in some cases. Pastors live and preach prosperity, and I have to wonder if that is to assuage their consciences for their lifestyle. In addition, when church becomes about prosperity that entails numbers. The more "feel good" entertainment happy clappy stuff on Sunday, the more people. The reverse side of this is that sin is no longer preached for fear of offending and running off the paying public.

this is exactly what I was trying to say in my drawn-out and rambling post. When I would leave the church on Sunday noonish I would be happy I saw my friends but I would still feel spiritually hungry.